Forest Expansion 2.9.9b

[Lifee_72]

My question is maybe noobie,but can you respawn after you die ?

 

[Dragonofcat]

My question is maybe noobie,but can you respawn after you die ?

Not anymore...

 

[Frank]

nice map
5/5

 

[Meerkatking]

Thanks

Im glad that people like this game, me, Nikkone, Dragonofcat, and mrpeepeeman hav all put alot of work and effort into this game, especially the latter 3, i, unfortunatly, hav not been on warcraft 3 for months, even more, hopefully however i can get back into the loop and help make this great game even better.

 

[kuchee1]

screenshots

 

[MR.Tricky]

well i played this a few times sometimes i lose sometimes i win
1st of all. Worgen is too imba.
2nd.when Players die sometimes their buildings disappear and sometimes they don't.
3rd.when players die they die and well do nothing. Kinda feel sorry for em. and they won't wait so the next game would have less no dl players
4th.there are few bases that can be based that if you base on them the ancient can visit each because there is a few of bases that are suitable for basing. and most of them have few trees so we are forced to harvest outside the base which is risky.
But still this map is one of the maps i recently play so good job and good luck with it.

 

[Nikkone]

well i played this a few times sometimes i lose sometimes i win
1st of all. Worgen is too imba.
2nd.when Players die sometimes their buildings disappear and sometimes they don't.
3rd.when players die they die and well do nothing. Kinda feel sorry for em. and they won't wait so the next game would have less no dl players
4th.there are few bases that can be based that if you base on them the ancient can visit each because there is a few of bases that are suitable for basing. and most of them have few trees so we are forced to harvest outside the base which is risky.
But still this map is one of the maps i recently play so good job and good luck with it.

1. I plan to heavily nerf worgen in the upcoming version. HEAVILY.
2. This is only for Razormane, and it's fixed in the upcoming version.
3. I might implament something for dead players to do someday, but right now I have no plans for it. There has to be a consequence from dieing, but we'll see.
4. What. My only response is lumber can be harvested inside designated bases, and gold piles are next to designated bases, so it can be harvest via support with blink/zeppelins.

 

[Tanasren]

i read what u wrote "the reason for this change" and i feel interested because i stopped playing this map after 10 times because Ancient was boring as hell

i'll check again, because this was the main default (major default)

 

[Alek]

looks like a nice map! shall try it later.

 

[Gen Bloodhorn]

so this is like tree tag?

 

[MR.Tricky]

Ancient has a high probability of winning because he can see the map....
and maybe his first kill would be his minion so that he wont be lonely or every 1-5 minute the map flashes and he sees everything
Edit:Ancient of lightning, 1st skill , mapwide lightning, it is unfair because he can stay at his base and camp while using lightning on expanders and their workers giving him money and the ability to kill the players with out putting much effort.

 

[TheDownloader]

hmmmmmmm i suggest u to use BBCODES

and add some screenshots dude

 

[Nikkone]

Ancient has a high probability of winning because he can see the map....
and maybe his first kill would be his minion so that he wont be lonely or every 1-5 minute the map flashes and he sees everything
Edit:Ancient of lightning, 1st skill , mapwide lightning, it is unfair because he can stay at his base and camp while using lightning on expanders and their workers giving him money and the ability to kill the players with out putting much effort.

Ancient's vision is staying. There are 6 gold piles and multiple bases/hiding spots. The map is just too big for the ancient to not have vision.

I am going to be heavily increasing the cooldown on Zalxon's lightning strike. It will only be used once every 1-2 minutes. The concept is still good, but it is a bit overpowered in it's current state.

hmmmmmmm i suggest u to use BBCODES

and add some screenshots dude

I'll add screenshots soon.

 

[Spank_my_kodo]

Its a neat map, but the Ancient having vision of the whole map is just a big negative in my point of view. For ELEVEN players, there isn't enough hiding spots considering how fast the ancient moves. Adding a crystal ball that reveals a certain spot on the map sounds like a better idea in my opinion. I would rate this a 5/5 but I just don't find full map vision for the Ancient a very fair point for the expanders. However, good job on the variety of races for Ancients and Expanders.

 

[maddeem]

Just give it view of the gold

 

[maniawar3]

hello, i found a bug playing this map whit my friends. the "ancient" hero have vision of all the map so is imposible escape of him or have a nice base for protection

 

[Railto]

the ancients shouldnt have vision of the map instead it could be pings or a reveal skill or item. and the human worker blink can be used to go to the area where you choose ur worker or ancient and build there to be untouchable >

 

[Tanasren]

yes good idea !! the ancients should have regular pings of the main unit player because when all baser are dead or if u play in pub without "good" players, u cant play support like kobold, ur doomed to see ur buildings getting killed

 

[Nikkone]

Due to popular demand, I've removed ancient vision in this update. I feel this update will have a positive effect on the gameplay and quality of life for both the Ancient and especially the Expanders. Let me know your feedback.

 

[FLACC]

this is an great game indeed i sure did enjoy yar game although i played it 1 vs Ai

 

[MR.Tricky]

worgen has too many bugs, it gets gold when it harvests wood, and when it harvests gold it can harvest very fast by pressing stop while attacking, this way it can harvest gold very very fast, if you cannot fix it, might as well remove it.

 

[SeedinAethyr]

Hello Nikkone, I'm a large fan of your map, Forest Expansion. We had played a game of it once before, although I'm not certain if you remember me. I did post a review, or rather a summary, on forestexpansion.proboards, the site created by Bobman321. (He, Meerkatking, and DaFlyinhamster were planning on taking out the Ancient Vision, re-terraining the area, and making some other changes such as nerfing Worgen. However, since the team died, my many contributions to that site were worthless. This is why I'm bringing them here.) I'm sooo glad this game still has life in it, because it was my favorite game for quite awhile. I had hosted it an extensive amount of time, and as such acquired an extensive knowledge of the game. I'll first say all the bugs I've found. Most have been found by me. I play 2.6d, as I feel that is the best version of the map. As so, I had listed bugs from that version. Seeing your changelog, I have removed the fixed bugs. I have re-playtested some bugs and they still work. Here they are.
Abusable Bugs:
Worgen Gold Glitch: The Worgen can stop-click the gold mound to get more gold.
Worgen Gold Glitch with Haste Gem: It works the same way as the stop-clicking, as the Haste Gem serves as a pause in an action. However, players can spam the Haste Gem, giving them fantastic amounts of gold.
Mystic Lava Rock Abuse: The Magmide has an item in its shop called a Mystic Lava Rock, and this works as an Inferno Stone. In other words, when used on trees, it can destroy them. This allows players to tree-base in spots, namely the top right corner.
Teleport Abuse: The Aethyr Warp and Kobold both have map wide teleports; this can be used to reach the top right corner where Expanders and Ancients are chosen. This is unreachable to the Ancient. Although it has no real resources, it serves as a place to place costly research centers and food structures. A way to stop this bug may be to create a region around the whole area, and making it so anything there teleports back to the middle after 75 seconds.
Expander Camp: The supporter Expanders are able to camp middle behind the Recipe Shop, because there is a 1x1 space between it and the edge. This allows them to steal items, use the regeneration of the Awards, and harass the Ancient.
Text Error: The Lava Shop's description is slightly wrong.
Game-Ruining Glitches and Other Minor Bugs:
Furbolg Rolling Glitch: If a Furbolg does an upgrade to its health at level two or higher (second health upgrade) before rolling, when it does roll, the Furbolg will instantly die.
Tome Error: If a Expander picks up any tome of the Ancient's the game will crash.
Gorog Spell: The Gorog damage spell does not work. Edit: It does work, but has insanely small AoE.
Steam Wagon Load: The load ability on the Steam Wagon does not work.
Unrandomable Kobold: The Kobold is not randomable. (Unconfirmed)
Goblin Engineer Ogre Rider Classification: These units are considered organic, yet have no health regeneration because they were probably based off of the Goblin Battle Mech Alpha/Beta. Either make these units merchanical so they can be repaired, or give them health regeneration.
Kobold Warriors: They have Iron forged Swords as their weapon upgrade.
Awards Regeneration: It works on Expanders and their units, not only the Ancient.
Ancient Of Protection: They have no regeneration, and cannot be repaired.
Now, my suggestions.
First, I thought the Orb of God was a fair trade-off. I want it back. Next, make the Ogre and Centaur towers more powerful. They suck. Increase the gold cost for the War Tower. For the Kraken, increase his ultimate tower's damage. Increase his regular towers' attack rates. Give the Ancient more early game ability, as bases are very effective against him early on. Slightly nerf the Righteous Armor. Move that new gold mound, as it's near impossible to wall. Tune down Goblin, Aethyr Warp, and Whisp lumber rates down. Give Ancient more things to use mana for. Nukes are useless for the high-hp builders since they can get around two thousand health, heals are more useful but still can't do much for a seven thousand health juggernaut. Buff armies in general; they give too much gold and are killable waay too fast thanks to Arcanum of Hatred. The only good armies are the Aethyr Warp's Wyrms and the Archers of the Ghoul. The Magmide's hero is also decent. Everything else sucks. Especially the heroes. They give waay too much gold and normally don't benefit from upgrades to health and damage. Give a health upgrade to Magmide Armies. Make Furbolg workers 1x1, as well as putting a cost on them. Heavily reduce the cost of the Mortar Teams' upgrades. No one buys them, and even if they did, a Flak Cannon would outclass them any day. Reduce the bounty of the Razormane Towers. Make Zalxon's ultimate more powerful. It kills one building. Yeah, you could kill a 90 gold building or an ultimate tower. So? One building doesn't make too much of a difference. Postpone the game's ending a bit after the Ancient dies. It's near impossible to read the death text for the Ancient. Next, buff Wispari's damage aura or get rid of it. Wispari currently sucks. Increase the Magmide, Ghoul, and Centaur's lumbering slightly. Buff the Goblins armies heavily because they cost so much gold. You should also increase the damage of the Zepplin Tower and remove the transport Zepplins. They're just gay since it's possible to camp in unreachable spots. Change the hotkey for building Frigade Zepplins (A) since the Zepplin Tower already has an attack. Give health upgrades to the Goblin's units. Implement a "Minion Shop" where the Ancient could summon minions for a large amount of gold. (It's boring only controlling the Ancient and his current minions, the Ancients of Protection.)
Okay, I think I've said a bit too much. Contact me if you want to know more. Remember, some of my information may be wrong, as I haven't played ForExp in awhile and have mostly played 2.6d because it didn't have the awful Ancientvision.
I'm a big fan of this game, but it isn't perfect. I'm going to give it a
4/5

 

[Nikkone]

Hello Nikkone, I'm a large fan of your map, Forest Expansion. We had played a game of it once before, although I'm not certain if you remember me. I did post a review, or rather a summary, on forestexpansion.proboards, the site created by Bobman321. (He, Meerkatking, and DaFlyinhamster were planning on taking out the Ancient Vision, re-terraining the area, and making some other changes such as nerfing Worgen. However, since the team died, my many contributions to that site were worthless. This is why I'm bringing them here.) I'm sooo glad this game still has life in it, because it was my favorite game for quite awhile. I had hosted it an extensive amount of time, and as such acquired an extensive knowledge of the game. I'll first say all the bugs I've found. Most have been found by me. I play 2.6d, as I feel that is the best version of the map. As so, I had listed bugs from that version. Seeing your changelog, I have removed the fixed bugs. I have re-playtested some bugs and they still work. Here they are.
Abusable Bugs:
Worgen Gold Glitch: The Worgen can stop-click the gold mound to get more gold.
Worgen Gold Glitch with Haste Gem: It works the same way as the stop-clicking, as the Haste Gem serves as a pause in an action. However, players can spam the Haste Gem, giving them fantastic amounts of gold.
Mystic Lava Rock Abuse: The Magmide has an item in its shop called a Mystic Lava Rock, and this works as an Inferno Stone. In other words, when used on trees, it can destroy them. This allows players to tree-base in spots, namely the top right corner.
Teleport Abuse: The Aethyr Warp and Kobold both have map wide teleports; this can be used to reach the top right corner where Expanders and Ancients are chosen. This is unreachable to the Ancient. Although it has no real resources, it serves as a place to place costly research centers and food structures. A way to stop this bug may be to create a region around the whole area, and making it so anything there teleports back to the middle after 75 seconds.
Expander Camp: The supporter Expanders are able to camp middle behind the Recipe Shop, because there is a 1x1 space between it and the edge. This allows them to steal items, use the regeneration of the Awards, and harass the Ancient.
Text Error: The Lava Shop's description is slightly wrong.
Game-Ruining Glitches and Other Minor Bugs:
Furbolg Rolling Glitch: If a Furbolg does an upgrade to its health at level two or higher (second health upgrade) before rolling, when it does roll, the Furbolg will instantly die.

...

I appreciate the feedback. I'm going to discuss these thoughts with DofC and someone else who's helping me atm. Some of what you mentioned is already fixed, and others I have an immediate fix for in the upcoming update. You can see me in the channel F12 if you want to discuss it with me.

 

[MR.Tricky]

also the builders seem to abuse the lion shield that they can buy. I have played several times and the worgen buys alot of lion shields eventually getting above +100 armor making them seemingly invincible and it is hard to kill because they are invisible, they can hide on holes and they regenerate fast. You should lessen the health and damage of the worgen, they are too OP, u can't kill them, when a lot of players use worgen, they could kill you if they attack at the same time. The worgen expander is not a hard builder, its the easiest, you just get gold, OP ur char then own the hunter.

 

[Doomfan64]

I played the last version of your map. Despite a lack of players (1v1), it was pretty fun. Although personally, I played the worgen and I think it needs work besides the glitch fixing (Although don't get me wrong, that definitly comes first). It seems to me that, because there is only one worgen, you constantly have to wait around getting gold, lumber, and upgrades all by yourself. At least one extra worker of some kind would be good.


Also AI for the survivors would be nice.

 

[Dragonofcat]

I played the last version of your map. Despite a lack of players (1v1), it was pretty fun. Although personally, I played the worgen and I think it needs work besides the glitch fixing (Although don't get me wrong, that definitly comes first). It seems to me that, because there is only one worgen, you constantly have to wait around getting gold, lumber, and upgrades all by yourself. At least one extra worker of some kind would be good.


Also AI for the survivors would be nice.

I recommend getting more people to play with first of all And on the worgens single unit playstyle, try trading with high lumber expanders for the gold they want since you can harvest it so well.

Expander AI I'm not sure if we will do, but it would come after fixing ancient AI

also the builders seem to abuse the lion shield that they can buy. I have played several times and the worgen buys alot of lion shields eventually getting above +100 armor making them seemingly invincible and it is hard to kill because they are invisible, they can hide on holes and they regenerate fast. You should lessen the health and damage of the worgen, they are too OP, u can't kill them, when a lot of players use worgen, they could kill you if they attack at the same time. The worgen expander is not a hard builder, its the easiest, you just get gold, OP ur char then own the hunter.

Okay, we'll look into lion shield stack, however, worgen health and damage are fine right now.

About the tons of people playing worgen, I believe were currently playing with limiting the number of people playing each expander to two. And yes the players should kill you if they all farm up and then work together, that is the point

 

[Tanasren]

yes i thought worgen would be hard, like satyr in Island def but he is not, and he is a bit boring too

yep one worgen per game max would be good
And yes worgen stack shields ^^ (i did it too ^_^' btw the item which causes 100 dmg each second to nearby unit for the ancient is very tough for worgens)

 

[Dragonofcat]

yes i thought worgen would be hard, like satyr in Island def but he is not, and he is a bit boring too

yep one worgen per game max would be good
And yes worgen stack shields ^^ (i did it too ^_^' btw the item which causes 100 dmg each second to nearby unit for the ancient is very tough for worgens)

Still looking into shield stacks, Nikk thinks it's okay though, and yes the Arcanum of Hatred does hurt worgens, we believe things should have counters and that is a great one against Worgens and army swarms.

 

[Doomfan64]

I'm not sure exactly which bugs are happening with the ancient but it just seems kinda stupid. It just waits around various random areas and it takes a long time for it to finally stumble upon someone's base. So, after you fix those bugs, it would be good if you fix that after.

 

[Nikkone]

I'm not sure exactly which bugs are happening with the ancient but it just seems kinda stupid. It just waits around various random areas and it takes a long time for it to finally stumble upon someone's base. So, after you fix those bugs, it would be good if you fix that after.

Thank you for your feed back. I'm keeping this as an easy mode for the AI, and I will give the option to enable hard mode to just have the AI run after you as if he always knows where you are. I think that should keep a good pace for playing against the AI.

 

[Doomfan64]

That's a good idea, and it also gave me an idea for a hard-mode with a player-controlled Ancient, which would be like how it was before the recent update that took away the Ancient's vision of the map.

 

[Dragonofcat]

That's a good idea, and it also gave me an idea for a hard-mode with a player-controlled Ancient, which would be like how it was before the recent update that took away the Ancient's vision of the map.

So you're saying you want us to add modes such as -fow to remove fog of war for ancient?

 

[Doomfan64]

Yeah. Something that makes the computer go to the nearest Expander base and attack it would be nice too. I made a replay of it and the ancient walked to the same few points over and over again, most infuriatingly when he kept going right next to my base but never attacking it.



Also, something I thought up, if it turns out you can't do Expander AI, then some kind of single-player version where you can choose to be 10 races at once. This wouldn't be exactly like playing 10v1 obviously but it's the best that you would get without AI.


Finally, I would say that the hero units that each race gets like the steam tank, abomination, Flying Dutchman, etc. are underwhelming. They only have 1 power. And even in great numbers, they can't even kill a level 1 ancient! While it's true that they acted awesome as firing support when behind my towers, why were they said to be meant for ancient hunting in the tooltip?

 

[Dragonofcat]

Yeah. Something that makes the computer go to the nearest Expander base and attack it would be nice too. I made a replay of it and the ancient walked to the same few points over and over again, most infuriatingly when he kept going right next to my base but never attacking it.



Also, something I thought up, if it turns out you can't do Expander AI, then some kind of single-player version where you can choose to be 10 races at once. This wouldn't be exactly like playing 10v1 obviously but it's the best that you would get without AI.


Finally, I would say that the hero units that each race gets like the steam tank, abomination, Flying Dutchman, etc. are underwhelming. They only have 1 power. And even in great numbers, they can't even kill a level 1 ancient! While it's true that they acted awesome as firing support when behind my towers, why were they said to be meant for ancient hunting in the tooltip?

The current AI randomly walks around, it's pretty bad and I don't recommend it. We're working on it, slowly.

I might work on a simple expander AI, but it wont really be much.

The heroes are useful when combined with armies or blinked behind the ancient assaulting a base to stop him from leaving.

 

[Doomfan64]

If it turns out you can only do AI for a few races (Because some things might turn out too hard to code or something), could you label which races are AI-Compatable?

 

[Dragonofcat]

If it turns out you can only do AI for a few races (Because some things might turn out too hard to code or something), could you label which races are AI-Compatable?

I'm not sure why this would help since the AI randomly picks what its going to play?

 

[SeedinAethyr]

My personal opinion of heroes is this: They suck.
They give awfully high gold bounties (46-50) and many don't benefit from upgrades armies do. (Abomination, Flying Dutchman, Steam Tank) Mid to late game (which is when players normally get heroes) is when the Ancient can barely be hurt by anything except a base or a very powerful and well supported army. Heroes cannot hurt the Ancient in this phase and are killed quite easily. Heroes might be slightly tougher than a wall (in some cases not), but you must note that they (normally) cost much more than a wall, give a much higher bounty than walls (and the ultimate walls give no bounty at all!), take much longer to build than a wall, and most importantly, cost food. Players need all the food they can get for extra harvesting power and or towers.
On an aesthetic note, why can't heroes automatically have the Blink ability instead of having to choose it?

 

[Doomfan64]

I'm not sure why this would help since the AI randomly picks what its going to play?

Well, if it turns out they couldn't do AI for every race, I would think that you would stop the AI from being able to pick the races they couldn't do. The main purpose of this would be so that the players can help the AIs better by playing a race they couldn't.

I'll be editing this post soon with criticism for the Forgotten Ones. I haven't checked them out yet at all.

 

[Nikkone]

My personal opinion of heroes is this: They suck.
They give awfully high gold bounties (46-50) and many don't benefit from upgrades armies do. (Abomination, Flying Dutchman, Steam Tank) Mid to late game (which is when players normally get heroes) is when the Ancient can barely be hurt by anything except a base or a very powerful and well supported army. Heroes cannot hurt the Ancient in this phase and are killed quite easily. Heroes might be slightly tougher than a wall (in some cases not), but you must note that they (normally) cost much more than a wall, give a much higher bounty than walls (and the ultimate walls give no bounty at all!), take much longer to build than a wall, and most importantly, cost food. Players need all the food they can get for extra harvesting power and or towers.
On an aesthetic note, why can't heroes automatically have the Blink ability instead of having to choose it?

Heroes are very risky. They are sitting on that fence of "If I buff them slightly, they will be horribly overpowered, but are currently worthless". I think heroes are fine if you upgrade them with items and keep them in strong numbers. Hopefully in the next update heroes will be seeing some variety between which spells they want to level (more than just blink!).

Well, if it turns out they couldn't do AI for every race, I would think that you would stop the AI from being able to pick the races they couldn't do. The main purpose of this would be so that the players can help the AIs better by playing a race they couldn't.

I'll be editing this post soon with criticism for the Forgotten Ones. I haven't checked them out yet at all.

AI for races is somewhat difficult for any race in general, I might put a basic AI for races such as furbolg or human sometime by 2.9.1.

Anyway, ancient AI is bugged this version, we should be seeing a stronger one by 2.9.1 as well.

 

[Doomfan64]

Okay, since my post was already responded to, I'll tell some criticism of the Forgotten Ones here. The Bloodreaper harvests slower than the normal worker, what's up with that? To make things worse, there's not much they can build. You'll just spend time waiting around. We already have worgens to fufill the purpose that Forgotten Ones seem to fufill. Their buildings are also way too weak. And now that your entire base doesn't die when your worker does: That seems like it could be good for defensive stuff, because the kind of scenario where you have walls and towers to defend someone else that just go away when 1 unit dies is bull. However for units I don't think it's good. Not only does it allow dead players to help allies from beyond the grave, but it could turn playing Ancient into an endless game of cat and mouse looking for that one unit.

Another thing: I was building up my base when suddenly, the replacement for Eflow stormed up and destroyed it from a hallway slightly wider than my worker. How does it fit through there? Not only does it break the immersion that you're just a bunch of little guys trying to fight a giant, but it ends up being annoying as hell since you don't have as much room to place towers. My solution to this would be to make it so that they can walk through trees, but this breaks them (They grow back after a short while) and also slows you. It makes an audible sound as well to act as an early warning.

 

[Doomfan64]

I know this is double posting, but would it be possible for you to code some kind of built-in resource trader? Since it seems like giving other players resources is a big part of this game (With races like the Worgen and all) the game would be pretty much unplayable if neither you or the AI could trade.

 

[AnonymousPro]

I think it would be good if you screenshot the terrains. Thanks.

 

[I_am_Death]

I need screenshot :|

 

[Sapi]

another amazing map
can you add some gameplay screenshot?

 

[Bloody Wolf]

i had some trouble with this new version because it wont let me select the race i whant to! its allways random

 

[Nikkone]

i had some trouble with this new version because it wont let me select the race i whant to! its allways random

Not so, the first 20 seconds are used for banning ancients/expanders. After 20 seconds, the races will appear in the selection. You also can't random before 20 seconds either.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Not so, the first 20 seconds are used for banning ancients/expanders. After 20 seconds, the races will appear in the selection. You also can't random before 20 seconds either.

well maybe it bugged for some reason

 

[MR.Tricky]

It's a bit hard to play as an ancient when most of the expanders are using support characters that don't build much(forgotten one). Maybe put a limit on them.

 

[Nikkone]

It's a bit hard to play as an ancient when most of the expanders are using support characters that don't build much(forgotten one). Maybe put a limit on them.

The current issue with that is some races simply leave no feed whatsoever. I'm thinking about making gold harder to obtain in the early game so that they're forced to leave walls for the ancient. I'm also thinking about taking away the free supply that some races get (Like Forgotten One, Furbolg, Kobold, etc.) by giving them supply buildings (Like Ogre's fire pit).

 

[matisko666]

I hate Vampirism Fire and all related maps to it, call it wrong or whatever, but there's just too much of it already it is going on my nerves... but at least you've got some fresh ideas about races, diversity in types of classes etc.