Enkaros Way But Health And Mana Swap

[Kerael]

Is the idea to make all non-spellcaster units have 1hp? I don't really get it.

 

[eubz]

Edits too few

 

[Oraien]

Is the idea to make all non-spellcaster units have 1hp? I don't really get it.

Well the point is to swap all mana and health. Since all non-spellcasters have no mana, the only solution that would make the game playable is to make them have 1 health.

Edits too few

Of course I could go ahead and make hundreds and hundreds of changes, but that would no longer be Altered melee but rather a custom made game mode where nothing is melee and everything is changed. That isn't the point of Warcraft 3 But series however, the point is to make a melee game with a small change that will to some extent alter the melee gameplay enough so that it doesn't feel like normal melee but is still playable as a melee rather than AoS, TD, RPG, etc.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Of course I could go ahead and make hundreds and hundreds of changes, but that would no longer be Altered melee but rather a custom made game mode where nothing is melee and everything is changed.

I think melee refers to the gameplay style, where you build bases, have tech trees, train units and kill each others bases. So altered melee can be anything within my description, as long as it differs from vanilla. It can be with 10000 changes (UB for example), or some simple changes. An altered melee map with very simple changes isn't all that interesting to be honest.

That isn't the point of Warcraft 3

Can't say I agree with this. Haven't you seen all the custom game modes around? Warcraft is PERFECT for custom games.

 

[Kerael]

Well let me clarify some things. I am decently familiar with the 'Dota 2 But <...>' scene so I think I can bring something to the discussion.

First of all, it is horribly organized in the Dota 2 custom maps section, littering the map browser. I urge you most importantly not to copy that, as it only leads to disorder in maintaining and updating the maps. Not mentioning that these maps will eventually be scattered all over the section, and without each other, these modifications are more like quirks, they are not full.

One has to be inspired by Dota very cautiously. Since it is a step down from the original game (Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3), some of it's elements better not be brought back. The standards are also awfully low there.

And I'm not talking about the idea itself, just the implementation and organization practices.
For example, 1-hour Stormbolt or a health/mana swap are not meaningful changes in Warcraft. In Dota it mixes up the whole balance/game flow since it only consists of heroes with health and mana.

Since all non-spellcasters have no mana, the only solution that would make the game playable is to make them have 1 health.

Honestly I don't think that the majority of units having 1hp is exactly playable.

As a good reference, on the other hand, you can look up Starcraft 2's "Imba League" map (youtube: Husky). In short, it allows to select all the desired modifications at the start of the game (can be done with dialog/UI/dummy abilities). See? Already much better than what 'Dota 2 Buts' offer and it existed years before.
To my ignorance, I haven't heard of much similar maps done in Warcraft, so i'm really looking forward to what you will make of this idea!

As a heads-up I can give you a couple of ideas just for the sake of example:
1. All units and heroes have Pillage
2. All units have Blink; 400/700/1000 range for tier 1/2/3 units
3. All buildings have a ranged attack; ranging from Archer-level (Farm) to Gryphon/Frost Wyrm-level (Castle)
4. All modifications are in one map. <3 Take something classic like Twisted Meadows, or some bigger 8+ player map, whichever you think is best suited to be the template for your gameplay modifications.

It doesn't really matter if you miss a mark, as long as you work diligently towards a goal. If you're still interested in it, that is!
If you have any questions, you can contact me at discord MadSkills#0057 or join the Hive discord server. There are many experienced people who will surely help you with the technical details.
Good luck with the development!

 

[Oraien]

Can't say I agree with this. Haven't you seen all the custom game modes around? Warcraft is PERFECT for custom games.

Just for clarification, the whole subject was "Warcraft 3 But series", not just "Warcraft 3".

Well let me clarify some things. I am decently familiar with the 'Dota 2 But <...>' scene so I think I can bring something to the discussion.

First of all, it is horribly organized in the Dota 2 custom maps section, littering the map browser. I urge you most importantly not to copy that, as it only leads to disorder in maintaining and updating the maps. Not mentioning that these maps will eventually be scattered all over the section, and without each other, these modifications are more like quirks, they are not full.

One has to be inspired by Dota very cautiously. Since it is a step down from the original game (Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3), some of it's elements better not be brought back. The standards are also awfully low there.

And I'm not talking about the idea itself, just the implementation and organization practices.
For example, 1-hour Stormbolt or a health/mana swap are not meaningful changes in Warcraft. In Dota it mixes up the whole balance/game flow since it only consists of heroes with health and mana.

Honestly I don't think that the majority of units having 1hp is exactly playable.

As a good reference, on the other hand, you can look up Starcraft 2's "Imba League" map (youtube: Husky). In short, it allows to select all the desired modifications at the start of the game (can be done with dialog/UI/dummy abilities). See? Already much better than what 'Dota 2 Buts' offer and it existed years before.
To my ignorance, I haven't heard of much similar maps done in Warcraft, so i'm really looking forward to what you will make of this idea!

As a heads-up I can give you a couple of ideas just for the sake of example:
1. All units and heroes have Pillage
2. All units have Blink; 400/700/1000 range for tier 1/2/3 units
3. All buildings have a ranged attack; ranging from Archer-level (Farm) to Gryphon/Frost Wyrm-level (Castle)
4. All modifications are in one map. <3 Take something classic like Twisted Meadows, or some bigger 8+ player map, whichever you think is best suited to be the template for your gameplay modifications.

It doesn't really matter if you miss a mark, as long as you work diligently towards a goal. If you're still interested in it, that is!
If you have any questions, you can contact me at discord MadSkills#0057 or join the Hive discord server. There are many experienced people who will surely help you with the technical details.
Good luck with the development!

Thank you, this is a constructive feedback I can work with rather than "edits too few"...

I can try to do that. I'll find a map and I'll try to implement all of the changes that I have done in the But maps with triggers to choose them one by one.

Thank you ^^

 

[eubz]

If only that is your edit please read this

Altered Melee Altered Melee-style gameplay is similar to the melee map, but is slightly different in comparison with melee as it contains a custom race apart from the usual (human, orc, undead, and nightelf) such as draenei, dragon, and so on.