Earth Zealot Spellpack (v3)

[Moderator]

10:38, 15th Jun 2010
Hanky:
I found some things that have to be improved:
- you had several leaks in your spell mostly location leaks but also some group and rect leaks
- instead of using for every ability level one if-then-else use a formula
- some of the spells are just to simple
- the brown color of your tooltip is hard to read, change that

That's all I found for now. When you have fixed those things message me or one of the other spell moderators.

 

[XenoStalker]

Updated the resource credits, forgot Dentothor's icon.

Feel free to belittle/critique this spellpack.

 

[Foopad]

I see that you're using some icons there. This should probably be avoided to reduce filesize etc.
A quote: "Third Party Material
Spells should avoid using third party material (other than systems). If it is absolutely necessary, then the creators of those resources must be credited in the spell map and the spell description. Pirated or stolen content is not permitted."

 

[Demongrip]

Hm no need to import stuff especially icons you should avoid that.

 

[XenoStalker]

Hm no need to import stuff especially icons you should avoid that.

It was for a clan contest, but I understand that for a resource-specific submission I shouldn't use such imports.

I see that you're using some icons there. This should probably be avoided to reduce filesize etc.
A quote: "Third Party Material
Spells should avoid using third party material (other than systems). If it is absolutely necessary, then the creators of those resources must be credited in the spell map and the spell description. Pirated or stolen content is not permitted."

I didn't mention the resource in the map, but I did in the post. Is that not legal?
The system is only used for one spell - and for the sake of not rewriting the entire aspect of knockback I found it easier to just import Paladon's.

 

[Foopad]

It was for a clan contest, but I understand that for a resource-specific submission I shouldn't use such imports.



I didn't mention the resource in the map, but I did in the post. Is that not legal?
The system is only used for one spell - and for the sake of not rewriting the entire aspect of knockback I found it easier to just import Paladon's.

You should probably know this, you've just agreed that you've read and understood the rules, in which it is stated that you're allowed to use libaries and systems, but I think if it can be avoided you might aswell make your own. Try pressing upload once more and just read over the rules... I've also taken a brief look at your spells... There's some things which need improvement.

My Review

Spell Ideas = 3/5

Coding = 2/5

Effeciency = 2/5

User Interface = 0/5

Documentation = 0/5

You Scored = 1/5
3+2+2+0+0 = 7, 7/5 = 1.4 ( I used the little knowlegde of math I have this time )

My Comments:
- This is the best spells I've seen, though he has clearly put in an effort. There all instant cast spells, yet there is a wait action... Ask Rmx what is the most hated GUI action.

• Wait 0.25 game-time seconds

in Cataclysm, which uses

• Unit - A unit Is attacked

which is not as good either. These are major faults that should be improved somehow, I have no idea how to avoid using a unit is attacked, or even if it can be avoided in this situation. The wait though would require either of the following: Hashtables, Indexing, or otherwise MUI systems or actions.
I think this lacks clearly, you fail to even mention such a thing as documentation, there's no hint of how to import or otherwise use the spells. You don't make it easy to configure, set some variables like damage/range etc. and make it very clear these can be changed. This rating is quite rough and I won't vote yet. I don't think this is necessary but I like it personally. I hope you improve

 

[Aspard]

Review

Rules: I know that's annoying fact, but you should remove most of your imports: icons and skin at one hundred percentes. I see no use for Hero Glow model either. That's not my opinion or task, but that's a rule of the spell section. Also Credits should be included into the map also, at least in trigger editor.

Second is Misc map features. Firstly, the message with "Helpful testing Keys" was removed rather quickly - I didn't even pay attention to it. Then, add a sound set to the hero. Testing map is very good - it has destructiblies, cliffs and water.

About Hero & Skills: All of the spells are AoE damage... don't you feel that's a bit imbalanced? Well... not a bit... Too much?!

Triggering: Knockback spell is rather simple, that's particulary a copy of Paladon's testing spell.

About "Terra Ward":

• Set TerraWard_location = (Position of (Triggering unit))
• Set tempoint = (Position of (Triggering unit))

Why two times the same point into two different variables?

You should avoid using Integer A, cause it can cause bugs rarely.

And the last point about this spell: Can't you make it w/o three different If/Then/Elses, but using calculations with (Level of (Ability being cast))?

Let's move on, next trigger is "Earthshatter":

• Set tempgroup = (Units within 250.00 of tempoint matching ((((Matching unit) is Building) equal to False) etc...

- You should want to add a filter with "Mechanic" and "Magic Immune" units.

Does this thing now work as "set bj_wantDestroyGroup = true"? I didn't know that.

• Custom script: call DestroyGroup ( GetLastCreatedGroup() )

And the Nature's Wrath is a copy of the spell from a "Nova Spellpack", isn't it?

Let's conclude: Two spells aren't done by you; many HW rule violations; coding is okay, decent description; no information on import/customisation/custom text accompaniyng the triggers; some minor minuses... Let's say, this is "Lacking" until you fix most of the mentioned above.

To Foopad,
Let me disagree with you at point of reinventing the wheel at part of making the knockback system. Paladon is the best GUIer I've ever known, so you should treat this system as... just common part of the WC3, implemented by users. Decent and best.

 

[XenoStalker]

You should probably know this, you've just agreed that you've read and understood the rules, in which it is stated that you're allowed to use libaries and systems, but I think if it can be avoided you might aswell make your own. Try pressing upload once more and just read over the rules...

I did read over the rules, but you keep trying to imply that I did something wrong. This spell pack uses 1 system for 1 spell. Everything else is my creation, and I did give credit to the resources used.

Review

Rules: I know that's annoying fact, but you should remove most of your imports: icons and sking at 100%. I see no use for Hero Glow either. That's not my opinion or task, but that's a rule of the spell section. Also Credits should be included in the map also, at least in trigger editor.

Second is Misc map features. Firstly, the message with "Helpful testing Keys" was removed rather quickly - I didn't even pay attention to it. Then, add a sound set to the hero. Testing map is very good - it has destructiblies, cliffs and water.

About Hero & Skills: All of the spells are AoE damage... don't you feel that's a bit imbalanced? Well... not a bit... Much?!

Triggering: Knockback spell is rather simple, that's particulary is a copy of Paladon's testing spell.

About "Terra Ward":

• Set TerraWard_location = (Position of (Triggering unit))
• Set tempoint = (Position of (Triggering unit))

Why two times the same point into two different variables?

You should avoid using Integer A, cause it can cause bugs rarely.

And the last point about this spell: Can't you make it w/o three different If/Then/Elses, but using calculations with (Level of (Ability being cast))?

Let's move on, next trigger is "Earthshatter":

• Set tempgroup = (Units within 250.00 of tempoint matching ((((Matching unit) is Building) equal to False) etc...

- You should want to add a filter with "Mechanic" and "Magic Immune" units.

Does this thing now work as "set bj_wantDestroyGroup = true"? I didn't know that.

• Custom script: call DestroyGroup ( GetLastCreatedGroup() )

And the Nature's Wrath is a copy of the spell from a "Nova Spellpack", isn't it?

Let's conclude: Two spells aren't done by you; many HW rule violations; coding is okay, decent description; no information on import/customisation/custom text accompaniyng the triggers; some minor minuses... Let's say, this is "Lacking" until you fix most of the mentioned above.

To Foopad,
Let me disagree with you at point of reinventing the wheel at part of making the knockback system. Paladon is the best GUIer I've ever known, so you should treat this system as... just common part of the WC3, implemented by users. Decent and best.

Thanks for the advice

I also forgot about the set 'bj_wantDestroyGroup = true' for some reason...

Well, I uploaded this hero concept so it wouldn't sit in my "Custom Maps" folder and get dusty. If the imports are really that big of a deal, then it can be removed.

 

[baassee]

Icons and skins are big deal, models that have to do with the spell don't.

 

[XenoStalker]

Icons and skins are big deal, models that have to do with the spell don't.

Sooo... update it with no skins/icons = okay?

 

[Aspard]

You see, I don't think that imports are a big deal about Heroes, cause they are a totally made things, not just a Lego pieces, which everybody should want to use in their constructor, but it's complete thing! You can check my Hero Contest #2 entry and find out, that many people attacked me with the same problem - I've uploaded my hero to the spell section with imports, but... That's the rules of this community and if we want to stay here and be a part of it, we should do nothing, but accept them. So, please, remove all the unneccesery imports, e.g. icons/skin/hero glow model. ;(

 

[Foopad]

@ Aspard, nice review mine is kind of small compared to yours .
Well this is probably more of a personal opnion than actual rules, if you ever create your own system, you learn something new. If you simply copy paste someone else's system you learn notihng.

@ XenoStalker, I don't think, I ever said you were directly violating the rules except for the icon thing, in which I quoted the rules for you and others to jugde for themselves. I only think it would be a good idea for you to re-read those rules in any case. I sometimes do when uploading something. To the system thing, my opinion is clearly stated above.
May I say: You're lucky! Alot of feedback already

 

[XenoStalker]

Thanks for the feedback.

I updated it with no skin/imported icons so it meets the rule criteria. Also fixed the group leaks.

 

[Aspard]

Such a bit and interesting discussions we have here, he-he.

You see, I'm not sure that's a big deal of making the "Knockback" system yourself, if there is already one, which you can't beat and which is decent. I can uderstand, if there is a square wheel, then you'd like to make it round But if you already have it, why would you prefer still ride on the square-wheeled bycicle?

I hope, you won't do so of course, but that's just an example. You'd better advice him create e.g. Jumping system, I'm pretty sure there is still a way for possible improvements of Paladon's system. Of let him create Creep Respawn System, or AoS Creep movements system, or Sliding system... I mean - that's good, when you study, but what's the reason in studying, if it doesn't bring anything? Any studies should result in... result And this particular Knockback system is one of the small number of things, I'll always vote for importing everywhere!

 

[Foopad]

Yes this sure is a discussion .
Well I've personally learned that if you don't question things you never get onwards. As you mention there may be some way to improve paladon's system, though I doubt it's that big of an improvement, but that's besides the point, if someone were to make a knockback system for themselves they might discover a whole new way of coding, I can think of something very recently happening like this... *Cough* hashtables.
Besides you might learn some other way to improve your coding yourself by creating a system. This is merely a discussion on opinions if you ask me . Nietzsche for one believed, if you're faced with difficulties, you grow to become stronger, he was a living proof of such a case.

 

[Aspard]

Nietzsche

Who's that? And I don't think, that hashtables in any way better than common GUI Indexing. That just a GUI anyway. See ya.

 

[XenoStalker]

Yes this sure is a discussion .
Well I've personally learned that if you don't question things you never get onwards. As you mention there may be some way to improve paladon's system, though I doubt it's that big of an improvement, but that's besides the point, if someone were to make a knockback system for themselves they might discover a whole new way of coding, I can think of something very recently happening like this... *Cough* hashtables.
Besides you might learn some other way to improve your coding yourself by creating a system. This is merely a discussion on opinions if you ask me . Nietzsche for one believed, if you're faced with difficulties, you grow to become stronger, he was a living proof of such a case.

Just to get back on track

Updated again: I added some documentation since I read your review and it was '0/5'.

What exactly is the 'User Interface' in your review?

 

[Foopad]

Just to get back on track

Updated again: I added some documentation since I read your review and it was '0/5'.

What exactly is the 'User Interface' in your review?

I had a hard time defining what I meant in a few words, but more user configuration. You make it easy for the user to configure the spell. I can give you an example from one of my spells.

• -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changeable Variables --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------
• Set LS_Dur[LS_TempInt] = 15.00
• Set LS_Damage[LS_TempInt] = ((Real((Level of (Ability being cast) for (Triggering unit)))) x 50.00)
• Set LS_Offset[LS_TempInt] = 500.00
• Set LS_AoE[LS_TempInt] = 100.00
• Set LS_Degrees[LS_TempInt] = (Random angle)
• Set LS_DegreeLength[LS_TempInt] = 15.00
• -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changeable Variables STOP --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------
• Set LS_Caster[LS_TempInt] = (Triggering unit)
• Set LS_TempLoc2[LS_TempInt] = (Position of (Triggering unit))
• Set LS_TempLoc[LS_TempInt] = ((Position of (Triggering unit)) offset by LS_Offset[LS_TempInt] towards LS_Degrees[LS_TempInt] degrees)

You see the top part is variables that can easily be changed, while the ones after STOP, changes the spell significantly and might cause it to bug, this lets a user know where to play around with the data first. for example if you were to change LS_Dur to 20 the spell would last 5 seconds longer. Instead of using: "Pick every unit in 100 range of..." I use: "Pick every unit in AoE range of...." So whenever AoE is changed the AoE of the spell is changed.
I hope, I made myself clear

 

[Vengeancekael]

Maybe you should add the code to the description and also the ability tooltip.

 

[XenoStalker]

I had a hard time defining what I meant in a few words, but more user configuration. You make it easy for the user to configure the spell. I can give you an example from one of my spells.

• -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changeable Variables --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------
• Set LS_Dur[LS_TempInt] = 15.00
• Set LS_Damage[LS_TempInt] = ((Real((Level of (Ability being cast) for (Triggering unit)))) x 50.00)
• Set LS_Offset[LS_TempInt] = 500.00
• Set LS_AoE[LS_TempInt] = 100.00
• Set LS_Degrees[LS_TempInt] = (Random angle)
• Set LS_DegreeLength[LS_TempInt] = 15.00
• -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changeable Variables STOP --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------
• Set LS_Caster[LS_TempInt] = (Triggering unit)
• Set LS_TempLoc2[LS_TempInt] = (Position of (Triggering unit))
• Set LS_TempLoc[LS_TempInt] = ((Position of (Triggering unit)) offset by LS_Offset[LS_TempInt] towards LS_Degrees[LS_TempInt] degrees)

You see the top part is variables that can easily be changed, while the ones after STOP, changes the spell significantly and might cause it to bug, this lets a user know where to play around with the data first. for example if you were to change LS_Dur to 20 the spell would last 5 seconds longer. Instead of using: "Pick every unit in 100 range of..." I use: "Pick every unit in AoE range of...." So whenever AoE is changed the AoE of the spell is changed.
I hope, I made myself clear

Ah... I understand now.

I don't find that a neccessary thing, but I see how it can be extremely useful for implementation. I will definitely try it out for any future spellpacks/spells I may attempt.

 

[Foopad]

I'd better mention this before D4RK_G4ND4LF comes along. Your Earthshatter ability is going to destroy every destructable, even brigdes etc. stuff that might be useful to the map.

• Destructible - Pick every destructible within 200.00 of tempoint and do (Actions)
  • Loop - Actions
    • Destructible - Kill (Picked destructible)

As he would suggest, I would suggest it as well,m I don't know if this even works though.
Kill trees in range

 

[Ralle]

Testing something out.

 

[XenoStalker]

I'd better mention this before D4RK_G4ND4LF comes along. Your Earthshatter ability is going to destroy every destructable, even brigdes etc. stuff that might be useful to the map.

• Destructible - Pick every destructible within 200.00 of tempoint and do (Actions)
  • Loop - Actions
    • Destructible - Kill (Picked destructible)

As he would suggest, I would suggest it as well,m I don't know if this even works though.
Kill trees in range

I'll download the resource and see how I can fix it. Thx for the link.

It also kills all destructibles in the knockback trigger. I will see what I can do (though the update may come later in the day).