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Dragon's Crossing

Submitted by fostaa
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Description:

A relatively large map for 8 players made specifically for 2v2v2v2 battles.
Wonderful mountains surround the shallow rivers. Players are separated into teams of two. There is a zeppelin at the Goblin Factory that would allow the bravest to challenge the two mighty drakes that guard these lands. A success in killing them may lead to a turnaround...


MAP SPECIFICS:


[​IMG] Players 8
[​IMG] Creep Camps 16 20 20+2
[​IMG] Neutral Buildings 12
[​IMG] Gold Mines 16



CREDITS:



Thanks to the following people for their artworks:




Change Log:



04.12.2018


  • Uploaded



22.12.2018


  • Flamewarden's attack range changed;
  • Ogre Stormlord's attack range changed;
  • Gnoll Crossbowman's attack range changed;
  • Unknown Artifact now provides 8 to all stats instead of 7.
  • Minor ramp glitches fixed;
  • Minor tooltip changes.



07.01.2019


  • Death Shot can't target heroes;
  • Terrain fixes;
  • No Fountains anymore






Keywords:
mountain, fostaa, 2v2v2v2, balanced, melee, landscape
Contents

Dragon's Crossing (Map)

Reviews
deepstrasz
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Like when you post something that it asks you to wait before your next post? The map thread will only be bumped on the first page once in 14 days. About the ramps, well, you don't have to fill them 100%. You can...
  1. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    1. Fixed start locations is a bad idea. Try making them random. Use the triggers in this map: Skeletal Coast v1.3
    2. Avoid using playable units as neutral ones to avoid confusion.
    3. Fountains should not be unprotected and certainly not be placed so close to bases. I'd remove them entirely at this point if there's no proper place for them farther away from mines. I suggest maybe one fountain for all players somewhere in the middle zone or two, each one at the map's edges.
    4. Dead Shot kills heroes too?
    5. Since this is a 8 player map, you should exclusively avoid narrow spaces for not only are they a pain to play on, they create imbalances. The Blademaster can wind walk his way to heroes blocked by units.
    6. You should place unbuildable tiles on the ramps to avoid tower block and hence lame strategies.
    7. Basically what saves this map from Substandard is the custom heroes. I suggest making some custom neutral units as well (apart from the dragons which are basically enhanced versions of their original versions).
    8. I don't know why you changed some hero looks (Far Seer to Thrall, Blademaster to Blackrock Blademaster etc.); probably an aesthetics preference. Maybe, you could add 1-2 custom units per race.
    9. Does Born in the Storm stack with the other aura it is based on (Endurance Aura, I presume)?

    All in all, you should make the terrain more melee like, balanced for 8 players. Right now it has some issues. And neutral buildings placement, fountains especially.
    Read some melee tutorials please (linked below).

    Awaiting Update.



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    ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION
    • A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
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    If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
    Paillan
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    https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/
     
  2. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Thank you for your time reviewing my map :)

    Answers:
    1. I also thought it might not be the best idea but it will remain this way for now.
    2. Can you give me an example of such units?
    3. The fountains' place and the whole idea about this is on purpose.
    4. Now that is something I will most likely change - along with the fixed player positions is something I already know and about to change soon enough.
    5. Every map has some "narrow" spaces so you can write this to pretty much all maps in this forum. Sorry.
    6. Thank you for that hint - I will do something about it.
    7. What do you mean by "Substandard"? And why do you mention the heroes here?
    8. Yea, I changed the skins of some heroes because I personally like them more. Adding an actual custom unit to a race is something completely different from my initial plan but let's say I may think about that - not soon though.
    9. Usually it should stack because it has a different buff attached to the spell and not "Endurance Aura". ||| Update: Yes, it stacks I've double checked it.
     
  3. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Hippogryph.
    It creates heavy gameplay imbalance and frankly it's not fun when your enemy can just run to their base and regenerate their units freely nearby.
    That's not a reason. A good example of a many player map is Emerald Gardens. Other Blizzard maps are indeed similar in design as yours, but truthfully it's a mistake. 4 players will have problems engaging armies on parts of the battlefield. Imagine 8. Sure, it's up to you to widen paths or not.
    I mean, without the custom Tavern heroes, the map would be bad, too little work on it to be considered for approval.
     
  4. fostaa

    fostaa

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    -LoL. They will get over the "scary" Hippogryph. Poor creature being misunderstood.
    -The fountains are there to create another point of defense and if you haven't thought about it - enemies invading your hill can also benefit from it; end of story for this.
    -I knew I should have had made a 500x500 map for 8 players...
    -I thought my terrain was worth it since I've put much effort on this. Custom heroes is what I usually do in my maps so I find this normal.

    I appreciate you spending time here, but if you want, you may not 'grade' it. I surely do not need any approval (especially when it comes to personal preferences and not about fixing real technical problems) as well as for all my maps here. Obviously I can't meet 99.99% of the requirements according to the forum rules. I make maps for myself to play, and I am only uploading them here so others can have fun too.

    Thanks anyway.
     
  5. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Which is also bad especially if you're outnumbered and your base is your only defense for a while.
    I am very fixed on the fountain issue. I've let go of many others, but this is a problem. I've mentioned why and I've even given some solutions to keeping the fountains in the map. It's up to you, else there are other reviewers if you still won't be satisfied.
     
  6. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Updated.

    P.S. I realized that the thing with Death Shot is something I've already had fixed long time ago and I do not know why it wasn't updated here. I have a silly question in regards to that - is there any "cooldown" for uploading maps, even though it says "successful" after you update your bundle? Cuz if that's the case, there's a bug in the website about it; not the first time I notice that btw.
     
  7. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Like when you post something that it asks you to wait before your next post?
    The map thread will only be bumped on the first page once in 14 days.

    1. About the ramps, well, you don't have to fill them 100%. You can keep some grass or buildable tile if you want, just make sure that they can't be blocked with towers or farms.
    2. Is it intended for neutral hostile units to start with 0% mana?
    3. Be careful not to have neutral hostile units too close to paths because players will be forced to engage them. I'm especially referring to the middle shallow water zone where there are many narrow paths.
    4. There might be some problems with random items in marketplaces which is why one would be adequate but it's an interesting game mechanic this way.
    5. However, the dragon items are unique and whoever gets them might have an advantage over the other players since they do not appear again anywhere else. Maybe you should make them drop on hero death.

    Approved.

    (previous comments: Dragon's Crossing)
     
  8. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Unique items from the dragons actually drop when the hero dies. This has been this way since the first time I implemented them.
    Daffa the Mage also mentioned that "items in market places are random" on another map of mine. I do not get it. The purpose of the marketplace is to announce items from the same level of others that drop from monsters around the map. Let's say if you kill the monsters around the large mines, they will drop a level 6 item. Then, the marketplaces all around the map, will announce an item with the same level sooner or later. The marketplaces are 1 per each hill and the map is large enough to not make it easy for one player to benefit from both markets. Of course, if a team/player conquers a hill, it will be enough of a prize to benefit from both markets.

    About the website issue, let me explain briefly:
    If I haven't uploaded a map for a few days and I upload it now then it will be updated and all will be fine. But let's say that I discover a bug 5 minutes after that and decide to upload it again on the same day, the map file itself won't be updated because there is some sort of a cooldown or whatever. I tried that by updating a map twice in 10 mins and when I download and test the latest map, I saw that the last update hasn't been saved like I haven't uploaded the map at all. Of course, if you leave a different text in the post, it will be saved. But apparently not the map file.

    Cheers
     
  9. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    It doesn't quite work that way. Items of the same level sometimes aren't balanced. A Claw of Attack +15=/=Crown of Kings +5. Stuff like that. Plus, some items might be consumables while others permanent (same level). Sure, the cost might be different but imagine the luck on the player near the market that creates two claws of attack+10 and the player near the market that creates two potions of restoration.

    @Ralle?
     
  10. fostaa

    fostaa

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    It works like that. The fact that some items with same level (according to some people) may not have the same efficiency is just a personal preference. It's even pointless to discuss how in some situations some items are better than others, and in other situations it's the opposite. What else would you like to add as a comment? You don't like the colors of the dragons or you think I should add less scary neutral units? Come on, I know you can do better than Daffa...
    I wonder what's the average age of the reviewers here.

    Just leave it and that's it. Whoever doesn't like it shouldn't play it.

    Cheers.
     
  11. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I think you should refrain from publicly feeling smarter than other people. You are exaggerating and it's not the first time.
    We give you arguments. The only preference related thing here is you not wanting to comply. We do not force people to change their so called artworks because we want them to but because we have experience in map making and comparative criticism, thus trying to help people change for the better.

    Again, I don't see a big issue with multiple markets especially when loot from neutral hostile units works pretty much the same way. It's just that in late games Blademasters could potentially become very strong because of items from those marketplaces. So, I don't understand what your problem is. Your map is already approved. What more do you want us to do, approve your maps right after you upload them without any comment?
     
  12. fostaa

    fostaa

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    I never felt pushed by anyone here - more like felt some responsibility to share my point of view. It is just a discussion. Don't blame me for my knowledge and opinion about a few things. The arguments I give do not change the fact I am thankful for your time, attendance and effort.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  13. Ralle

    Ralle

    Owner

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    From what I can tell, it depends on whether you edit and then save the bundle. That should clear the download file cache. Sorry that it works this way.
     
  14. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    please remove the melee tag and keep the altered melee tag

    those categories are uncompatible.
    is to have a clean hive searcher of melee maps for the melee comunity

    see ya