DOTA Reborn!

[Firespark]

I have played allot of DOTA and I have notice a good many flaws in the game design itself so I decided to make a DOTA style map that corrected those flaws.
The only problems is I need to test it now and I cant get people to play the damn thing. So I figured I would upload the map and let you all have a shot at it if you want. Please let me know what you all think.

Map Info
* Map name
DOTA Reborn
* Name of the creator(s)
Firespark
* Current stage of the map (alpha, beta, finished?)
Beta
* Summary of the map gameplay/objectives
Pretty much the same as the original DOTA
* Map features
Custom heroes, Harder to win, More strategy involved, Fix some of what I thought where flaws in the original DOTA
* Miscellaneous Info (credits?)
If you are going to criticize my map please try to make it constructive.

 

[Neiko]

Could you tell us the flaws and what you did to improve them? Just so I know ahead of time?

 

[noctune]

The flaws he is talking about are:

* Not knowing your enemies skills/spells.
* Melee heroes facing ranged heroes.

Actually, none of them are flaws. Knowing what your enemies can do is very important since it defines what items you're gonna buy, what skills you're gonna learn and hoe you'll manage your hero. If any combination of skills could be formed it'd be a total mess. And believe me, a really imbalanced mess.

Aditionally, facing a ranged hero is part of the game. Melee heroes tend to have more health and if you weight it all it's balanced.

Anyway, talking about your map now.

None of the items I bought (in order to create spells) worked. Not even ONE of them. Your triggers (if there are more than 10) are horrible. Terrain took something like 5 minutes to piece together. Your map is just unplayable.

No offense intended, but please try to finish at least 50% of your map before submitting it to the hive, not 1%.

 

[Mini-Me]

Read the rules.

 

[Captain Griffen]

No such thing as DotA style maps...unless you mean horribly crap and imbalanced knowledge-oriented with rediculous emphasis on killing your own units and last hitting normal units so as to buy uber items?

 

[Firespark]

The flaws he is talking about are:

* Not knowing your enemies skills/spells.
* Melee heroes facing ranged heroes.

Actually, none of them are flaws. Knowing what your enemies can do is very important since it defines what items you're gonna buy, what skills you're gonna learn and hoe you'll manage your hero. If any combination of skills could be formed it'd be a total mess. And believe me, a really imbalanced mess.

Aditionally, facing a ranged hero is part of the game. Melee heroes tend to have more health and if you weight it all it's balanced.

Anyway, talking about your map now.

None of the items I bought (in order to create spells) worked. Not even ONE of them. Your triggers (if there are more than 10) are horrible. Terrain took something like 5 minutes to piece together. Your map is just unplayable.

No offense intended, but please try to finish at least 50% of your map before submitting it to the hive, not 1%.

I have tested it and all of the triggers work fine. I don't know why they do not work for you. I can buy any item and receive the corresponding spell flawlessly. Also that terrain took me about 2 hours or so to create. The map is 100% finished.

 

[Firespark]

Could you tell us the flaws and what you did to improve them? Just so I know ahead of time?

Flaw
To start with you always know what you are up against if you have played the map a good bit. For example if some one picks Sven you know what powers he has and exactly how to stop him. You could pick a Hero that goes against him well or pick items that go against his powers making it easy to stomp him.

Fix
So to fix this I gave players the ability to customize their hero, by buying the spells they want to have. Also I made them all look the same. This way you never know what your going to be facing when you attack your opponent.

---------------------
Flaw
Ranged Vs Melee this creates a problem because if a team is heavy with ranged and the other in melee, then ranged have the upper hand in the entire beginning of the game. If they do not manage to wound their enemy's bad enough in the beginning then melee crush them late game.

Fix
To fix this I made all heroes ranged. This balances the game forcing people to create new strategy's in order to win.

---------------------
Flaw
Each lane is connected and forces you to fight another player in order to push the lane and destroy towers. If you have to run back to base or get killed a few times you can drop really far behind in levels and be worthless to your team mates. Also if a team mate leaves it leaves the lane open for creeps to keep pushing and the opposing team gains a big advantage.

Fix
Lanes are not connected. Creeps spawn in the middle and attack to your base. This way every one can easily fight creeps and gain levels without the opponent easily gaining the upper hand. Squads will have to take turns guarding the base and attacking the enemy. Also I have triggered it so that if players drop out lanes will stop spawning creeps, keeping the game balanced.
---------------------
Thats about it other than that DOTA is an excellent map. If they would take into consideration these few flaws it would be a perfect map.
---------------------
Also I know some of you will not agree with me on DOTA having flaws and thats fine.
No offense but I don't want to hear about it.
I'm just looking for suggestions on how to improve my map and some testers.
I don't want this to turn into a thread about if DOTA has flaws or not.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

Firespark, don't double post. There is an EDIT button on your post for a reason. Anyways I'm not exactly thrilled to here there is another map that is going to be just like DoTA (one of the most annoying and unnecessarily over-hyped maps on battle.net). Most of us here wish DoTA did not exist, thus the many threads with titles such as, "KILL THE DOTA!", and would not ever want to see another version made.

I am telling you this because with such a negative attitude from many people on the hive towards DoTA, maybe you should try creating your own map that is influenced by DoTA but does not completely take its ideas with only a few fixes. We are all fans of original, unique, and creative maps here at THW. We are not fans of DoTA remakes.

 

[burned]

seems much worse with those fixes than without them. It aint big problem to deal with ranged...and you can very easilly see what skills hero have choosen, but its obvious this doesnt have a chance to go same level as dota allstarts, but maybe it will gain few fans.

 

[The Last Istari]

Flaw
To start with you always know what you are up against if you have played the map a good bit. For example if some one picks Sven you know what powers he has and exactly how to stop him. You could pick a Hero that goes against him well or pick items that go against his powers making it easy to stomp him.

Fix
So to fix this I gave players the ability to customize their hero, by buying the spells they want to have. Also I made them all look the same. This way you never know what your going to be facing when you attack your opponent.

If they're getting the spells they want, why bother to make them all look the same? You'll never know anyways.

Flaw
Ranged Vs Melee this creates a problem because if a team is heavy with ranged and the other in melee, then ranged have the upper hand in the entire beginning of the game. If they do not manage to wound their enemy's bad enough in the beginning then melee crush them late game.

Fix
To fix this I made all heroes ranged. This balances the game forcing people to create new strategy's in order to win.

So you're going to rip apart the variety in an AoS so it's more like a hero that you use. Melee vs. Range is a main part of an AoS, ripping it out is a bad bad idea.

Flaw
Each lane is connected and forces you to fight another player in order to push the lane and destroy towers. If you have to run back to base or get killed a few times you can drop really far behind in levels and be worthless to your team mates. Also if a team mate leaves it leaves the lane open for creeps to keep pushing and the opposing team gains a big advantage.

Fix
Lanes are not connected. Creeps spawn in the middle and attack to your base. This way every one can easily fight creeps and gain levels without the opponent easily gaining the upper hand. Squads will have to take turns guarding the base and attacking the enemy. Also I have triggered it so that if players drop out lanes will stop spawning creeps, keeping the game balanced.

So you take out what makes an AoS and AoS?

The AoS is should have lanes, that's what it's known for. From the looks of it it just seems more like a Hero Line wars, only without the variety, without the strategy, and without the FUN.

I give Dota Reborn a 1.5/5

 

[Callahan]

Flaw
To start with you always know what you are up against if you have played the map a good bit. For example if some one picks Sven you know what powers he has and exactly how to stop him. You could pick a Hero that goes against him well or pick items that go against his powers making it easy to stomp him.

Fix
So to fix this I gave players the ability to customize their hero, by buying the spells they want to have. Also I made them all look the same. This way you never know what your going to be facing when you attack your opponent.

---------------------
Flaw
Ranged Vs Melee this creates a problem because if a team is heavy with ranged and the other in melee, then ranged have the upper hand in the entire beginning of the game. If they do not manage to wound their enemy's bad enough in the beginning then melee crush them late game.

Fix
To fix this I made all heroes ranged. This balances the game forcing people to create new strategy's in order to win.

---------------------
Flaw
Each lane is connected and forces you to fight another player in order to push the lane and destroy towers. If you have to run back to base or get killed a few times you can drop really far behind in levels and be worthless to your team mates. Also if a team mate leaves it leaves the lane open for creeps to keep pushing and the opposing team gains a big advantage.

Fix
Lanes are not connected. Creeps spawn in the middle and attack to your base. This way every one can easily fight creeps and gain levels without the opponent easily gaining the upper hand. Squads will have to take turns guarding the base and attacking the enemy. Also I have triggered it so that if players drop out lanes will stop spawning creeps, keeping the game balanced.
---------------------
Thats about it other than that DOTA is an excellent map. If they would take into consideration these few flaws it would be a perfect map.

I think it's the opposite your fix are flaws and flaws were fix.
Btw go dota forum for dota suggestion though they would laught at you.

 

[bkdud_32]

If you make this map ur just another loser trying to be cool and ruin a game.
Your "Flaws" are what make dota fun without connected lanes there wouldnt be ne fun gankage going on and ur thing about the heros isnt true because not all ppl do the same thing with there heros. and the Melee vs. Range concept is pretty much dumb they are completely balanced.

If they're getting the spells they want, why bother to make them all look the same? You'll never know anyways.



So you're going to rip apart the variety in an AoS so it's more like a hero that you use. Melee vs. Range is a main part of an AoS, ripping it out is a bad bad idea.



So you take out what makes an AoS and AoS?

The AoS is should have lanes, that's what it's known for. From the looks of it it just seems more like a Hero Line wars, only without the variety, without the strategy, and without the FUN.

I give Dota Reborn a 1.5/5

Exactly what he said

 

[Firespark]

If you make this map ur just another loser trying to be cool and ruin a game.
Your "Flaws" are what make dota fun without connected lanes there wouldnt be ne fun gankage going on and ur thing about the heros isnt true because not all ppl do the same thing with there heros. and the Melee vs. Range concept is pretty much dumb they are completely balanced.

First of all every thing in my map is custom designed and hardly like DOTA at all. The only reason I called it "DOTA reborn" is because DOTA gave be the idea for the map. The only way it is even close to DOTA is in the fact that units attack your base and you have to defend it other than that is is completely original. For you to judge it without even playing it makes you a loser who has nothing better to do than set around and make fun of peoples hard work.

If they're getting the spells they want, why bother to make them all look the same? You'll never know anyways.

So you're going to rip apart the variety in an AoS so it's more like a hero that you use. Melee vs. Range is a main part of an AoS, ripping it out is a bad bad idea.

So you take out what makes an AoS and AoS?

The AoS is should have lanes, that's what it's known for. From the looks of it it just seems more like a Hero Line wars, only without the variety, without the strategy, and without the FUN.

I give Dota Reborn a 1.5/5

I made them look the same cause it was easier and seem to fit the map. As for the whole ripping apart the AoS thing have you played the map with 10 players yet? If not how do you know its not fun? Don't make a judgment unless you have some facts to base it on.

Firespark, don't double post. There is an EDIT button on your post for a reason. Anyways I'm not exactly thrilled to here there is another map that is going to be just like DoTA (one of the most annoying and unnecessarily over-hyped maps on battle.net). Most of us here wish DoTA did not exist, thus the many threads with titles such as, "KILL THE DOTA!", and would not ever want to see another version made.

I am telling you this because with such a negative attitude from many people on the hive towards DoTA, maybe you should try creating your own map that is influenced by DoTA but does not completely take its ideas with only a few fixes. We are all fans of original, unique, and creative maps here at THW. We are not fans of DoTA remakes.

If you would have even looked at the map you would have noticed that it is not just like DOTA. Its hardly even close. You would have also notice that it does not completely take all of DOTA's ideas and the map is in fact simply influenced by it.

 

[The Last Istari]

I made them look the same cause it was easier and seem to fit the map. As for the whole ripping apart the AoS thing have you played the map with 10 players yet? If not how do you know its not fun? Don't make a judgment unless you have some facts to base it on.

Easier?? Well that says, you really don't give a crap about the map itself, it sounds more like you just want to be famous. And this isn't a space map, don't use a marine, I don't see how it fits.

And yes, you ARE ripping apart the AoS, it's just a badly made hero line wars, where what it appears is just sending out ghouls or footmen, with more players, you can't lose. And I can't host, and even if I could, no one would play this. The only thing that would get people to join is the fact the word "Dota" is in it. And once they took a gander at the preview, they'd be gone faster than you could say "Wow this map sucks."

I was being generous when I gave this a 1.5, this map is shovelware of the highest order.

 

[Horn]

Hey, lets make a shit AOS and stick DOTA in the name so that someone might play it!

 

[Kidd|WhiteHeaven|]

lol. by the time they play it they say "IT SUCKS". and then its ganna keep happening till no one plays it.

 

[Firespark]

You know I posted the map here for some constructive criticism but all you bunch of immature little kids know how to do is flame people. Why don't you try growing up a bit and helping people out instead of just making fun of them. I thought this was a good forum full of helpful adults, guess I was wrong.

 

[The Last Istari]

Irony strikes when his name was Firespark, yet he couldn't take the heat.

If you won't listen to our opinions, you're map will fail, because as is, it already sucks.

You need to take in the opinions of the community, we tested your map, we thought it was bad, we told our opinions. You obviously thought we were all going to be like "OMG!!! THIS R T3H GREAT MAP EVAR!!!" When we're not.

I look forward to your goodbye thread saying everyone ganged up on you and how the mods mistreated you.

 

[WindexGlow]

I thought this was a good forum full of helpful adults, guess I was wrong.[/QUOTE]
Irony!

Let's break that down shall we.

You know I posted the map here for some constructive criticism

You name your map 'Dota reborn!'
Than you tell us that it isn't like dota like any way.
We showed our constructive criticism on that.

but all you bunch of immature little kids know how to do is flame people.

You're the one that gets pissy when people show their opinion about a map.
And you're flaming people, you're posts haven't been very helpful. In fact, you're acting like an immature little kid.

Why don't you try growing up a bit and helping people out instead of just making fun of them.

You're making fun of us for being 'immature'
And we tried helping you, but instead you just saw them as flames and not constructive criticism.

I thought this was a good forum full of helpful adults, guess I was wrong.

Ya, you being here doesn't help us either. We don't need 7 year olds or people that act like them here, just like yourself.

 

[The Last Istari]

I agree WindexGlow.

 

[Firespark]

Telling me the map sucks, I'm a loser for creating it, I don't care about it because the heroes are marines and all the other BS you all have said is not constructive criticism. That is flaming. Here let me help you out here is the definition of constructive criticism. Their hasn't been hardly any of that here.
Also some of you have made some comments that tell me you haven't even looked at the map cause if you would have you would have never made the comments you did.
And no I am not leaving, because there are some nice people here that have helped me with spells and such and I'm sure they know what constructive criticism is.
As for the title of the map. Ok so maybe DOTA Reborn is a bad title. But I got the idea from DOTA and I kind of wanted it to be in there as a tribute of sorts.
Last but not least as for not giving a crap about the map because of the heroes being marines and marines not fitting, oh yes we all know when we play a map we pick a hero because of what he looks like. Who really gives a crap what model I used. This is a beta map there is going to be a ton of stuff changed latter.
Anyway, comment on this thread all you want I'm done with it and make sure you read the definition of constructive criticism.

Thanx all! Have a great day.

 

[Campir]

Well, after that big speach I have a few things to say. Yes, your map did kinda suck but it wasn't horrible and there was some effort, and TLI you did kinda bash the map then rape it then bash it again the burn then rape it then... well you get the point, you were unnessecarily rude. No more flaming plz?

 

[WindexGlow]

So you want it to be a tribute for a game.
So you copy the name, make an apparently bad map, and tell people you 'improved what dota didn't have'
From your description, you ripped the ideas of dota, tried adding your own, and it turned out horrible.

 

[Horn]

Who really gives a crap what model I used

The very fact that someone did give a crap enough to make a point about it shows that it is a concern. You want our opinions but then shrug them off. This is why people lose any motivation to justify their points, and tell you your map simply sucks. You obviously don't want to hear our reasons.

 

[burned]

So you want it to be a tribute for a game.
So you copy the name, make an apparently bad map, and tell people you 'improved what dota didn't have'
From your description, you ripped the ideas of dota, tried adding your own, and it turned out horrible.

yup. truth hurts, doesnt it?

 

[Pyritie]

DotA is the reason why all map makers struggle to promote their map because the only thing people want is dota dota dota! When I go on bnet occasionally, like half of the maps there are dota.

I'd put this in my sig, but there's a 1-picture limit.

 

[noctune]

I have tested it and all of the triggers work fine. I don't know why they do not work for you. I can buy any item and receive the corresponding spell flawlessly. Also that terrain took me about 2 hours or so to create. The map is 100% finished.

Some stuff that's wrong with the map:

* Spells don't work, none of them. I bought the items I wanted and tried using them or dropping or putting the on other slots and using them again but it simply doesn't work. Anyway, if they DO work, please make them easier to use.

* Units spawn on the middle of the map? What the hell? How do a bunch of ghouls and footmen spawn in the middle of nowhere? They don't even battle. It's more like a hero siege map, you can't even leave base without it getting utterly destroyed.

 

[The Last Istari]

Telling me the map sucks, I'm a loser for creating it, I don't care about it because the heroes are marines and all the other BS you all have said is not constructive criticism. That is flaming. Here let me help you out here is the definition of constructive criticism. Their hasn't been hardly any of that here.
Also some of you have made some comments that tell me you haven't even looked at the map cause if you would have you would have never made the comments you did.
And no I am not leaving, because there are some nice people here that have helped me with spells and such and I'm sure they know what constructive criticism is.
As for the title of the map. Ok so maybe DOTA Reborn is a bad title. But I got the idea from DOTA and I kind of wanted it to be in there as a tribute of sorts.
Last but not least as for not giving a crap about the map because of the heroes being marines and marines not fitting, oh yes we all know when we play a map we pick a hero because of what he looks like. Who really gives a crap what model I used. This is a beta map there is going to be a ton of stuff changed latter.
Anyway, comment on this thread all you want I'm done with it and make sure you read the definition of constructive criticism.

Thanx all! Have a great day.

Argh. Big block of text.

I had no room for constructive criticism, now if this was an AoS, I would've, I have little to no experience with Hero Line Wars.

Once you get the map into the category you aimed for, THEN I can help.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Calm down. Learn to take criticism like an adult, and learn not to start flame bait by worshipping DotA.

DotA is the reason why all map makers struggle to promote their map because the only thing people want is dota dota dota! When I go on bnet occasionally, like half of the maps there are dota.

I'd put this in my sig, but there's a 1-picture limit.

DotA players are mostly retards. I don't want retards playing Warlords, because it ruins the game for other people. Since I can host, and games fill up fairly quickly (small size and 6 players ftw!) I can play whenever I want, which is all I care about.

So don't go blaming DotA. The main problem is the small playerbase - the dota player base hasn't really gotten bigger, just a bigger proportion of a falling player base.

 

[mrchewy]

In my opinion, trying to "fix" DotA only makes it worse. It's bad enough as is.

 

[Neiko]

To your terrain.

It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to make it. I can say on my map that it took 5 hours, but it still looks like crap. That's because I have a reason to have less effort put in my terrain, I've got blight everywhere. So if I were to make any terrain pretty, no one would see it. It doesn't matter how long it took to make something, what matters is how it looks. Just like school essays. It doesn't matter how long it took to make the damned essay. What matters is how it looks when I TURN IT IN.

But for your map, it's all they see. Maybe organize your bases a little more, make towers not die so fast from the enemy, and your terrain does need to look prettier. It looks really bad. You probably should have some doodads in there too. You should at least put in a custom loading screen and or preview screen.

Oh, and the rules specifically state that you need to have your map 100% playable, not 50%. Saying I'm going to change the model because it's a placeholder doesn't cut it. That means your map isn't 100% playable yet.

 

[Pyritie]

Saying I'm going to change the model because it's a placeholder doesn't cut it. That means your map isn't 100% playable yet.

If the model is a placeholder or not it's still playable. It may not have good aesthetics (omg spelling), but it can still be played.

If your terrain took you two hours, that's about the time it takes me to start outlining where the cliffs are gonna go. Seriously. My terrain in my campaign took me about a cumulative few days. And that's just one map.

Don't look at blizzard for terrain help, look in the terrain forum. Almost everything there is far superior to anything blizz has done.

 

[Neiko]

If the model is a placeholder or not it's still playable. It may not have good aesthetics (omg spelling), but it can still be played.

Eh, I guess. But that still doesn't really change the fact this map isn't really 100% playable.... Without burning eyes at least =/

 

[Kimbo]

playable and complete arnt the same. Nor is gameplay to graphics.

 

[Neiko]

playable and complete arnt the same. Nor is gameplay to graphics.

Eh, well, the map doesn't look complete. =/

 

[Pyritie]

True, but it's definately more than 50% playable.

 

[Neiko]

True, but it's definately more than 50% playable.

Ok, so it's playable, but it's not too pretty. And from what I played, wasn't too balanced =/.

 

[Razorbrain]

you want constructive critism? here you got some

Make the heroes Melee instead of Ranged, else Vampiric Aura wont work, and i cant see any spell that doesnt work for a Melee Hero

 

[RedBlade]

It needs A LOT of terraining first. Second ... buying spells (in my opinion) is really idiot. Ok making totally customizable spells at ur hero, but not buying them. Third the creeps dont fight each other, something that makes the game hard to play, cuz the tower gets destroyed easil

ADDED -

Why dont u put more models? Its boring having onlt one(i mean hero model)

U must fix these things if you want to make it a bit better.

 

[Zack_Darkfire]

Let me tell you something about your map, firstly, you cracked the basic rule os an AOS(like what The Last Istari said) and the terrain is bad, the spells are not at al triggered, the creeps are so difficult to kill, the tower is so weak, the items are very limited(very little items!) and the loading screen is not cool, and where the hell did the ranged crep go??????

 

[bkdud_32]

Hey, lets make a shit AOS and stick DOTA in the name so that someone might play it!

EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID

besides if ur map has the name DOTA in it then y make it "completely different"?

ur map isnt even close to original all u did was add custom hero to dota and get rid of ganking and different models and the melee vs. range advantages.

 

[RedBlade]

DotA is not only the map. It is a whole story. Someone may make other parts of the war between Scourge and Sentinels.

And Zack_Darkfire is right.

 

[Firespark]

Thank you all the last 17 post where helpful criticism. Thank you for your input. I plan on reworking this whole map. I got a good idea from a few maps. I'm going to see if I can combine the game play style of Custom hero battle, Footman wars and Dota into one map.

Basically instead of everyone having a base like in footman wars there will only be one base that everyone on each team will have to protect and there will be two teams. There will be 3 lanes with towers and each person will have a building that produces units every few seconds and one hero. So you will have to let you units build up and use them to destroy the other teams towers and main base. Every 5 min or so all buildings will stop making units and all heroes will be placed in an arena to fight. The winning team will get upgrades to their units that spawn that their buildings and 500 or so gold.

Let me know what you all think about this and what you would add or do different.

 

[SuPa-]

Um... excuse me while I go get my shotgun?

 

[WindexGlow]

Um... excuse me while I go get my shotgun?

Hurry, I think he might make his game even worse.


So basically, the winning team becomes stronger and stronger, while the losing team has less and less of a chance to win?
Isn't that alittle too unfair?

 

[Pyritie]

So basically, the winning team becomes stronger and stronger, while the losing team has less and less of a chance to win? Isn't that alittle too unfair?

That's called DotA.