1. Find your way through the deepest dungeon in the 18th Mini Mapping Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. A brave new world lies beyond the seven seas. Join the 34th Modeling Contest today!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Hive 3 Remoosed BETA - NOW LIVE. Go check it out at BETA Hive Workshop! Post your feedback in this new forum BETA Feedback.
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Reforged Dont make mods, boycott Reforged [EULA Update]

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Nudl9, Jan 29, 2020.

  1. Drake53

    Drake53

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    475
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    People still use hex editors in 2020? Come on, we have open source projects for handling warcraft 3 files now.
    Also, I think you meant .w3i files, which contains the game and editor version. The .w3x is more like a .zip, and usually has its files compressed, so good luck hex editing that.
     
  2. Hyperdrift

    Hyperdrift

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    9
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    You're referring to the discussion between @Brambleclaw and @Tommi Gustafsson, which was about the current Blizzard End User License Agreement.

    The OP of this thread, and most of the discussion pertaining to this issue, are focused on the current Custom Game Acceptable Use Policy, which supersedes the former document. Particularly this section:

    Make no mistake, Blizzard is trying to own (or gain exclusive license to) whatever copyrightable content is in your map, this would include original stories and characters. What is undetermined is whether a judge would allow it.
     
  3. Homor

    Homor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    534
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    The new EULA extends to old Warcraft 3 maps too? Basically overwriting their old policy? That's just really scummy.
     
  4. Cespie

    Cespie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    435
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Yes, it's relevant.
    Say that you develop a new original concept in your map, and decide to make a real game with this.
    Guess what, Blizzard now owns this game that you make, because you conceived the concept and "intellectual property" in their map maker.
    This not only applies to directly reusing the same IP that you made in their map editor. It can be used as ammunition in a bullshit-trial where Blizzard would use legal muscle to completely hijack any semi-related game projected that you may associate with in the future. Even vague correlations between your map and a product made in the future, would be grounds for a lawsuit. A lawsuit that would hold up in the long run? Probably not, but if you were a small independent developer/studio, that wouldn't matter. They'd be able to bleed you dry in legal fees with absolutely no effort.

    Making and publishing Warcraft 3 maps is now setting yourself up for future legal vulnerability.
    It's scary. Seriously, just stop posting maps at this point, unless you want to literally open your door to future IP robbery.
     
  5. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Tutorial Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11,102
    Resources:
    18
    Icons:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    10
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    And how many modders do 1. publish a map and 2. are capable game makers 3. Commit to remaking said project and finish it. 4. Also needs to use 0 of Blizzard's material in terms of story and characters.
    If you think this is common you're delusional.

    I am aware of three. Element TD, Dwarven Monster Slayer, Dota

    Even if you are aware of a few more, it is like 10 out of hundreds of thousands of maps.
    This is not something that impacts the average modder.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  6. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    15,083
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I don't think it's that simple. They can include something specific in their newer patches like the way they implemented 24 players since 1.29.
    It's easier to work on isolated cases.
     
  7. Cespie

    Cespie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    435
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    You're stuck thinking about people who remake an entire map or concept like DOTA or AutoChess.
    This applies beyond that. Any and all concepts you ever release inside a map, you're signing over legal ammunition to Blizzard.
    I can name a handful of game developers who made Warcraft 3 maps, and they have expressively stated that they have seized any and all activities within this community, effective immediately, out of fear of legal compromise.
    This goes for absolutely anything creative you may want to do in the future.
    Include a few characters from an idea you have for a novel in your map?
    That idea now belongs to Blizzard.
    Make up a general game concept in your map?
    That concept now belongs to Blizzard.
    Use custom art in your map?
    It belongs to Blizzard, as well as the likeness of any similar art being open to prosecution for appropriation of intellectual property.
    Use custom music/sound in your map?
    It belongs to Blizzard, and it once again opens you up to being vulnerable when releasing anything even remotely similar.

    The important thing to remember, is that there's so many god damn angles one can approach a copyright lawsuit from, that it doesn't even need to logically make sense. Absolutely anything you sign over to Blizzard, can be twisted and turned in such a way, that they could use it as a point of entry for legal prosecution.
    And like I said, they don't even need to win the trial, they can literally just drag it out and bleed your dry on legal fees, thereby forcing you into submitting your intellectual property, even if the lawsuit is complete bullshit.

    This is a very commonly underestimated issue.
    NEVER sign over ANY intellectual property rights to any company, unless you are literally selling out with no intention of ever touching anything related ever again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  8. Hyperdrift

    Hyperdrift

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    9
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    This is incorrect, at least in the United States you cannot copyright general ideas or concepts. The other examples you used are correct, though.
     
  9. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,043
    Resources:
    2
    Tutorials:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    hunderds of thousands of maps are utter garbage made by a newbie who just found the WE button inside the folder. do you actually see hundreds of thousands different maps being played around bnet? I bet thats 10-20 maps starting over and over and over again.
    but even then, it's not something what makes modder's life better or simpler
     
  10. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Tutorial Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11,102
    Resources:
    18
    Icons:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    10
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    That is pretty much my point. @DracoL1ch If your no-name map that no one knows about gets made into a book or game. Literary no one would know.
    So, would not impact the majority. Hell most modders do not even release a map to begin with.
     
  11. MooNek

    MooNek

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    158
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Because it won't affect* most of us, it doesn't mean we have to agree with it.

    *and I don't agree that it doesn't affect us
     
  12. rayburn

    rayburn

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    EULA or not, any new addition to modmaker community would have to suffer the consequences of the game being a meme at this point.
    How many ppl even online playing at this point, huh? Most of them are on reddit instead. And this was supposed to be the best time to roll out a map. Won't really get better from here.

    You don't really get several chances to make a first impression.

    Received my refund. Sincerely wish you luck, feel your pain. Want nothing to do with this however. Gotta turn all that frustration into productivity, hard as it is.
     
  13. Blarto

    Blarto

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    Resources:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    New EULA is not retroactive on old maps, yet.

    Old EULA Maps(1.28- editor):
    Once a user posts a map on bnet:
    1) That specific map FILE is a property of Blizzard and they can do whatever they want with it

    That's all.

    New EULA maps (1.32+ editor):
    Once a user posts a map on bnet:
    1) That specific map FILE is a property of Blizzard and they can do whatever they want with it
    2) The user agrees that he used the world editor lawfully (according to what Blizzard defines the "law")
    3) Any original concepts and ideas are licensed (BY YOU) to blizzard to use it how they see fit, DEFACTO (no contract needed, you void all contract possibility or actions of law by uploading)
    4) If you cannot assign license or claim copyright for any reason, Blizzard can just assume your stuff as copyright-free and use it as such
    5) In an event 3rd party claims license, Blizzard either will negotiate with license owner (0.0001% chance), or remove map based on copyright laws (99.9999% chance)

    1.31 editor is kinda in gray area since it uses 1.32 software, and is a "beta" phase of 1.32, but also technically not under new EULA.

    And lastly,
    Maps made under NO OFFICIAL Blizzard editor (100% 3rd party tools):
    Once a user posts a map on bnet:
    1) That specific map FILE is a property of Blizzard and they can do whatever they want with it
    2) Blizzard might update EULA to exclude this option in the future for no other reason than corporate greed/stupidity
     
  14. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    944
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0

    EULA seems to be retroactive if you agree to it. If you dont agree to it and just use the old WE versions then you are fine.
     
  15. Blarto

    Blarto

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    Resources:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I'd like to add they probably have no admissible proof if you agreed to it or not.

    That is, just because you opened the world editor privately offline, does not mean you signed a binding contract. That shouldn't fly in any sane Court. If this was not the case, Vexorian could "retroactively sign" a billion dollar contract with Blizzard by updating vjass/jasshelper EULA and sue them successfully.
     
  16. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Tutorial Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11,102
    Resources:
    18
    Icons:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    10
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    Disagreeing with something does not equal to a boycott.
     
  17. HerrDave

    HerrDave

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,102
    Resources:
    165
    Models:
    137
    Icons:
    20
    Skins:
    8
    Resources:
    165
    How about uninstalling the games, cutting subscriptions, and spreading the word that Blizzard has pulled a move the likes of which Bethesda and Electronic Arts would be jealous of?
     
  18. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    944
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I think we are missing each other here. When the new version of the EULA pops up, if you click okay and continue then you have agreed to the variation. If you don't agree to new EULA then how are you able to use the new version of the software?


    If Vexorian did what you said, he would need to get the other party to agree to it. You can't vary a contract without agreement in some form. Agreement can be express or through conduct. If they say new version of this software new EULA, then you agree to all and any terms of that EULA by accessing that software.
     
  19. Homor

    Homor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    534
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    My current plan is to uninstall my current version of Warcraft 3, pirate the most up-to-date pre-patch version, and switch to the Hive World Editor. That way I can play the game I love without having to worry about what Blizzard does.
     
  20. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Tutorial Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11,102
    Resources:
    18
    Icons:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    10
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    Interesting. If you hate (recent) Blizzard patches, surely you would go back to 1.24 without the new natives and wide screen support.
    Because if you think 1.28 or 1.30 is fine, then 1.35 or whatever patch is required to make reforged what it was meant to be.

    That being said, I do understand that using 1.30 until shit is fixed is a good option.