Does God Exist?

Does God Exist?


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A few things first: I am an Aethiest. I don't dislike/dissaprve of religion, if you want to beleive in something, go nuts, just so logn as it doesn't require you to kill people or some freaky @$#$ like that.

My 3 views on God are:
A) He isn't real.
B) I'll believe that he is real if he proves it.
C) If is he real, he is a #%$ing @!$#%!$ for letting the world suck so much.
D) There is a high probablity that life (human or not) on Earth is some sort of genetic-science experiment.

My Reasoning: A being like God, would have had to have been created perfect at the beggining of time (like: *POOF* I AM GOD). If God is so "just" and "kind", why is the world such a sh*thole? Why does he let humans (his followers and creation) suffer so much?

I have not had the best life, I have been through too much for me to believe in something like God, simply because if there was the world would be a much better place to live in.
 
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No. No no no no no.
Just someone, close this thread right now please.
This was a stupid idea, and is only going to lead to flamewars.
--donut3.5--

Sigh.... Someone pleased close this thread... donut3.5 is right, just look at the "Religion - Particularly Christianity's Place in Modern Society.
All it does is lead to sever trolling and flamewars.
 
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This is one of the threads in mind when Medivh's Tower was conceived.
The reason I posted this thread in Off-Topic was so everyone could vote in the poll. It's about time this thread finally got into the tower. If it turns into a flamewar, then members who flamed can be removed from the tower.

Medivh's Tower is intended for subjects such as these. Those who don't follow the rules should not be allowed to participate.

So let's have a serious discussion.

I'll believe that he is real if he proves it.
So proof from any other source will be rejected?
If is he real, he is a #%$ing @!$#%!$ for letting the world suck so much.
Why does he let humans (his followers and creation) suffer so much?
He can do what he wants. He's God. He made evil for whatever reason, and he obviously wants it that way.
There is a high probablity that life (human or not) on Earth is some sort of genetic-science experiment.
Conducted by?
My Reasoning: A being like God, would have had to have been created perfect at the beggining of time (like: *POOF* I AM GOD).
If God wasn't the first thing to exist, then what was?
If God is so "just" and "kind", why is the world such a sh*thole?
Who said that?
I have not had the best life, I have been through too much for me to believe in something like God, simply because if there was the world would be a much better place to live in.
Is the world all there is?
 
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This is the reason we made Medivh's tower. This isn't Off-Topic, it won't descend into a flame war

There isn't any reason a "God" needs to care about humans. It could just be some extremely powerful trans-reality being who just observes all that goes on and doesn't care about a bunch of mostly hairless primates from some small blue planet around a rather small sized star. For all we know he's busy watching the evolution of some massive giant rock monsters on some planet far away

... Yeah, I don't put too much thought into religion and any preconceived ideas of a deity we'd have from it
 
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I do believe that the world was created by a higher being(not Earth,the whole universe),since that is the most logical thing,we couldnt appear out of nothing without some interference,thus there must be a higher force affecting the creation of all that we know of.

Although i dont really believe in god the way modern religions show him.It is possible that God doesnt have that much power to affect our world,or that he doesnt want to,or he doesnt even know about us,and is focused on an another world,while our was just a mess-up.There can be a thousand different theories,maybe all of them would be wrong,then again,maybe all of them would be true.

In our modern society,a God-like form is necessary,for it is the only thing some people can put their hopes into,and even if it is not real(which i dont really believe)the belief itself can relieve some people from suffering,guide them.

Religion should be a good thing,it should bind people together,put in their heads that there are things that are right and wrong,but it took the wrong turn somewhere.

Christian religion has some good parts that would make the world a better place(Thou shall not kill,respect other people no matter what they believe in,do not act on hatred etc.)only if they didnt think that every non-christian is condemned to hell,and that its their "duty" to convert them into christianity and save their souls.

Muslim religion is too uptight,their women are treated like crap,a lot of them is using it as an excuse to kill other people.It hasnt brought much good to the world anyways.

I personally like buddhists the most,since their way is to "live and let others live".In a world where everyone is sticking their noses into other people's business,this would solve a hell lot of problems.

Sadly,belief in god is twisted,profited of,and misunderstood by many.
 
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I believe that Heaven is situated at the center of the Milky Way galaxy, being a gigantic black hole. Each passage through the hole reveals a new heavenly zone, 7 in total. Once the 6th gate has been passed, angels weigh your soul and karma, evaluating if you should be reincarnated or live eternal life as a free spirit.

No, seriously, I believe in a god, just not in the heavily stereotyped old man who lives in the clouds. My god would just be some unknown force which has created us all, be it a thing or a natural event... Not a very developped opinion, but nothing more can be said concerning a precise representation of our creator. Besides, if there wasn't a god, how would we all be here?

This is a very touchy subject because if you think there is no god, then you wonder what could have created life. If you believe that god exists, then what created that god, and what created the thing that created god?...

Japut3h said:
... a lot of them is using it as an excuse to kill other people..
People can interpret these holy texts in many many ways. If some terrorist extremist interpreted them in a way meaning "OMGKILLKILLKILL", and people were ignorant enough to follow him, then that wouldn't be the text's fault, it would be the population's fault. It's like someone saying "I just bought this computer and it freaking sucks!", when he doesn't even know how to open it.
 
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I do believe that the world was created by a higher being(not Earth,the whole universe),since that is the most logical thing,we couldnt appear out of nothing without some interference,thus there must be a higher force affecting the creation of all that we know of.

My question would be, where did this "God" come from, then?

Although i dont really believe in god the way modern religions show him.It is possible that God doesnt have that much power to affect our world,or that he doesnt want to,or he doesnt even know about us,and is focused on an another world,while our was just a mess-up.There can be a thousand different theories,maybe all of them would be wrong,then again,maybe all of them would be true.

If I were him / her / it I wouldn't give a damn either.

In our modern society,a God-like form is necessary,for it is the only thing some people can put their hopes into,and even if it is not real(which i dont really believe)the belief itself can relieve some people from suffering,guide them.

People can put their hopes into each other.

Religion should be a good thing,it should bind people together,put in their heads that there are things that are right and wrong,but it took the wrong turn somewhere.

Right and wrong / good and evil are points of view.

Christian religion has some good parts that would make the world a better place(Thou shall not kill,respect other people no matter what they believe in,do not act on hatred etc.)only if they didnt think that every non-christian is condemned to hell,and that its their "duty" to convert them into christianity and save their souls.

Christianity has been warped by the church into thinking they should "save" people. It was done that way because more people = more power and money.

Muslim religion is too uptight,their women are treated like crap,a lot of them is using it as an excuse to kill other people.It hasnt brought much good to the world anyways.

This statement is born of ignorance and is not correct. Women are covered to prevent lust, and other indecencies while in public. The people blowing themselves up in the name of "Allah" aren't followers of Islam. Killing another is a serious crime in Islam, just like Christianity. Besides, Christianity hasn't brought much good to this world either.

I personally like buddhists the most,since their way is to "live and let others live".In a world where everyone is sticking their noses into other people's business,this would solve a hell lot of problems.

Yes, Judaism is one of the few religions that doesn't try to convert others. They may have less power in the world, but at least they are tolerant. Buddism is actually just a belief in self - perfection through discipline; it's not a religion.

Sadly,belief in god is twisted,profited of,and misunderstood by many.

That statement pretty much sums this topic up.
 
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No, seriously, I believe in a god, just not in the heavily stereotyped old man who lives in the clouds. My god would just be some unknown force which has created us all, be it a thing or a natural event... Not a very developped opinion, but nothing more can be said concerning a precise representation of our creator. Besides, if there wasn't a god, how would we all be here?
Exactly what i was thinking.

People can put their hopes into each other.
Many find it much easier to put faith into a all-knowing and high being into a fellow human.Sad but true.

This statement is born of ignorance and is not correct. Women are covered to prevent lust, and other indecencies while in public. The people blowing themselves up in the name of "Allah" aren't followers of Islam. Killing another is a serious crime in Islam, just like Christianity. Besides, Christianity hasn't brought much good to this world either.

Christianity flags many things as "indecent" and "wrong",such as the human body,lust etc.Islam does the same thing,only with greater intensity,educating women that they "belong" to only one man(their husband) and that they are strictly forbid to show any parts of their body(including the face) in public after they marry.

No human should "belong" to an another human(a.k.a. be his property).And if the human body was shaped by their god,it shouldnt be hidden as something shameful.Lust is one of the primary human instincts,and people shouldnt be ashamed of it at all.If there was no lust,the human race wouldnt exist.In muslim countries they actually cut out the parts with kissing out of the soap operas,because they consider it wrong.

Their religion might say that women and men are equal,but their laws say a completely different thing.Any law thatabides only to a certain group of people is nothing but discriminating.Women can experience lust too.So why dont men go outside with their faces completely covered?

Anyway,i read in the paper that a Muslim said he saw Jesus,and that he converted his religion to Christianity.The Muslim authorities condemned him to death sentence(i think this was in Iraq),but i think he got out because a lot of people stood up for him(Bush was one of them,this doesnt make him a nice guy,he probably wanted to show his "superiority" and stick his nose elsewhere like he always does).

Im not ignorant of the Muslim people at all.If i met a Muslim,id respect him just like i would respect any other man,and wouldnt judge him by where he is from,or what he believes in.If the Muslims like the way they live,its not up to me to say they should change it.If they grew up in such a culture,then probably the worst thing that you could do is try to convert them and change their way of life.I just think that their laws are just an another example of a belief in God gone a bit wrong.Belief in the Christian God has also been misused,but not as much as belief in Allah is.
 
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I just think that their laws are just an another example of a belief in God gone a bit wrong.Belief in the Christian God has also been misused,but not as much as belief in Allah is.

Muslims and Christians both worship the same god. (SUPRISE!)

EDIT:
Instant Ramen said:
Women are covered to prevent lust, and other indecencies while in public.
@ Japut3h
Women and men are treated equally in Muslim countries. They are segregated in public to prevent sexual distractions. (Yes, both sexes are separate in public, even families.) The belief that women are discriminated is mostly false lies spread by the ignorant media trying to make any sort of story just to stay in buisness, and to make the Middle East look bad so people will keep supporting the war. Segregation in public is also only fanatically supported in orthodox countries that follow the religion to the very dot.
 
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Women and men are treated equally in Muslim countries. They are segregated in public to prevent sexual distractions. (Yes, both sexes are separate in public, even families.) The belief that women are discriminated is mostly false lies spread by the ignorant media trying to make any sort of story just to stay in buisness, and to make the Middle East look bad so people will keep supporting the war. Segregation in public is also only fanatically supported in orthodox countries that follow the religion to the very dot.

Im not saying that women in Muslim countries are looked upon with ignorance.Im not saying that Muslim men consider Muslim women less worthy than them.Im just saying,that if i were made to hide my appearance,while the other sex didnt have to(in public)i would feel unequal and discriminated(in a way).I dont think that the Muslim women have much against the fact that they are veiled,but you really can not say that forbiding something to a group of people,while others dont have to abide it isnt dividing into two unequal groups = discrimination.Not a strong discrimination that black people had to live with a couple of decades ago,but still discrimination.


And even though the Muslims,Christians,and Jewish people worship the same God,they all have different ways of life that are supposedly taught and commanded by him.
 
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Japut3h said:
I just think that their laws are just an another example of a belief in God gone a bit wrong.
As far as I know, the Bible condems drinking alcohol and eating pork. I know for sure that Muslims have effectively followed this, but what have Christians done? Sorry, but neither is better than the other. People just like to misinterpret things.
 
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That sure proves religion wrong unless "God" has multiple personality disorder...

There are still some good sides of being religious though.I have read some parts of the Bible and i consider it to be a book filled with stories one should gain knowledge from,not follow them blindly.It is the stupid people who follow their religions fanatically that have done wrong things,not the religions.If we were all atheists,they would still find an excuse to do dumb things.

As far as I know, the Bible condems drinking alcohol and eating pork. I know for sure that Muslims have effectively followed this, but what have Christians done? Sorry, but neither is better than the other. People just like to misinterpret things.

Possible,but most of the Christians today live by the New Testament more than by the Bible.

Every religion has its bad sides(and some good sides).Oppinions about what is right or wrong are divided,and so are the oppinions of what is bad and what is worse.Theres no use discussing which religion is better,so lets get back to the real topic.
 
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My question would be, where did this "God" come from, then?
Where did the big bang come from?

Where did anything come from?
People can put their hopes into each other.
Not everyone can put their hope on temporary things.
Right and wrong / good and evil are points of view.
So if I think murder is okay, does that mean I can kill people without negative consequences?
If i met a Muslim
And yet you claim
Im not ignorant of the Muslim people at all.
Without ever actually meeting a real Muslim?

Okay, lets say I have made an invention. What do you think of this invention? Do you think it's a good invention? Should I be worried about what people will do with this invention?

Should I be asking you those questions? Are your opinions about the invention valid? Should you even have any opinions about the invention when you know nothing about it?

My point is, please abandon your opinions about Islam until you've at least met a Muslim.
i read in the paper that
Right there would be a good place to stop.
(Also, I find the story that followed hard to believe as Muslims believe in Jesus.)
That sure proves religion wrong unless "God" has multiple personality disorder...
...Or gave people free will.
 
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Where did the big bang come from?

Where did anything come from?

Now your getting the idea, Hakeem.

Not everyone can put their hope on temporary things.

Too bad for them.

So if I think murder is okay, does that mean I can kill people without negative consequences?

Yep.

...Or gave people free will.

Free will to spread lies and fool people to gain power for yourself? What use is it if it is misused?
 
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Without ever actually meeting a real Muslim?

Okay, lets say I have made an invention. What do you think of this invention? Do you think it's a good invention? Should I be worried about what people will do with this invention?

Should I be asking you those questions? Are your opinions about the invention valid? Should you even have any opinions about the invention when you know nothing about it?

My point is, please abandon your opinions about Islam until you've at least met a Muslim.

If i said that i would treat a Muslim equally if i met him in the future,im not automatically excluding that i met a Muslim in the past.Only saying that "i treat all Muslims equally" would sound dumb,since i know,like,2 of them.

My english is not perfect,so i cant always express myself correctly.Or maybe you misunderstood me.

As for the paper,i would probably discard the story as false instantly if it made the cover,or at least a larger section of the paper.But it was a really small section,being that it isnt really top news in my country.Not many people paid attention to it,and i doubt that anyone in the press would bother making up a story that isnt bringing a dime to anyone.The media usually lie when they want to sell their stuff.
 
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Now your getting the idea, Hakeem.
That did not answer my question at all.
Too bad for them.
Only if their hope relies on a false target.
So how would you feel if I was about to kill you?
Free will to spread lies and fool people to gain power for yourself?
Among other things, sure, why not?
What use is it if it is misused?
Has it been? I'm of the belief that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and made the universe exactly the way it is on purpose.
 
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That did not answer my question at all.
Questions are many, answers are few.

Only if their hope relies on a false target.
Until scientific evidence is brought forth, he doesn't exist.

So how would you feel if I was about to kill you?
I wouldn't care. I have found peace within myself through meditation. I feel no emotion.

Has it been? I'm of the belief that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and made the universe exactly the way it is on purpose.
Just look at the Church. "Believe in what we say or we will kill you." Or "You don't go to church?!! I have to save your soul!!!"
 
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A discussion about god doesn't always have to be about religion, such as this one. In fact I have had many disscussions about a similar or identical topic without so much as touching upon the worldly religions. It is my opinion that god is whatever you want it to be, depending on your outlook on life, and that god is most certainly not static. In short god can be anything and everything but isn't until you believe it. This doesn't mean that I believe in god, but that I believe that there is some sort of sentinence in all things which is most conveiniently and popularly called "god".
 
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Questions are many, answers are few.
That doesn't answer the question either! Are you even going to try to answer or not?
Until scientific evidence is brought forth, he doesn't exist.
No, until it can be proven either way, nobody can be sure. Can you imagine how much science (especially physics) would be a complete mess if this was what everyone thought? Science is nothing when bias is applied.
I wouldn't care. I have found peace within myself through meditation. I feel no emotion.
Ah I see. Things without minds do tend to have difficulty with right and wrong.
How about a normal person who does have feelings? I should think that they would be very displeased that their existence is about to end.
So, my point of view is that a good thing to do would be to end their life, while they think that a good thing would be for them to live.
What should happen next?
Just look at the Church. "Believe in what we say or we will kill you." Or "You don't go to church?!! I have to save your soul!!!"
What exactly does that have to do with my belief?
 
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That doesn't answer the question either! Are you even going to try to answer or not?
The truth starts within oneself'.

No, until it can be proven either way, nobody can be sure. Can you imagine how much science (especially physics) would be a complete mess if this was what everyone thought? Science is nothing when bias is applied.
Very well. I will throw you a bone. Let's call it a "theory of divinity."

Ah I see. Things without minds do tend to have difficulty with right and wrong.
How about a normal person who does have feelings? I should think that they would be very displeased that their existence is about to end.
So, my point of view is that a good thing to do would be to end their life, while they think that a good thing would be for them to live.
What should happen next?
Those in power over one another live. The others die. This is how the world works, Hakeem.

What exactly does that have to do with my belief?
It deals with the fact that it is human nature to enforce oneself's beliefs on another.
 
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And yet, a murderer is prosecuted.
Because people have taken the natural order and twisted it.

MA-StupidPeople.jpg
 
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As has been stated, God may or may not exist, and whether or not a higher power does, we have no way of knowing. No one can prove exactly how the Universe was created, one way or another, so each arguement is void.

There are an infinite number of possibilities, each one of them could be true, and we have no way of knowing. Hell, our entire existance, our entire Universe, could be just an insignificant speck on something much, much larger.

Or we could all be the by-product of random chance.

Or we could exist in a multiverse, our own just one universe in an infinite number.

Who can say for sure? People are free to believe in any God they like as long as it doesn't lead to conflict, which, sadly, it almost always does.

A world with complete tolerance is impossible. Individuals, such as myself, may be fine with letting people believe whatever they want, but others don't work that way.

On top of that, I still think Church and State should be seperate. Religion should absolutely not interfere with politics, because all it does is mess things up for everyone.
 
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"God" and the belief that we were created is just another arrogant human delusion created by our inexplicable need for a purpose. I have no qualms if there is no purpose in life. Religion is just a few people profiting over human nature.
 
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Instant Ramen,your biggest mistake is that you persistently claim that there is no higher force.

How can you be so sure?I think that the most reasonable thing to do is say what you believe,not talk about something you havent experienced like its a fool-proof theory.
 
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Instant Ramen,your biggest mistake is that you persistently claim that there is no higher force.
How can you be so sure?

Your biggest mistake is that you claim that there is a higher force. How can you be so sure yourself?

I think that the most reasonable thing to do is say what you believe,not talk about something you havent experienced like its a fool-proof theory.

You think.
 
You cant always be right you know? No one is always right.
Well there goes your whole argument. Who are christians/muslims/jews to say there's a god? Who's to say there isn't a god?

Personally I believe the Bible was just a storybook that was put together, and Christianity/Islam/Judaism are its fan club. Because really, that's where all of their "evidence" comes from, is this book.
 
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And *shock* so do Jewish people!!! Amazing isn't it?

Hm... Not very good in the Jew department, eh? (Sorry, I just have to say that :p)

Basically, there are three types of Jew 'segments':

  • Follow the book - They are strict and 'follow the book'.
  • Middler - The Average Jew in American/European society. Follows rules, etc... yet isn't as... hm... how to put it, prim?
  • Some Freer type - Can't remember much, yet not as involved as 'the Middler'.

Voila!

EDIT: Oh damn... Brought up something from the first page, gah! Sorry all.
 
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Well there goes your whole argument.

I dont see how.
My argument was about Instant Ramen claiming that there is no higher force,even though he cant possibly know that.

When we ponder something far beyond our realization,bringing up theories as facts isnt really good,as you can always be wrong.Thats all i meant.I already stated that i might not be right by believing in a God,but that is the theory that makes most sense to me.
 
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These "holy" books are not the reason for god existing. Even if there were none of these books man would still come up with something similar to god to explain the inexplicable, and you don't need a book for this.
 
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Science has proven many things that religion could not.
With God, anything inexplicable can be dismissed as divine intervention.
That explains everything pretty well don't you think?
One problem with people is that when they get a religion, it explains everything, so when you tell them anything contradictory, you must be wrong because everything would be wrong if you were right.
Also, how many wars would not have been fought if there were no gods or religions?
Many. War happens when people disagree. That's probably wrong, as everything is more complex than people think it is, but the main underlying cause of most wars is certainly not God or religion.
As has been stated, God may or may not exist, and whether or not a higher power does, we have no way of knowing. No one can prove exactly how the Universe was created, one way or another, so each arguement is void.
Well then you are free to watch while we try to figure it out.
I have no qualms if there is no purpose in life.
There is, but that purpose disappears when you cease to exist.
I have no qualms with ceasing to exist, even though it used to be my greatest fear.
Well there goes your whole argument. Who are christians/muslims/jews to say there's a god? Who's to say there isn't a god?
When people say those things, they are not representatives of any group they belong to. They are saying those things as individuals.
Personally I believe the Bible was just a storybook that was put together, and Christianity/Islam/Judaism are its fan club. Because really, that's where all of their "evidence" comes from, is this book.
There are so many things I have to say about that - many, chapters unto themselves - how about I just ignore it?
the bible is the main arguement for god existing.
So very not true.
How about we stop dragging the Bible into this? If you want to attack Christianity, do it somewhere else, Christianity is not representative of people who believe in God.

Note to everyone:
Please, before you post anything, make sure it's not just an argument against Christianity.
Bible, Koran, whatever-the-Jews-call-the-old-testament; they're the same thing pretty much.
Words. The meaning of the words, on the other hand, are very different.
 
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