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Do you like the new site changes?

Discussion in 'Hive Workshop Polls' started by Pyritie, Jun 19, 2008.

?

What do you think about the recent site changes?

  1. Forum moving/merging - like

    53.5%
  2. Forum moving/merging - dislike

    34.9%
  3. Staff ranks being rearranged - like

    46.5%
  4. Staff ranks being rearranged - dislike

    27.9%
  5. Loss of colored names - like

    25.6%
  6. Loss of colored names - dislike

    66.3%
  7. Staff rank titles being image and link-less - like

    36.0%
  8. Staff rank titles being image and link-less - dislike

    52.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    - Forums being moved around/merged
    - Staff ranks (Resource mods have same powers as forum mods, almost impossible to distinguish between resource, forum, global mod, or admin)
    - Loss of colored names (all bolded)
    - Staff titles are now link-less and image-less (Like how I am just "Model Moderator", for example)
     
  2. frostwhisper

    frostwhisper

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    Let's go like this.

    - Forums being moved around/merged: I refrained from voting, as moving forums around doesn't affect the overall functionality of the site (as long as there's organization). I do have to get used to the new layout, but that's not such a big issue for me.


    - Staff ranks (Resource mods have same powers as forum mods, almost impossible to distinguish between resource, forum, global mod, or admin): I don't like this very much. I've already heard confirmed complaints of newly appointed resource moderators giving tons of perma infractions for offenses outside of their area of moderating. I have refrained from voting here too, however, as the system has it's pluses.


    - Loss of colored names (all bolded): Strictly against. Fact is, one cannot distinguish a global mod from a resource mod. I believe these should be returned if any form of hierarchy is to be retained.


    - Staff titles are now link-less and image-less: I find this a good change. The pictures were a tad confusing and overkilled the mods' profiles. I think the system w3c has (the one we've adopted now) works better at showing who does what.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2008
  3. HappyTauren

    HappyTauren

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    Forum moving/merging - like: Why? Easier to appoint moderators and to know who is responsible of what, simpler - better. Also, there is better organization instead of mess we had before (50 sections on the main forum page).

    Staff ranks being rearranged - like: Why? This is communism now. People have rights just as they deserve them, and there is no such stuff as "resource moderator" title. All moderators are equal, and there are no slaves. All moderators have the same permissons (in their own domain, be it forum or resource section), though most moderators also have their appointed forum now. It is easier for site to work like this, as well for administration, but if you want to contact global mod or admin (Ralle), all you need is to use Admin Contact.

    Loss of colored names - like: Thanks god.

    Staff rank titles being image and link-less - like: Why? Because you know exactly what a moderator has power over, and know whom to contact if you have problem in certain section (though it is still best to use "Report Post" feature).
     
  4. Rui

    Rui

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    Forum Moving/Merging: I liked some things, I disliked others, so I voted for both the options. I am VERY happy to see The Arena and the Off-Topic forums back on top, however, there are some extra things that could have been done, and I also didn't like the change on the Staff Forums.

    Rearranged Staff Ranks: I (somewhat) like the new ranks. Although I preferred if the Hive chose it's moderators carefully (like in Wc3search), stopping the distinguishing between Resource, Forum, and Global moderators was a nice thing to do, it makes everyone feel equal.

    Loss of colored names: I dislike. Not like they have to mean anything, I preferred if Wc3 Modders (Map & Spell makers, JASS coders, or moderators of any the Warcraft III Modding forums) received a color, and the Artists (2D/3D designers, including Art) received another color, as well as Administrators with a third color, and Global Moderators with a fourth.
    That would distinguish between Modders & Artists, globals, and the people of the administration, without creating any type of ranks.

    Staff Rank titles being image and linkless: - Hum, there must be an error here, they were images but they contained a link to Forum Leaders. Anyway, I think these images could be restored for the purpose I said above^^
     
  5. Squiggy

    Squiggy

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    Mmh i don't like the new GUI/JASS design.. being merged together, one loses the overview.
    Btw. where is the Spells/Systems category?
     
  6. Kimbo

    Kimbo

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    Forum Moving/Merging: Fine with it.

    Rearranged Staff Ranks: Some parts are okay....which things would be more fancy like image labels instead of text.

    Loss of colored names: Dont like, give colour back, stupid decision to remove as it categories people easy and sets them apart.

    Staff Rank titles being image and linkless: Lame, give it back
     
  7. frostwhisper

    frostwhisper

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    I still believe that some moderators should be restricted of higher powers (infraction giving for example) to prevent power abuse. Because we all know it's going to happen sooner or later.
     
  8. brad.dude03

    brad.dude03

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    Sooner or later. I think that some of the Resource Mods are not qualified to have power in the forums, which is why they were RESOURCE mods and not FORUM mods in the past.

    Iunno. I guess we'll just deal with it as it comes.
     
  9. frostwhisper

    frostwhisper

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    Quoted for truth. Also, by handing global powers over to the resource mods, one might say he simply brought the boundaries between the areas in need of moderation. Forum and resource moderators had different jobs. Now... it's all just a big mess.
     
  10. Rui

    Rui

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    Yes, I don't know the Spells and Systems should have been removed :\ it was better if they kept their old sections.
     
  11. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth

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    I really liked how the Colored Names/Image Label things helped you distinguish people.
    As for the forum moving/mod re-organizing I guess that's good.

    I accidently voted for liking image and link-lessness though =(
     
  12. Hawkwing

    Hawkwing

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
  13. raft_pl

    raft_pl

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    Staff ranks - i like this, cause it removes inactive moderators -> gives active users a chance to break inside the Hives' mystical&mysterious staff.

    Staff titles - good change, i disliked the images that were showing who's taking care of what. They were showing a suggesting thing, like map image for map section moderators, but that's the only thing you could have been sure of. In other cases you've had to move cursor above the image to read the description.

    Bolded names - bad. As people above said, it was much easier to know who's a moderator and who's an admin when the nicknames were colored.

    Forum merging - as almost everyday, i entered the Hive forum site and clicked on the User CP link. Then i looked at the new posts at subscribed threads. After i read them all, i wanted to look for some new threads i haven't visited yet. I click on the Triggers & Scripts link and wait for the page to load. Then - W00T! Where the hell is the GUI section? Who kidnapped the Spells and Systems?! Instead of those clear four subforums i've seen one huge, ugly page filled with threads with bolded names such as GUI or JASS. So, my word on this matter - VERY bad. Most new users won't bother with selecting proper prefix. This is gonna create lots of chaos and mess.
    So:
    GIEF GUI/JASS/SPELLS & SYSTEMS/AI SECTIONS BACK!
     
  14. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk

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    Forum Moving/Merging

    • This is all for the better. The site had too many forums on the front page and was too overwhelming. Thanks to the merging, things are clumped together to allow for easier searching and so forth. Regardless, you all forgot to make mention that the new mixed JASS/AI/GUI section now has prefixes that distinguish which type of thread. I'm glad Ralle took this suggestion, because ultimately it will allow for internal indexing of an awesome degree in those forums.

      You also need to recall that this is a modding site, so off-topic discussion should be kept to its own isolated area (Refer here). This change is better because it tells users that "Hey, this is a modding site, but if you insist on discussing random things, there's a corner you can do it in." This makes the site appear more professional in its primary use.
    Rearranged Staff Ranks

    • This is a step in the correct direction, though obviously it is not perfect yet. This is a prelude to what is hopefully to come, a full staff purging and redo. Regardless of that fact, I do agree that some of the titles are a bit overwhelming and that new organization should be considered. The biggest problem is that certain users simply moderate too much, which is a direct result of there being too much to moderate in the first place. The entire site needs to be condensed down to a more manageable level, though I imagine if everyone keeps complaining about the smallest of forum changes, this will unfortunately never happen.

      What people also fail to comprehend is the obvious; before, the staff looked like this:
      User -> Mini-Mod -> Resource Moderator -> Forum Moderator -> Global Moderator -> Administrator​
      That is way overwrought, too complicated, and the lines between half of the ranks are blurred anyways. What exactly is a global mod? People say that a global mod is an admin for all intents and purposes, but without access to the admin cp. Well let me ask you this, if you can trust a user to moderate every single section on the website, why can't you trust him with at least limited access to the admin cp? The reality is that this distinction makes no sense, so I vouch that global mod be removed altogether. This is the first good thing that's happened.

      Also, consider what the difference between a resource mod and a forum mod are. Are the resource areas not similar in structure to a forum? Does this distinction exist because of a technicality in how the resources are wc3s styled rather than forum-driven? I say that the distinction is utter bollocks and that a forum moderator and a resource moderator are the exact same thing as far as it matters. Therefore, this distinction should be removed as well, and thankfully it has.

      This is now the staff structure:
      User -> Mini-Mod -> Moderator -> Administrator​
      Look how much more condensed and less-confusing that is. Now you don't have any silly and truthfully obligatory distinctions, now you have only to redo the staff list itself and everything will fit together like it should.
    Loss of Colored Names

    • The only purpose the colors served was to make you feel special when you got promoted or something stupid like that. The reality is that the only legitimate value of colors was on the main page (Not main forum page) so you could browse profiles according to staff rank. Really, though, this served no actual value as that is why these forums exist.

      Anyone that makes up complaints to the color being removed is just bitter because they feel like they aren't as cool anymore. Get over yourselves, this is a website that has to be run in an organized fashion, not a God damned popularity contest.
    Staff Rank Titles Being Image and Linkless

    • Moot point, I say; the links would have been a valid point if they linked to the forums that were being moderated themselves. However, though, the links were just to the staff list, which makes no sense and doesn't help users at all. If you are so worried about new users being unable to find the link at the bottom of the forum page that says "View Forum Leaders," then you should just provide an additional link in your signature. Still, though, it's incredibly easy to add the html links into the staff titles without making it an image, so losing links really doesn't constitute a problem in the first place.

      The images are just a similar issue as with the colors above. I mean "Ooooh, cooool, he's got a WYVERN ICON AMG!" is ridiculous. They served no purpose whatsoever, and the logic behind the titles being text is infallible. The titles as text allows users to see exactly which forums the specific moderator moderates. This is valuable because then they can know exactly who to turn to when they have concerns in those forums. Additionally, this allows the administrators to delegate certain responsibilities to the moderators within specific forums. God forbid the moderators might actually have to do something now.

      Other than the mistakes and sheer mass of forums that some users moderate, the new method is unquestionably superior to the old method.

    Now I guess I have a list of random concerns that people had that I have to address somehow. Great, well, if all you cared about was my opinion on the topic at hand, stop reading now.
    If they would abuse power like you suggest, they should be removed as moderators in the first place. This goes along with the need for the staff to be purged in order to come full circle in a total staff reconstruction.
    What you need to understand is the following: All that has been changed is the nomenclature. The forum mods and resource mods were virtually identical in purpose before anyways. If a mod isn't qualified to have power in a certain forum, then don't give him power in that forum. It's a very simple solution, one that goes perfectly along with what I was saying earlier: the staff needs to be purged and redone entirely. Some people are terrible representatives of the site and the staff, but they do moderate resources pretty well. That is why the mini-mod rank still exists, because it allows people to help in the resource moderation without having the power to totally screw things up. Bingo, perfecto, exactly what you wanted in the first place.
    One might also say that you're falling into the identical trap that Brad did. They still have different jobs, all that has changed is the nomenclature. Separating resource mods from forum mods in the infrastructure of the website is a ridiculous notion, but of course it makes sense that some people are better qualified to moderate forums than resources and vice versa! You'll notice that there are some users that indeed do only moderate resources, though they are called a moderator! Clear your mind of the fallacies with which you're thinking and it'll make perfect sense!
    I also wanted to discuss this a little bit..

    Consider that whether a question has to do with GUI or JASS or AI has little actual impact on what the solution to the question may be. In reality, these prefixes aren't even needed because now people will probably yell at each other for using the incorrect prefix. Regardless, though, consider that a GUI question may have a JASS answer, or that a JASS question might result in an answer that makes more sense to the user in GUI! The very distinction between a trigger question in GUI and a trigger question in JASS is blurred in the first place, so by virtue of splitting the sections up you have limited the range of given solutions to the problem! Now by putting them together, suddenly you've created a world where GUI and JASS are not so different; Were they ever? They're both programming, just one is less intimidating and the other makes lots of stuff easier for those that know it. Regardless of that discussion (Wrong place, as far as I'm concerned), this blurring makes things infinitely better in the long run, every other concern should be taken with a grain of salt.


    So please, consider that these changes are for the better regardless of what you might think currently. With a little more focus and a lot more support from the users and the staff, the hive may yet become better still; but ultimately, this cannot happen if the users do not support the admins. Please, for the site's sake, support them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2008
  15. frostwhisper

    frostwhisper

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    You make some valuable, good points, Dusk. I guess we shall wait and see what the changes bring about and help in any way possible to improve the situation, if things come to that.
     
  16. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    Some users who would make good resource mods I would NEVER want to see with powers to infract and ban. Being able to neg-rep is one thing, and being a resource moderator got you used to that. Now, if somebody is promoted, they are overwhelmed with all this power and don't know what to do with it. Septimus, for example, gave someone 9 permanent infraction points to someone who spammed. Once we told him more about infractions, he more understood how they are to be used. The old ranks were good for that. Letting someone get more power in each stage of promotion. Now, there's only three stages, so the learning curve is much steeper.

    Wrong. We only had the power to reject, approve, etc resources. We could not delete resources, delete posts, or edit posts. Forum mods CAN delete threads and edit/delete posts. That is a massive difference right there.

    What, so you can be admin? Oh please. You've done enough damage already.

    We need more map moderators, not more moderators with the power to ban and such.

    Fixed.

    Wrong. GUI questions get GUI answers (except for maybe some custom script) and if people ask JASS questions, they're going to slam their head on the wall if people give them responses in GUI.
    YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME.
    Yes, they have always been very different. Ask anyone who lurks in the systems/spells section. OH WAIT, YOU GOT THAT REMOVED. MY BAD.
    You mean admins + global mods? Because in your eyes, they're exactly the same.
     
  17. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk

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    If you would entrust them to review resources but not do things a mod should be capable of handling, that is why the mini-mod rank still exists. I've discussed this at length with Ralle and he was the one that explained that to me. If you have any specific names, send them to Ralle and he will likely take care of it after discussion with the rest of the staff.
    Only in the areas they moderate, which I elaborated on in detail in my last post. If it isn't that way now, it should be and I will likely suggest to Ralle that it become that way.
    I have been offered more than a half-dozen times by your administration to join the Hive's staff and help out tremendously. Do you know how those offers ended? No, all you know is that I apparently declined because of how I'm not a moderator right now. I declined politely citing that I would rather help from the shadows than be thrust into some environment I am not comfortable in and have things expected of me. Regardless of the fact that my loyalties lie elsewhere, I am here typing these things because I want to help and see the Hive blossom into something great.

    If by some misguided illusion, though, you think that my suggestions to help improve the site are being made to secure me a spot in the administration, you only exemplify the ignorance and naivety that people have come to expect from the hive. Your attitude and your ignorant and arrogant comments are the very reason why suggestions such as mine are being taken seriously by the administration. They want to improve the site, whereas you apparently want to shunt all potential improvements and keep it the same way it's always been forever. That's your opinion and no one can take it away from you, but realize that the site needs to improve one way or the other; if you won't support me, at least support the admins' right to make their own decisions in the matter and trust their judgment as you've come to do in the past. I am only here to help, I want no staff position, I want no title, I want no rep, nothing at all.

    I'd respond to the rest of your points, but your post degraded to random cursing and flaming so I'd prefer not to.
    Thank you for the response. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2008
  18. Taur

    Taur

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    Have to say I agree with that... some mods arent qualified, others arent active, etc.
     
  19. busterkomo

    busterkomo

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    I preferred when the off-topic section was lower, so I could browse all gaming categories, + computer tech at the same time, although this is a personal preference, and I'm sure I'll adjust in time.
    I basically know the rank of every moderator, so It has no real impact to me in that sense, but the ranking seems to be rounded know, with each mod being treated equally. However, a lot of mods don't deserve to be treated as fairly as others.
    I'd probably be pretty pissed off if I had one, because I think they looked awesome, but I don't, so my vote is null. I know this doesn't really matter, but a lot of mods avatars went with the colour
    I'm not even fucking going to bother, as the last three of the changes listed are linked so much it's pointless.
     
  20. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Mini-Mods can't do all that much. They can give a thumbs upon a resource, and change tag and categories. They cannot approve a resource. Therefore we need Map Moderators to approve them. Now what the other members are saying is that they don't want some to have much power, but trust them with moderating maps. Mini-Mods are even lower. They aren't trusted with any power really. Some users can be trusted with taking care of resources, but not giving out punishment. Having the power to punish another user is usually where problems arise.

    Now if you were to change Mini-Mods so that they could approve, and had Resource Moderators that oversaw their given area, that would make more sense from your point of view. So a Map Moderator would have full power in their area, and the Mini-Mods would just do what the Map Moderators do now without the powers to punish.

    Well that came off rather arrogantly. To me, that came across as, "I'm better than all of you, and my ideas will improve your site, even though I may not be very active at all." Now I'm not saying you know nothing about the site, or that you indeed think you are better, but I wouldn't come to another site and tell the users (especially highly regarded members) that their site isn't very good, and that you are going to make it better, but not post or be involved in any way. Instead of flaming and telling staff and users off, how about trying to work with them? It seems to me, you think your ideas are the only good ones, and that because the admin apparently loves you, we have no say, and you re going to run this show.

    Get off your high horse.
     
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