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Display an user's substandard resources at Resources tab

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Level 29
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Can we keep displaying bundles that ended up in the substandard bin at the posting account's Profile page's Resources Tab ? because right now have to log in, access profile page, view Postings tab and sift through posts on that list to find something residing in that section.
Is substandard section an recycle bin or an proper section ? if its supposed to become the latter then why hide an resource in there at the first place.
 

Ralle

Owner
Level 77
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I am not sure everyone would be happy with it. I am hiding them because I believe some people would feel embarrassed to have them show. Then again, they could just delete them I guess.

Anyway, I am currently reworking the moderation system. I will revisit this when it's ready.
 

Archian

Site Director
Level 61
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
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Please for the love of all good things, do not delete any resources that you upload to this site. The word "Substandard" is misleading and will be changed to something much more fitting. Like for instance, "Useful Models".

Only problem is, that section is a complete mess. We are currently working on a solution.

And like Ralle said:

I am currently reworking the moderation system

So stay tuned guys!
 
I believe there's a way for that even though it's not a full delete. Basically you can replace the uploaded file with something else.

But that's bullshit.
I know that posts are kinda belonging to Ralle, but resources should belong to the creators and to them only. It would be super shitty if you don't have the creative right and the intellectual property of something you worked on very hard.
 
Level 50
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I don't think substandard quality stuff should be protagonized to that degree to equal it with legit resources in user tab. Even though it may be useful, it is rule breaking this way or another. Every mod hosting websites draw the line at some point when it comes to standard of uploads. Because if they wouldn't, philosophy would be anything goes. Quantity would come before quality in theory.

I also agree with @General Frank. When someone wants to remove content he created, for whatever reason, decision should be on him only.
 

fladdermasken

Off-Topic Moderator
Level 39
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Messages
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Also, it would be good to let the users decide whether they want their resources to be deleted if they don't like them personally.
Technically, users still decide. It's totally alright to put out a request to have your resources taken down. If you legitimately want to, we will make it happen. We just don't want it to be user-regulated to save us the trouble of having to manually restore them whenever somebody ragequits and makes a rash decision to pull all his/her resources, and then returns a day/week after and wants them back up. A huuuuge majority of all Staff Contact threads that request this end up with the user going back on the request after calming down a bit.
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 40
Joined
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13,183
Well my recent experience with deletion was annoying.
I wanted to delete two of my maps, I could not find a delete button so I made an empty map named "DELETE THIS" and spammed the description with "xxxxxxxxx"

A mod deleted it without me making a thread that way.

As for displaying substandard - no. Please don't, at least not in the current state.
There are some fairly good stuff in the substandard sections but there are also really shitty ones. Those are not exactly worthy of being displayed IMO.
 
Technically, users still decide. It's totally alright to put out a request to have your resources taken down. If you legitimately want to, we will make it happen. We just don't want it to be user-regulated to save us the trouble of having to manually restore them whenever somebody ragequits and makes a rash decision to pull all his/her resources, and then returns a day/week after and wants them back up. A huuuuge majority of all Staff Contact threads that request this end up with the user going back on the request after calming down a bit.

That is totally understandable, but as I said the author should be in full control of his or her work, not just technically. I would be ashamed to see if a rouge mod or user uploads stuff that previously been deleted, even if it is for a very dumb reason. I know this is supposed to be a community and deleting is not good in the first place, but it should be noted that this is not a service the resource creators are giving to the community, it is their free time and passion they are spending, even if they just want to showcase soemthing they have made. I for myself can totally understand if someone wants to make down their stuff for good and I can understand if they want to reinstate them if they have calmed down.

But if you are concerned or can't simply be bothered with the fact that users are unpredictable and can make stupid decisions just make the sytem idiot-proof and hassle-free. That way you will save both time and effort in the long run. This IS a community after all and the majority should lie in the hands of the active users, IMO.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
Level 45
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,492
I'm a big believer in this. Clean-up (& the necessary renaming) of the "Substandard" section is imminent and will be handled as necessary, but when I am looking for an artist's resources I want to find all of them; anything they haven't hidden via deletion, that is.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,806
As for displaying substandard - no. Please don't, at least not in the current state.
If they could separate the Substandard from the normal section under the Resources tab, why not?
Just make the user to un-delete their own threads/submissions. That would solve the problem.
That's like partially giving moderator privileges :) Let's see if they can/will do it.
 
Level 50
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Reasoning for deleting stuff you made doesn't need to be even legitimate. You can do it just because. Your work - your decision. Website where you uploaded your work is a host and should only request for legit explanations from author when he asks for content he removed to be un-deleted and put back on.
Just make the user to un-delete their own threads/submissions. That would solve the problem.
In my opinion, once you delete it, it is deleted. No re upload or bringing it back to submissions section.
If they could separate the Substandard from the normal section under the Resources tab, why not?
Equalizing low quality with standard resources wouldn't mind me if there was moderator rating to filter and separate them.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
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Website where you uploaded your work is a host and should only request for legit explanations from author when he asks for content he removed to be un-deleted and put back on.
Yeah, but see, the website can be smart and say: "you want your stuff hosted here? Then we decide if it's to be deleted or not regardless of your complaints. Site's policy."
 
Yeah, but see, the website can be smart and say: "you want your stuff hosted here? Then we decide if it's to be deleted or not regardless of your complaints. Site's policy."

Well, many people would go riot if such thing ever happen or would never join such site.
But some site exist (chaosrealm, former xgm, most chinese sites) that don't even give a fuck about the author's permission to upload the author's resources on their sites. Even if you ask to have you resources removed you will get laughed at or worse. In my opinion this is just to get traffic and for e-peen. Nothing more. And this is pretty laughable and foul.

I know and understand that Ralle gives us a platform to form a community, propagate our made stuff and get inspiration and that's great. It's super awesome. I wouldn't have stayed for such a long time.
But if anyone from the staff thinks that they own the authors and their resources, then I would say that such a mindset is horrible AND should be frowned upon.
Just because you bring something to the table doesn't mean you are not your own master. And there are always other bullshit-free alternatives.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
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@Murlocologist, you keep mentioning "quantity vs. quality". You do realize that that's exactly what the Hive has been known for, right? Perhaps, it could be argued, there has been a shift in that mentality... But for many long years (ever since wc3sear.ch days, IMHO), this site was the "quantity over quality" site. People looking for "quality over quantity" went to Wc3c.net, mostly.
 
Level 50
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588
@Murlocologist, you keep mentioning "quantity vs. quality". You do realize that that's exactly what the Hive has been known for, right? Perhaps, it could be argued, there has been a shift in that mentality... But for many long years (ever since wc3sear.ch days, IMHO), this site was the "quantity over quality" site. People looking for "quality over quantity" went to Wc3c.net, mostly.
In that case rules and resource regulations had mislead me from anything goes.

I can't say I'm familiar with history of wc3 resource hosing websites. Mod hosting websites in general are usually either quality or quantity. Ones with tendency towards quality usually go with developed rules and quality standards for uploaders to meet. I don't want to get into digression debating on is quantity over quality or vice versa in here. My stance as just another opinion owner is that quality>quantity and with such philosophy I'm arguing substandards.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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Well, many people would go riot if such thing ever happen or would never join such site.
That (theft of author rights) won't happen because this site's working policy is also based on donations.
you keep mentioning "quantity vs. quality". You do realize that that's exactly what the Hive has been known for, right? Perhaps, it could be argued, there has been a shift in that mentality... But for many long years (ever since wc3sear.ch days, IMHO), this site was the "quantity over quality" site. People looking for "quality over quantity" went to Wc3c.net, mostly.
I've no idea about the other one's view but this one's currently evolving towards the better.
 
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That (theft of author rights) won't happen because this site's working policy is also based on donations.

The thing is it does not do entirely. Sure, if people stop donating the site will have rough times, but it will still survive.
And money should not be the main driving force behind such things.
Without a community a site is nothing.
 

fladdermasken

Off-Topic Moderator
Level 39
Joined
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Messages
3,688
Well my recent experience with deletion was annoying.
I wanted to delete two of my maps, I could not find a delete button so I made an empty map named "DELETE THIS" and spammed the description with "xxxxxxxxx"

A mod deleted it without me making a thread that way.
Is that less of a hassle than just posting a Staff Contact thread asking us to remove them?

That is totally understandable, but as I said the author should be in full control of his or her work, not just technically. I would be ashamed to see if a rouge mod or user uploads stuff that previously been deleted, even if it is for a very dumb reason. I know this is supposed to be a community and deleting is not good in the first place, but it should be noted that this is not a service the resource creators are giving to the community, it is their free time and passion they are spending, even if they just want to showcase soemthing they have made. I for myself can totally understand if someone wants to make down their stuff for good and I can understand if they want to reinstate them if they have calmed down.
They/you are in full control. We never refuse resource removals if the user legitimately wants it gone. Just think that instead of a delete button, you create a thread in Staff Contact and ask us to do it. We will probably ask you why you want it gone, and ask you to seriously consider it beforehand. But if you still insist, we'll remove it.

This is a very simple mean to sway off people who just want them taken done because of a negative comment or in the heat of the moment. And in the cases where the authors seriously want them taken down, they will be taken down. It's a win/win situation.

Also, having a delete button for your own resources doesn't stop people re-uploading stuff that's been taken down. All you can do in these cases is report the resources, and let moderators deal with it. This procedure would be the same, irregardless of which system we have for deleting resources.

But if you are concerned or can't simply be bothered with the fact that users are unpredictable and can make stupid decisions just make the sytem idiot-proof and hassle-free. That way you will save both time and effort in the long run. This IS a community after all and the majority should lie in the hands of the active users, IMO.
The system we're using, in my opinion, is exactly that.

Reasoning for deleting stuff you made doesn't need to be even legitimate. You can do it just because. Your work - your decision. Website where you uploaded your work is a host and should only request for legit explanations from author when he asks for content he removed to be un-deleted and put back on.
If we ask you for a reason, it's to make you reconsider if you truly want them down. Not that you need to justify it to us.

In my opinion, once you delete it, it is deleted. No re upload or bringing it back to submissions section.
We would probably not even have half of our current database if we went by this philosophy.

People want their resources down because they got one negative review, or because one user didn't give it a top score rating, or because the sky is gray, or because it's Monday and Mondays suck donkey balls.

And preventing people to upload their stuff because they took it down is not just punishment for the user, it's punishment to every user who wants to download and use the resources, and punishment to the site in general.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
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In that case rules and resource regulations had mislead me from anything goes.

I can't say I'm familiar with history of wc3 resource hosing websites. Mod hosting websites in general are usually either quality or quantity. Ones with tendency towards quality usually go with developed rules and quality standards for uploaders to meet. I don't want to get into digression debating on is quantity over quality or vice versa in here. My stance as just another opinion owner is that quality>quantity and with such philosophy I'm arguing substandards.
Well, like I said things have changed. But go back 5-10 years, and this site (or it's predecessor, wc3sear.ch) was the QUANTITY website, with a very low bar of entry, whereas Wc3C.net (may it live on in glory, amen) was the QUALITY website, with high standards of entry & relatively few resources.

They/you are in full control. We never refuse resource removals if the user legitimately wants it gone....We will probably ask you why you want it gone, and ask you to seriously consider it beforehand. But if you still insist, we'll remove it.
...
If we ask you for a reason, it's to make you reconsider if you truly want them down. Not that you need to justify it to us.
...
I basically agree with everything you are saying, but just to point out that the phrase "legitimately" more than implies that there is some minimum level, some 'bar' of approval which must be cleared. That "justifying" it is exactly what you expect (even if nominally).

Even if that level is simply restating the thesis ("yes, I've thought about it & I deffo want these taken down now"), it still exists as some non-zero amount of rationalization that must be given by a Resource Author to a Moderator in order to enact their will upon their Resources.

fladdermasken said:
And preventing people to upload their stuff because they took it down is not just punishment for the user, it's punishment to every user who wants to download and use the resources, and punishment to the site in general.
I mean, once again pretty much completely agree, but that basically implies that in the debate about "to whom go the rights of the Resource", you would fall on the "Community" side (assumably once it's made public, that is). There are many who are adamant that a Resource Author have complete & total sovereignty, absolute dominion, over their Resources, at any stage of the game.
 
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