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[Discussion] Let's talk about Dungeon 4 & difficulty

Discussion in 'Gaias Retaliation ORPG' started by Jumbo, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. Bleach_of_pain

    Bleach_of_pain

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    so i like the idea of bossfights that are extreamly hard like in impossible bosses. that forces the team to play tactical cause in all winter area boss fights are some classes that dont realy care about the bossmechanic for ecample assasin at yeti, necro at seer, dps at zharo (exept the starfall dodge/and the freez on the healer). i would like some in between phases that only dps can do if they react fast enough for example kill a cristal/add that gets absorbed and buffs the boss heavy.
     
  2. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    This thread in a nutshell:

    "Here is what we want, no matter how impossible it is. You come up with the practical solution! Thanks!"


    Like literally:
    You guys want super hard bosses that are never unfair, not depending on gear requirements, but with enough gear requirement to require pre-D4 gear, with no classes able to skip mechanics, no frustrating mechanics, no OP classes at mechanics, with resistance requirement but also without being forced to have resistances AT THE SAME TIME.
    As if achieving somewhat balanced encounters wouldn't be hard enough on its own.


    This thread has had absolutely no redeeming value so far. It's just theoretic drivel without any useful examples on how to achieve all those things at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  3. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    That's nonsense Zwieb. This is a discussion - not a list of neatly arranged facts about how it should be. With a lot of different bosses it's obviously possible to have ideas for specific ones - not all at the same time.
    If you think it is just theoretical drivel you didn't read carefully enough: Some people want more focus on gear req while others want less. This is not theoretical, rather it applies directly to how people, individually, believe boss design should be handled. This leads me to your point about 'this thread'. To be clear, this is not one argument being proposed, rather it is a multiplicity of opinions based on discussion from every user who has posted. Therefore it is only natural that the conclusions aren't clear. I personally suggested some bosses to be based on resistances while others found this to be a bad idea for instance. This does not mean that 'this thread wants both resistances and no resistances'. This thread is not a person. You are reading it wrong if you believe that they are all mutually consistent.

    If you read 5 different peoples' suggestions as one common idea it is easy to see why you would write the above post. Reaching a conclusion on game design is your decision as the developer alone. People are free to make suggestions without any personal burden being added to you. I don't understand why you cannot simply see these things as a sign that people enjoy your map instead of this misunderstanding of the word discussion.
     
  4. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Fair enough.
    Maybe I just had different expectations of what this thread could be about. It's just that I read through it all and made literally not a single note to myself about what I could do (realisticly) better.
     
  5. sluk

    sluk

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    why always so

    negative?
     
  6. Manipulation

    Manipulation

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    @Zwiebelchen
    I think you remember that there were times that many ppl would suggest many different ideas on different aspects of the game (including myself) but you rarely seemed to like or give a positive reply on a suggestion and you were mostly saying that what we suggest is too much for gaias or its OP or it doesnt fit, etc. Everything seemed like a burden and it seemed that u were only listening to a small/specific group of ppl.
    Eventually the forum went kind of dead regarding activity, ideas, etc and even this small amount of ppl you would always listen to stopped creating topics, at least on forum!!
     
  7. sluk

    sluk

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    I agree i only make useless threats :p
     
  8. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Yeah well I guess we should make a more specific thread about boss design. Tbh this thread was just me wanting to get an idea about the general sentiment of the forums. Thanks for your answer. :)

    Sluk, your suggestions are not good because you ask Zwiebelchen to add new extra content stuff. Zwieb is only one developer and cannot just add a new extra zone there, 5 new bosses there. This is why most people post about confirmed additions to the game or just 'minor' additions like a spell, item, balance change etc. You need to keep these things in mind, and also that Zwieb doesn't have time to explain carefully his opinion on every little thing that people post about.
     
  9. sluk

    sluk

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    And i think they are good?
    i cant post something usefull becuase you guys dont get what i want to suggest

    i want the old theme back thats all i even made my own screenshots and more
    content that is usefull because everybody knows what bosses are.
    If Gaias wants to be like a real MMO RPG than it schould also have more originallity
    People just download because its cool and yes the best ORPG there is.But
    its nothing different i dont want to say anything bad to anyone but i just want to say
    that i need other content like making more PvP.And look at the threat i mean
    i cant stick on doing bosses everytime.And if zwiebelchen does not agree than he can
    but Quests,bosses,dungeons(bosses actually and mobs) idk i think thts what everybody
    can make with idea's there are a lot more cool (O)RPG that have the same content
    as Gaias
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  10. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Well, as you say, Gaias Retaliation is the best ORPG in WC3. This is for a reason: Zwiebelchen only implements features that are considered up to par compared to the high quality of everything else in the game. If you want to criticise the originality of current Gaias, then explain to us how you would see an improvement being achieved. No, asking for random new stuff is not the way here.

    Actually I agree with you that the pvp stuff would be awesome if expanded. However, I know that Zwiebelchen is already interested in this (although I have no idea what exactly he has in mind as of yet). And come on, I really dislike the "Why always so negative" thing. It's kinda insulting to be honest.
     
  11. sluk

    sluk

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    i am gonna give up in making suggestions man its useless
    actually i just want to say that zwieb is always negative
     
  12. Ira

    Ira

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    i think i would enjoy it if the D4 had multiple kinds of enemys, the old dungeons always had only one kind, like D1 had the bandits D2 had the sea creatures, the D3 had undead. I would like the "normal creatures" to have a mixture of "normal" enemys undead maybe some resistant enemys(like water elementals in D2) and i think that the killing order of the regular mobs should be a high priority for at least some areas of the dungeon, i Imagine that with D4 being the largest of all dungeons ever multiple themes could fit into it and diffrent playsiles for the diffrent areas. the D4 could also be not a linear dungeon(the terrain is already done i think so if that was to be the case it would have to be already) like there could be multiple routes to clear that lead back to some kind of crossing so that the boss order could be changed at some point, but that would also make some bosses optional i dont know if that was the plan.
     
  13. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    I have plans for PvP, but right now, it's a low priority feature, because the classes are not balanced for PvP anyway.
    A mini DOTA or tower defense game for PvP could be a possibility in the future.
     
  14. Ira

    Ira

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    i really liked the mage class cahnge quest. i think it would be really nice if there was an enemy or a boss that had an ability that would make the next spell that it is hit with heal instead of dealing damage. alternatively something that deals damage to someone that is healed or is healing.
     
  15. sluk

    sluk

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    thanks man seems like so cool!!