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Did life originate on earth?

Discussion in 'Medivh's Tower' started by Nudl9, Sep 28, 2012.

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  1. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    Then why do you keep delude the thread with crazy ideas supported by a minimal group of non-scientists. Don't make me quote yourself as you proceeded to upload the invervention theory.
    Now allow me to quote myself:
    The evolution theory more then a theory now, it's a fact, except we can't call it that yet because we can't travel back in time and document everything as there is a small uncertainty.

    What happend to said quote, it's so contradicting i'm starting to get confused.
     
  2. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    No, I am just waiting for something, It will be more than awesome to go elsewhere and never come back where they know what Im talking about and I won't be wasting my time with trolls like you and some others ever again.

    Besides, the Ancient Astro theory makes perfect sense only if some events there regarding 'beings' happened.

    And Evolution if you can read at all, I said I do not disregard it but the above remains:

    And it is all an opinion and open mindness about things that are MYSTERY for a reason. Go live with your 'Problem solved for everything even the one you dont understand'. You are going nowhere with your ignorance.

    Yes the excavation and the found arrows and bones prove that it was not a myth, like Troy was also considered a fiction at first.

    AAA WAIT! SCIENCE IS NEVER WRONG IT"S THE NEW RELIGION ACTUALLY. IN THE PAST CHURCH SILENCED SCIENCE< NOW SCIENCE SILENCING ALL. IT IS NEVER WRONG
     
  3. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    Why did you edit this away? Also the same "argument" can be counter-applied.

    Humans aren't special in any way, at all.
    Speech and communication: Alot of animals communicate with each other through speech and body language. In a vast line of forms such as: growling, howls, biosonar, pheromones, mating dances, etc the list goes on and on. Even plants communicate. Who is to say their language isn't as complex as ours? Some animals can even speak for long distances underwater such as hippos or whales. We're not unique or special in this field at all.
    Emotions: Nothing new in the animal kingdom, elephants will mourn over dead friends and family. Cats and dogs are compassionate and will often reflect their owner.
    Fire: Fire was probably discovered by chance, then maintained and late harnessed. Humans would already know a great deal about fire from growing up on the savannah as grass is highly flammable. There's a great movie on this topic that i would highly recommend called: "Quest for Fire".
    Intelligence: There are many intelligent creatures, to throw a few examples of special traits: Chimpanzee's are almost like us and have proved better at memory tests, elephants possess self-awareness and has an artistic sense, and dogs can interpret human emotions (now that's something!).
    edit:
    ]Non-reproductive-sex and homosexuality: Human's aren't the only animal that lives and performs non-reproductive sexual acts, this is commonly found amongst dolphins aswell for the sake of enjoyment. Ducks (and alot of birds) might even turn to homosexuality when they can't mate.

    In fact humans don't have have particular special traits and our most unique one would probably be our hands. No other animals possess such sensitive hands as ours. Infact you can say that humans are pretty underdeveloped since we were suited to live a life of hunting, not farming or forming civilizations. A result of the cultivation of plants and it's capabilities for granting stable food income.
     
  4. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    And Christianity would make sense IF Jesus Christ was the son of god.
    Islam would make sense IF Muhammad actually were sent on a quest from God.
    Hinduism would make sense IF Krishna and Vishnu actually did exist.
    And so on..

    So, to conclude your belief: You believe that sometime, somewhere aliens came down and mixtured a bit with monkeys DNA and created the human.
    What makes your belief more reliable or likeable than any other belief that God made the human or that we're a result of some Anima mundi dropping it's existence down on earth, creating life? They're so different from eachtother but they still share one common trait. They're unsupported claims. They're not scientific theories, they're not even scientific hypothesis'.. they're just beliefs.. And far from any actual proof exist of either, unlike science's evolution.

    I've already answered this. Evolution is not a conscious process. We can't choose how we will evolve. Our genes, our cells, our chromosomes, our very DNA can not choose how it will change.

    Your questions is exactly the same as:

    Why didn't humans evolve crab claws?
    [​IMG]

    or why didn't we evolve wings so we could fly?
    [​IMG]

    Circumstance is everything.

    'Science' (one could consider it to not be science when it's wrong) is often wrong, but the difference is science will change if it's proven wrong to whatever is considered right. Meanwhile beliefs will stay their way, just like how you believe that we are the results of alien involvement

    "Science adjusts it's beliefs based on what's observed,
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.
    " - Tim Minchin

    Furthermore I'm curios why you have to explain everything with something extracurricular, instead of just seeing things as they are.

    "Isn't this enough?
    Just this world?
    Just this beautiful, complex Wonderfully unfathomable, natural world?
    How does it so fail to hold our attention,
    That we have to diminish it with the invention of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?"
     
  5. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    Yes except there are thousands of cases unexplained. Oh wait to you are explained?? I will not go into details but I've given examples how many times objects were named after the poor dictionary of ancient people.

    And to answer your question about why 'Aliens' would be more likely than 'Gods and angels' and to be comparing me both as the same meaning, means, you must be doubting that intelligent life CAN exist elsewhere, more intelligent, developed and more advanced technologically.

    So basically you exclude this possibility? Lawl! And exactly because of that and exactly because of contemporary accounts of such beings, cases and stuff that I agree is questionable a lot of it, but exactly LOGICALLY IF something visited is more likely to be that.

    Angels? Demons? People were called obsessed by demons for doing some things, the whole religion is full of misinterpretation you cannot put all religion and this as 'the same nonsense story'. Of course all goes with an IF - I am simply saying why Aliens and not Angels and stuff

    - because angels and gods are most likely mistinterpretations and NOT 'Oldman with lightning staff' ... that's why.,

    -------------------

    As for how not special we are and saying that we simply cannot predict how we evolve basically you are saying - It happened, casually because evolution is not planned (DUH? I thought it was planned....)

    Yes, the answer 'it so happened' is not an answer when it comes to INTELLIGENCE. Any difference in the way Dinosaurs and contemporary animals think? NO! And yet Humans like no one else start using fire and start developing their intelligence... come on something is not right here.

    ------------------------

    But anyway this is pointless to continue, perhaps ONE DAY it will become clear. I am not defending something as a FACT without knowing if it is so, I am assuming based on the mysteries around and things that have happened.

    But it seems you are defending those 'know-it-all without knowing' shallow ignorant scientists for whom everything is explained, mysteries do not exist, all is explained. One day you will see how many things are not as you imagined.
     
  6. Steel_Stallion

    Steel_Stallion

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    they explained this in the movie prometheus, some tall gray aliens made us for absolutely no reason and then tried to destroy us.

    In all seriousness, I lean towards yes, it did originate on earth. There's just more proof for that than the contrary, though I never think in absolutes. Agnostic mindset, sue me.
     
  7. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    Why are they more likely?
    I've mean they're both based on peoples sightings and I'm quite certain that more people have seen angels and spoken to God than seen aliens, so wouldn't that make angels and God more likely than aliens?

    I don't exclude the idea of aliens more than I exclude the hypothesis of God or a deity.

    Evolution is not planned.

    Sigh,


    [​IMG]


    If I agreed with you, we would both be wrong.

    Trying to explain something to you seems to be infeasible.
    I've already answered this like 3-4 times.
    Having a brain is costly and for survival maybe not worth it.
    It takes about 2% of your body mass (roughly) but almost up to 20% of your body's energy. From an evolutionary perspective this is not something great and not worth evolving, I mean - some birds did actually devolve wings because they were too energy costly and became land only creatures.

    Being too energy costly would eliminate a species by natural selection as they would have to acquire more energy than they possibly could.


    Your assuming things based on some tinfoilers idea that we're all children of alienes or whatever, not on what has happened AS the idea that we come from alien has NO PROOF.

    [​IMG]

    I'm just waiting for the moment when you'll actually use the movie Prometheus as a source for your fantasies.


    [​IMG]
     
  8. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    So you're just going to scrap the quotes and ramble on about angels and demons.

    The universe is full of mysteries, but i wouldn't believe in anything so poorly documented and flawed as aliens. Which takes us back to Fladdermasken.
    Evolution isn't planned and ManYouAreEvil pretty much explained why. If you still can't figure how it works i suggest watching some bozeman biology, a man who does online lectures relevant to campbell's biology.

    Do you even read? The human evolution can be explained pretty much from top to toe. The increase in intelligence can be explained by sexual attraction and natural selection, which seemingly didn't affect you. So don't make me repeat myself:
    Which means they would know already know the effect of the fire and the next simple and obvious step would be to harness it.

    If you were really interested in this this stuff in the first place, which you are obviously not because you can't even fact-check your own questions.
     
  9. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    No you just seem to be two idiots who do not understand at all where I am and why I am saying these things and you post me some dorky guy above to whom you compare me and post things about my intelligence when you don't even know me. You know how much fuck I give about some kid's personal insults on a forum where you won't expect much intelligence either.

    I have tried to explained a hundred times, I am not believing the things I say, I just do not exclude, it's called keeping an open mind for the unexplained things

    Exactly

    Maybe like what this guy above, don't be 100% certain about things that have not been witnessed. Just because someone is wearing a white shirt and DORKY glasses doesn't make him the most credible... Oh and what do you supposedly look like:

    [​IMG]
    This must be you then

    Other than that:

    Leave aliens VISITING the Earth aside. Are you saying that you do not think aliens even more intelligent and tech advanced MAY exist in the universe! Wow! I am done with these foolish discussions with you.

    [​IMG]
    Whoa you didn't even get my sarcasm when I said 'I didn't know evolution is not planned'

    Do you two (someone has to check to make sure yoo TWO are not actually ONE ugly troll multi-accounting) make a difference between 'I believe in nonsense' aka believing and open mindness in the unknown. Seems you DONT. Stop there and don't post if you compare me to those brain dead believers in every nonsense or will be reported for personal attacks.

    The whole alien fitting in the past is based on similar accounts and depictions and a whole lot of clues. I am not sure what part and if any of it is true. I am open minded about those holes among the discoveries that remain, I am not open minded about things that are clear and need no explanation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  10. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    >it's called keeping an open mind for the unexplained things
    Part of being open minded is being a critical thinker.

    >Whoa you didn't even get my sarcasm when I said 'I didn't know evolution is not planned
    Detecting sarcasm over a forum is kind of hard and generally using it makes you a dick.

    >someone has to check to make sure yoo TWO are not actually ONE ugly troll multi-accounting
    I believe that great minds think alike.

    > I am not sure what part and if any of it is true. I am open minded about those holes among the discoveries that remain, I am not open minded about things that are clear and need no explanation.
    First you're all enthustiastic about the former alien "theory" with a narrow mindset and now you're retracting yourself back into "i'm open minded". Not to mention you shun the believers who actually makes the content you're watching. I think you're starting to get confused now.

    >Stop there and ... or will be reported for personal attacks.
    Did i hurt your feelings?

    edit:
    Now you're just starting to get vague and uncertain, which raises the question: what's the point of you commenting here?
     
  11. Verhalthur

    Verhalthur

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    To sum up this debate: we don't know the origin of life on earth.

    Evolution is certain, but the origin is much more difficult to ascertain (as is proven by the length of the debate).

    We have a few pretty good ideas that have held up in scientific testing, but it's damn difficult to first guess the conditions of a cooling Earth correctly, and then to simulate them, and then to get life.
     
  12. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    Which you are not, I am. That's why I accept all the logical explanations about evolution but I still think there is more than that.

    ROFL, 'great minds'!!! if you are great minds I am Einstein. Speaking of which Einstein and the inventor of Stealth fighter and even Niel Armstrong may have died with secrets about contact with extraterrestrials (and a whole lot of former military guys who had high level clearance).

    Am I certain based on what I read -No.
    Can I exclude that among all the secrecy that exists around the topics it is possible - NO.
    Are you CERTAIN it is WRONG? Yes you are certain it is false information.
    Based on what are you certain? Cluelessness and lack of information and ofc pure ignorace about things you do not understand.

    Who's a dick again? You.

    Do you see where you suck, you are certain about something you have no information about.

    The point of the whole SPAM FEST (because I wouldn't call it a debate with someone who has never read anything about it and just says 'Oh that show sucks, therefore ALL is A LIE and all are crazy people - while these people being times smarter than you kid) is that there are a lot of things that science simply doesn't know about. And stop judging the shows, go see what they do behind - real research (some of them, excluding the liars and disinfo people who spread lies)

    I've never been defending this as if ultimate truth without solid proof of being so, I just say based on the many accounts it's possible. Ah so stop lying - I've been telling this I am not taking these as some truth from the very beginning, I think some of that may be true. MAY BE, POSSIBLE, OPEN MIND, ACCEPT, Key words - ever in your dictionary? No the ignorant twats don't accept anything even without knowing,

    I was defending - Don't be so sure about it' over your clueless 'Yes I am sure it didnt happen so', I am taking all with a grain of salt, I cannot believe something with so vague evidence.. And whenever there are questions science is just a THEORY about, I cannot be certain there either. No not the evolution itself, some things among our history. What a waste of pages...
     
  13. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    Congrats on the strong arguments of human evolution, yes like one guy above said, there is a lot more evidence on that. I cannot say much more in defense of other origins. However I stay open you know, for something unexpected in all the findings.

    BUT Should you DENY the existence of secrecy from the public in technology, welcome TO MY TERRITORY. I will not let you talk nonsense.

    Outside from Earth Life's origin:

    I will stop arguing with retards who fail to realize this world is more than they show to us and that the population is being kept away from secrets and you can see the secrecy on a lot of occassions. To me you are nothing if you don't realize that and thus, don't desrve further attention. If you are one of those who think there is nothing behind you are a retard.
     
  14. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    I think the thread was pretty much concluded at post #18 and everything beyond has been a painfull discussion with Eimtors unreasonable reasons.
     
  15. ManYouAreEvil

    ManYouAreEvil

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    Arguing that there's a possibility that it could be happen (in traditional physics, evaluating this chance would be impossible because the chance would be less than what we could ever measure with significant figures) without any solid proof increasing it's reliability.

    We know that life exists (implicit), so there's a chance that there's life elsewhere aswell.
    But from what we have observed of the universe so far, we know of no place that holds any life as we have observed. Less do we know of any civilized life capable of doing the genetic work that you implied.
    So the chance that the belief that we were manufactured by aliens lessens to almost non-existent, and it would be quite silly (irrational, stupid, ridiculous) to actually believe the alien story is real, until further proof is presented.

    A similiar analogy,
    We know that pigs exist, so there's a chance that there's pigs elsewhere aswell. For all we know they could the most intelligent species in the universe on another planet.
    But from what we know about pigs is that they're incapable of maneuvering and operating a spaceship, not to mention their lack of knowledge (actually, no knowledge at all) in the field of biology which would be necessary to perform the manufacturing of the human race.
    Hence, it would be completely preposterous to believe that we were shaped and made by pigs.

    [​IMG]

    But since both of the cases are presented with the same amount of proof, none, they're just as likeable.

    Why ever consider a possibility, or argue for that matter, of a scenario where an unknown species, living in an unknown location in the universe, with unknown technology performs unknown actions on the earth and the result is us.
    That's not very likely.
     
  16. Verhalthur

    Verhalthur

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    Secrecy is not implicit proof of a concept. I could, for example, believe that the United States has no nuclear weapons. There is a lot of secrecy surrounding the nuclear weapons of the United States. That does not, however, prove my theory that the United States has none of them.
     
  17. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    Secrecy in terms of 'I have a secret' yes can mean anything but secrecy in terms of people who tell you what exactly what is being hidden... Let's not start another discussion about thing again you dont know about or gonna argue without knowing? Example why ufo sightings were classified information in the 1st place? You should be ready for everything, that's what I am saying, also you're beating a dead horse. This discussion is over,
     
  18. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    Now you're starting to sound like Anachron.
    You complain that none but you understands the topic, but you're not willing to inform properly and instead just lay it out there.

    Do you know why conspiracy theories are so popular? Because it offers you a special place in a world of sheeple, an elite if you will. The conspiracies are always too perfect, don't you think? If it's something we all know, the world's a messy and chaotic place. So don't you think these "alien truths" or illuminati are a bit too perfect to make any sense? What happens to real conspiracies? Well.. people jump ship and or shit hits the fan. For example.
     
  19. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    I do not know what kind of conspiracies are true all I know there is some truth in it, some are too unrealistic, others are quite possible judging by the human nature. Funny you post an article and say how such random articles are nonsense, yes they are. The same goes for your article disregarding conspiracies. What a hypocrite. Also way to defend your beliefs, I don't believe conspiracies because I just don't. So anything I post will get such a response, I know, I know, seen it hundreds of times.

    But trolls are trolls, they don't want to just finish when you tell them it's over, they need to have the final say and to make you respond again and again. If you so much want to discuss this go elsewhere, I am not starting another topic here. Well I stop feeding trolls right now, it's not like I should argue with you when you haven't read and watched and seen interviews with various people who worked in secrecy. And I should start educating you what? Nah, not gonna happen. Like I said, I already have a place where at least when I argue with some guys they've read it and they know what they're talking about.
     
  20. Edhel-dur

    Edhel-dur

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    @ManYouAreEvil

    It is clear that evolution is the key regarding many species on our planet. However, there is a key component missing. And that key component is the missing link between humans and apes. There is that drawing how an ape evolved into a human, however it's not complete. Because there is an evolutionary step which hasn't been found yet. We found fossils of dinosaurs who lived milions of years ago, but we still haven't found a skeleton which would reflect the evolutionary mid-step from apes to humans. So with that link missing, even tho evolution itself is a fact (through other species), the evolution from ape to man is a belief. Because the missing link hasn't been found yet.

    Furthermore, as our civilization advances, we are now able to build robots and clone. I'm pretty sure we will advance to the stage where we will perfect these two things.

    I do not believe in conspiracy theories, but I do believe in this. The brain exists due to evolution. Opposable thumbs exist due to evolution. So does having 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 eyes, less body hair. Because evolution tends to equip a species with what it needs and completely remove what it doesn't need. We wouldn't grow an extra arm to help around, because than our body would need more food, the heart would need to supply an extra limb, the brain would have to take into an account that extra limb. Where I am going with this is, if aliens do exist, they would certainly look like us. Maybe not exactly, maybe they would be somewhat taller or bigger. But overall they would have the same physical traits.

    Now what I am going to say, it's purely SF, but it is my belief.

    An alien species has learned to travel through space. They found Earth but it was quite far even with lightspeed. However, their Sun was going to disappear. So in an attempt to prerserve their species, they sent a shuttle, with some of them to Earth. They arrive here over many years time, and do combine their own DNA with the one from apes. However, these aliens were not immortal. They eventually would have died of old age. And as they saw the results of their experiment, all they could see was something which looked similar to them, but it was 1000 times more stupid. They saw a species which couldn't understand how to make a wheel or make fire. And in all this time, they would feel grief. Grief for their own world, species, friends, family, from where they came from, how they all met their end. How that planet would never exist again because the Sun went out. So because of this, I think they took the conscious decision (at one point), to leave Earth and go straight into our Sun.

    They would do that, because they were intelligent. They would do that, because there was no meaning to rule over some apes for the rest of their life. They would do that because stupidity leads to a happy life (as in letting us evolve ourselves if we deserve, and let us create our own technology and figure things out by ourselves, because either way we weren't them, so we weren't worthy of their teachings. It's an identity thing.). Maybe they would do that because they weren't 100% compatible with our planet, so they couldn't actually live on our planet. But they did create us, as an attempt to leave a legacy behind in the shape of intelligence. An attempt, which worked in practice, but towards their emotional level, it failed.
     
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