Covid-19 vaccination

Level 12
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
652
@GhostWolf could you give some references for the claims your making? Namely that masks are ineffective, Fauci's leaked emails proving he doesn't believe his public statements, WHO saying not to use masks, and doctors getting censored. Also, I think it's worth acknowledging that yes, many organization did double-takes on statements they gave. A part of science is updating your opinion based on new information.


@maddeem

1: That COVID Deaths are over-evaluated due to false positive
tests for the virus –
This is describing problems there were in the initial wake of the virus, this isn't really relevant now with the rapid tests. The link gives a myriad of reasons for this too, it wasn't just due to false positive rate.

4: That COVID only marginally affects the youth -
Long-covid is happening even amonst youth, so while the death rate is marginal among youth, multi-year long disability is not something you can just dismiss. There are fates worse than death, and honestly my heart goes out to anyone with long-covid because that sounds so miserable.

9: That mRNA Vaccines have a chance of causing Heart
Inflammation -
As does Covid. Most vaccines have very good safety profiles. next, the amount of mRNA (which is already an extremely benign substance) in this vaccine is very small, on the order of micrograms. most of that mRNA won't even get translated into protein. the very small amount that will, will be made into the "spike" protein of CoV, which will, somewhat surprisingly, raise an immune response. You'll get a polyclonal antibody response.

Anyway, the only theoretical risk is if the epitope (the binding site of the virus; but importantly, kind of like a 3d shape the antibody is attracted to) has structural similarity to an important protein in the body. then you'd have some cross-reactivity/immunogenicity. i think that's very unlikely and the risk/benefit is clearly in not having covid vs. a one in a million autoimmunity event.

16: That Adverse Reactions and Deaths due to the Vaccine are
underreported
If you are familiar with VAERS, you would know that reporting for side effects can be done by literally anyone. Sure, the rates are underreported but for any of the serious side effects, I'm fairly certain the rates are fairly accurate. Especially for death lol.

@Amigoltu
Speaking seriously, nobody is buying these boogie-man stories about the supposed "horror" of this "disease". If people do vaccinate, it's only to get various restrictions alleviated.

..long covid sounds awful. Have you not heard about this yet?


sorry for reply format, not trying to waste too much time on this thread. (=
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
could you give some references for the claims your making? Namely that masks are ineffective, Fauci's leaked emails proving he doesn't believe his public statements, WHO saying not to use masks, and doctors getting censored.
On Fauci's e-mails:
Have fun (there's a .pdf there).

On masks:

On doctors being censored:

Using the internet can do wonders.
But maybe GhostWolf will give you a more specific answer.
Also, you haven't provided any references.
 
Level 12
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
652
@fauci
The writer is not even trying to hide their slant. They preface their interpretation of each screenshot, then give it. The skewed readings convince me that the writer and I are living in separate realities. i.e;

Preface: "Fauci states that asymptomatic people can’t spread the virus, which is what my guests (and I) have been saying from the start. In other words, masks are useless. (Which we’ve known all along.)"

Fauci's Email: "most transmission occur from someone who is symptomatic"

& you realize these were early 2020, right? When very little data existed on the topic. Let me reiterate that "A part of science is updating your opinion based on new information."

@masks

So, first you linked a CNN article. The WHO page it references says nothing of the sort, maybe you can use the wayback machine on this?

Second, you link a WHO page affirming what I just said. Third, the linked references for their “articles” point back to their site. Thus, their sourcing is inadequate if not non-existent. For example, “thevaccinereaction.org/2021/03/severe-reactions-to-covid-19-vaccine-close-schools-in-michigan-ohio-and-new-york.” Another example includes “Courts in Spain Order Forced COVID-19 Vaccination of Incapacitated Nursing Home Residents,” which links back to their site and offers innuendo without evidence of their being a problem with the COVID vaccine.

The fourth, a fact-checking site that literally says "There is no evidence that the WHO stated that there is no longer a need to wear a mask outside of a hospital setting. The screen grab shows an article published by a website that has previously published misinformation."

r u high bruh? I don't mean to detract from the content..but damn


@censorship

2: Being fired != censorship..that's what we like to call "reaching"
1&3: So, this IS an example of censorship. Let's examine why. Well, they said hydroxycloroquine C U R E S covid. Are you going to tell me in 2021 you believe its an effective treatment? Or have the anti-vaxxers jumped ship to Ivermectin now? The data on both HCQ & Ivermectin is clear, it is neither treatment nor cure. https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/hydroxychloroquine-randomized-data.php


The funny thing is, when I link actual LITERATURE on these topics, I'm told that I'm a news-watching sheep. But I haven't watched news on TV in years. I mean, who younger than 30 does? I find it painfully ironic that the camp that tells me I'm a news pleb also happens to link primarily news station articles, including from political pundits like Tucker Fucking Carlson.


bonus sauce - post from Martin Shkreli (from prison):

it's very hard to envision a scenario where the mRNA vaccines are unsafe. first, most vaccines have very good safety profiles. next, the amount of mRNA (which is already an extremely benign substance) in this vaccine is very small, on the order of micrograms. most of that mRNA won't even get translated into protein. the very small amount that will, will be made into the "spike" protein of CoV, which will, somewhat surprisingly, raise an immune response. You'll get a polyclonal antibody response. Anyway, the only theoretical risk is if the epitope (the binding site of the virus; but importantly, kind of like a 3d shape the antibody is attracted to) has structural similarity to an important protein in the body. then you'd have some cross-reactivity/immunogenicity. i think that's very unlikely and the risk/benefit is clearly in not having covid vs. a one in a million autoimmunity event. anyway, that's it. the mRNA vaccines are safe and amazingly (a little surprisingly) effective. good for MRNA and BNTX. they really rose to the occasion.
 
Last edited:

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
The writer is not even trying to hide their slant. They preface their interpretation of each screenshot, then give it. The skewed readings convince me that the writer and I are living in separate realities. i.e;
Yeah but I'd like it if there were no grayed out messages.
r u high bruh? I don't mean to detract from the content..but damn
I just showed you the inconsistency of the matter. Sources that are not there anymore which can't serve as facts anymore, contradictions between news and so on.
& you realize these were early 2020, right? When very little data existed on the topic. Let me reiterate that "A part of science is updating your opinion based on new information."
You're right:
@censorship
Just saying there are cases, doesn't matter for what. There are others unrelated to the medication you wrote about. You can do the searching yourself but yeah, most of them are either conspiracy theory related material or anti-vaccine/mask complaints.
I find it painfully ironic that the camp that tells me I'm a news pleb also happens to link primarily news station articles, including from political pundits like Tucker Fucking Carlson.
Don't worry. Each station has its own interests or that of its funding people.
bonus sauce - post from Martin Shkreli (from prison):
Is he trying to repent :D?
 
Level 29
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
5,174
@Kakerate you can go find your own sources. I am am done "arguing" with people that tell me to trust the science because it evolves in the same breath as telling me the current known science (which indeed keeps changing) came from the mouth of god and anyone who says anything else is "anti science" and "anti vaxx".
Monkeys see monkeys do.
Put on your 3 masks and take 10 jabs and shut the fuck up already about what other people do and don't give me notifications for these dumbass threads. Thank you.
 
Last edited:

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 61
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,965
Also, some poisonous/toxic substances are transparent, thus the tangibility stuff falls.
They still have a presence though. Like a sheet of glass, you can feel the glass, it has a physical presence.

Viruses are quite different due to how extremely small they are. You cannot feel them. You cannot see them. You cannot sense them. For people who do not understand the science they might be inclined to believe they do not even exist. Which is what a lot of anti-vaxers and covid sceptics say.
No sane person believes drinking bleach is healthier than a vaccine.
Yet some did... And hopefully no longer do.
 
Level 12
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
652
There's a fine line between being skeptical and being genuinely anti-vax, but that point is skewing towards anti-vax over time. It was perhaps valid to be skeptical when the vaccines first became publically available. That validity has waned since, and is now pretty silly considering the hundreds of millions of vaccine dosages administered.

At this point, I have to question the critical thinking skills of someone who thinks the vaccine is damaging your immune system

@maddeem
"Where did I get the 1/650,000 figure from? The BBC published an article on the 15th of July 2021 stating that the average death rate of individuals who have received any vaccine for COVID-19 is 1/650,000."
Lol, just lol. Correlation is not causation.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
Yet some did... And hopefully no longer do.
Some who are not sane. Most people can think beyond that.
The problem with censorship is that it makes people trust the government even less than they already do. That's why they believe conspiracy theories in the first place because most governments are either filled with corrupted or hypocritical politicians. Political figures in the USA have been caught disobeying the social distancing and mask wearing policies numerous times. Guess how these things are interpreted by citizens, as a conspiracy against their freedom.
So, if you want to do things properly, you use transparency, not parental control.
 
Level 11
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
361
The problem with censorship is that it makes people trust the government even less than they already do. That's why they believe conspiracy theories in the first place[...]
The problem is not (only) with censorship. The problem is with the forceful approach. And let's ditch the "conspiracy theory" term here - people's freedoms and rights ARE being violated, what with governments forcing people to take the jabs through coercion, fear-mongering and public ridicule. It's a fact, not some kind of "theory".

Instead of all this, those same governments could have kept the vaccines/regular testing strictly as a recommendation, not an obligation. Thus, respecting people's right to decide what is the best way of defending themselves, by themselves. (Also, govts. could have avoided breaking the law)

And this the thing. We all have our opinion on the effectiveness of the vaccines. Science itself doesn't agree on it. How about we respect each other's opinions? Vaccinated and unvaccinated have nothing to fear from one another.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 61
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,965
Thus, respecting people's right to decide what is the best way of defending themselves, by themselves. (Also, govts. could have avoided breaking the law)
Most people are not qualified to make that decision about themselves. If people could treat themselves there would not need doctors or qualified medical professionals.
Vaccinated and unvaccinated have nothing to fear from one another.
Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you cannot get Coronavirus. It just means you are less likely to and if you do your outcome is likely to be significantly better. Both people should still wear masks when going out to further reduce the likely hood of spread.
 
Last edited:
Level 10
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
177
My bro is suffering from currently long covid. He's lost 12 kilos, can barely eat, can't taste anything but sweet, struggles with a 1 mile walk and definitely can't go climbing or to the gym like he used to be able to. It's hit him hard, he's 28 and he was the type of person who doesn't usually get ill from stuff like flu. Doctors can't do anything to help and just say take paracetamol and he is no use to his boss anymore (he was a builder).

I know anecdotes from anonymous internet people just looks like some government psyop tryna trick you or made up stories to try push some media agenda but it's not; covid is absolutely real and the danger is more than just death, long covid is bad stuff and it can cause permanent lung damage. I don't know anyone who's died from it but I know a few who are messed up: my bro, my bosses wife is still exhausted a year after catching it, 2 friends who couldn't get vaxxed because they live abroad have totally lost their taste.

Current scientific advice says wear a mask, it might have said different in the past when there was less information or when governments (eg UK) lied to people so limited PPE could be directed to medical and care staff, we have more information and transparency now and they say wearing a mask is a simple, safe way to help prevent spread. Covid isn't going anywhere so you might as well protect yourself, your loved ones and your community by limiting spread and mutation.

Even a shitty thin mask is gonna stop some potentially infected water droplets from entering your mouth, lessening the viral load.

I can't speak much about censorship but we never really had free speech anyway, especially not in the UK. Free speech is an ideal for an ideal world, in this world we're not really dealing with rational, informed people picking between 2 competing theories, theres more to it than that. Information was scarce in the beginning, I remember people posting videos were about how covid lead to people just collapsing and dying in the streets, with images of police boarding people into their homes and stuff. It was just wild speculation.

Then while the UK went through a fruitless phase of containment the US claimed they were free of covid, while people died of covid. Then the UK government were caught short handed without ppe and had to scramble to get it, lying to the public saying ppe is useless. I remember there was a widespread attitude that it's just flu and we might as well get it over with, an attitude no doubt assisted by the UK government and media pushing the "herd immunity" narrative, I felt self conscious when I wore a mask in work when nobody else did or tried to discuss working from home with my manager.

Then, in the UK at least, the right wing corperate funded media has been trying to downplay covid, opposing lockdowns trying to get people back in their workplaces, trying to get the government to remove the social distancing so bars and restaurants could open again. We had places like pret and big corperate office landlords lobbying to try and get people back in the office so rents were paid and overpriced commuter breakfasts were bought. There is a financial incentive to lie to people over covid.

Identity ties in with it, antivax used to correlate with far left types but recently it's been more associated with the right wing libertarians and conservatives, a group already mistrusting of institutions, it becomes part of the identity to become covid skeptical.
Wearing a mask already felt a bit weird, at the start of the pandemic I remember myself and others mentioning how it felt a little embarrassing, now antivax groups are trying to make it seem like mask wearing is accepting a muzzle (again intersecting with the "free speech" arguement aesthetic.).

Faith in institutions has been eroded over the decades and increasingly we turn to social media or independent media for our news and information. Someone we may have built a parasocial relationship with, or perhaps they've validated your views on other topics, is going to hold more sway with you than some suit on tv, especially when parts of the media is trying to undermine that official. Money also comes into it, people who have built a living on speaking to a certain group don't want to lose that group, if they see their audience is generally anti-vax or covid skeptical they'll shape their content to be more palatable to that audience, as seen from the conservative radio hosts who got vaccinated but then went on the preach anti-vax to their listeners. Another financial incentive to lie to people over covid and other stuff.

Free speech is an ideal, something we don't actually have and maybe never will have. We can't yell fire in a busy building, we can't threaten people, we can't bully people in the workplace over certain characteristics (thankfully) and in the UK we can't say a buncha stuff about the Queen lol. Futhermore our lives are at least 1/3 dominated by bosses, we might have free speech protected against the government but it won't protect us against bosses. Certain things, totally legal to say, will get you fired from work, especially if you've worked there less than 2 years. If you try to encourage unionising or talk about wages there's a chance your boss will find some excuse to let you go, maybe some shit about not fitting in with the culture. Then outside of work you spend time in spaces owned by other private individuals, maybe a pub, you can legally say "this beer tastes like piss" and the landlord can legally ban you from coming again. Maybe a guest comes into your house or business, which you've invested time, money and effort in, and they start saying a buncha stuff you don't like, you're within your rights to ask them to stop or leave. Maybe a forum where you post a buncha stuff the site owners/moderates disagree with and they tell you not to post it again.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
I remember people posting videos were about how covid lead to people just collapsing and dying in the streets, with images of police boarding people into their homes and stuff. It was just wild speculation.
Actually, part of that was real in Wuhan in the beginning since the impact of the virus was unknown. Many of the syncopes seen in the videos were psychogenic or unrelated to COVID-19 but law enforcement and people did strange things out of fear to people and neighbours like barricading and hoarding.
There is a financial incentive to lie to people over covid.
As there is a downside of lockdowns and social distancing ruining businesses.
Identity ties in with it, antivax used to correlate with far left types but recently it's been more associated with the right wing libertarians and conservatives, a group already mistrusting of institutions, it becomes part of the identity to become covid skeptical.
Depends on what part of the left spectrum you're referring to. Same goes for the right side. Anarchists are against everything while the totalitarian left may use any means to subjugate its people, that includes lockdowns and fear monger policies. There is no right or left side as a general anti- or provaccination political spectrum. It's dependent on many things. Conservatives are usually more individual centered when it comes to governmental policies. They want more power to the nation/people than for the government. So, while on the right, more centered between authoritarianism and liberalism. Liberals are all about choosing and free will but far from anarchism. They keep a balance between anarchism and authoritarianism, basically more freedom but under democracy. Socialists are post-liberals, farther to the left towards the authoritarian side. Nowadays, people put the right wing spectrum in one group which is wrong. There's a difference between conservatives leaning towards liberalism and ultranationalists leaning towards authoritarianism.

The point is, there's no real democracy in regards to the vaccine mandates. It's social authoritarianism. If you refuse vaccination you lose certain rights which is unconstitutional in many countries.
So again, vaccination should not be forced but proper action should be taken for people to become vaccine friendly. Basically, medical education is required which is not done in schools. Other type of "education" is done instead that primes over what actually matters.
Wearing a mask already felt a bit weird, at the start of the pandemic I remember myself and others mentioning how it felt a little embarrassing, now antivax groups are trying to make it seem like mask wearing is accepting a muzzle (again intersecting with the "free speech" arguement aesthetic.).
No. Actually, masks and things like toilet paper were almost not to be found anymore during the inception and first few to 6 months of the pandemic. Conservatives nowadays stress the fact that wearing a mask is not necessary especially outdoors when/if you and people around you are vaccinated as the idea of the vaccine should be to bring humanity back to pre-pandemic life, not continue almost the same way as during the pandemic but with the addition of getting a mandatory vaccine too.
Money also comes into it, people who have built a living on speaking to a certain group don't want to lose that group, if they see their audience is generally anti-vax or covid skeptical they'll shape their content to be more palatable to that audience, as seen from the conservative radio hosts who got vaccinated but then went on the preach anti-vax to their listeners. Another financial incentive to lie to people over covid and other stuff.
There's more money being made from the vaccines than any antivaccine commentator would gain, even all combined.
Actually, many if not most of these people you speak of get censored on most or more frequently used media platforms, so their followers are very few compared to the vaccine and mainstream media adherence groups.
Certain things, totally legal to say, will get you fired from work, especially if you've worked there less than 2 years. If you try to encourage unionising or talk about wages there's a chance your boss will find some excuse to let you go, maybe some shit about not fitting in with the culture. Then outside of work you spend time in spaces owned by other private individuals, maybe a pub, you can legally say "this beer tastes like piss" and the landlord can legally ban you from coming again. Maybe a guest comes into your house or business, which you've invested time, money and effort in, and they start saying a buncha stuff you don't like, you're within your rights to ask them to stop or leave. Maybe a forum where you post a buncha stuff the site owners/moderates disagree with and they tell you not to post it again.
The private and the public sectors are two divergent things. It's one thing to get banned from one-two-few-some pubs and another to get banned from the whole public domain. So, yeah, some private businesses might demand you to be vaccinated, even wear a mask too on top of that but having public spaces require you to be vaccinated so you can have access in when you may be taking protection measures like sanitation, mask and gloves wearing is just like becoming a persona non grata all of a sudden while not doing anyone any real harm. I mean, yeah, if you go on just touching random things without any sanitation, coughing around in crowded public spaces with no mask and whatnot, then something should be done against you during a pandemic or alert state although that might be debatable especially if you'd be vaccinated. Simple fines work for most working people and they might quickly fix their attitude but when you go enforcement mode on them, their attitude will get rebellious.
 
Level 11
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
361
Most people are not qualified to make that decision about themselves. If people could treat themselves there would not need doctors or qualified medical professionals.
First of all, people have a right to decide what's done/not done with their body. Medical experts can only make examinations (with person's written consent) and give recommendations. Under no circumstances, can any kind of "treatment" be forced on a person.

Secondly, people know their own body and most of them have experience dealing with upper respiratory diseases and aren't, exactly, clueless in the topic. Everyone knows their own body best.

Lastly, most people today have access to internet and other sources of information. And, when we are talking about experimental, questionable-effectiveness vaccines for a disease with 99% survival rate (and even science doesn't agree on whether these vaccines should be taken by anyone other than risk-groups), it is maybe best, that people would educate themselves and make their own choice. Both ways include risks.

Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you cannot get Coronavirus.
According to the idea, at least, vaccinated people either don't get sick, or get sick very mildly. Thus, again, vaccinated and unvaccinated have nothing to fear from one another.

Both people should still wear masks when going out to further reduce the likely hood of spread.
Wearing masks outdoors gives exactly zero advantages. Indoors? Debatable. Especially considering, that if someone's really afraid of this disease, they can wear FFP2/3 respirators everywhere. Would be more sensible than forcing entire society wear masks, that, in most cases, only give them bad breath.


@Oliver
Free speech is something we absolutely do have. The very fact, that we can freely debate on this topic, is proof enough. Ironic, that you'd claim otherwise on this very thread :D (Not to mention, that the entire "Medivh's Tower" section is next door :) )
 
Last edited:

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 61
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,965
Under no circumstances, can any kind of "treatment" be forced on a person.
Treatment can be forced on a person if they are not of sound mind, since they are unable to give their consent.
Secondly, people know their own body and most of them have experience dealing with upper respiratory diseases and aren't, exactly, clueless in the topic.
You have proof of this? Considering most people in the world do not even take highschool biology and do not die of "upper respiratory diseases" I highly doubt even a small percentage of the population has experience with them.
Everyone knows their own body best.
They do? Then why do people die all the time of underlying conditions they were unaware of?
Lastly, most people today have access to internet and other sources of information.
*And misinformation. Anyone can write any nonsense on the internet.
And, when we are talking about experimental, questionable-effectiveness vaccines
Their effectiveness is not that questionable. There is strong statistical evidence they are working. Or at least some of them are...
for a disease with 99% survival rate
Proof? Also what about long term underlying health conditions it causes?
it is maybe best, that people would educate themselves and make their own choice.
As long as misinformation is removed then that is ideally how it should be. However due to antivax movements, trolls and other people posting misinformation it is very easy for people to come to an incorrectly made decision which can potentially harm their health and the health of others around them. This is why it is important that websites actively remove such misinformation about the vaccines and the virus so that people know how serious the virus is and that vaccines might help protect them from it, either by reducing the chance they catch the virus to begin with, or by improving the chances of their recovery if they do.
Wearing masks outdoors gives exactly zero advantages.
If by yourself or with people in your protection bubble, then yes. If in a crowded space then masks do give protection by reducing the chance that the virus enters your respiratory system, especially if using a high grade medical mask.
Indoors? Debatable.
Indoors it especially helps due to generally being more crowded.
Would be more sensible than forcing entire society wear masks, that, in most cases, only give them bad breath.
If everyone wore the masks from the start then they would not need to anymore because Coronavirus would be history. Even vaccines would not be needed. Again this is proof why people are not educated enough to make decisions about their own health and will happily risk it due to their ignorance.

While cases are rising in an area, everyone should wear masks. When there are practically no cases in an area only then should people stop wearing masks. Half fixing the problem by not everyone wearing masks while there are still a significant number of cases is not fixing it, and if anything is making it worse as it encourages new variants to form which vaccines might not be as effective against.
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
153
I got the vaccine so I wouldn't spread it to the old people who have a much higher death rate from it.

But seriously this virus has become so political, heck it was political on day one. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now they will still talking about this dang virus!
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
Treatment can be forced on a person if they are not of sound mind, since they are unable to give their consent.
I think, the argument you're looking for is how authorities take action against things like tuberculosis, where the infected are basically forced to be quarantined.
 
Level 10
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
177
Project veritas is a well known bullshit propagator. I gave it benefit of the doubt by trying to find other articles discussing this but they link back to the PV piece and looking closer there is apparently no ER doctor in US dept Health and Human services Arizona called Maria Gonzales, they appear to have just made people up. CCP tier tactics. This isn't the first time Veritas have made stuff up for a story, they are notoriously unreliable.

To actually discuss the content in the article: the narrative it's trying to push is that the government claim that the vaccine is without side effects and that, more broadly, the government/institutions are unreliable.
Dr. Gonzales: “They [government] are not reporting [adverse COVID vaccine side effects]…They want to shove it under the mat.”
This is not true, covid vaccine side effects are at this point widely discussed and increasingly documented. For a time the AZ vaccine was put on hold for fears of blood clots in several countries, it was later given the greenlight by those countries after being determined safe. The vaccines do have side effects, that is well communicated, but my especially in the UK (I'm aware the article is the US though). If you've been for a vaccine you'll have seen the paper work, the volunteers and the medical professional administrating the jab giving you information, then the wait for immediate side effects then the leaflet you take home with further information.

The Vaccines do also save lives (look at infection rates compared to death rates for the earlier covid spikes and the current covid spike we're in). Death rate is way down mostly because of the vaccine. Even if 1 of 2 people develop complications it will have saved 1000s more. Blood clot risk greater after Covid infection than after vaccination
If you have issues with using the Guardian but non using veritas then it's not worth continuing any discussion here.

A further aim of Veritas is to further propagate people's lack of trust in the government and insitutions to agitate for far right political change. A common theme in James O'Keefe III's career. Look at this quote from the article.
“It’s a shame they [government] are not treating people [with COVID] like they're supposed to, like they should. I think they want people to die.”

Please don't let yourself be deceived by these liars and riled up by this brain poison. They are trying to play you to back their agenda. I don't trust the government but I trust these ghouls (Breitbart, Bannon, Erik Prince, James O'Keefe etc) even less.

Just to be clear I an not saying that vaccines are without side effects but I am saying it's far safer than risking covid, and covid is now here to stay at least for the forseeable.
 
Level 21
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
929
These vaccines aren't FDA approved.
TL;DR american medical system is insane and the FDA moves at a glacial pace, never approving anything until everyone who needed it has already died

seriously, guys, get the fucking vaccine. the virus will survive as long as idiots provide themselves as a breeding ground for it.
 
Last edited:
Level 11
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
361
Treatment can be forced on a person if they are not of sound mind, since they are unable to give their consent.
It cannot be forced. Legally, in such case, a family member gives the consent.
You have proof of this? Considering most people in the world do not even take highschool biology and do not die of "upper respiratory diseases" I highly doubt even a small percentage of the population has experience with them.
Everyone has gone through upper respiratory diseases in their lives. As did their parents and grandparents. In most cases, people don't even go to a hospital, as most cases do not require hospitalization. Newsflash - you don't need highschool classes to acquire knowledge.

They do? Then why do people die all the time of underlying conditions they were unaware of?
People are unaware of the fact they have a cold?

*And misinformation. Anyone can write any nonsense on the internet.
Indeed. Even the so called "reputable" sources. Which is why it is important to explore multiple perspectives and make your own opinion, instead of blindly believing either side.

Their effectiveness is not that questionable. There is strong statistical evidence they are working. Or at least some of them are...
Oh yes?

Also, should we talk about Israel? One of the most vaccinated areas in the world, that still has high disease rates?
Also, should we talk about how their effectiveness "changed" from completely protecting you, to now just "lessening the symptoms" or giving you a "milder form" of the disease?
Also, should we talk about the fact, that the vaccines are experimental, and no one knows their long-term side effects, or even how long the immunity lasts?
Also, should we talk about the fact, that corona viruses mutate constantly, and it's questionable whether vaccinations from them aren't futile, in general?

Proof? Also what about long term underlying health conditions it causes?
I provided sources about the high survival rate earlier in this thread.

As long as misinformation is removed then that is ideally how it should be. However due to antivax movements, trolls and other people posting misinformation it is very easy for people to come to an incorrectly made decision which can potentially harm their health and the health of others around them. This is why it is important that websites actively remove such misinformation about the vaccines and the virus so that people know how serious the virus is and that vaccines might help protect them from it, either by reducing the chance they catch the virus to begin with, or by improving the chances of their recovery if they do.
In that case, independent research would be impossible. Finding the truth would be impossible. How do you know what is "misinformation" and what is not, when there's no consensus even among the experts? Maybe you just want to silence those, that YOU disagree with?


If by yourself or with people in your protection bubble, then yes. If in a crowded space then masks do give protection by reducing the chance that the virus enters your respiratory system, especially if using a high grade medical mask.
And such crowded environments can only be found in some large outdoors events, like concerts, etc.

Also, considering, that most people get through this disease very easily (and you are speaking up for vaccines anyways), maybe it would be better to let people catch this virus? Defeat it, get most of the population immunized and done! If we keep running from it, it will never go away. Even now, this disease is becoming seasonal, just like flu (btw, flu just magically disappeared these 2 years)

If someone's really afraid of this virus, again, they can wear the FFP2/3 type respirators.

TL;DR american medical system is insane and the FDA moves at a glacial pace, never approving anything until everyone who needed it has already died

seriously, guys, get the fucking vaccine. the virus will survive as long as idiots provide themselves as a breeding ground for it.
Except the vast majority can naturally develop immunity, which, according to some sources, is over x10 more effective than vaccine-created immunity. So thanks, but no thanks. Keep your needles to yourself. Also, learn to respect people, their opinions and choices. World does not revolve around you, young man.
 
Last edited:
Level 11
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
361
@deepstrasz
Every person has a right to decide what is done, or not done, with his/her body. Nobody has a right to tell others what sort of preventive measures they should or shouldn't take.

If you are afraid of this disease, go take the needle. Wear a respirator if you are super afraid. That's it. Done. You've nothing to fear. Unless, of course, you don't trust the vaccine...
 
Last edited:

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 61
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,965
It cannot be forced. Legally, in such case, a family member gives the consent.
Which is still someone else forcing treatment. If no family members exist then it might not be family.
Everyone has gone through upper respiratory diseases in their lives. As did their parents and grandparents. In most cases, people don't even go to a hospital, as most cases do not require hospitalization. Newsflash - you don't need highschool classes to acquire knowledge.
Not with this strain. And if you did before chances are you are living in some developing country.
People are unaware of the fact they have a cold?
Yes many people are. Not like that has much to do with this topic since common colds are relatively harmless compared with COVID.

Underlying health conditions can be life threatening and many times result in death before they are even discovered. There are a lot of heat conditions that fit this. One day person can be seemingly healthy, next dead due to the condition. COIVID is much more likely to kill such people, especially without a vaccine.
Indeed. Even the so called "reputable" sources. Which is why it is important to explore multiple perspectives and make your own opinion, instead of blindly believing either side.
Yes however generally academics are much more credible than some random people who are likely trolls. After all, they spent their lives in related subjects rather than someone who might not even have a highschool qualification.
Article is off-topic and nothing to do with getting vaccines. It is basically saying that if you survived the real COVID you were less likely to get the delta variant or be reinfected.

The vaccine is entirely about first infection risks, not second or later infections. I would hope that if you were lucky enough to survive COVID the first time that your body would be more prepared for subsequent reinfections than if you took something harmless to train it to respond to COVID for your first infection.
Also, should we talk about Israel? One of the most vaccinated areas in the world, that still has high disease rates?
What about disease related deaths or illnesses?
Also, should we talk about how their effectiveness "changed" from completely protecting you, to now just "lessening the symptoms" or giving you a "milder form" of the disease?
For a disease that is quite often fatal, any sort of improvement is huge.
Also, should we talk about the fact, that the vaccines are experimental, and no one knows their long-term side effects, or even how long the immunity lasts?
Should we talk about COVID and the fact it is often lethal or how long the long term complications last for survivors? Desperate times call for desperate measures and hopefully any long term issues, if any, can be learned from to better prepare humanity for the inevitable time such pandemic occurs again.

I have had both vaccinations and so far, feel fine.
Also, should we talk about the fact, that corona viruses mutate constantly, and it's questionable whether vaccinations from them aren't futile, in general?
Should we talk about the alternative? Letting people, who could have been saved, die? Not really a topic anyone wants to discuss...
I provided sources about the high survival rate earlier in this thread.
In that case you would have no issue providing the articles again? Or at least a link to the post?!
In that case, independent research would be impossible. Finding the truth would be impossible. How do you know what is "misinformation" and what is not, when there's no consensus even among the experts? Maybe you just want to silence those, that YOU disagree with?
Which is why information has to be acquired from trusted sources and always reasoned with using your own knowledge. Even scientific papers need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
And such crowded environments can only be found in some large outdoors events, like concerts, etc.
Or most cities. Where space is limited and population density is very high.
Also, considering, that most people get through this disease very easily (and you are speaking up for vaccines anyways), maybe it would be better to let people catch this virus? Defeat it, get most of the population immunized and done! If we keep running from it, it will never go away. Even now, this disease is becoming seasonal, just like flu (btw, flu just magically disappeared these 2 years)
Thinking COVID is seasonal flu is foolish. It is not at all related to it, other than also being a virus. Where as our bodies have strong immunity to much less dangerous seasonal flu, they do not to COVID.

Every time someone catches COVID there is a chance for it to mutate. Ideally the best cure is to get rid of it once and for all.

Flu did not magically disappear 2 years ago. It was largely eliminated by how effective the COVID procedures were. The fact COVID is still a large problem goes to show how much worse it is than a normal flu.
If someone's really afraid of this virus, again, they can wear the FFP2/3 type respirators.
The problem is that people are not afraid. Almost every day people who thought that COVID was nothing end up regretting that choice on their death bed. At least the vaccines give you some level of protection for your first infection which is a huge improvement over none.
Except the vast majority can naturally develop immunity, which, according to some sources, is over x10 more effective than vaccine-created immunity.
Except the people who die on their first infection. Since then they cannot develop slightly better immunity for subsequent infections than people who had 2 doses of the vaccine on their first infection.

Not really comparable. I cannot deny that natural immunity is better but the vaccine is all about the first infection, not subsequent infections. Also people with the vaccine will likely have the same or better immunity for subsequent infections anyway (was not the scope of the paper according to the abstract?).
Every person has a right to decide what is done, or not done, with his/her body. Nobody has a right to tell others what sort of preventive measures they should or shouldn't take.
Except if your under age in which case your parents decide for you in many cases. In fact there are legal issues right now that some smart kids want the vaccine but their parents are fighting it.

If you are afraid of this disease, go take the needle. Wear a respirator if you are super afraid. That's it. Done. You've nothing to fear. Unless, of course, you don't trust the vaccine...
That is what we have all done. But this is something everyone must do if we are to win against COVID.
 
Level 16
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
672
Yes however generally academics are much more credible than some random people who are likely trolls. After all, they spent their lives in related subjects rather than someone who might not even have a highschool qualification.
Example: Carrière-sloper Lubach slaat weer toe: Ann Vossen valt door de mand bij Jinek
Also, academics who hold a different opinion about COVID are afraid of speaking up, because they will get cancelled and lose their job.

For a disease that is quite often fatal

Should we talk about COVID and the fact it is often lethal

I have had both vaccinations and so far, feel fine.
Also, 'both' implies you only need two, we both know that's not true. And it won't stop at the third 'booster' shot either.

Should we talk about the alternative?
Yes let's talk about medicine.
Have you ever stopped to think about why the vaccines are pushed while medicine like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are now considered taboo?

Ideally the best cure is to get rid of it once and for all.

But this is something everyone must do if we are to win against COVID.
You cannot 'win' against COVID, it's mathematically impossible.

The fact COVID is still a large problem goes to show how...
incompetent our governments are at handling a crisis situation.

In fact there are legal issues right now that some smart kids want the vaccine but their parents are fighting it.
'Smart' kids because they have high IQ or because they happen to agree with your point of view? I'm guessing the latter.
These kids only want the vaccine because they want to visit their grandparents and are afraid of infecting them, and/or they have been indoctrinated by government propaganda.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 61
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,965
incompetent our governments are at handling a crisis situation.
A lot of people are incompetent. With them not caring about guide lines and even actively denying COVID exists.
'Smart' kids because they have high IQ or because they happen to agree with your point of view?
Because they understand the risks of COVID and take correct precautions like wearing masks in public, unlike their parents who try to believe COVID does not exist.
been indoctrinated by government propaganda.
Is it propaganda? Or are there facts behind it? The fact most developed governments are pushing it I would tend to believe it is more facts than propaganda.
 
Level 16
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
672
A lot of people are incompetent. With them not caring about guide lines and even actively denying COVID exists.
Yes, it's the people's fault that we're still in this mess almost two years later, not the government! Meanwhile we're also dealing with a climate crisis, a housing crisis, even a 'stikstof' crisis. I'm starting to think the government actually loves crises when they start inventing them (referring to the stikstof crisis here, not COVID).
Never waste a good crisis!

Because they understand the risks of COVID and take correct precautions like wearing masks in public, unlike their parents who try to believe COVID does not exist.
A person blindly doing what everyone else is doing, and/or doing what the government tells them to do, and believing everything they are told to be the unquestionable truth, seems to me like an indication that this person is lacking critical thinking skills, a quality without which I wouldn't say you could be qualified as being 'smart'.
The world also isn't so black-and-white, just because you're against the COVID measures for whatever reason, doesn't mean you don't believe COVID exists. There are probably more people who believe COVID exists but disagree with the measures, than people who don't believe COVID exists.

Is it propaganda? Or are there facts behind it? The fact most developed governments are pushing it I would tend to believe it is more facts than propaganda.
Yes there are obviously facts behind it. Doesn't mean it's not propaganda though.
Ad hominem: Conspiracy theorist, 'wappie', covid denier, etc.
Ad nauseam: "The vaccine is the only thing that will get us out of this crisis", "Only together we can defeat COVID".
Agenda setting: News about COVID every. Single. Day. Even in between waves when we have a low amount of positive tests (which are also reported daily).
Appeal to authority: COVID news articles always referencing RIVM, OMT, experts.
Appeal to fear: If you don't take the vaccine, your grandparents will die / the hospitals will get overloaded / etc.
Appeal to prejudice: Redirects to 'appeal to fear' on wikipedia, lol.
That's only the techniques starting with 'A', I'm not gonna bother giving examples for all of them, you get the point.
 
Level 20
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
1,616
For me, it is incredibly astonishing and shocking when I see people voluntarily and consistently posting false information about COVID, fear-mongering and denying virologists, scientists and doctors related to this issue. Denying the people who dedicate themselves to their specific areas for decades, I find it outrageous. These ignorants think they know more than everyone, with what goal, I ask? What is their goal? Their right to choose?
If they don't want the vaccine, then I couldn't care less about them, let them die slowly and alone, but then when they're feeling bad they want medical attention, right? I find that hypocrites and narcissitic.
These "unvaccinated and anti-vaxxer" people don't have the right to interfere with others that are doing the greater good.
There's been a case on TV, in my country, about a luso descendant whose family died because they read false information of the vaccines and the virus, deciding not to take the vaccine.
Both the people and the government are at fault for incompetence and not taking the appropriate measures against COVID.
I took pfizer. On the 2nd dose I had small fever for 2 days.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
If they don't want the vaccine, then I couldn't care less about them, let them die slowly and alone, but then when they're feeling bad they want medical attention, right? I find that hypocrites and narcissitic.
They could be charged more if hospitalized.
A what?
I took pfizer. On the 2nd dose I had small fever for 2 days.
My arm still hurts, damn it.
 
Level 45
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
1,889
If they don't want the vaccine, then I couldn't care less about them, let them die slowly and alone, but then when they're feeling bad they want medical attention, right? I find that hypocrites and narcissitic.
These "unvaccinated and anti-vaxxer" people don't have the right to interfere with others that are doing the greater good.
I don't know about your country, but mine is doing everything to force the people to vaccinate. I don't get it, in 2020, everyone was talking about the vaccines, that 70% of vaccinated population is enough, then why force people to take vaccines? Why make us 30% "Anti-vaxxers" or "Bad for the environment"?
If someone feels like he doesn't need to take the vaccine why does he need to bear a consequences, like losing his job, not able to go to a grocery store?
I personally respect all the measures like wearing mask everywhere, social distance...But I don't feel like I should take a vaccine. Why force me to do it? Why separate the people even more? The people are separated enough, they don't need another stupid division.
 
Level 20
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
1,616
Someone who possesses portuguese ancestry whose ancestors emigrated to another country.
My arm still hurts, damn it.
FeelsBadMan ;d

I don't know about your country, but mine is doing everything to force the people to vaccinate. I don't get it, in 2020, everyone was talking about the vaccines, that 70% of vaccinated population is enough, then why force people to take vaccines? Why make us 30% "Anti-vaxxers" or "Bad for the environment"?
If someone feels like he doesn't need to take the vaccine why does he need to bear a consequences, like losing his job, not able to go to a grocery store?
I personally respect all the measures like wearing mask everywhere, social distance...But I don't feel like I should take a vaccine. Why force me to do it? Why separate the people even more? The people are separated enough, they don't need another stupid division.
In my country, I think it had a meta of at least 80%. Currently it is at 89%, I don't think the people here are obligated anymore to be vaccined.

Regarding your country, I have no clue why they're doing that, nor the reasons behind, but from what I can tell, that's rather crazy.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855
I don't know about your country, but mine is doing everything to force the people to vaccinate. I don't get it, in 2020, everyone was talking about the vaccines, that 70% of vaccinated population is enough, then why force people to take vaccines? Why make us 30% "Anti-vaxxers" or "Bad for the environment"?
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 61
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,965
If someone feels like he doesn't need to take the vaccine why does he need to bear a consequences, like losing his job, not able to go to a grocery store?
Because they are putting others at risks. As already discussed in this thread the vaccine is not a cure. It is effective at stopping you from dying and it greatly improves your chances of making a good recovery on your first exposure to real COVID, but you can still get it and even spread it if exposed to it enough.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855


Someone who possesses portuguese ancestry whose ancestors emigrated to another country.
Actually... I first read it with an "i" so that's why I didn't really understand it.
 
Last edited:
Level 12
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
652
Third world countries are looking at the US and wondering why we have so many ignorant people. Denying a vaccine that many of them wish they had access to. Now thats privilege. That people with completely treatable conditions, like appendicitis and heart attacks, have had to die because idiots refuse to protect themselves from a virus and end up taking ICU rooms disgusts me.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855

 
Level 10
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
347
Since its known that vaccination doesnt reduce the spread of the virus, there is no moral obligation to take the jab as its only affecting your own safety. Even if it was 100% effective, you cant make something mandatory as long as its in experimental stage.
Also looking at the statistics not only jabs didnt stop the pandemic ( which was a monumental lie someone should be held aaccountable for), even the statement that vaccines reduced the number of deaths is highly debatable.

Singapore 82.5% vaccinated, yet the 4th wave is booming.

Lets talk about the side effects as well. 3 of my cousin's girlfriends relatives died from the vaccines, a college of my friend, 2 neighbours of another friend died as well and I heard about several others. Even my grandma (the only one from my family who took it) has very severe side effects from the day of the vaccination and she is basically unable to do her daily routine anymore. Was perfetly healthy before tho.
When people talk about these casualties on the internet they are often accused of making these things up. But how ridiculous is that,why would I make such things up? I get that people may lie about their IQ or d*ck size or whatever but there is absolutely no insentive making up vaccine casualties.
Even tho the casualties are underreported, due to the bothersome reporting system, lack of a reporting system or just not accepting casualties that happen weeks after the jab, there are hundreds or thousands (I think its around 16,000 onVAERS,US) reported cases in each country. I heard about two studies who estimate the percentage of reported casualities, one saying its 10%, the other says its only around 1%...

Well, If you wish to gather info from google, the same biased google who bans discussion about vaccines on Youtube, do you realy expect them to not hide Covid vaccine critiquing content? ( thats why something like Duckduckgo should be used instead)

I dont mind people taking mRna vaccines, or injecting formaldehyde into themselves or whatever. Its their body, their right to do so, but discriminating people who do otherwise is not okay.
 
Level 20
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
1,616
It's also known that vaccines don't kill people. Just because some vaccinated people die doesn't mean it was due to the vaccine, unless for some reason the doctors showed you the death report for the cause of death, which i find it very unlikely.
Since its known that vaccination doesnt reduce the spread of the virus, there is no moral obligation to take the jab as its only affecting your own safety. Even if it was 100% effective, you cant make something mandatory as long as its in experimental stage.
Also looking at the statistics not only jabs didnt stop the pandemic ( which was a monumental lie someone should be held aaccountable for), even the statement that vaccines reduced the number of deaths is highly debatable.

Singapore 82.5% vaccinated, yet the 4th wave is booming.
Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of death, but doesn't reduce the spread of the virus. You said the latter yourself, so I don't understand why you think there's a contradiction. Vaccines don't make you immune to dying for other causes...
Taking the vaccine isn't for my own safety, it is for mine and the people around me, because you know, we live a society.
Lets talk about the side effects as well. 3 of my cousin's girlfriends relatives died from the vaccines, a college of my friend, 2 neighbours of another friend died as well and I heard about several others. Even my grandma (the only one from my family who took it) has very severe side effects from the day of the vaccination and she is basically unable to do her daily routine anymore. Was perfetly healthy before tho.
When people talk about these casualties on the internet they are often accused of making these things up. But how ridiculous is that,why would I make such things up? I get that people may lie about their IQ or d*ck size or whatever but there is absolutely no insentive making up vaccine casualties.
Even tho the casualties are underreported, due to the bothersome reporting system, lack of a reporting system or just not accepting casualties that happen weeks after the jab, there are hundreds or thousands (I think its around 16,000 onVAERS,US) reported cases in each country. I heard about two studies who estimate the percentage of reported casualities, one saying its 10%, the other says its only around 1%...
You're not making up, but what you're doing is hiding the fact that there's not just 1 vaccine for COVID19, there's several, specially for different ages of people, and that's important regarding the side effects.
Well, If you wish to gather info from google, the same biased google who bans discussion about vaccines on Youtube, do you realy expect them to not hide Covid vaccine critiquing content? ( thats why something like Duckduckgo should be used instead)
I would like to see the specifics on who is being banned about this. There's a fine line between criticising COVID vaccine measures and totally spreading misinformation.
I dont mind people taking mRna vaccines, or injecting formaldehyde into themselves or whatever. Its their body, their right to do so, but discriminating people who do otherwise is not okay.
You're right, but they're still stupid.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,855


 
Level 10
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
347
It's also known that vaccines don't kill people. Just because some vaccinated people die doesn't mean it was due to the vaccine, unless for some reason the doctors showed you the death report for the cause of death, which i find it very unlikely.

Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of death, but doesn't reduce the spread of the virus. You said the latter yourself, so I don't understand why you think there's a contradiction. Vaccines don't make you immune to dying for other causes...
Taking the vaccine isn't for my own safety, it is for mine and the people around me, because you know, we live a society.

You're not making up, but what you're doing is hiding the fact that there's not just 1 vaccine for COVID19, there's several, specially for different ages of people, and that's important regarding the side effects.

I would like to see the specifics on who is being banned about this. There's a fine line between criticising COVID vaccine measures and totally spreading misinformation.

You're right, but they're still stupid.
Okay so you say even the official statistics of each country are false as there are 0 casualties.
We agree that both vaccinated and non vaccinated can spread the disease. And your point to forcing vaccines is that if I one dies it negatively affects people around you. How does that make sense? Then you also need to forbid eating sugar, riding motor cycles and also visiting a dangerous hood because you know there is a chance you die. Also, what If I'm a loner and noone cares if I die?

Yes, the type of the vaccine is definitely important since there are huge differences in the number of casualties.

Yes, youtube actively censores any debate about vaccines and covid treatments.Anything that is slightly criticizing vaccines or big pharma is deleted.
"YouTube doesn't allow content that spreads medical misinformation that contradicts local health authorities’ (LHA) or the World Health Organization’s (WHO) medical information about COVID-19."
 
Level 20
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
1,616
Okay so you say even the official statistics of each country are false as there are 0 casualties.
Official statistics of what? what casualties? Dying with the vaccine or dying FROM the vaccine? The latter isn't possible.
We agree that both vaccinated and non vaccinated can spread the disease. And your point to forcing vaccines is that if I one dies it negatively affects people around you. How does that make sense?
My point was never about dying affects people around me. Read again:
Taking the vaccine isn't for my own safety, it is for mine and the people around me, because you know, we live a society.
Then you also need to forbid eating sugar, riding motor cycles and also visiting a dangerous hood because you know there is a chance you die. Also, what If I'm a loner and noone cares if I die?
Eating sugar doesn't trigger a chance that you die. Eating too much does, if not certain death. Even so it's a stupid comparison because any food can trigger a chance that you die, even water can be toxic threatening death. It is known. The rest is refuted with the above.
Yes, youtube actively censores any debate about vaccines and covid treatments. Anything that is slightly criticizing vaccines or big pharma is deleted.
"YouTube doesn't allow content that spreads medical misinformation that contradicts local health authorities’ (LHA) or the World Health Organization’s (WHO) medical information about COVID-19."
I googled "covid debate" and it appears numerous debates, and with other key words about covid treatments.
Now let's emphasize the important part of your problem: "slightly criticizing vaccines or big pharma"
Let's see what you said youtube claims: (...) content that spreads medical misinformation that contradicts local health authorities (...)
You see the problem? Criticizing doesn't equal to spreading misinformation.
If you challenge and question about their procedures, it is just fine, but if you start with fear mongering and spread random buttockshit that you have no clue about then they have absolute the right to.
There have been families that died because they didn't want to take the vaccine, why? Because they read random shit online that a loser posted and feared the vaccines, now let that soak into your mind for a second, a minute or an hour.
 
I googled "covid debate" and it appears numerous debates, and with other key words about covid treatments.
Now let's emphasize the important part of your problem: "slightly criticizing vaccines or big pharma"
Let's see what you said youtube claims: (...) content that spreads medical misinformation that contradicts local health authorities (...)
You see the problem? Criticizing doesn't equal to spreading misinformation.
^^ This exactly, I've seen lots of people across the political spectrum criticising the amount of wealth generated by people like Big Pharma during a global pandemic in contrast to how much a lot of people have lost.

As Wrda points out there is a difference in criticising perhaps things like the role of money in vaccine distribution, or the inequality of vaccine access etc and saying blatantly false things like "the vaccine contains microchips to control you" or "the vaccine is a method of population control" etc things that are verifiably false.
 
Level 10
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
347
^^ This exactly, I've seen lots of people across the political spectrum criticising the amount of wealth generated by people like Big Pharma during a global pandemic in contrast to how much a lot of people have lost.

As Wrda points out there is a difference in criticising perhaps things like the role of money in vaccine distribution, or the inequality of vaccine access etc and saying blatantly false things like "the vaccine contains microchips to control you" or "the vaccine is a method of population control" etc things that are verifiably false.
I'm really sorry that freedom of speech works that way but you are to able make even ludicrous statements as well. Because you know if you are only able to say what is allowed to being said then its not that anymore.
Its funny how its okay to lie for big Pharma, they said vaccination of 50% will be enough to eradicate the virus. 1 vaccine will be enough, 2 vaccines will be enough, 3 vaccines will be enough and so on. Well thats at least false advertisement, a fraud. But If you would dare to point that out the video would be deleted on sight probably.
"Experts" the WHO and big pharma is objectively right always when they make contradicting statements every 2 weeks because apparently reality itself changes according to them. Not us tho.

The family of my god father is a regular, normal and happy family living in the country side. They strongly oppose those vaccines, why?
I the family of my cusins gf 3 people died right after vaccination. Do you blame them if they dont want to take it after that?
But I know you are going to assume we are so cunning that we make such things up because its a good prank or something. Or that it was just a coincidence along with all those similar reports. We all have 3 relatives dieing randomly every week so it makes sense.

Now If I wanted to make a video about this on youtube trust me it would be deleted. Darn, these evil people like me spending their freetime making things up because its too fun to be hated and ridiculed by half of the population.
 
Level 20
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
1,616
I'm really sorry that freedom of speech works that way but you are to able make even ludicrous statements as well. Because you know if you are only able to say what is allowed to being said then its not that anymore.
That's true. But then that doesn't remove the right of other people sueing others for defamation. I could accuse anyone I don't like of said accusation but that doesn't mean you don't suffer the consequences of your actions (false claims). Just because you have free speech doesn't mean you can say everything.
I've already seen a pattern that you've been doing and you still keep doing it so I'm going to point it out for later reference:
You make strawmans. In this one, nobody argued about free speech. Intentional misinformation isn't covered by law, falsely accusing people in personal ways isn't covered by law. I dare you, accuse someone with something crime related, make them sue you and then I want to see what the judge will say.
Its funny how its okay to lie for big Pharma, they said vaccination of 50% will be enough to eradicate the virus. 1 vaccine will be enough, 2 vaccines will be enough, 3 vaccines will be enough and so on. Well thats at least false advertisement, a fraud.
50% of what? Population in your country or?
I don't think you understand the scientific method and how any area of science itself evolves and updates data. Everything in science is in constant change in order to find the truth and to get accurate results. The reason the vaccine shots changed was most likely because of that, more data, more research, more results over time, thus the vaccine procedures change.
This can be said from anything. Take for example the measurement of the size of the Earth, Eratosthenes used a different method from what we use today, and guess what, his margin of error was 1% of what it really is. Does that make him a fraud and false advertisement? Obviously not, although he was "wrong", he contributed for the knowledge of humanity in great regards.
But If you would dare to point that out the video would be deleted on sight probably.
It would be deleted on sight because of an accusation with no proof. Claiming the amount of vaccine shots changed isn't enough to sustain that conclusion of being a fraud, as it would have changed of several reasons that you might have never even wanted to think about. But I covered the most logical one.
"Experts" the WHO and big pharma is objectively right always when they make contradicting statements every 2 weeks because apparently reality itself changes according to them. Not us tho.
If they're even wrong sometimes, what makes you think non-experts, who are clueless and no knowledge of the subject that takes a lot of time and dedication, are actually right? I've already covered why their procedures are subject to change, science isn't static.
The family of my god father is a regular,
Wtf is this, mafia gang style? lol
The family of my god father is a regular, normal and happy family living in the country side. They strongly oppose those vaccines, why?
I have no idea...I have several hypothesis: 1. has no clue what vaccines actually are, what they're for, what are virus, what is medicine.
2. they didn't receive a proper education.
3. they read some garbage online.
4. I don't know, possibly more.
I the family of my cusins gf 3 people died right after vaccination. Do you blame them if they dont want to take it after that?
I blame their critical thinking skills.
Premise 1: if 3 of Cousins' girlfriends take the vaccine, they die.
Premise 2: They died after vaccination.
Conclusion: Vaccines killed them.
This is a non sequitor, they simply don't follow the line of reasoning. They can have taken the vaccine and died because of something else, which is the most likely since vaccines don't actually kill people.
But I know you are going to assume we are so cunning that we make such things up because its a good prank or something. Or that it was just a coincidence along with all those similar reports. We all have 3 relatives dieing randomly every week so it makes sense.
Why do you have to post this nonsense? Who's "we all"? What's your point with this?
Now If I wanted to make a video about this on youtube trust me it would be deleted. Darn, these evil people like me spending their freetime making things up because its too fun to be hated and ridiculed by half of the population.
A video about WHAT specifically?
I don't know what "making things up" here means, but if it constitutes "virus doesn't exit", "vaccines are microships blah blah blah" and flat earth type of shit then people do deserve to be ridiculed, and specially hated in the context of vaccines because those types of people are the problem in society, they purposely spread garbage information, with fear mongering tactics that affect non-educated (skeptical) people on this subject, that happen to either die or surviving with permanent damage to themselves.
You grow what you sow. You made your bed, now sit on it.
I ask you to be skeptical, not to overstimate your abilities. I didn't take johnson & johnson vaccine because I was skeptical regarding its effects, not because vaccines are bad, instead I took pfizer.
And guess what? I was right that pfizer was actually the best vaccine out of the 3 (or 4???).
 
Last edited:
Top