Coming of the Horde 23.9

[Cthulus]

Damn, this is a fun map, very enjoyable, and is great with a full house.
I played the last version too, and I know this map is great!
5/5 Recommended. Keep it up!

 

[Own-]

IMO this game is good,i play it on bnet whenver i've some spare time!keep up the good work

 

[XX_Noob]

Okay.. everyone here seem to just say "thats a great map" well here are something that isn't that, anyway.

I played a game of this a few days ago, a few things I noticed was that the pathing was extremely horrible.


+ Map Originality, a map like this, with merged aspects of different games is a good thing.
Bugs, I didnt really spot bugs at all, this is a good factor.
Fun Factor, well, it was very plain, apperently there should be 4 or so players defending the thandol span bridges, I didn't find camping the entire game very entertaining.
-/+ Heroes, I can't really comment on it much, I played as dalaran, choose Rhonin Redhair, only problem was his ulti, seriously, mana flare? its useless if the opponents spam non-casters, and his mana bomb also sucked because he couldn't get up to the front because of the pathing.
-/+ Gameplay, I suppose the gameplay is refreshing than all the other common maps.
- Balancing, I saw stormwind getting smashed extremely easy, even though there were 2-3 alliance players down defending it, Ironforge is one big chokepoint, all yellow did was spam golems and riflemen and it didn't fall.
- Terrain, I must say, the terrain really sucked, it needs improvements.
- Pathability, it was just.. terrible.

Now, i'm not hive staff, just making a review because I like doing reviews, but this map has potential, I hope to see it get better, fix pathing, making spells like Rhonins mana bomb more useful and it will be great. But for now, I will give it 2/5, also, its version 11.3 but it still have extremely bad pathing?

 

[TheBronze]

Curious to how many games you've played. I honestly believe to accurately review any map, you need to play it more than once.

Sadly, the review you gave me is full of flaming, and not much real information or examples of complaints, You really don't need to say things like "Terrain, I must say, the terrain really sucked, it needs improvements," All you need say is "I didn't like the terrain, it could use improvement here is how: ....." But obviously you don't understand how to be a considerate and useful reviewer, despite your "experience" (or lack thereof). Still I'll handle you "review" point by point.

The balance at the moment, most people agree is very good, and if anything it slightly favors the Alliance. Stormwind falling in a only a few minutes is the result of a poor Alliance squad, not some inherent problem with ingame balance. I've defeated people (and been defeated) in less than 10 minutes in ladder games, it doesn't mean that the balance is out of whack, it just means I outplayed my opponent or got outplayed (more on this later).

Terrain is like art, it is in the eye of the beholder. If you really like the terrain on a map like DAOW or LOTSW, then you'll won't like my terrain. I don't the terrain they have. I'm not planning on changing any major aspect of it.

Your the first person to complain about pathability, honestly. Many people have given me ideas of how to improve it, but have said in general that the pathing is excellent. You just said it was terrible and gave not one instance of an issue, other than perhaps the not being able to Manabomb because you couldn't get up to the front? You can't walk through people in real life, and your not going to be able to in COTH, you'll actually need to use to some micromanagement, have you allies share control and manage troops accordingly.

And this what makes the game a challenge, melee heros are considerably more powerful than ranged heros, but using them effectively is much harder due the fact you can't walk through people. But that is by design, this game takes skill to play, it isn't a game you just jump into and every game turns out more or less the same. Blowouts happen (like you mentioned at Stormwind) because of this, the game takes skill. A skilled Horde can conquer the map against an unskilled Alliance in less than 25 minutes, and a skilled Alliance can stonewall the Horde and kill the portal in the same amount of time.

Rhonin wasn't designed for noobs. He has manashield for a reason, you use it to tank with him so you can get close enough to manabomb. Manaflare does AOE damage to all units with a manapool in an area everytime an enemy unit casts a spell. Many units (some who you think might not, like Doom Guards) have autocasted spell, and all heros are hurt by Manaflare too when any friendly unit casts a spell. Manaflare requires precise timing, and it can completely dominate enemy heros and casters in an area, doing 2.75 damage per manapoint in a large area.

Defending Dalaran against an enemy who doesn't use casters is very easy, you can slow and faeire fire you enemies, while buffing your own troops with inner fire and without the Horde having the benefits of anti-magic shield, blood lust, or any heros spells, a skilled player could hold Dalaran with ease. So yes, manaflare is dependent on the enemy casting spells, but spellcasters are an intergral part of the game, so it is a very good spell.

Anyway, thanks for the review, but it did nothing to help me. Give me some examples of the pathing issues, and I'll gladly fix them. Flame me, and you're just wasting your time and mine.

 

[kolaric]

hmm well the map is pretty balanced to this point if you get a fullhouse you often get a standoff in ironforge or infront stormwind
but the thing is that a guy named archn1 figured out that if you send an acolyte up to loardearon and kill them very fast(blitzkrieg style)you wont get that last stand that every1 in the horde hates

there are many varieties of what you caan do with this as you can take stormwind or the brigdes to prevent the enemy from sending reinforcements(altough it is still possible via teleport but thats what 6 units)so you seee just send a worker near the base you want (dont get detected anyway) and youre done-just make a suitable distraction,because it is favorable to have the city empty when you take it
as for alliance winning strategies i realy dont have any cause i mostly play horde(blackrock clan favored)over alliance
but as i have noticed the main thing that can actualy stand against the horde is a hero squad with lots of heroes and a good choke point.
thats it
wish you luck with your computer by the way..

 

[Warhunter]

Hey! I have played you map alot, but I'm not going to reveiw it, I'm not good at such things. =)

but, I really liked it, no bugs, balanced etc. 5/5.

btw.. Could you possibly try to reduce the size of the map? because it takes some time to download it threw Battle.net.

 

[kolaric]

erm dude
map file limit is 4mb
you just went over with 11.4¨!

 

[TheBronze]

Patch 1.24 for Battle.net increased the maximum map size to 8 megs.

So the map works on Battle.net.

 

[kolaric]

Patch 1.24 for Battle.net increased the maximum map size to 8 megs.

So the map works on Battle.net.

ye well the problem is that eurobattle still hasnt fixed the server for patch 24...

 

[Warhunter]

You're wrong.
I tested to host this on the Europe server, and it worked.

 

[Marshmalo]

I want to take back what I said earlier about Alleria being underpowered, shes actualy a pretty good hero, with her trueshot arua and upgraded archers she deals out alot of damage and obviously realy good for fortress defence, I've perfected my technique for playing elves now. I use hit and run tactics and rely alot on my allies melle, when the frontline melle breaks just flee then hit again asap, I've found the archers are realy good at anoying the enemy on mutiple fronts but once the enemy concentrates on quel'thalas it always seems to go down pretty fast no matter what i do.

In reply to noobs coment on the unit pathing; I always stock up on alot of teleportation scrolls, theyre realy cheep and you can use them to get your hero where ever you need him, if he starts dying just tele out to a throne, healup and tele back in. But use foresight, dont try and tele him out when your 1 HP away from death.
This isnt the kind of map you can write a review about after only playing once, stormwind can fall within five minutes or it can survive the whole game, all depends on the players.

Most of the critisism on here seems to be about making the map more like all the other ones out there, I like that COTH does things differently.

 

[kolaric]

You're wrong.
I tested to host this on the Europe server, and it worked.

its not blizzard server its eurobattle,
that means its a pvpgn server so it is not under the jurisdiction of blizzard...

 

[Warhunter]

its not blizzard server its eurobattle,
that means its a pvpgn server so it is not under the jurisdiction of blizzard...

well.. I don't care. It's still a good map, and it works at Battle.Net, so I'm happy. And he doesn't need to lower the file size.

 

[Evillizard]

Ok.. you went really off-lore with version 12.0... Lor'remar was not the Ranger General until Sylvanas died in the Undead invasion of Quel'thalas, and King Llane's Ultime ability description is a little confusing.. "Llane has the Lion of the Hammer of Azeroth" what? I really like the map, but id make it a little on lore, like Blackhand was the Warchief of the Horde until warcraft II after Gul'dan awoke from his coma, he found that Blackhand was assasonated by Ogrim because he knew that without Gul'dan Blackhand would drive the horde into the ground. Remove Blackhand and replace him with someone else please? And also remove Lor'remar Theron and replace him with... Mabye Manath Magesinger in a younger form? Replace Blackhand with Deathwing perhaps? Replace Nerzhul's Ultime ability with a Hero form of Healing Ward? I dunno.. Sorry that this comment only critizes things about the lore.. Balancing .. Yea the difficulty of the game is based on how good the players are, not how good the units are. (Btw, who is Gelen or what ever, king of Stormguarde)

 

[TheBronze]

Thanks for the comment about King Llane's ultimate. Fixed for 12.2.

As for the Lor'themar Theron, he was second in command to Slyvanas, who was the Ranger-General, so I figured second in command made him a Ranger General too. Perhaps a description change is in order. As for Blackhand, the game is supposed to begin in the middle of the 1st War, when Blackhand was indeed Warchief of the Horde, so he makes sense, since Doomhammer didn't kill him until after WC1.

If you have other ideas about the Lore or anything feel free to join the discussions on my forum, or create threads on these issues for us to discuss: http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?board=120.0

Thanks again for the comments.

 

[signoftheend]

Personally, I think it'd be better if you actually made it so when the Horde sacks Northsire Abbey, it would actually looked like it was damaged and sacked... like, replace the big Cathedral doodad with the damaged one, maybe trigger the change or something. Just to make it more realistic...

 

[VampireofBlood]

For the Hore XD

 

[Troynl]

you can maby add Zuluhed the Whacked.

 

[_Kuh_]

I love this map, good job <3

 

[Evillizard]

Let me see...
Lor'remar was a ranger captain (Or something) until Sylvanas was killed in the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas and was promtoed to Ranger general. Later when Kael was going to Outland, he sent Lor'remar back to take rebuild silvermoon (Something like that) later, after Kael turned bad guy, Lor'remar was promoted to Region lord or w/e and promoted Halduron to Ranger General. But, Sylvanas wasnt the Ranger General until Alleria got lost in Outland( I think, that part of the lore is a blurr) so who knows what Lor'remar was in warcraft II and warcraft I? Still dont think Lor'remar should be a hero yet Perhaps, you could replace him with . . . . Wait, you said warcraft I? Was Durotan not exiled until Warcraft II? if so, perhaps you can add a Durotan hero to the horde? That would be l337.

 

[Zaljinzoo]

This map is quite epic, I have downloaded and played almost every version and am about to test this most recent one, from my time of playing the last version I must say I have been very impressed, I play it single-player and it's still an awesome ride, I know I'm not a mod but I'll give a review anyways

BALANCE

[+]I find that the units are quite balanced and equal in power and usefulness

[-]Some Heroes seem to be more powerful then others, example Kargath's Charge ability shouldn't give him 99999999999 armor in my opinion

[-]Many Alliance factions do not have three heroes as some others do, EX. Dwarves have Magni, Brahn, and Falstad, but lordaeron only has Uther and Terenas

TERRAIN

[+]I think the Terrain job was quite well done

TRIGGERS

[=]Triggers are neat and organized but some triggers seem unneeded or potentially too difficult, Ex. the Trigger to get Trolls/Ogres and the like is to destroy Azeroth, however an experienced Alliance player might call for his allies to protect the Throne of Azeroth to prevent this, therefore applying pressure and difficulty to the Horde Players

HEROES
[+]Most heroes on both sides are potentially great when working together, EX. I found that Grom and Zul'jin make a wonderful combo

[+]One of my favorite aspects of the game is that the Heroes follow the lore and fit in the concept of the game

CONCEPT

[+]Concept follows the lore of Warcraft I and II which is no small feat, bravo!

[+]This reminds me of Warcraft II, MASSIVE armies with powerful heroes to lead them into battle, another bravo from me

Overall Score: 5/5!

 

[TheBronze]

Thank you for the review.

13.0 will be out soon, and will include 2 more Alliance heros. 14.0 will then be out (look it for mid-October) and with it the final 2 Alliance heros so each nation will have 3. Then expect at 2-3 more Horde heros and 2 more Legion heros.

 

[Zaljinzoo]

Thank you for the review.

13.0 will be out soon, and will include 2 more Alliance heros. 14.0 will then be out (look it for mid-October) and with it the final 2 Alliance heros so each nation will have 3. Then expect at 2-3 more Horde heros and 2 more Legion heros.

My pleasure

And great I can't wait for the new heroes! If you need some ideas for Horde i have some suggestions

Fenris The Hunter
Chieftain of the Thunderlords
Agility based hero
Model: ChaosOrcRange

Zuluhed the Whacked
Dragonmaw Chieftain
Intellegence based
Model: OrcWarlock

Garona Halforcen
Assassain
Agility based
Model: OrcAssassin

Durotan
Frostwolf Chieftain
Strength based
Model: Beastmaster

Dentarg
Ogre-Magi
Intelligence based
Model: Dentarg

Tagar Spinebreaker
Bonechewer Chieftain
Strength based
Model: OrcOverlord

Maim Blackhand
Son of the Destroyer
Strength based
Model: GruntAssassain

Rend Blackhand
Son of the Destroyer
Strength based
Model: lebek7 for lack of anything better xD

 

[Evillizard]

Sorry to the makers, but alot of those models are... Well you know what Im going to say. Please note that those are quite a few custom models, and even though the filsize was raised you dont want to be just below the max, you want to below it so lag and loading time is reduced. But, I really think you can use Durotan. If you want, I could try to skin Durotan for you. Also, I think ive said this before, but what about Tichondrias for the Demons? And, I have an idea for Dalaran hero... dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn... DUN! Who was that conjuror guy... forgot his name... something like...ziz...errr... It was in that compaign "Coming of the Horde" (http://staff.samods.org/deicide/) ... whatever. go through the levels and look for a conjuror mage guy...w/e lol. Btw, I dont think Khadgar looked old like that until much later...

 

[Zaljinzoo]

Well those models were just suggestions anyways lol, I would like Fenris to be a Raider kinda like Blackhand but there are no really good non-Blackhand raider models T_T
Speaking of which why oh why must the raiders go when you get Trolls/Ogres? T_T

 

[Evillizard]

Well.. There where no Raiders in Warcraft I. there also was no Ogres and trolls. It's because blizzed traded the Raiders for Ogres and trolls in warcraft II, I think he's starting some connection there.

Well those models were just suggestions anyways lol

My @$$.

 

[Nitrious]

The first time I did this I was Stormwind. Little did I know I had the bottom-most base. I spent most of my time in my first city checking out all the features (which are great BTW). So, I died in a few minutes, and we lost with about 5 minutes left. Great game!

 

[Evillizard]

If It helps at all, I could try to come up with a Beastmaster skin for Durotan, or whatever.

 

[Evillizard]

(48 hour diffrence)
Hey, I was on Worldofwarcraft.com reading up on the new patch, when I something about Thalorien Dawnseeker, wielder of the Quel'Delar. He fought in both the Troll War (Before warcraft I) and the Undead Invasion of Quel'thalas (After Warcraft I), so instead of using Lor'remar you could use him

 

[Warhunter]

Once again, great map, really fun.
It's a bit hard to get people to join the game though.. Maybe you could add an nice minimap preview?

 

[Cyper95]

I love this map its great way to pass an hour when im bored.

 

[MogulKahn]

Very nice map.Gj and and dont like some things on your last map like 2 blood mage hero models itc.I will write them later maybe.Need to study.

 

[TheBronze]

Kael now has a new model.

Thanks for the comments. As always, visit my forum if you guys have any ideas!

 

[Aesthetics]

Full Review

Aesthetics's Official Map Review System

Is your map good enough?

Made by Aesthetics

[√] Doesn't break any rules?
[√] Proper Description?
[√] Deserves a real review?
[√] Would anyone even want to play it?
[√] Below 2 MB? (Except for exceptionally well-made maps)

If any of these are unchecked, then the rest of the review will not be available.

Terrain: 7/10

Gameplay: 6/10

Polish: 9/10

Replay Value: 7/10

Purpose: 10/10

Total Points: 39/50

3/5

If total points < 30, then vote for Rejection.
If total points > 30, then no vote.
If total points > 35, then vote for Approval.

Voted For . . .

*Note that I may choose to over-ride this system and vote accordingly.

Really nice map, although it gets boring knowing that you would just invade/defend over and over again.

No

^{Note: Please ask before using this template, and you can also PM me for the whole text template.}

 

[TheBronze]

That was actually a fairly useless review Aesthetics because it gave me little information about why I got those scores and what I can do to improve the map.

Biggest question is why the 6/10 for gameplay? I consider that the games strongest point as do most others who play it. Replayability is probably the weakest point, but there is still a variety of hero choices, and the variety of strategies for the Horde and Alliance, so much that no two games are the same.

 

[MogulKahn]

For me 1 of the best maps ever!
But i dont like some things.
1.Can u swap models of Keal and his father(blood mage model).I think it ll be better.
2.Can u make new model for Derek Proodmore.His walks animation is too bad for hero.
3.Can u change Swordsmans model(hight elf) with blood elf literaunt(just with red colours).And for captain(purple player) change with noraml captain/swordsman model.It will be better because u already have black footman. =)
EDIT:This ll be bettre skin for Knight of the Silver Hand(footman). http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/knightoforder-blp-150128/

 

[Evillizard]

He changed the model to unmounted knight to make it look realistic when they mount/unmount. But the model does look bad, yes.

 

[MogulKahn]

Pls change this things.And can u change voice from Kil´jaden in Firelord voice(bloodseeker form dota). "Fire way"

 

[Pomerancak]

Hi I don't know if you read this but before I'll try find forum link I'll write here.

I must admit this ugly duckling has grown in very nice and addictive map

Shame I cannot find more players to play with :-(

Neverthless I have noticed that King of Gilneas's ultimate Vengeance doesn't work fine for me. Is mistake on my side? Can anyone confirm?

As for suggestions I agree that terrain should undego some changes. All human towns looks almost same. Plus I would may buff Strenght of Stormgrade skill by 5 points of Streng per each level.

Anyhow THUMBS UP!

 

[TheBronze]

Hi I don't know if you read this but before I'll try find forum link I'll write here.

I must admit this ugly duckling has grown in very nice and addictive map

Shame I cannot find more players to play with :-(

Neverthless I have noticed that King of Gilneas's ultimate Vengeance doesn't work fine for me. Is mistake on my side? Can anyone confirm?

As for suggestions I agree that terrain should undego some changes. All human towns looks almost same. Plus I would may buff Strenght of Stormgrade skill by 5 points of Streng per each level.

Anyhow THUMBS UP!

I just tested Genn's Vengeance and it worked fine for me. Important to note that you get added damage when nearby units of Gilneas die, not when he kills other units or when nearby allied units die.

 

[Pomerancak]

^^ That maybe it. Does the bonus damage show in hero stats?

May I ask where are you playing? Any oficial clans or some servers? Or rooms on Garena?

 

[TheBronze]

I have a forum here: http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?action=forum

Clan DHVG on USEast (Azeroth) is the official COTH clan.

And yes, Genn's damage does show in his stats.

 

[MogulKahn]

Any1 play COTH on Garena?How can i open your map?I want 2 see some things from it(spells),but its protected(i think).And can u give me hero guide for this new ogre hero with skulls?2nd spell doesnt work for me.Every time i click spell nothing happens alway 0 skulls in this "5th spell".HELPPP

 

[TheBronze]

Dentarg gains skulls from killing enemy units (up to 10 at level 4). He uses these skulls to enchance his other spells.

So Hellish Projectile fires a head at an enemy, and if he has any skulls in built up he uses one to enchance the damage. Bone Sheath adds armor and magic resistance, but gets bonus armor if he as built up extra skulls. Finally, Shadow of the Fallen releases all his skulls in an AOE and deals damage based on the number of skulls + a set number. All of these spells still work fine if he has no skulls.

Trophies of the Fallen (the spell that allows you to collect skulls), can also be cast and if it is, if he has 1 or more skulls, it consume one skull and heals all of his allies in an area for 185 HP. If he has no skulls, this spell does nothing.

 

[MogulKahn]

Ty man,i ll try.=)
EDIT:Next version ll be?New heroes or units?U didnt answer how can i open map?

 

[TheBronze]

I don't support anyone opening the map.

However, I'd be happy to share any of my spells and help anyone with triggers, just ask.

16.0 is coming, and will have two new heros. There is a poll on my forum about what one of them (Medivh) should look like. Register and vote!

http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?topic=7829.0

 

[MogulKahn]

U didnt tell me how can i open it?

 

[Evillizard]

He doesn't want you to open it. The only way you could would to get someone who knew how to de-protect maps, deprotect it, and then you could screw around with it.

 

[MogulKahn]

Man i waiting for your map....
We want new version with Medivh mann!!!

 

[takakenji]

hey, bronze, i have a suggestion for a model you should use for warchief blackhand.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/blackhand-destroyer-147545/

the newest, and imo best, version of blackhand so far.