Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Can there be peace without war?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Malufa, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. GST_Nemisis

    GST_Nemisis

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,600
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    yeh Dalaran_Guard i totally agree, religion does suck, you are right.

    nah im only joking religion is cool :)

    i think the thing is when people are determined not to change their veiws, the wont; no matter how hard you try.

    i think can there ever be peace comes down to the definiton of peace:

    Peace is a state of harmony, the absence of hostility. This term is applied to describe a cessation of or lapse in violent international conflict; in this international context, peace is the opposite of war. Peace can also describe a relationship between any parties characterized by respect, justice, and goodwill.

    quote from wikipedia.

    anyways, i think from that definition there cant be peace, because there is always going to be hostility just as there have been in this very thread. i do think however that the international peace that it talks about is possible. i think a world without international war will happen one day.

    if you counted how many times i said think, it turns out i think alot of things ;P
     
  2. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,042
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    unwilling, and from my perspective i was being just as reasonable as you were, except you were wrong :grin:. in my first post on this page i (think i) was working towards some sort of cease-fire, but i can't really see how anymore and it's a moot point anyways.

    bah, the reason our argument started is because we were arguing about different yet similar things that were being described with one hardly objective word. not to mention the context we were taking it in is very hard to consider "objective" (i'm still against what i see it as, but i understand that what (i think) you see it as is totally fine, but it still wasn't in the original pledge).

    when somebody says "God" i take it for the literal meaning as the God shared by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, whereas you take it as the morals defined by that God (i think). this profanely large difference in our interpretations of God is what caused the argument, and now that i (think i) know what you take the "God" in the pledge of allegiance for, it is totally fine now.

    and to relate that to the topic (and as such justify this post), things like that are why peace is such a far-off and almost impossible goal. things, words, and names that have highly different, and polarizing, meanings (such as rap music, God, Jesus) and people who are arguing about different facets of those words/names. ie: i was arguing about God Himself/Herself, and Dalaran_Guard seems to have been arguing about the morals represented by God, from my perspective. and if he wasn't, then we should really try to stop debating with each other because we obviously have very large differences in our interpretations of things.

    it's a lot like war: war heroes to one side are fiends and devils to the other. hmm, comparing peace to war.
     
  3. Darth Trhite

    Darth Trhite

    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    War is the natural order of things. While nobody wants to 'be' in war, sometimes, war is what is needed to abolish certain evils. Some people say that evil cant be destroyed by destroying evil people, thats how evil spreads. Evil person to normal person.
     
  4. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    429
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    If we look at it in a more scientific manner, peace is movement toward a more organized world and war is a movement toward chaos (also referred to as 'entropy'). The earth naturally favors entropy, so war is inevitable...
     
  5. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,554
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    war is not a movement towards chaos. it's a movement towards peace that utilizes massive amounts of chaos.
     
  6. GST_Nemisis

    GST_Nemisis

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,600
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    biological organisms are a direct violation of the laws of entropy, we bring order where they should be chaos. by simply being alive you are doing something that would at first seem impossible. war cannot be explained in terms of entropy.
     
  7. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,554
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    i don't even know what "entropy" is...ima look on wikipedia.
     
  8. GST_Nemisis

    GST_Nemisis

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,600
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    entropy is a measure of randomness in a system
     
  9. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,554
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    i keep thinking your avatar is an eyeball until i look at it directly..
     
  10. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    429
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Who ever said that we controlled the goings-on of wars? Let's take a little test...
    1. During war, do people die? (YES)
    2. Can dead people create order in the world? (NO)
    3. Do dead people fall victim to entropy as they decay? (YES)
    4. Does war encourage entropy? (YES)

    And biological organisms pass on, as well. They live, they apply work/energy to a system, they die, and they become worm food. We may think we have such a huge impact on things, we may think that we bring order to a world of chaos, but we are simply pawns -- pawns that will die and decay and then get crapped out of a worm. Humankind is a zit on the earth's face, but puberty only lasts so long...
     
  11. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,042
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    unfortunately, this is not how evil propagates. in a book titled something like The Lucifer Effect it talks about how a bunch of college volunteers set up a fake "prison" that fostered anonymity (prisoners got numbers, not names; guards wore aviators to hide their faces; etc.), but the study was shut down because of how much of a fiasco it was becoming. in the article it recieved in Discover Magazine, the author (who was the professor running the study) was actually talking about the similarities between the project and the abu ghraib prison fiasco. evils happen with anonymity; part of that article was also talking about ancient BBSs, with limited access (upper end of middle-class) and there were still horrendous things posted on it. that explains idiots in places like the internet, and XBox Live.
     
  12. GST_Nemisis

    GST_Nemisis

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,600
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    @Dalaran_Guard

    ok well whatever, im just saying that entropy as i see it is used as a mathematical value not to explains wars and stuff. i know what you mean but for me having studied entroy in chemistry its not the same, its like trying to explain the oceans in diffusion or brownian motion terms, i means sure you can but its not the same for me.
     
  13. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    429
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Would you like me to relate war to entropy using the Gibbs free energy equation? j/k

    Offtopic: Just finishing up my last year of chem, and excited because we're making gun cotton as our final lab. 18 molar sulfuric acid, 15 molar nitric, and cellulose = big boom!
     
  14. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,042
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    lol that's what happened to chaos theory... it applies to too much to be able to be quantified into a sensible theory, it's more like a frequently-used constant. like it happened in this thread when it went violently off-topic, but it was corrected. in this sense, humans do violate laws of entropy.
     
  15. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Messages:
    716
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    War is necessary. People are organisms. Our instinct from ~5 million years ago is still intact. We have the carnal instinct for sex, blood, etc. Rape, murder, and theft are all natural. You can clearly see that people are just the parasites of the Earth just as a tapeworm is a parasite inside of us. We will eventually destroy everything unless we die first, or both simultaneously. Since people are instinctually supposed to kill, rape and commit other acts of violence, peace is impossible. Keep in mind that instinct came long before the structured bullshit that we have today: government and religion. Those two are both things that society accepts as normal, but will eventually fall because our instinct does not coincide with them. When our natural resources disappear, what do you think will happen? I fully believe that anarchy will ensue and all former instinct will resume: Survival of the fittest. Peace is impossible because war is necessary.

    I realize this isn't structured as it's just a bunch of thoughts and statements formulated in my head.
     
  16. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,554
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    war, or in a more general sense, violence, is the result of conflicting views. from a fist fight to World War I and its sequel, it's only caused by conflicting views. we, as humans, all see others as inferior in that they are different. in that sense, violence will always happen unless we no longer have the ability to cause conflict, i.e. we all die.
     
  17. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Messages:
    716
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    That's only in a civilized world. Down to basic human nature, it's caused by resources, mates, territory, etc. The basic needs.
     
  18. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,554
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    even in the most basic situations like that, it's still conflicting views, just in a different form. You think the food should go to you. Mr. Enemy thinks otherwise. Conflict ensues.
     
  19. FrostyisdaKing

    FrostyisdaKing

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    78
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    very true. To some degree we all feel that our survival seems more important than the person next to us. IN that sense peace is hard to come by when there isn't enough for me and you to survive off of.
     
  20. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Messages:
    716
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I suppose you're right there. I guess when it comes down to it, no there cannot be peace without war. Essentially, you can't have peace. Period.