BtT SFp Scarred Basin

[Moderator]

12:07, 16th Jan 2010
ap0calypse: Approved

 

[GhostThruster]

The Seed? And why is the author called 'Blizzard Entertainment'? Well anyways, I'll download it.

 

[Tank-Commander]

I decided to play this, And I'm gonna say what i think of it:
I'll start with the bad parts

Bad Sides [-]:

They could rush the opponant very easily
Harvesters may have been hard to get, with a bit of creeping of course that gets you them but after one battle with the opponant I had too many harvesters to handle and so much lumber i could do anything I wanted.
They didn't have a hero (as far as I noticed) therefore your only reason to creep was to get harvesters.
They had only a few buildings, I myslef prefer a whole build menu of them.
They only really used lumber, Lumber being the most easy resource to get in the game, so they had no reason to make expansions.
The fact that your first tier units could burrow made it extremely easy to rush, you just charge in. If you start to take too much damage burrow for a few seconds (as their regen was very high) unburrow deal more damage burrow again etc.
Their units > Everybody elses
No food cap means their armies grow alot bigger than everyone elses
No Ai

However i did like the race and all it's custom models and such.

Now I only have one other thing to say:
there was something with a stun for 0.00 seconds, this means that the stun will never end and will be their perminantly so it would litrally take units out the game. If it's not 0.00 seconds then it is by far too long.

Next is the alliance:
Pretty balanced, except that kinights were tier 3 units for a reason, I did have a sumwhat fair fight against the horde however once I had the paladin upgrade for my knights they didn't stand a chance.
Hero has no abilities
from appearance they gather gold alot fast than the Horde or the horde Ai don't build enough gatherers (I had 2 goldmines and so did they, built around about the same time but at the end i had twice as much gold gathered then them)
Not anyother complaints but maybe you whent overboard with unit replacing upgades.

Overall Bad side:
The Seed need to be weakend and given an Ai. Ai's maybe a little more difficult oh and out of intrest did you create Ai versions for easy medium and insane?
Give Heros abilities as they are a key point to any game as well as Give seed one.
Blance the beasts so Seed cannot rush really easily.

Good Sides [+]:
Seed:
They are fun to play with and the custom models/icons have been used well.
Broodlords were a great idea as it makes it by far easier to commond masses.
It's a nice unique way of getting workers.
The units are all unique and fun.
It's funny when you block sea passages with your tree regrow ability. as well as block off attackers while you make huge armies.
Many types of troops

Alliance:
I always like advanced Races
You've incorpirated Sea and made it more important, however they ren't needed to win.
Large amount of troops all differant
Added upgrades (something most people forget to do or are too lazy to)
Even if there were 3 i still liked having those unit replaces
Proper and successful techtree

Horde:
Same as above.

Overall good points:
The game is very unique and you've implemented new ways of playing the game.
You've made a good techtree so it's balanced in tech wise.
Many unit types and unique abilities and capabilities for each one.

Overall:
Bad side amount: 8
Good side amount: 6
Scoring:

How my scoring works:
Take the Bad side away from the good side, If it's below or equal to -2 then The map need improvement and will not be voted for approval.
Add five onto the first score, This gives my rating if the rating is below 3 then it's voted for rejetion.
If you get 5+ for the rating then you recieve rep.
You cannot recieve an actual 5 unless there are minimal problems (under 3 small ones and under 1 big one)
6-8 = -2
-2 + 5 = 3
Rating 3/5
Bad and good balance (negative)
Vote for approval (no)
Vote for rejetion (no)
+rep (no)

 

[Kam]

The seed are a new concept obviously and aren't done. They still are going to get a naval unit. One reason they have less structures is that the Broodord converts into a tower.

I plan to make lumber more difficult, most probably the initial extra lumber is unnecessary. Seed units are powerful, but aren't impossible. The problem your having is that the AI simply isn't very intuitive - a human player will be much harder. Seed rely on mass amounts of the lower level units and humans and orcs now have many options for area damage spells.

I'll probably get rid of regeneration all-together for burrowed units.

It's the same with the Paladins, a competent user will be able to fend them off using a combination of Necrolytes and Ogre Magis.

As far as AI for the seed, probably going to be awhile as I have to figure out how to get the AI to collect corpses.

EDIT: Very nice review, you've hit on many points I will address.

Also, if you weren't using at least normal or insane AI then no wonder you rolled with the Seed. You really do pay attention to detail though, I'm happy you noticed the dead tree lines for the seed to exploit.

 

[The_Key]

Very cool map, i personally would like some of the big figures, eg Grom Hellscream,Admiral Proudmoore,Gul Dan,Khadgar to be incorporated as heroes into the game with their own custom skills to make it more in depth as right now this is a bit incomplete i think, more upgrades would be nice and also you need to add the tornado spell to the death knights, that was one of their best spells, also, they have that auto voice where arthas says '' For The Litch King '', that has to go as the Litch King did not exist back then, let me break it down for you



BAD

-Not enough cool doodads = lack of emmersion
-Heroes have no spells and you have the same hero every time = boring
-Death knight is missing important skill, Twister ( Tornado in WC3 ) = Wth
-Death knight movement respone ( For The Litch King ) = NO!
-Not Enough upgrades = Yawn
-Units are using WC3 audios = Try to get the WC2 ones instead
-Lacking a cool loading screen = lack of immersion
-Human footmen are killed to easily = Horde FTW!
-Need stronger creeps on the map = To easy to expo


GOOD

-Awesome Death Knight custom skin
-Great icons from the second game
-You did not forget to include dragons and they look like the WC2 dragons
-Great selection of units to include
-Good creep and gold mine placement
-Unit build times are very convenient, much like the second game
-Terraining was well thought out and everything looked ship shape
-Inclusion of the docks and naval warfare, that is a great accomplishment


OVERALL = 3.5 / 5

With a few modifications, i think they should have done WC3 like this

When you update it with some improvements i will rate it but for now, you have some work to do buddy, i'm subbing this thread and keeping my eye on it, you have some talent

 

[Kam]

I will be releasing an update by the end of the week.

I guess people really want hero abilities. The idea has always been for them to be support units and aid in early game play, but I will see what I can do.

As far as importing sounds that's not ever going to happen, the map would be 10,000 kb by the time I was halfway done.

The seed will be much more extensive.

 

[The_Key]

Did you make those skins for the buildings yourself or are they someone elses resource, they are very cool

 

[Kam]

No I did not, If you want something specific I can probably help you. Try searching the database and my maps thread first.

 

[GhostThruster]

I'm about to play, but honestly, can you call 'The Seed' something else? Like the Wilderness, or the Forest, or even the Plants?! It's just really wierd for a race to be called 'The Seeds'.

Alright, I've played the map, and I must say, I'm fucking happy! The races were so unique-ified! I love those custom models for the Seed. Their units were really awesome as well, and all three races provided a new way of strategic thinking. However, the game crashed when I began building a Brooder or something, whichever building makes Dragoons. But the alliance, in the beginning aren't that good, especially fighting the Horde. They were really weak at the start, but the orcs had Ogres and loads of Axethrowers. Also, the heroes were a bit bland and I don't think the Seed have heroes at all. I think you overdid the uniqueness of the Seed. They are quite weak, but they should still use food capacities or else it will be unbalanced later on when they get more powerful units. And also you should make them harvest gold as well. However, these are your choices. BTW, did you make the AI? Coz at the moment the Seed AI is crap. I can make an AI for you, just PM me. One more thing, the Seed use Zerg buildings from SC right? Why not call them the Plague or Xenos or something? Overall, a beautiful map 4.75/5. Keep up the good work!

 

[Trilby]

I found two typos. First was in the "Return Resources" button, where it said to return lumber to the nearest Necropolis or Graveyard, where it should say Ofirice or Bile Pit.
Second is that the button to build the Bile pit says "Bie"
Other than that, its cool.

 

[Vengeancekael]

So you still uploaded this with the ai problem? Oh and you forgot to add a category.

 

[Delpiroth]

Wow, very good responces. Imma try it soon.

 

[Kam]

No the AI problem is fixed.

 

[Kam]

Please rate for approval.

A mod needs to approve this, much has been improved.

 

[GhostThruster]

IF you want it to get approved, send a PM to ap0calypse and ask for approval. Also, don't double post.

 

[MultiGod]

Double post after 48 hours is called thread bumping.

 

[GhostThruster]

I don't know what that means but I believe you.

 

[MultiGod]

Let me explain it to you:
- Double Post, means posting right after your posts before 48 hours(2 days). It is the reason why the EDIT button exists. It is to prevent unnecessary post count increases.
- Thread Bumping, means posting right after your post after 48 hours(2 days). It is allowed, as it's meant to bring a thread back up so that Hivers will notice that a thread is updated. Editing posts won't make the thread back up.

 

[GhostThruster]

I didn't check the date! K, now I know what it means!

 

[NoobofHonour]

Hey, I really like this map. Can you please tell me what Terra's unit sound is? :\

 

[ashbringer753]

Great map! I liked the idea of mixing WC 2 and WC 3.however the games crashes sometimes(im using v1.24).3.75/5

 

[Kam]

Yes I'll be addressing this in the next update. Look for it soon.

 

[viktor1995]

Hy

Kam

What patch do the map relased? I tried with 1.24, and the game don't show the map in the list, in the 1.23 it show, but it don't run
viktor

 

[Kam]

It works fine for me and I have 1.24. Hosting it on bnet right now.

 

[supertoinkz]

Test....

 

[Aspard]

Good job, I like it

 

[Trilby]

Hy

Kam

What patch do the map relased? I tried with 1.24, and the game don't show the map in the list, in the 1.23 it show, but it don't run
viktor

I had the same problem, but it turns out the name of the map is long. Just rename it to "Beyond the Throne" and it should work.
Anyways, like the new map, I enjoyed the new units (Especially the purifier >). Don't you think the purifiers are too cheap? I was able to get like 10 of those and attack the enemy as they fired off at their units. The base was down in no time D:
And no for a more minor problem, the bright units kinda ruin the dark terrain somewhat.
Other than that 4.5/5 (Rated as 5 ;D)

 

[Kam]

I actually like how the dark terrain makes the details on the units stand out, it creates a foreground and a background. As for the purifier the AI has some trouble with it, but your average human player won't. I'll try and think of a way to make to AI smarter.

 

[supertoinkz]

Create your own AI

 

[Kam]

Right now I use the standard AI editor supplemented with triggers. Making a wholly triggered AI is an immense undertaking.

 

[kevin101olorvida]

cool

 

[MrStormyZ]

Much of an area for the battle , this would be really good for 3v3/4v4
I'm supporting The_Key for the Wc2 Audio changes, especially for the Ships

 

[HD888]

wow this is great. its one of the best altered melee maps i have played +rep

 

[deepstrasz]

There is a bunch of units, and grouped from two to three in a building. Peons could have the advanced build ability instead of having another unit (Peon) to do that.
The game starts lagging later on, not sure why. I am having a strong PC for what WcIII needs.

 

[Kam]

There is a bunch of units, and grouped from two to three in a building. Peons could have the advanced build ability instead of having another unit (Peon) to do that.
The game starts lagging later on, not sure why. I am having a strong PC for what WcIII needs.

This map is not supported. Please find the latest version here:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/beyond-throne-tides-darkness-32321/