Blizzard Survey Indicates Potential Relaunch for Warcraft III: Reforged

[frostwhisper]

A new survey regarding Warcraft III Reforged has circulated Blizzard's survey email lists. Most notably, it appears to focus on currently missing legacy Warcraft III features, and the phrase "soft relaunch" gives us some insight into Blizzard's development plans.

Below you can read through the relevant survey questions:

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[deepstrasz]

I assume you have to own Reforged to get the survey. I have Classic 1.35 and have seen no such survey anywhere, mail or otherwise but get lots of WoW and uninteresting spam from them instead.

 

[azgarol]

Reforged graphics looks so bad not because of bad art. It's how it is implemented in the game. The new models looked glorious in the trailers. What they should do is to make the game look as good as how they marketed it.

Well some models look bad because they are of wrong size, or maybe they look too epic for a weak creep they are made for. Only limited amount of art needs to be redone I think.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

Will they call it rereforged ? Or just "reforged, but we get it right this time, promised" ?

 

[Resyak]

I no longer believe anything, neither from Blizzard nor from any video game developer, we live in the era of broken, incomplete release games, broken promises and outright scams. With these people only the facts are valid, so when I see it, complete and with everything they promised in 2018, I'll believe and I might stop shooting shit to them every second I can because that's the only thing they give me, shit.

 

[GrajdaninSvoboda]

Please please please please ☺

 

[Blood Raven]

How can I take this survey? I'd love to share a piece of my mind with them folks over at Blizzard.
Do you get it by email when you own Reforged, or in Battle.net / their website or somewhere else?

 

[Archian]

This is very interesting. We might make a similar survey for Hive members, seeing as many didn’t get the survey (myself included).

I wonder if a relaunch would mean some updated SD graphics. That would actually be cool. This what many wanted instead of the current HD.

Like the StarCraft 2 Warcraft 3 assets that were slightly more “HD” but still very much in the same cartoony style as Warcraft 3.

We already saw high resolution Warcraft 3 icons with the old icons added to Reforged.

Imagine Warcraft 3 in that style. I wonder if this is something the community would be interested in?

 

[Barade]

I own Reforged and didn't get this Any updates are welcome as long as they don't make it worse. The community is already fixing the game's content. They should just focus more on the game engine and more natives/World Editor plugin API/better multiplayer support/maybe multiplayer map transitions/permanently hosted games where you can join and leave at any time. This is stuff the community can't really do on their own. The mods will make the game more interesting anyway. Seriously, I bought some games only because of the awesome mods.

Disabling HD with an option, making the game smaller would be something many people want. I never play with HD graphics.

 

[coconut]

delete all shitty "reforged" models and create new with classic style, not super detalization and a lot of poligons, when map starts lagging, but add more shaders, better shadows, post-processing, fog, WATER, cool effects of abilities, better optimization for engine (no unit lag etc), old menu with 3d style without super laggy chromium and maybe... i'll say "YES BLIZZARD YOU SO COOL GUYS TAKE MY 40$"

 

[OutsiderXE]

If they remake SD, I at least hope that they will retain some facial animations, so cinematics still look good.

 

[Planetary]

I'm torn on what their approach would/should be, if they even do it.

Melee is far more popular than I assumed when comparing replies on melee versus world editor threads.

However, the Reforged implementation is antithetical to modding and melee camps in the art department:

• Melee performance is bad and units are unrecognizable during gameplay because of their overdesigned fidelity and mismatched aesthetic.
• Modding is heavy and unwieldy: huge files, increased save/load times, loss of aesthetically-matching SD assets in every category from 15+ years of Hive history, accommodating maps for SD and HD (it's a mess), and the list goes on.

The most efficient option I see is either:

1. "HD" SD assets (i.e. see the fanart by André Kent, or the great models by @Tauer; ex: Gul'dan, or the SC2 WC3 mod assets) - an approach which has higher detail but retains the lower polygon count and animation frame requirement so custom assets remain approachable and "toonish".
   Basically, "WC3 Re-Tooned". Would have to include "HD" SD doodads and terrain textures. (edit: @Archian posted what the "HD" SD assets could look like for the UI above).
   Nvm, WC3 players want to be stuck in the stone age.
2. Open up the game to deeper modification. I don't know what this would look like; maybe a future state of community-created mpq archives that replace the game files, plus more control in general.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

IF it's not just a random PR move and they're serious about remaking a 20 year-old-game-that-isn't-monetized-with-microtransactions AGAIN, so that's a huge if :
just make the graphics like the Rebirth mod : closer to WOW so the artstyle is mostly the same, but units are still easy to recognize in normal gameplay, and it doesn't take 30 GB on your hard drive.
Or just remake the campaigns in starcraft 2 with the assets already talked about in previous posts, so the pathfinding is better and you can select more than 12 units...

 

[YourArthas]

Just make that purist “SD+” models(including buildings and doodads and so on ofc) and give us 3d menus back and I’ll gladly pay 30$ again.

 

[_lycan]

I assume you have to own Reforged to get the survey. I have Classic 1.35 and have seen no such survey anywhere, mail or otherwise but get lots of WoW and uninteresting spam from them instead.

these surveys are done by data scientists, they have a formula of the ratio of people they need to send it to as well, so yeah, not everyone gets it.

 

[Husarz94]

Warcraft III Reforged in Diablo II Resurrected quality including a minimally developed and improved single-player campaign.

Warcraft III classic maybe in this quality:

 

[Bitterman]

Reforged graphics looks so bad not because of bad art. It's how it is implemented in the game. The new models looked glorious in the trailers. What they should do is to make the game look as good as how they marketed it.

Well some models look bad because they are of wrong size, or maybe they look too epic for a weak creep they are made for. Only limited amount of art needs to be redone I think.

Grom Hellscream's reforged model is a offense to War 3 Grom, mainly the fact that his jaw should be fully black and with beard.
Blizzard went on to copy and paste Alt universe grommash, which isn't the real Grom.

Warcraft III Reforged in Diablo II Resurrected quality including a minimally developed and improved single-player campaign.

Warcraft III classic maybe in this quality:

View attachment 421419
View attachment 421420
View attachment 421421

Please tell me someone is working on this.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Warcraft III Reforged in Diablo II Resurrected quality including a minimally developed and improved single-player campaign.

Warcraft III classic maybe in this quality:

View attachment 421419
View attachment 421420
View attachment 421421

Where is this from? This looks amazing

 

[Evilhog]

Where is this from? This looks amazing

I googled the author's name, here's his stuff on artstation:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/0352JK

Edit: now this is interesting: I've found his LinkedIn profile, he's a 3D artist at Blizzard. I wonder if his Grunt is just a piece of fan art...

 

[deepstrasz]

Warcraft III classic maybe in this quality:

Still reeks of Reforged to me.

 

[Kasrkin]

I have to agree with deeps, the readability of units is still terrible. At least that style doesn't have five separate artstyles for units like reforged.

 

[Evilhog]

Still reeks of Reforged to me.

Of course it does. He used Reforged assets and mixed them with a few models from HotS (Uther, footman and rifleman.. perhaps Uther too?).

 

[_lycan]

Warcraft III Reforged in Diablo II Resurrected quality including a minimally developed and improved single-player campaign.

Warcraft III classic maybe in this quality:

View attachment 421419
View attachment 421420
View attachment 421421

my problem with this is that it has the same issues that reforged art has, lack of variation for example for trees, wc3 trees used two colorations for any tree tileset, dark and light green for lordaeron summer for example, this should be considered as well for any remake, losing color is not good, it makes the game seem more stale.

also a lot of the units and stuff still got the same reforged style, like the barracks, and lastly, I hope they fix wrong rotation by models (breaks compatibility) and scale of units (ex hydra in wc3 classic and reforged)

 

[deepstrasz]

Edit: now this is interesting: I've found his LinkedIn profile, he's a 3D artist at Blizzard. I wonder if his Grunt is just a piece of fan art...

The time stamp of that image is 2020.

Of course it does. He used Reforged assets and mixed them with a few models from HotS (Uther, footman and rifleman.. perhaps Uther too?).

Well, some Reforged models editing/tweaking won't satisfy me. The StarCraft II versions are way better crafted and recognizable.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Might even be a proof of concept. Some buildings were not remade. Some effects look like photoshop. It might be a tad too cartoony/mobile, but it shows promises of being readable and in similar style to WC3 Classic. I could imagine our custom units in the same scene.

 

[Bitterman]

Of course it does. He used Reforged assets and mixed them with a few models from HotS (Uther, footman and rifleman.. perhaps Uther too?).

the rifleman and footman looks more lively and detailed.
in fact they look more like its original cinematic models than that cursed looking armor the new art department at blizzard forced Lemon Sky to do over samwize's art.

Also, the footman should had looked like this, instead of that crap

Warcraft Lordaeron Footman | 3D model

Model available for download in Autodesk FBX format. Visit CGTrader and browse more than 1 million 3D models, including 3D print and real-time assets

www.cgtrader.com

And is from the guy who ported it to skyrim along with the other human cinematic armors

Rise of Lordaeron

Replaces the Imperial Legion with Lordaeron (WOW) style armors and weapons.

www.nexusmods.com

Warlord's Armory (Rise Of Lordaeron) - Standalone Armor and Weapons

Adds 2 variations of a standalone armor set and 5 new weapons that has a legionnaire/ soldier feel. Credits for model: Iroquin

www.nexusmods.com

 

[markus-1]

the rifleman and footman looks more lively and detailed.
in fact they look more like its original cinematic models than that cursed looking armor the new art department at blizzard forced Lemon Sky to do over samwize's art.

As written on the page, he only made a grunt. The remaining units are taken from HotS. Footman and Rifleman from Alterac Pass battleground. Shaman its Reghar, Blademaster is Samuro, Brewmaster is Chen and Paladin is Uther.



P.S. I still won't forgive Blizzard for giving up Hots.

 

[Bitterman]

As written on the page, he only made a grunt. The remaining units are taken from HotS. Footman and Rifleman from Alterac Pass battleground. Shaman its Reghar, Blade Master is Samuro, Brewmaster is Chen and Paladin is Uther.
View attachment 421425View attachment 421426View attachment 421427View attachment 421428View attachment 421429


P.S. I still won't forgive Blizzard for giving up Hots.

those footmen look more detailed than the ones here at hive, but then it must be texture trickery.
in any case, some edits on those models to add more details would fix it.

 

[knight26]

This is actually the only good news in years. To be honest, I'm glad they acknowledge the vast player base. The downside is, will we have to pay, again?

 

[AngelCraft]

This is actually the only good news in years. To be honest, I'm glad they acknowledge the vast player base. The downside is, will we have to pay, again?

If they give warcraft 3 classic for free, don't worry about paying something more xD

 

[Bitterman]

If they give warcraft 3 classic for free, don't worry about paying something more xD

I see it getting released off Bnet very soon
I may not be surprised if Bnet and Steam + Xbox accounts starts getting linked

 

[AngelCraft]

I see it getting released off Bnet very soon
I may bot be surprised if Bnet and Steam + Xbox accounts starts getting linked

and all with a game pass . It's not a bad idea for them to relaunch the game ha.

 

[Spacebuns]

We are so back

 

[deepstrasz]

It might be a tad too cartoony/mobile, but it shows promises of being readable and in similar style to WC3 Classic. I could imagine our custom units in the same scene.

Hopefully not Warcraft Arclight Rumble models.

 

[Cioco]

I also got this survey. I own the original game, and have a long while ago bought and refunded Reforged.
When they send surveys like that, it is a sign they are gonna do it.
Really hyped for it. Sorry, I never learn..

 

[Uncle]

I may start modding again if they keep this up. At the moment the game feels too broken to bother trying to create a custom map.

Also, I wouldn't want them to touch the SD graphics, that's a scary thought, imagine both SD and HD looking like shit. At least now you can always fall back on the mostly working SD. Improved HD graphics that actually work properly would be a very welcome change though.

My priorities:
1) Fix/finish every single bug/feature that has been added to the World Editor over the last few years.
2) Improve the HD graphics with visual clarity as a primary goal.
3) Add new natives -> change hotkeys via triggers, remove the need for dummy units for spell casting, etc...

I don't care about Clans or Profiles or anything like that, there's plenty of outside tools that can handle that. Most of the popular maps will have a Discord after all.

 

[WanSaweR]

I highly doubt, that Blizzard will remove reforged graphics, like here some people suggest. This is nothing, just a dream for part of the community, which dislike Reforged graphics since Blizzcon 2018.

The biggest chance is, company will probably change/upgrade SD graphics for current audience. Let's be honest. Graphics from year 2002/2003 is outdated, it's showing its age. I believe, SD graphics shall resemble HOTS, DOTA, LOL or WOW. Or something like classic+ in Starcraft 2.

And personally I would welcome this change for SD graphics. The current classic graphics is old for year 2023.

https://preview.redd.it/8i8dlvkmhi261.jpg?auto=webp&s=7e6b90cdc56e092bc8c3fb3387c885cef8fd265f

When it comes to reforged graphics. They can improve them, to look like at Blizzcon 2018.

https://i.redd.it/np0chiqz2nd41.png

Or let Blizzard implement Quenching mod.

 

[Spacebuns]

They obviously aren't gonna dump all the new shiny models and develop new graphics out of the blue, there's no money for that, especially in times of economic recession such as this. However, an internal auditing of Reforged graphics to troubleshoot and iron out the issues has to be done.

 

[deepstrasz]

Well, Brood War got a secondary graphics patch, CarbotAnimations based, so I don't see any reason for Classic graphics to be totally eliminated or updated but rather a new Classic-like graphics patch to be added along Reforged and Classic.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Post processing in SD would be awesome, now that we're throwing wishes on the table.

 

[deme3s]

Upload the classic version of the game in battlenet as Wacraft 3 (1.31) classic and start updating it like with balancing issues, have reforge as a separate game and keep it updated. Just like with wow.

 

[WanSaweR]

They obviously aren't gonna dump all the new shiny models and develop new graphics out of the blue, there's no money for that, especially in times of economic recession such as this. However, an internal auditing of Reforged graphics to troubleshoot and iron out the issues has to be done.

Exactly. And that's why I believe, they will improve Reforged graphics to look like at Blizzcon 2018. Plus they can implement features from Quenching mod, like better terrain.

We can see in Survey too:

• Reforged Environment Art Rework
• UI/UX Revamp

We can see UI and graphics at Blizzcon 2018

https://i.redd.it/np0chiqz2nd41.png

https://i.redd.it/hqvqe9dqk7141.png

Well, Brood War got a secondary graphics patch, CarbotAnimations based, so I don't see any reason for Classic graphics to be totally eliminated or updated but rather a new Classic-like graphics patch to be added along Reforged and Classic.

I wouldn't be against new Classic-like graphics as third option between Classic and Reforged to look similar as HOTS, DOTA or WOW.

 

[Lizreu]

such great management
what was the point of laying everyone off just to start over
lmao holy shit what a trainwreck
well maybe they can finally finish what they started

 

[Armelior_is_back]

the point is firing experienced people to hire young recruits that you will pay less and that will accept shit conditions to get this job on their resume = corporation management 101

 

[darkravenbest]

The only thing i want to see its evolutionary way of development like it took in the period of 1.26-1.31. When is the same warcraft 3, but with modern resolution, new natives stuff and thats all. No tasteless WoW-like HD models, which bloat game size up to 30 GB, no constant battle.net connection, and connect to it when you really need too, like when you are actually want to play online. No heavy changes in the existing code which broke some old classic custom maps. Although some new addition to an engine, like a possibility to select more than 12 units in your custom map or another elimination of game limitations would be sweet.

 

[OutsiderXE]

I googled the author's name, here's his stuff on artstation:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/0352JK

Edit: now this is interesting: I've found his LinkedIn profile, he's a 3D artist at Blizzard. I wonder if his Grunt is just a piece of fan art...

Whether fan art or not, the fact that its from a blizzard artist shows me there was (is?) a desire to make Reforged look closer to the original. I can imagine the discussion about the art direction was quite heated, until someone decided on the current look. And then many sad faces...

 

[deepstrasz]

Whether fan art or not, the fact that its from a blizzard artist shows me there was (is?) a desire to make Reforged look closer to the original. I can imagine the discussion about the art direction was quite heated, until someone decided on the current look. And then many sad faces...

I think 2020 is way too far for them to have had that heated debate. I think the Lemon Sky vibe was already ongoing.
Maybe he worked on Arclight?

Spoiler

screenshot from this video

Some concept art and models from that game:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/1/1b/ArajtheSummoner-ArclightRumble.png/revision/latest?cb=20220503214239

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/c/c7/Headhunter-ArclightRumble.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220504001408

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/e/e4/WAR_Beast_Leaders.png/revision/latest?cb=20220504111312

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/9/9a/WAR_Horde_Leaders.png/revision/latest?cb=20220504111312

from: Warcraft Arclight Rumble

https://resize.arclight-champion.com/pezcSbOnIm2DX_DtWFEex4IamzqaSbAc-u-mqPCgLc8/g:ce/rs::200:250:1/czM6Ly9nYW1lLWFzc2V0cy5hcmNsaWdodC1jaGFtcGlvbi5jb20vVW5pdHMvV2Fyc29uZ0dydW50cy9VSS9NYXRlcmlhbHMvU3RhdHVlX1dhcnNvbmdHcnVudHNfUG9zZS5wbmcvU3RhdHVlX1dhcnNvbmdHcnVudHNfUG9zZS5TcHJpdGUucG5n

You can see the units here: Warcraft: Arclight Rumble Units - Arclight-Champion.com

 

[Frotty]

The whole survey imho just shows how misguided their focus is. I think the biggest problem with reforged was breaking promises (shutting down classic) breaking existing community tools, breaking maps and breaking the game. Every patch feels like 2 steps forward and 3 steps backward. How about fixing bugs that were reported 2 years ago and still exist? How about simple things that existed in classic which are missing in reforged, like squelching players? How about improving the electron launcher in ways that were accomplished by modders in days? How about ensuring that patches don't have major regressions, or aren't pushed from PTR to live if there are tons of reported issues? How about taking the time to playtest like the Top 15 most played maps before pushing patches that make them unplayable? Imo it's much more about the methodology, having some common sense, interacting with the community and having some interest in actually making a good product rather than benign things like another art rework, or lowering file size. For me the trust in blizzard to even implement anything mentioned in the survey to a standard that isn't garbage is completely gone. So before anything new, they should put like a dozen ppl just on fixing bugs and improving performance/stability.
For example they could roll out their own new ranked matchmaking which sucks, and in the process break alternatives which already work better today, like W3Champions.

 

[AngelCraft]

For example they could roll out their own new ranked matchmaking which sucks, and in the process break alternatives which already work better today, like W3Champions.

Grubby sent a request asking for the melee and the ladders to be like Wc3Champions. And so far we of the WE community have stayed with our arms crossed, we must have seen the request that the game still lives thanks to the map content. I hope Blizz considers teaming up with the Hive staff again, many of us want the game to be better for everyone.

 

[ShadiHD]

I believe that the "Reforged Graphics are going to be deleted" is just a cheap scare-mongering attempt that circulates in the community.
I'm up for optimizing and fixing many legacy features and improving the graphics to be more cleaner.