• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Are Warcraft 3 maps even Legal? Can they be monetized?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
Hello Guys

I had a question about legality of Mods in Warcraft 3? First of all would it be illegal for me to for example put a copy righted music into my mod? I have seen some maps do it and get away with it.

Secondly is it okay for me to attempt to monetize a map i made? For example let's say for a map I made I can make it that if you donate on Pateron or steam or something. I will add a code to the game which checks your name and allows you to have a skin when you are playing my mod? Would that be legal and will Blizzard be fine with it?

Also a final question, Do I get any copyright protection for the mods I make? Let's say for example could Blizzard technically just Takeover Icefrog's Dota and say mine now haha and Then Montezie the game mod and update it themselves? Since technically Warcraft 3 belongs to them so any maps made also belongs to them?


Let me know what you think? I'm just interested to know.

thanks
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,808
Secondly is it okay for me to attempt to monetize a map i made?
Definitely not. Donations are a totally different thing.
Read the EULA you accepted when installing the game... and most of your questions will be answered.
Using copyrighted material in your maps is OK unless you don't sell your stuff with it and until the rightful owner of those resources asks you to take them down or sues you :)
Also a final question, Do I get any copyright protection for the mods I make?
No. The only thing to do is to protect your maps which can anyway be unprotected. Blizzard takes all rights you'd own because you're using their product. Life's fair.
They could potentially take your ideas and consider them their own unless you have a really good lawyer but honestly, Blizzard is such a huge company that it has its own think tanks so don't worry about you having too many better ideas they haven't thought about yet.
 
Last edited:
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
Definitely not. Donations are a totally different thing.
Read the EULA you accepted when installing the game... and most of your questions will be answered.
Using copyrighted material in your maps is OK unless you don't sell your stuff with it and until the rightful owner of those resources asks you to take them down or sues you :)

No. The only thing to do is to protect your maps which can anyway be unprotected. Blizzard takes all rights you'd own because you're using their product. Life's fair.
They could potentially take your ideas and consider them their own unless you have a really good lawyer but honestly, Blizzard is such a huge company that it has its own think tanks so don't worry about you having too many better ideas they haven't though about yet.
oh I see. Thanks for the response. :)
 
Level 9
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
342
Note that dude who made Dota managed retain rights to the title, but that wasn't easy, and he had financial/legal might of Valve behind him.
Then again, your map must reach Dota's level of popularity for Blizzard to notice you, and at that point some big company might want to back you anyway.

Although lately Blizzard has been nice to modders for some reason - see the guys who made that pirated Vanilla WoW server and were invited to work on Classic, and the guys working on Starcraft Universe.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,808
Although lately Blizzard has been nice to modders for some reason - see the guys who made that pirated Vanilla WoW server and were invited to work on Classic, and the guys working on Starcraft Universe.
Any links on those? And the latter weren't breaking any rule "except" asking for donations so they'd continue the work.
 
Level 9
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
342
Any links on those? And the latter weren't breaking any rule "except" asking for donations so they'd continue the work.
Blizzard's Response on Nostalrius and Legacy Servers
"One other note - we’ve recently been in contact with some of the folks who operated Nostalrius. They obviously care deeply about the game, and we look forward to more conversations with them in the coming weeks."
Later it was either confirmed or heavily implied that those guys have a hand in WoW Classic development.

As for the latter I think Blizzard offered them some support, no? I know they forced them to take the trailer down and then apologized to the community saying their only problem was with the trailer because blah-blah-blah muh copyright yadda-yadda, but they actually like the idea and support it. I'm not sure, I don't really care about Starcraft. Don't have a link for that.
 
Level 12
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,082
As I am aware, the guys behind DotA Allstars (The latest, best, most beloved & played and still up-to-date DotA version) split halfway, half went out and made LoL and the other half was employed by Valve to work on DotA 2.
The guys themselves never owned anything on DotA and nobody ever did.
Valve has DotA 2.
Blizzard initially planned to name HoTS as "Blizzard DotA" and Valve sued but that was settled out of court... and name changed for many reasons.

Also, the "that dude who made dota" is lost in time (kinda) and almost never actually existed... It has been usually a team and the team who is famous with DotA is currently working in Riot Games and Valve.

There is absolutely nothing wrong being nice to modders, Blizzard has ALWAYS been nice to them, ever since StarCraft (the original) :)
The modding community is a very good place to stick your hand and take out an experienced programmer/artist/other.

Valve & Blizzard both understand that and they have incorporated it very well.
Most of Valve's latest(not that they release a lot lately, take that a bit broadly ) games were actually mods of other of their games, e.g. CS, TF
I believe Steam was also external in original (not known as steam at the time obviously)

Blizzard are also doing pretty damn good job incorporating mods & externals.
Bnet was originally a 3rd party program back in War2 days (not known as Bnet at the time), Blizzard said "Hey, guys, want jobs?". They got jobs.

regards
-Ned
 
Last edited:
Level 9
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
342
I'm not saying its wrong, I just find it suspicious when companies are nice to people without direct profit to be had - especially in modern age when gaming companies no longer care about quality for quality's sake and just seek to get more money.
 
Level 9
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
342
It is called "Strategy"

-Ned
Sadly strategy usually revolves around attracting people and then monetizing what they enjoy most (e.g. Skyrim and paid mods), rather than around forming a loyal playerbase that will keep supporting you. Blizzard used to do the latter, but IIRC, it was long before Activision acquired it. So can't be sure of anything these days.
 
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
Hey Guys

I believe this is the EULA we are talking about?
Blizzard Entertainment:Blizzard End User License Agreement

I wonder how do you draw the line between with what's donation and what is a commercial sale?

For example would really be illegal if I made a map and made a patreon page for players to support me if they like my map. Then also maybe add a perk for Patreon supports to get some customized cosmetics in my map?

I don't see how Blizzard might not like this tho, Warcraft 3 has no in-game purchases so whoever has bought the game won't be spending more money on it. However tho I wonder how will the state of custom maps go with the Warcraft 3 Remake/Remaster? I don't think Blizzard will make the same mistake of not adding In game purchases to the game to ensure longevity while also not having ways to capitalize on run away success mods such as Dota or TDs.

I have seen some websites for example give extra cosmetic perks to donors. It still goes under donation tho not a sale.

As for Dota Allstars, It would be obviously be a PR disaster for Blizzard to takeover Dota for themselves without any credit to actual creators, also they most likely were not familiar enough nor had plans to continue making the map. I was just interested if they originally had the power to do so. However that was before merge with Activision. And now with EA leading the gaming industry, you can never be too cynical on how far companies might kill reputation for short-term profit.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,808
Then also maybe add a perk for Patreon supports to get some customized cosmetics in my map?
This is crossing the threshold.
I don't think Blizzard will make the same mistake of not adding In game purchases
I hope they don't. I don't want to see stuff like that in my face everyday.
I have seen some websites for example give extra cosmetic perks to donors. It still goes under donation tho not a sale.
Which ones? It would be good to investigate these "donations".
 
Level 20
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,264
Nope, this is the one:
Blizzard Entertainment: Custom Game Acceptable Use Policy

And to answer your questions, some quotes:

Custom Games are and shall remain the sole and exclusive property of Blizzard. Without limiting the foregoing, you hereby assign to Blizzard all of your rights, title and interest in and to all Custom Games (...)

This means that whatever mod or custom content you create using Blizzard games is their property, not yours. Thus the answer to these questions:

Let's say for example could Blizzard technically just Takeover (...) and Then Montezie the game mod and update it themselves? Since technically Warcraft 3 belongs to them so any maps made also belongs to them?

The answer is YES. They can "takeover" any mod that you make and do whatever they want with it, be it developing, editing, updating or monetizing said mod.
From my understanding this is also valid in regards to any intellectual property tied to your mod, so for example - if your mod spawned a series of books, a standalone game or anything else, Blizzard would have rights to it as well.

From a more practical point of view, such scenario is extremely unlikely - this point is pretty much a safety mechanism in case anything like DOTA ever happens again and let's face it, chances that your mods grow even remotely as big as DOTA are very slim. Thus, unless you are hell bent on trying to use Warcraft 3 to spawn a separate intellectual property (and you actually believe you can manage that), you probably shouldn't be worried as chances that Blizzard will snatch your work are pretty much next to none.

You represent and warrant that neither the content you use to create any Custom Games or upload to the Service, nor the compilation, arrangement or display of such content (collectively, the “User Content”), infringes or will infringe any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret or other intellectual property right of any third party.

This means that you cannot use any copyrighted material in custom maps, unless you can prove that the copyright owner granted you the rights to use his property.

Now, you can easily find things like music or art that can be used for free in non-profit projects, so you can safely use those. I also believe that anything that people post on the Hive is automatically given such a permission (i.e. the author agrees to grant the right to use his work by other people in non-profit projects), so there's also that.

Other stuff... Well, technically you can't use it without getting permission from the copyright holder first, but - let's face it, Warcraft 3 modding is a pretty niche and small thing, so chances are that even if you use something that you shouldn't, nobody will really notice or care about it do take legal action against you - you'd have to be shit out of luck to have someone not do more than ask you to stop using his content or provide more visible credits.

This obviously doesn't apply to any monetization attempts, but as you will see in a moment, these are generally prohibited anyway.

Custom Game developers cannot develop Custom Games for profit at this time. Accordingly, a Custom Game cannot be sold, licensed, rented, nor can the Custom Game contain features that would support purchase transactions of any tangible or intangible content.

In short, you cannot make money off of custom games, i.e. you can't monetize your mod in any way. And now, while it's rather unlikely that Blizzard's legal team will come in contact with you due to copyright issues, it's actually quite possible that they might do that over any monetization attempt.

Also, if you read the last sentence, you will notice that you mod cannot contain any features or content that can be unlocked by paying money, so obviously any kind of paid skins are considered illegal.

Accordingly, Custom Game developers are allowed to fund their development costs through donations (...)

Here you go - Blizzard gives you permission to receive donations for your work, but... There's some extra rules, such as this one:

Donors shall not be provided with any in-game special advantages, such as private access to a Custom Game, special levels, graphical markers, special text, abilities, units, etc. All users are to be able to play the same Custom Game;

What it essentially means is that you cannot give anything for users who decide to donate to you, so once again - no special skins or other rewards, unless you want to risk getting a very "nice" e-mail from Blizzard's legal department.

---

So yeah... Generally I feel like the notion of monetizing Warcraft 3 mods is rather stupid. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but let's face it - you're rather unlikely to get much (or even any) money from your mod and trying to do so will only put you at a risk of getting in legal trouble. Personally, I'd advise against it.

---

I'm not saying its wrong, I just find it suspicious when companies are nice to people without direct profit to be had (...)
It's not suspicious. It's called marketing - sure, there is no direct profit to be had, but there is an indirect one.

I won't go into much detail here, but the general idea is that if your customer base is happy and well treated, you will eventually get more money out of it. If you're a dick to your customers, they will eventually move on to other products and you will get squat.

Having a nice modding community that creates nice custom games in your product won't upset anyone, but it might make quite a lot of people happy.
Giving modders a hard time won't really make anyone happy, but it might upset a lot of people who like custom content.

I wonder how do you draw the line between with what's donation and what is a commercial sale?
A commercial sale is when you someone gives you money to get something in return.
A donation is an act of giving someone money without getting anything in return (bar satisfaction and a "thank you").

Thus, I'd argue that getting a special skin for money is actually a purchase (or very, very close to it), not a donation.

For example would really be illegal if I made a map and made a patreon page for players to support me if they like my map. Then also maybe add a perk for Patreon supports to get some customized cosmetics in my map?
You are allowed to have a Patreon page or provide some sort of a donation link, so that people can send you money if they feel like it.

The difference between this and having a visual perk in-game is that the latter creates a situation where the gameplay experience is different for people who sent you money and for those who didn't. The thing is that some people might consider your mod to be more enjoyable with that skin, thus they might see their experience as inferior to the one of the people who donated. And in order to get that better experience (or unlock it faster), they are required to pay money.

And, since some people would sent you money not to show appreciation for your hard work, but to get that better experience - thus they would pay to get something in return, i.e. they would be making an in-game purchase.

I don't see how Blizzard might not like this tho, Warcraft 3 has no in-game purchases so whoever has bought the game won't be spending more money on it.
Warcraft 3 is not the only Blizzard game and some of their other games have in-game purchases, so if someone spends like 5$ to get something in a Blizzard game's mod, that's a potential 5$ that he won't spend on Blizzard content. Thus your logic of "Blizzard won't get this money anyway, so why do they care" is false.

However, that's not the primary reason why they are restricting in-game purchases.

If you followed the development of Starcraft II, at some point there an idea to create in-game marketplace, where people would be able to sell maps or in-game custom content. This idea was scrapped due to... legal issues. Allowing third parties to trade for real money in a game creates a lot of legal hurdles, which Blizzard doesn't want to deal with.

Before you say "but Diablo 3 had Real Money Auction House" - yes, it had. And if you followed it's development, you'd know that there were still a lot of legal problems with it, even despite the fact that people were selling in-game content that was generated by Blizzard, not custom made intellectual property with potential use of assets that break copyright laws or suffers from ownership and compensation issues.

To be fair, I totally understand that Blizzard doesn't want to deal with that crap.
 
Last edited:
Level 8
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
248
I'm alcoholized a bit (apologizes for that, but i will also be more free to listen other opinions), but in regards to the CG use policy i have a not so authorized opinion;

By clause 4 Blizzard only limits it exhorbitant license by 2 aspects; 1. property and other rights of non-contractors (third parties), 2. illicit use of the license by the contractor.
Blizzard avoids most conflicts with third parties (such conflict will be ventilated between the contractor and the third party, while Blizzard washes his/her hands), and that is right, Blizzard license rights can't extend over the rights of third parties that didn't contract with them, some basic contractual principles (a general license limit in fact). The illicit use sub-clause is also a redundant one, and a basic principle in lease and license contracts (think of this, you are the lessor and you gave the use of a house you have, the lessee -hope the spelling is right- uses such house to make a bordello/prostitution house; who is the responsable here?). ??????

But by clause 3 Blizzard extends it's license to basically anything the contractor does or makes, via an automatic/tacit assignation of any interests (because it extends to property rights, other usufruct/licenses/leases, and even, simple "interests") without limits, except for those prevented in the clause 4. My opinion is that clause 4 has no real content, and thus, limits at all.

The custom game itself is always property of Blizzard, but in regards to the resources, those are also property (via automatic cession, or overcoming if the property was not already transfered) of Blizzard (unless clause 4).

I present a case; you are an art developer and you made some custom icons for a W3 map. You finish your project and everything goes well.
You then use those icons on another project you have, be it a W3 map or anything (ie. you are advertising those icons in a work page).
Suddenly Blizzard calls you and says those icons are property of them, and that they didn't consent in the advertising or the particular use in which you are employing them. This is freaking bullshit, is like if a resources touches the editor, is bound to some instant or overcoming property restriction, and if it's not then you are good to go.

License is fundamentally a lease (if remunerated) or commodate (don't know the real concept in english, think of it as a free loan), extended to intellectual or inmaterial goods.
The licensor must "give" the use. It must deattach from it, be it a free license or not. In the Blizzard CG license, everything you do (of course we are talking about using something) is or will be property of Blizzard. Is like we are actually working for them, if we use the license, then is in fact Blizzard patrimony that is affected, not ours.
The contract interpretator (ie. judge, and Blizzard legal team also) must be especially careful in regards of the clause 3 and especially in determining what can / and what can't be assigned to Blizzard by such clause. Why? Because we are talking about a freaking License, and in any License (the title of the Contract, and thus, a manifestation of Blizzard will itself for naming it like that, otherwise, why not put "Working Contract"/"Working Conditions"/"Just another Warcraft III contract") the licensor deattaches from the use, as if the "use" (just the use) is radicated on the licensee. The licensor can limitate and overall condition the use, ie. non-commercial use, but can't distort it altogether.
I'm confident that Blizzard legal team will not sue anybody not worth some big money (basically only if the risk of losing compensate the posibility of winning some substantial property right of a developer), precisely because there is room for this contractual interpretation in clause 3.

TL/DR; Is it a license contract anyway?
 
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
Nope, this is the one:
Blizzard Entertainment: Custom Game Acceptable Use Policy

And to answer your questions, some quotes:



This means that whatever mod or custom content you create using Blizzard games is their property, not yours. Thus the answer to these questions:



The answer is YES. They can "takeover" any mod that you make and do whatever they want with it, be it developing, editing, updating or monetizing said mod.
From my understanding this is also valid in regards to any intellectual property tied to your mod, so for example - if your mod spawned a series of books, a standalone game or anything else, Blizzard would have rights to it as well.

From a more practical point of view, such scenario is extremely unlikely - this point is pretty much a safety mechanism in case anything like DOTA ever happens again and let's face it, chances that your mods grow even remotely as big as DOTA are very slim. Thus, unless you are hell bent on trying to use Warcraft 3 to spawn a separate intellectual property (and you actually believe you can manage that), you probably shouldn't be worried as chances that Blizzard will snatch your work are pretty much next to none.



This means that you cannot use any copyrighted material in custom maps, unless you can prove that the copyright owner granted you the rights to use his property.

Now, you can easily find things like music or art that can be used for free in non-profit projects, so you can safely use those. I also believe that anything that people post on the Hive is automatically given such a permission (i.e. the author agrees to grant the right to use his work by other people in non-profit projects), so there's also that.

Other stuff... Well, technically you can't use it without getting permission from the copyright holder first, but - let's face it, Warcraft 3 modding is a pretty niche and small thing, so chances are that even if you use something that you shouldn't, nobody will really notice or care about it do take legal action against you - you'd have to be shit out of luck to have someone not do more than ask you to stop using his content or provide more visible credits.

This obviously doesn't apply to any monetization attempts, but as you will see in a moment, these are generally prohibited anyway.



In short, you cannot make money off of custom games, i.e. you can't monetize your mod in any way. And now, while it's rather unlikely that Blizzard's legal team will come in contact with you due to copyright issues, it's actually quite possible that they might do that over any monetization attempt.

Also, if you read the last sentence, you will notice that you mod cannot contain any features or content that can be unlocked by paying money, so obviously any kind of paid skins are considered illegal.



Here you go - Blizzard gives you permission to receive donations for your work, but... There's some extra rules, such as this one:



What it essentially means is that you cannot give anything for users who decide to donate to you, so once again - no special skins or other rewards, unless you want to risk getting a very "nice" e-mail from Blizzard's legal department.

---

So yeah... Generally I feel like the notion of monetizing Warcraft 3 mods is rather stupid. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but let's face it - you're rather unlikely to get much (or even any) money from your mod and trying to do so will only put you at a risk of getting in legal trouble. Personally, I'd advise against it.

---


It's not suspicious. It's called marketing - sure, there is no direct profit to be had, but there is an indirect one.

I won't go into much detail here, but the general idea is that if your customer base is happy and well treated, you will eventually get more money out of it. If you're a dick to your customers, they will eventually move on to other products and you will get squat.

Having a nice modding community that creates nice custom games in your product won't upset anyone, but it might make quite a lot of people happy.
Giving modders a hard time won't really make anyone happy, but it might upset a lot of people who like custom content.


A commercial sale is when you someone gives you money to get something in return.
A donation is an act of giving someone money without getting anything in return (bar satisfaction and a "thank you").

Thus, I'd argue that getting a special skin for money is actually a purchase (or very, very close to it), not a donation.


You are allowed to have a Patreon page or provide some sort of a donation link, so that people can send you money if they feel like it.

The difference between this and having a visual perk in-game is that the latter creates a situation where the gameplay experience is different for people who sent you money and for those who didn't. The thing is that some people might consider your mod to be more enjoyable with that skin, thus they might see their experience as inferior to the one of the people who donated. And in order to get that better experience (or unlock it faster), they are required to pay money.

And, since some people would sent you money not to show appreciation for your hard work, but to get that better experience - thus they would pay to get something in return, i.e. they would be making an in-game purchase.


Warcraft 3 is not the only Blizzard game and some of their other games have in-game purchases, so if someone spends like 5$ to get something in a Blizzard game's mod, that's a potential 5$ that he won't spend on Blizzard content. Thus your logic of "Blizzard won't get this money anyway, so why do they care" is false.

However, that's not the primary reason why they are restricting in-game purchases.

If you followed the development of Starcraft II, at some point there an idea to create in-game marketplace, where people would be able to sell maps or in-game custom content. This idea was scrapped due to... legal issues. Allowing third parties to trade for real money in a game creates a lot of legal hurdles, which Blizzard doesn't want to deal with.

Before you say "but Diablo 3 had Real Money Auction House" - yes, it had. And if you followed it's development, you'd know that there were still a lot of legal problems with it, even despite the fact that people were selling in-game content that was generated by Blizzard, not custom made intellectual property with potential use of assets that break copyright laws or suffers from ownership and compensation issues.

To be fair, I totally understand that Blizzard doesn't want to deal with that crap.
Oh thanks a lot man for the informative response. This clears everything up!


Nah man I'm not a map maker or have plans developing anything. I was just interested to know since I always wondered in my childhood and thought of custom maps as something impervious beings to copy right which made me wonder. But then again back then taking IP seriously was not a thing and I used to think in my country I bought Legit Warcraft 3 for 1$ and was playing legally on Garena until later I grew up and realized what happened. Things have improved a lot now tho. Obviously Warcraft 3 is not big anymore.

My interest tho was ignited in Warcraft once again after hearing possible rumors of Remake, wondering how will they handle custom maps since most other games, specially new ones don't even allow them legally anymore.

Tho I think it would be cool I agree Blizzard won't want to deal with the legal issues. For that Blizzard has to act out as a platform for Modders kinda like Youtube is for videos. However there will be hurdles as Blizzard will have to take some responsibility for Modders Copyright offending or doing other stupid stuff and Blizzard won't want to deal with it, specially if Warcraft is not a huge thing.

I don't think the financial part is a problem but can also be beneficial for Blizzard if they charge a cut to compensate. Still Blizzard is a developer not a platform so I don't it's worth the risk for them. Plus I don't think the editor will attract as much attention anymore as it did before either.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,808
I present a case; you are an art developer and you made some custom icons for a W3 map. You finish your project and everything goes well.
You then use those icons on another project you have, be it a W3 map or anything (ie. you are advertising those icons in a work page).
Suddenly Blizzard calls you and says those icons are property of them, and that they didn't consent in the advertising or the particular use in which you are employing them. This is freaking bullshit, is like if a resources touches the editor, is bound to some instant or overcoming property restriction, and if it's not then you are good to go.
Not if you publish them beforehand somewhere.
 
Level 8
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
248
Because of how the clause 3 is redactated, one must distinct the Custom Game itself -the map as an inmaterial thing/idea-, and every other different interests, ie. singular resources used.
In clause 3 you would say that there are "automatic transfers" (those that are assigned right of the bat, by the merit of operating the license) and "overcoming transfers" (those assigned at arbitrary recquest of Blizzard). Determining which map asset belongs to which one is something subject to interpretation, but in the end the terms are not very promising for the end user, ie. you my friend Ilya.

The first ones refers -atleast- to the Custom Game itself. Nothing to object here. Based on this, it happens that every map here on the Hive are actually theirs, as extension of their license.
If you apply this to it's absurd extremes then Blizzard also owns all map genres, by virtue of extension (since the "genre" is made by the maps, and the maps are owned by Blizzard boys and girls).
This is the "Blizzard" owns your map idea approach, that in intellectual property isn't even endorsed at all and that is clearly excessively ambitious. Such ambition still happens from time time (PUBG v/s Fortinite, the first threatened to sue the second for "trying to emulate the same experience the first one is known for" or something like that), so don't be fooled by the absurdity.
So the license extension kinds of limitates to the map not as the idea, but as the digital map itself, ie. W3Dota6.11.w3x; MaulWarsTD.w3x; LOAP.w3x, etc. But not all is said here, because the automatic assign catches, regarding the digital map we delimitated as the object; it's rights, titles and interests.

The second ones i suppose refer to every correlated (with the first one) right, including of course my little friends aka interests. I would include here, by mere guessing, the singular resources used on the map (except those of property of non-contractors).

The question is what interests i transfered to Blizzard, apart from the map itself?. I can't transfer the map idea, let alone the genre (think of somebody that wants to attribute itself the sci-fi book genre), because intellectual property in a map genre doesn't exist, for now, unless you are a major bullshitter, but what you can do, and what some companies had DONE is to create a silly (some not that silly actually) catalog of inmaterial concepts that kind or could worth money (in case of doubt, you bet what they do right?), ie. X company doesn't have the intellectual property of the battle royale/moba genre, but it has an intellectual interest in it or a reputation/moral dignity relating to it, or that Y company has incurred on unfair competition by emulating our company and that we need to repair the damage, etc.
This rampant monetization of everything is coming to stay and to progress, and while today companies assign value (voluntarily, as a comercial practice) to things like, clientele, reputation, know-hows, etc, you have to remember that those "goods" were not actually a thing back in the days, we are actually creating them from nowhere (not from nowhere, but the the actual value of such goods is always a guess work).

But there MUST be some rights or interests that are not transfered right of the bat, because otherwise, why Blizzard has the faculty for you to "agree to execute future assignments promptly upon receiving such a request from Blizzard". This is still key and should be noted that you are bound to do the transfer (as real or fictional deliver of the asset), but it's not said that the transfer is preceded or not by an actual sale (pay me first Blizz) or donation.

In the end the word interest is extremely vague, that in comercial practice extends to all that can be avaluable in money (something that is changeable and with a natural tendency to increase it's catalog) , and can extend the license of Blizzard a little too much, and at it's complete will:
1. The expectative that Blizzard has in that you transfer a determinated asset is an interest.
2. The map idea itself or it's genre/concepts is an interest related to the digital map asset.
I'm talking about new genres/ideas of course. I'm pretty sure the Hero system was perfected by Blizzard. Or not?.
In extreme and obviously stupid cases, Blizzard could (should they decide) extend the license to ideas and concepts that are actually protected by intellectual property rights, ie. Monopoly.w3x. If it's in the editor it is mine. And what is mine? The map and all it's "interests". This potential reductio ad absurdum is what makes it neccesary to interpret "interest" very strictly, and even restrictly. Altough this is nothing new and even plain common sense (sorry if you get mad about the Monopoly analogy), we still have some precedents in the game industry of some magnanimous people and companies that want to reinvent the concept of property/ideas/inspiration/etc to suit their needs. I'm pretty sure Blizzard is not one of those.

About the publishing problem, you made a good point. About that i can say the following;
1. If you are the owner of the published assets then nothing should be said here.
But by the faculty of Blizzard in clause 3, you can potentially lose the property of the published asset.
Blizzard will just ignore the contract you made with the publisher, unless, somehow obliged to respect it (don't know a real hypothesis here, except for some lease of goods principles). Your relation with the publisher will be terminated, as you are no longer the owner of the asset, as my guess is that publisher terms are similar to those of a lease of services. There is a chance that you are also violating some terms with the publisher, by transfering the property of the asset.
2. If you are not the owner, especially if Blizzard already executed the faculty of clause 3, or if Blizzard arguments that such resource was transfered automatically upon using the license (it was an "interest" in the map you transfered to us) then you are up for some trouble.

TL/DR; Blizzard owns the digital map you created, they can even own some assets relating to the map should they decide to do so (most likely no, because they are a huge company, that are known for polishing and perfecting existing resources and ideas, chances are that they will just recreate what you did even better; on a sidenote i see Blizzard as tinkerers and perfectors, rather than pioneers or "seekers").
They can't own your map ideas. In fact you also can't, unless a precedent is set in this area, something that is not that ridiculous.

EDIT: this post was a real mess, i edited it some more.
 
Last edited:

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 63
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,192
First of all would it be illegal for me to for example put a copy righted music into my mod?
Not if you have a licence to do so with the music. Otherwise yes it would be illegal.
I have seen some maps do it and get away with it.
Getting away with a crime does not make it legal.
Secondly is it okay for me to attempt to monetize a map i made?
Yes in the form of donator support or Patreon. Yes in the form of premium maps in StarCraft II. No in the form of paid Warcraft III maps.
For example let's say for a map I made I can make it that if you donate on Pateron or steam or something.
Yes that is allowed.
will add a code to the game which checks your name and allows you to have a skin when you are playing my mod?
Technically not allowed. People still get away with it in StarCraft II but practically everyone hates it. You can of course add donators names to a list and such.

In StarCraft II it violates discriminating against players in the ToU, however generally it gets overlooked for trivial skins and cosmetics. In Warcraft III the platform does not support monetization in the form of selling content to players.
Do I get any copyright protection for the mods I make?
Yes the intellectual property contained in your map or mod is protected by the rules of your country as with all unique creations. No your map or mod is not protected because you do not own it, Blizzard does.
Let's say for example could Blizzard technically just Takeover Icefrog's Dota and say mine now haha and Then Montezie the game mod and update it themselves?
Yes they could do that however it is extremely unlikely they ever will as that sort of moves will not make them much money due to how common DotA players pirate Warcraft III and it will anger a lot of people.
Let me know what you think?
StarCraft II fully supports monetization. So far there are about 3 premium maps developed by third parties that Blizzard endorses sales of. Obviously one needs to be very serious to create such a map, they will never be some trash like LoaP or Maul Wars.
 
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
StarCraft II fully supports monetization. So far there are about 3 premium maps developed by third parties that Blizzard endorses sales of. Obviously one needs to be very serious to create such a map, they will never be some trash like LoaP or Maul Wars.
Thanks for the response. Oh Didn't about Starcraft II custom maps and monetization. That's contrary to what I believed then.

Also just a final question tho a funny one I thought:

Can I get copyright striked by Blizzard themselves? I know it's weird but imagine if i have a really popular Warcraft 3 or Starcraft II custom map. And I decide to add a popular WOW soundtrack like invincible or Nightsong to it. I do give credit but don't ask for permission since obviously I'm already using Blizzard content anyways.

Would that be a problem? What If i use something that is not even closely related such as an overwatch soundtrack?
 
Level 20
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,264
Using Blizzard assets is completely fine - I can't remember where I've read it, but I'm fairly sure that in one of the legal documents they gave you the right to use their stuff in non-profit projects :)
 
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
Technically it would be illegal since people could potentially extract that soundtrack from the map and use it without them buying the soundtrack from Blizzard beforehand.
Using Blizzard assets is completely fine - I can't remember where I've read it, but I'm fairly sure that in one of the legal documents they gave you the right to use their stuff in non-profit projects :)
Yea, I'm talking about things that are available not soundtracks behind paywalls (tho I don't know if Blizzard even has those).

The soundtracks I've mentioned are viable on Youtube anyways just like most of the Blizzard related which is viable for free on the Internet.

Obviously I can use anything Warcraft 3 related in my map. However for example if I use WoW or overwatch content without asking for permission or even go as far as using Activision's content. Would that be ok?

edit: @Dr Super Good You were right again. This seems interesting, wonder how it will turn out:
StarCraft 2 announces its first paid custom game modes | Blizzard Watch
 
Last edited:

Rui

Rui

Level 41
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
7,550
Already there are plenty of complete responses (wow @MasterBlaster & @disruptive_ :p). So, that EULA says in a nasty and covered up way «we'll do what we like, when we like, if we feel like it». That's sort of scandalous, actually. Arbitrariness is the opposite of what a justice system should be.

I'll only add that Warcraft mappers are in luck that companies can't (haven't?) put their bots scanning Battle.Net or Wc3 databases for copyright infringement. In case you don't know, there are companies doing that and filling in infringement complaints automatically, even though the law specifically states that these complaints need to be human written. Giants get away with it... well, because they're giants.

@MasterBlaster, a question. Is that EULA applicable to Warcraft III? I thought the all-of-your-maps-are-belong-to-us EULA came with StarCraft II, but I reckon people installing Warcraft III are not presented with that version of it?
 
Level 8
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
248
Can I get copyright striked by Blizzard themselves? I know it's weird but imagine if i have a really popular Warcraft 3 or Starcraft II custom map. And I decide to add a popular WOW soundtrack like invincible or Nightsong to it. I do give credit but don't ask for permission since obviously I'm already using Blizzard content anyways.

Would that be a problem? What If i use something that is not even closely related such as an overwatch soundtrack?


CG = Custom Game
EUL/EULA = End User License/End User License Agreement

The owner of the map is Blizzard, and the owner of the resources could be you, Blizzard or third parties.
The luck of YOUR resources would be determined by the 2 posts i made, which tried to present multiple interpretations: 1. such resources are owned by Blizzard automatically/instantly as map interests, by mere operation of the license (when this happens? just by saving the map i guess, but of course the effects are produced when you publish the map); 2. such resources are actually yours, but Blizzard has a faculty to POLITELY asking you to transfer them, out of neccessity (i pity them now).

The luck of the resources owned by third parties are defined by your relations with them. If those resources are copyrighted, then you must have a license (with those third parties) that actually allows for using them "in non-profit" endeavour (wc3 mapping is restricted precisely to this). Note that violating intellectual property rights, and a large etcétera of related interests and rights (clause 4 in CG) is also a violation of the CG license contract. Also note that altough Blizzard is the owner of the map, if your map has some copyrighted material without licensing, then by basic contractual principles (the infractor is not Blizzard but you, and you don't have a real subordination relation with them, you are not a worker or dependant, you don't represent them by any means, altough i made a reserved opinion about this) the responsable is you, and most likely, only you. Also read the point 7 in the EULA (a just in case clause, should Blizzard report any damage you are obliged to repair it) that is of course incorporated in the CG license contract by its (*) point 6. So no, you can't screw Blizzard by beign an internet pirate, unless an experimented lawyer tries to argue that you are actually representing Blizzard somehow (ridiculous but brave), and even then you might need to pay them (ok man, but you keep me unscathed right).

The luck of Blizzard resources are defined by your relations with them also. But hey, you have a contract, two in fact if you are a nitpicky guy; the EULA and the CG. The EULA limits the license for all Blizzard Games in the point 1.C (a large etcétera, also note the tender "esports" limitation), and the CG (the CG also applies the EULA, even if you somehow, ie. don't own a Blizzard product but you are producing a W3map) in the point 4 (not a limitation of end user use, but rather a limitation of the license itself) and 5 (non commercial use only, the key one). Also, and this is a bit hilarious, you can't COPY or REPLICATING (those words give me something) Heroes of the Storm or Overwatch with your w3 map (you bet the heros of the storm limitation is due to the fact that Blizzard still resents the "DOTA case" while thinking "We lost a lot of money here, but never again") by express disposition of clause 2 ("you may ONLY recreate..."). In conclusion, for the Blizzard resources thing, accepted in general terms (also remember the map is theirs afterall), the limitations and some conditions you got to keep in mind (those with some kind of relation of the problem at hand) are (in order of plausibility): 1. the key non commercial use (Point 5 CG/Point C.3 EULA licenses), 2. reverse engineering (Point C.1 EULA license; i put this because i don't know how people extract icons/music from Blizzard Games) for obtaining resources, 3. the express prohibition on emulation of Overwatch and HOTS; EDIT: AND Stracraft II (Point 3 CG license; they say re-creation, only doable if you somehow import all resources of HOTS into your map and make a HOTS emulator, remember "ideas" and genres can't be owned yet), 4. if Blizzard somehow reports a damage by your resource using (Point 7 EULA) then you will be sued, 5. if you somehow violate a law (of your country? not even close; "the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware" my friend, excluding even the internation principles accepted by international commerce and trading practices) by using Blizzard resources.
Also keep in mind that those resource are Blizzards (if you ever though that your not so modified icon/model is yours), you can't attribute their property by any means, and if you ever forget that, Blizzard will vehemently shout; "With the sole exception of the Licensors’ Games, Blizzard is the owner or licensee of all right, title, and interest in and to the Platform, including the Games that are produced and developed by Blizzard (“Blizzard Games”), Custom Games derived from a Blizzard Game, ACCOUNTS (see that coming), and all of the FEATURES (this is the bullshit one) and COMPONENTS thereof".

So, that EULA says in a nasty and covered up way «we'll do what we like, when we like, if we feel like it»
In regards of termination of the end of user license "Blizzard reserves the right to terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason, or for no reason (thanks), with or without notice to you (much appreciated)." So in the end why are we following all these dispositions, if Blizzard can terminate the license at will?, are you bluffing us all along Blizzard?

But don't get me wrong, because an in game editor is real pandora box. And they got to keep covered a bit or a lot more. Also the unilteral termination clause can also be explained because the license doesn't have an objetive temporal limit (yay for us i guess), so how to terminate it? Blizzard: It's termination time or, Blizzard: It's new license terms time.

Nobody can deny that Blizzard games, assets, resources, are theirs, and should recieve protection, the thing is that with the editor things get more tricky. Map editors can potentially create value themselves, and thus for themselves. Work and effort is work afterall.
Also, still at this time, you can't attribute yourself the property of entire map genres or game features, even if you are the pioneer of such things. This is endorsed by the intellectual property actual paradigm that is not that ambitious, ie. Blizzard don't own "hooded archers with grey hair", they own, to a point of mere formality (reduced to the name and maybe some intrinsic features) the concept of "Sylvanus Windrunner". Things may change. You got the Disney legal lobby cases, you got the Pubg v/s Fortnite case.
Let's say that Blizzard in the CG license grants me the exclusive right to "Recreate the RTS with orcs and humans games we all know and love". You would say, atleast: Why? Blizzard you don't own those things, so you don't have the right to grant it or transfer it to me or to anybody, and who owns "orcs" anyway (Was it Tokien? Did he even bother to assert his ownership over that?).
 
Last edited:
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
CG = Custom Game
EUL/EULA = End User License/End User License Agreement

The owner of the map is Blizzard, and the owner of the resources could be you, Blizzard or third parties.
The luck of YOUR resources would be determined by the 2 posts i made, which tried to present multiple interpretations: 1. such resources are owned by Blizzard automatically/instantly as map interests, by mere operation of the license (when this happens? just by saving the map i guess, but of course the effects are produced when you publish the map); 2. such resources are actually yours, but Blizzard has a faculty to POLITELY asking you to transfer them, out of neccessity (i pity them now).

The luck of the resources owned by third parties are defined by your relations with them. If those resources are copyrighted, then you must have a license (with those third parties) that actually allows for using them "in non-profit" endeavour (wc3 mapping is restricted precisely to this). Note that violating intellectual property rights, and a large etcétera of related interests and rights (clause 4 in CG) is also a violation of the CG license contract. Also note that altough Blizzard is the owner of the map, if your map has some copyrighted material without licensing, then by basic contractual principles (the infractor is not Blizzard but you, and you don't have a real subordination relation with them, you are not a worker or dependant, you don't represent them by any means, altough i made a reserved opinion about this) the responsable is you, and most likely, only you. Also read the point 7 in the EULA (a just in case clause, should Blizzard report any damage you are obliged to repair it) that is of course incorporated in the CG license contract by its (*) point 6. So no, you can't screw Blizzard by beign an internet pirate, unless an experimented lawyer tries to argue that you are actually representing Blizzard somehow (ridiculous but brave), and even then you might need to pay them (ok man, but you keep me unscathed right).

The luck of Blizzard resources are defined by your relations with them also. But hey, you have a contract, two in fact if you are a nitpicky guy; the EULA and the CG. The EULA limits the license for all Blizzard Games in the point 1.C (a large etcétera, also note the tender "esports" limitation), and the CG (the CG also applies the EULA, even if you somehow, ie. don't own a Blizzard product but you are producing a W3map) in the point 4 (not a limitation of end user use, but rather a limitation of the license itself) and 5 (non commercial use only, the key one). Also, and this is a bit hilarious, you can't COPY or REPLICATING (those words give me something) Heroes of the Storm or Overwatch with your w3 map (you bet the heros of the storm limitation is due to the fact that Blizzard still resents the "DOTA case" while thinking "We lost a lot of money here, but never again") by express disposition of clause 2 ("you may ONLY recreate..."). In conclusion, for the Blizzard resources thing, accepted in general terms (also remember the map is theirs afterall), the limitations and some conditions you got to keep in mind (those with some kind of relation of the problem at hand) are (in order of plausibility): 1. the key non commercial use (Point 5 CG/Point C.3 EULA licenses), 2. reverse engineering (Point C.1 EULA license; i put this because i don't know how people extract icons/music from Blizzard Games) for obtaining resources, 3. the express prohibition on emulation of Overwatch and HOTS; EDIT: AND Stracraft II (Point 3 CG license; they say re-creation, only doable if you somehow import all resources of HOTS into your map and make a HOTS emulator, remember "ideas" and genres can't be owned yet), 4. if Blizzard somehow reports a damage by your resource using (Point 7 EULA) then you will be sued, 5. if you somehow violate a law (of your country? not even close; "the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware" my friend, excluding even the internation principles accepted by international commerce and trading practices) by using Blizzard resources.
Also keep in mind that those resource are Blizzards (if you ever though that your not so modified icon/model is yours), you can't attribute their property by any means, and if you ever forget that, Blizzard will vehemently shout; "With the sole exception of the Licensors’ Games, Blizzard is the owner or licensee of all right, title, and interest in and to the Platform, including the Games that are produced and developed by Blizzard (“Blizzard Games”), Custom Games derived from a Blizzard Game, ACCOUNTS (see that coming), and all of the FEATURES (this is the bullshit one) and COMPONENTS thereof".


In regards of termination of the end of user license "Blizzard reserves the right to terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason, or for no reason (thanks), with or without notice to you (much appreciated)." So in the end why are we following all these dispositions, if Blizzard can terminate the license at will?, are you bluffing us all along Blizzard?

But don't get me wrong, because an in game editor is real pandora box. And they got to keep covered a bit or a lot more. Also the unilteral termination clause can also be explained because the license doesn't have an objetive temporal limit (yay for us i guess), so how to terminate it? Blizzard: It's termination time or, Blizzard: It's new license terms time.

Nobody can deny that Blizzard games, assets, resources, are theirs, and should recieve protection, the thing is that with the editor things get more tricky. Map editors can potentially create value themselves, and thus for themselves. Work and effort is work afterall.
Also, still at this time, you can't attribute yourself the property of entire map genres or game features, even if you are the pioneer of such things. This is endorsed by the intellectual property actual paradigm that is not that ambitious, ie. Blizzard don't own "hooded archers with grey hair", they own, to a point of mere formality (reduced to the name and maybe some intrinsic features) the concept of "Sylvanus Windrunner". Things may change. You got the Disney legal lobby cases, you got the Pubg v/s Fortnite case.
Let's say that Blizzard in the CG license grants me the exclusive right to "Recreate the RTS with orcs and humans games we all know and love". You would say, atleast: Why? Blizzard you don't own those things, so you don't have the right to grant it or transfer it to me or to anybody, and who owns "orcs" anyway (Was it Tokien? Did he even bother to assert his ownership over that?).
Thanks. hmm I see now. I think Blizzard really needs to update the CG.
 
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
CG = Custom Game
EUL/EULA = End User License/End User License Agreement

The owner of the map is Blizzard, and the owner of the resources could be you, Blizzard or third parties.
The luck of YOUR resources would be determined by the 2 posts i made, which tried to present multiple interpretations: 1. such resources are owned by Blizzard automatically/instantly as map interests, by mere operation of the license (when this happens? just by saving the map i guess, but of course the effects are produced when you publish the map); 2. such resources are actually yours, but Blizzard has a faculty to POLITELY asking you to transfer them, out of neccessity (i pity them now).

The luck of the resources owned by third parties are defined by your relations with them. If those resources are copyrighted, then you must have a license (with those third parties) that actually allows for using them "in non-profit" endeavour (wc3 mapping is restricted precisely to this). Note that violating intellectual property rights, and a large etcétera of related interests and rights (clause 4 in CG) is also a violation of the CG license contract. Also note that altough Blizzard is the owner of the map, if your map has some copyrighted material without licensing, then by basic contractual principles (the infractor is not Blizzard but you, and you don't have a real subordination relation with them, you are not a worker or dependant, you don't represent them by any means, altough i made a reserved opinion about this) the responsable is you, and most likely, only you. Also read the point 7 in the EULA (a just in case clause, should Blizzard report any damage you are obliged to repair it) that is of course incorporated in the CG license contract by its (*) point 6. So no, you can't screw Blizzard by beign an internet pirate, unless an experimented lawyer tries to argue that you are actually representing Blizzard somehow (ridiculous but brave), and even then you might need to pay them (ok man, but you keep me unscathed right).

The luck of Blizzard resources are defined by your relations with them also. But hey, you have a contract, two in fact if you are a nitpicky guy; the EULA and the CG. The EULA limits the license for all Blizzard Games in the point 1.C (a large etcétera, also note the tender "esports" limitation), and the CG (the CG also applies the EULA, even if you somehow, ie. don't own a Blizzard product but you are producing a W3map) in the point 4 (not a limitation of end user use, but rather a limitation of the license itself) and 5 (non commercial use only, the key one). Also, and this is a bit hilarious, you can't COPY or REPLICATING (those words give me something) Heroes of the Storm or Overwatch with your w3 map (you bet the heros of the storm limitation is due to the fact that Blizzard still resents the "DOTA case" while thinking "We lost a lot of money here, but never again") by express disposition of clause 2 ("you may ONLY recreate..."). In conclusion, for the Blizzard resources thing, accepted in general terms (also remember the map is theirs afterall), the limitations and some conditions you got to keep in mind (those with some kind of relation of the problem at hand) are (in order of plausibility): 1. the key non commercial use (Point 5 CG/Point C.3 EULA licenses), 2. reverse engineering (Point C.1 EULA license; i put this because i don't know how people extract icons/music from Blizzard Games) for obtaining resources, 3. the express prohibition on emulation of Overwatch and HOTS; EDIT: AND Stracraft II (Point 3 CG license; they say re-creation, only doable if you somehow import all resources of HOTS into your map and make a HOTS emulator, remember "ideas" and genres can't be owned yet), 4. if Blizzard somehow reports a damage by your resource using (Point 7 EULA) then you will be sued, 5. if you somehow violate a law (of your country? not even close; "the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware" my friend, excluding even the internation principles accepted by international commerce and trading practices) by using Blizzard resources.
Also keep in mind that those resource are Blizzards (if you ever though that your not so modified icon/model is yours), you can't attribute their property by any means, and if you ever forget that, Blizzard will vehemently shout; "With the sole exception of the Licensors’ Games, Blizzard is the owner or licensee of all right, title, and interest in and to the Platform, including the Games that are produced and developed by Blizzard (“Blizzard Games”), Custom Games derived from a Blizzard Game, ACCOUNTS (see that coming), and all of the FEATURES (this is the bullshit one) and COMPONENTS thereof".


In regards of termination of the end of user license "Blizzard reserves the right to terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason, or for no reason (thanks), with or without notice to you (much appreciated)." So in the end why are we following all these dispositions, if Blizzard can terminate the license at will?, are you bluffing us all along Blizzard?

But don't get me wrong, because an in game editor is real pandora box. And they got to keep covered a bit or a lot more. Also the unilteral termination clause can also be explained because the license doesn't have an objetive temporal limit (yay for us i guess), so how to terminate it? Blizzard: It's termination time or, Blizzard: It's new license terms time.

Nobody can deny that Blizzard games, assets, resources, are theirs, and should recieve protection, the thing is that with the editor things get more tricky. Map editors can potentially create value themselves, and thus for themselves. Work and effort is work afterall.
Also, still at this time, you can't attribute yourself the property of entire map genres or game features, even if you are the pioneer of such things. This is endorsed by the intellectual property actual paradigm that is not that ambitious, ie. Blizzard don't own "hooded archers with grey hair", they own, to a point of mere formality (reduced to the name and maybe some intrinsic features) the concept of "Sylvanus Windrunner". Things may change. You got the Disney legal lobby cases, you got the Pubg v/s Fortnite case.
Let's say that Blizzard in the CG license grants me the exclusive right to "Recreate the RTS with orcs and humans games we all know and love". You would say, atleast: Why? Blizzard you don't own those things, so you don't have the right to grant it or transfer it to me or to anybody, and who owns "orcs" anyway (Was it Tokien? Did he even bother to assert his ownership over that?).
Hello Sorry I just thought of an interesting scenario I was wondering what would the result be:

For exmaple:

I decide to make a custom map and share it on Blizz platform. Map becomes famous. I also had Two Steps from Hell which is a copyrighted music as well as some LOTR Models and stuff added in my map. The copyright owners of those Titles get angry and take action. Would Blizzard technically be responsible to take my map down and possibly ban me? What If Blizzard is slow in doing that? Would they be fined or anything for it? I know Facebook and Youtube had to deal and be sued for these sorta things.


So has Blizzard already gotten themselves in copyright trouble? Would responsibility of Blizzard be different for example in this situation if they had a license with me which allowed me sell adds and cosmetics on my map with Blizzard taking a portion or would they be in trouble all the same?
 
Level 8
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
248
Hello Sorry I just thought of an interesting scenario I was wondering what would the result be:

For exmaple:

I decide to make a custom map and share it on Blizz platform. Map becomes famous. I also had Two Steps from Hell which is a copyrighted music as well as some LOTR Models and stuff added in my map. The copyright owners of those Titles get angry and take action. Would Blizzard technically be responsible to take my map down and possibly ban me? What If Blizzard is slow in doing that? Would they be fined or anything for it? I know Facebook and Youtube had to deal and be sued for these sorta things.


So has Blizzard already gotten themselves in copyright trouble? Would responsibility of Blizzard be different for example in this situation if they had a license with me which allowed me sell adds and cosmetics on my map with Blizzard taking a portion or would they be in trouble all the same?

1. In a strictly formal point of view De Iure (the contracts, the "law", literally), Blizzard can't be responsible (read: lose money), for your vulnerations. Why? because you don't either 1. work for them (in my country this is called "responsability for the deeds of others" -extremely lazy traduction-, and is very strict and silogistic on cases when an employer ends up paying for the "damaging deeds" of its workers, but this is not the case here) or 2. represent them in any other formal way, ie. you're the CEO acting as such. You are a mere licensee. They basically gave you a free loan, and if you mess things up, then it's your problem. But in this special loan they also own what you produce, kind of.
I already said on some posts that an experimented lawyer could configure a De Facto case of representation. I even said, as reserved opinion of course, that the Blizzard license contract (altough free), looks more like a freaking work contract.

2. Since they own the map, as a digital thing, should a third party sue them, then most likely these third parties will demand Blizzard the map takedown or the asset depuration, exclusively (not money). Think of how Youtube reacts to copyright content in videos. Blizzard will then have to choose to mount a defense (most likely a dilatory one, can't think of nothing right now), or just accept this point, basically making a cost benefit analysis. You are not responsable for the publication of the map on a Blizzard platform. If the map is ie. on the HIVE, then guess who could recieve some Blizzard notification (HIVE of course). And whatever they could demand to YOU regarding this aspect? Erasing the map from your computer? LOL.

3. Keep in mind that going to court is costly, specially paying people like me to talk solemnly and with latinisms, so i highly doubt that you will ever recieve a demand. What could happen is: the third party will send a "cease and desist" thing to Blizzard to simply take the map down. They may not even tell you anything. I highly doubt that the third parties will demand money. I highly doubt that these third parties will even take notice if the modding scene is still small. The thing is that Blizzard is in a very confortable spot, they can even choose to not be very diligent in reviewing the maps that will be put on their platforms, and just react accodingly (see next Point) as they recieve the cease and desists (bluffs) or some other bluffing bullshit. The only one that loses printer ink here is the third party.

4. Should they go to court and demand money (this almost never happens directly), then Blizzard will redirect the demand to you, Mr. Responsable (Point 1). If the defense is good enough, then Blizzard will desvirtuate all the premises of the demand precisely based on Point 1. You demanded the wrong guy, GTFO. Case closed. Then the third party will have to demand again (with it's ego severly hampered, and most likely with an entire new law firm), or maybe some procedural shortcut so you can be "summoned". Here we are applying procedural law, and i only know (not really) the one of my country. Sorry.

5. Vulnerating a third party property right (like what you presented) is ALSO a vulneration of the CG License Agreement. What does this mean? First, Blizzard can choose to terminate the license with you (in fact they can terminate it at any time and for whatever reason in fact, "or even for no reason"); Second, it configures supletory contractual responsability (by supletory i mean "implicit", is violation of a law, "the contract", your "own" -don't laugh- will, basically it can be as a clause or not), meaning that, should Blizzard report a damage by this configurated illicit, then... well you know it already. I don't know what's the policy of the HIVE here, but remember that Blizzard is on a confortable spot, they will adapt. They surely have to concentrate on the good business, like making imaginary cards. EDIT: It's good to note that the clause 4 of the CGLA is redactated in the form of a declaration ("you represent and warrant"), so to configure your responsability the infraction of the clause and the damage ("tort") is enough (read: defense against such demand from Blizzard becomes very hard).

6. In a highly unlikely scenario that Blizzard and not you results responsable, and is bounded to compensate and pay, then Blizzard has access to the clause 7 (EULA). Basically you're bound the keep them unscathed in all respects, while operating the license of their games and the editors. This is a warranty you made with them. Note that this differs greatly from the supletory contractual responsability (here you must be a bad guy and vulnerate a contractual clause to pay them money). We can call this strict contractual responsability.

7. Blizzard is seeing some potential on the custom games and already did some programs regarding this. But remember that the current EULA and the CGLA is restricted to non-commercial use. These are our rules. If you vulnerate this, then we go to the conclusions of Point 5.
When i have the time i will start reading the contracts of the premium map system on Starcraft II (or the legal insight), so i can answer your last question. I'm anticipating that commercial relations are profesional, and these new agreements will mix the license with Blizzard with some profesionality and bone fides. This means that YOU will have to take the time and get the licenses for those LOTR assets, or recreate a theme yourself. The good thing is that you could use Blizzard assets, and this is exactly what they are expecting (kind of escalating the free license, that "looks-like-a-freaking-work-contract", into a more serious free license, that also "looks-like-a-freaking-work-contract").
 
Last edited:
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
1. In a strictly formal point of view De Iure (the contracts, the "law", literally), Blizzard can't be responsible (read: lose money), for your vulnerations. Why? because you don't either 1. work for them (in my country this is called "responsability for the deeds of others" -extremely lazy traduction-, and is very strict and silogistic on cases when an employer ends up paying for the "damaging deeds" of its workers, but this is not the case here) or 2. represent them in any other formal way, ie. you're the CEO acting as such. You are a mere licensee. They basically gave you a free loan, and if you mess things up, then it's your problem. But in this special loan they also own what you produce, kind of.
I already said on some posts that an experimented lawyer could configure a De Facto case of representation. I even said, as reserved opinion of course, that the Blizzard license contract (altough free), looks more like a freaking work contract.

2. Since they own the map, as a digital thing, should a third party sue them, then most likely these third parties will demand Blizzard the map takedown or the asset depuration, exclusively (not money). Think of how Youtube reacts to copyright content in videos. Blizzard will then have to choose to mount a defense (most likely a dilatory one, can't think of nothing right now), or just accept this point, basically making a cost benefit analysis. You are not responsable for the publication of the map on a Blizzard platform. If the map is ie. on the HIVE, then guess who could recieve some Blizzard notification (HIVE of course). And whatever they could demand to YOU regarding this aspect? Erasing the map from your computer? LOL.

3. Keep in mind that going to court is costly, specially paying people like me to talk solemnly and with latinisms, so i highly doubt that you will ever recieve a demand. What could happen is: the third party will send a "cease and desist" thing to Blizzard to simply take the map down. They may not even tell you anything. I highly doubt that the third parties will demand money. I highly doubt that these third parties will even take notice if the modding scene is still small. The thing is that Blizzard is in a very confortable spot, they can even choose to not be very diligent in reviewing the maps that will be put on their platforms, and just react accodingly (see next Point) as they recieve the cease and desists (bluffs) or some other bluffing bullshit. The only one that loses printer ink here is the third party.

4. Should they go to court and demand money (this almost never happens directly), then Blizzard will redirect the demand to you, Mr. Responsable (Point 1). If the defense is good enough, then Blizzard will desvirtuate all the premises of the demand precisely based on Point 1. You demanded the wrong guy, GTFO. Case closed. Then the third party will have to demand again (with it's ego severly hampered, and most likely with an entire new law firm), or maybe some procedural shortcut so you can be "summoned". Here we are applying procedural law, and i only know (not really) the one of my country. Sorry.

5. Vulnerating a third party property right (like what you presented) is ALSO a vulneration of the CG License Agreement. What does this mean? First, Blizzard can choose to terminate the license with you (in fact they can terminate it at any time and for whatever reason in fact, "or even for no reason"); Second, it configures supletory contractual responsability (by supletory i mean "implicit", is violation of a law, "the contract", your "own" -don't laugh- will, basically it can be as a clause or not), meaning that, should Blizzard report a damage by this configurated illicit, then... well you know it already. I don't know what's the policy of the HIVE here, but remember that Blizzard is on a confortable spot, they will adapt. They surely have to concentrate on the good business, like making imaginary cards. EDIT: It's good to note that the clause 4 of the CGLA is redactated in the form of a declaration ("you represent and warrant"), so to configure your responsability the infraction of the clause and the damage ("tort") is enough (read: defense against such demand from Blizzard becomes very hard).

6. In a highly unlikely scenario that Blizzard and not you results responsable, and is bounded to compensate and pay, then Blizzard has access to the clause 7 (EULA). Basically you're bound the keep them unscathed in all respects, while operating the license of their games and the editors. This is a warranty you made with them. Note that this differs greatly from the supletory contractual responsability (here you must be a bad guy and vulnerate a contractual clause to pay them money). We can call this strict contractual responsability.

7. Blizzard is seeing some potential on the custom games and already did some programs regarding this. But remember that the current EULA and the CGLA is restricted to non-commercial use. These are our rules. If you vulnerate this, then we go to the conclusions of Point 5.
When i have the time i will start reading the contracts of the premium map system on Starcraft II (or the legal insight), so i can answer your last question. I'm anticipating that commercial relations are profesional, and these new agreements will mix the license with Blizzard with some profesionality and bone fides. This means that YOU will have to take the time and get the licenses for those LOTR assets, or recreate a theme yourself. The good thing is that you could use Blizzard assets, and this is exactly what they are expecting (kind of escalating the free license, that "looks-like-a-freaking-work-contract", into a more serious free license, that also "looks-like-a-freaking-work-contract").
Thanks a lot for that man. Sorry one final hypothetical scenario tho this one is a more simple one.

Assume you are a map maker and have a famous map. On the loading page and in game you place your website address and state if players want information about the map they can visit your website. In website bug reports, patch notes and map files for download exists and etc. However there are also ads in the website and other monetization options.


Would this be a violation of EULA section C Part iii line (iv) or CG policy section 5?
 
Level 4
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
38
Pretty sure DotA had some link on the loading screen?
It used to be Icefrogs gmail but If i remember correctly in later versions it was either a link to dota-allstars.com and then playdota.com . However I don't remember if either of those websites were monetized. both don't work anymore for a long time tho so i don't know how i can check.
 
Blizzard can own your map only, the w3x file, nothing else. Can't own the story, otherwise what about warhammer, lord of the rings themed maps? Or even if based of an unknown writer's book. Can't own the gameplay, map can be just a rip from another game (not literal rip, but emulating the gameplay). Can own only mdx file from the models, since the model can be released for multiple platform or even being a rip. There's no chance that Blizzard would take over Arkain universe for example like some people on this site fear.
 
Level 8
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
248
Thanks a lot for that man. Sorry one final hypothetical scenario tho this one is a more simple one.

Assume you are a map maker and have a famous map. On the loading page and in game you place your website address and state if players want information about the map they can visit your website. In website bug reports, patch notes and map files for download exists and etc. However there are also ads in the website and other monetization options.


Would this be a violation of EULA section C Part iii line (iv) or CG policy section 5?

1. Regarding the ad monetization, and thus the entire case, my vicseral answer is YES (to both of the clauses actually), because promoting either the map with ads (not really your question) or the website that supports such map with ads is indeed a commercial operation. The first is flagrant, and the second is of course in "social" greyzone (since it's incipient) but you should have no doubts about it's nature.

Remember that EULA/CGLA doesn't give you commercial rights whatsoever. It happends that formally you are not the map creator, Blizzard is.
In this case your position resembles that of a non lucrative distributor.
Regarding potential ownership you could actully get, and freely monetize, you could potentially copyright your original map invention (you actually can't own the genre, but you could copyright the name) or map procedure (let's say you create an original map mechanic with a structured procedure, just how Blizzard patented Overwatch "Play of the Game" mechanic, NOTE that you copyright it to almost a mere formality, basically the name and the intrinsic algorithm such feature uses), but if i were Blizzard i would exercise on either case, should the circumstance are convenient, the CGLA clause 3, and force a cession of such intellectual property right, as THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN!. I remember doing a hard ramble about if such rights would actually be property of Blizzard automatically or just after they execute their faculty.

2. You got to keep in mind that lots of sites, ie. Youtube, are also taking this matter very seriously and restrict monetization (with ads, just as the case you're presenting) only to those that have commercial rights over the contents they upload, or to the creator. Some provide atleast a way to denounce copyright vulnerations. This should be interpreted as a legal trend.
Note how Youtube monetization (making a channel, submiting content, etc) resembles the case you are presenting, giving the fact that the custom map is property of Blizzard and you are non-lucrative distributor.
Speaking of Youtube and videos, see the Video Policy of Blizzard, reafirming, as if it wasn't enough, the commercial limitation: Blizzard Video Policy Blizzard Legal.

Please NOTE this:
Guidelines for distributing Productions with Blizzard Content
(...)Blizzard Entertainment reserves the right to use its products for all commercial purposes. The only exceptions to this rule are if you participate in partner programs with YouTube, Justin.tv, Blip.tv, Own3d.tv, or Ustream.tv (the “Production Websites”) whereby a Production Website may pay you for views of a Production if you are accepted into their partner program.


3. It also happens that there is special legal opinion relating about this, with not much insight actually, in the very Blizzard page: Blizzard Entertainment:Blizzard FAQ.
Please NOTE this:
1. Can I put my own "home-made" maps on my web site for download? Yes, we encourage players to create maps and trade them on the Internet so long as they are not for sale or profit, nor any other commercial purpose as defined solely by Blizzard Entertainment®.

2. In the EULA, C.III says that: Prohibited Commercial Uses: Exploit, in its entirety or individual components, the Platform for any purpose not expressly authorized by Blizzard, including, without limitation (i)...(v).

4. Conclusion: Basically, Blizzard will define what corresponds to commercial use. EULA/C.III is not exhaustive. Grey areas will be surely used at their convenience. Yours has some grey areas, but should be considered a commercial operation giving the state of things and actual legal trend. Pretty sure the HIVE, as website that publicize Blizzard custom maps, can also resemble your case. I'm interested to see if they actually entertained the idea of going full ad mode, and what kept them from doing so.
If you really want some kind of easy monetization, think of donations. If you want serious money, start a business, altough i don't know if making a game out of the WorldEditor is an actual niche. Still, if i were developing such business i will not even bother reading any legal aspect at first (otherwise you will feel small and shitty), and rather concentrate my efforts on ganing influence, becoming professional in the area (game developing) and pursuing ambitious ventures.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top