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[AoS] Invasion in Duskwood

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Luorax, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Was not laggy for me. But then, I played alone. Could not identify all abbreviations in the multiboard. The unit selection is hard, you also deactivated drawing a selection rect. Clicking through the shop menu is quite time-consuming. As in most other AoS, you do not know where to find the ingredients and items you can/cannot afford are not marked. It should not show previous/next page button if such does not exist. The tooltips are inconvenient, exaggerated in colorful text without highlights and effects and values are extracted above, so you do not really get it reading either of them. Is there any method of fast travelling like teleport? The hero level is not well identifiable in your custom bars. Otherwise, everything seemed pretty standard.

    A tower vanished in my test. This means it still attacked everyone but its model disappeared. See replay shortly before ending.
     

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  2. Luorax

    Luorax

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    - Multiboard abbreviations:
    S stands for (Killing) Spree
    K means Kills
    D means Deaths
    A means Assists
    M means minion kills a.k.a. CS.

    - Well yea, most of the categories do not even need that next button (so far Weapons I is the only one with multiple pages, and it has only one item there). I'll get rid of the unnecessary ones. I just didn't remove tne to follow the basic category scheme.

    - Fast travelling is possible; one of the level 2 boots (Boots of the Coward) grants the most movement speed out of all boots (+40 = Level 1 boots, +60 = regular Level 2 boots, +80 = Boots of the Coward) and can you teleport to a friendly building or ward.

    - AoE unit selection was disabled because you could select locusted units sometimes (for example the Health Bar units). I have honestly no idea how is that possible, since locust's main function is to prevent the players from that, but it looks like WC3 failed us again. I can turn it on tho'.

    - I could see each tower in the replay; I'm quite sure that happened becase of the Scneer ulti. Well, that's not implemented correctly yet (and I also forgot to make it target heroes only again). I have a few plans to get it work finally, but I'll need my friends, who are usually short on time nowadays - well yea, it's quite unfortunate. I think I'll just disable that spell in the next public version until it gets fixed.

    - The tooltips' colours depend on your hero. Fel Force heroes use red and the Alliance members use that green colour. I personally find it more convenient; you can read what your spell does, and then all the concrete numbers are on the top of the tooltip if you have to read it quickly. Because unlike in individual MOBA games, where dinamically changing the tooltips is possible, here you can't modify them. Therefore writing something like this would hurt my eyes, and it'd also be harder to find what you need:

    Creates a distortion in the fabric of Magic at the targeted location, causing a large wild-magic zone. Enemies within a 350 range become more vulnerable to magical attacks, and take 15% more damage from magical sources, and take 350 (+ 0.25 AP, + 0.6 Bonus AD) damage when the duration ends, as the anomaly explodes. The affected characters immediately explode if they get hit by the Netherflame, dealing extra damage (the extra damage factor is equal to the damage amplification) and applying a stun that lasts 1.5 seconds.

    - I was thinking the same about hero level. Unfortunately I can't use two materials with "Blend", one of them has to be transparent. It had to be the hero level, which is quite strange because of that. And the colour is also quite bright for the bars. I'll increase the stroke's size, I think that'll do it.

    Oh, and pressing the space bar will move the camera to your hero. Thought I should mention it.
     
  3. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    The reason why I mentioned this was not because I wanted to know it but to signalize it's not that self-evident.

    So, only when you build this. A main point that always nagged me about DotA is that you regularly need to run to base and back by foot.

    Locusts lose some of their properties when being morphed for example.

    I do not say that you should directly implement the numbers but from the lore-rich text it's hard to make out the gameplay functionality. At least use some unified words and highlight them, so you can catch them with the eyes apart from the remaining text and still get a vague idea of what the spell does or do not call it "Damage" only in a Netherflame for example but instead "Cone Damage" etc., so you already get clues how that damage is applied.

    We are also starting an AoS btw but that one holds some differences to your understanding of an AoS.
     
  4. Luorax

    Luorax

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    When I first made the MultiBoard, it contained the whole text. But it looked horrible because of that huge empty space between the numbers. After a few mins everything becomes obvious, and you don't need the board early on. I also didn't feel like adding a quest for this; where's the fun in testing something if you can find everything written down in the quest menu?

    Well, the UI is full. However, I think I could make "Patrol" teleport you home if you use it on the main building.

    Well, they're simply moved periodically. But okay, I've enabled drag selection again; just don't blame me if you happen to select something that you shouldn't be able to.
     
  5. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    I would advise using icons for SKDAM.

    You definitely do not need an UI feature like "swap multiboards" in the unit card. Do it via esc or minimizing the multiboard or chat command.

    Of course I would blame you when selecting a dummy. But I would also blame you for bad controllings. Investigate the subject. It's a test version anyway. You did not remove Scneer's ultimate either.

    One more thing: Earlier, my inventory was said to be full when trying to purchase an item but I still had a slot free.
     
  6. Luorax

    Luorax

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    I was thinking of using icons for SKDAM myself earlier; I had many ideas before, but I'm silly and never write them down. I even have a list, but still, I hardly ever wrote anything into it. I'll do it from now on.

    The instant ability was the most convenient solution I could think of. It used to be the escape key event, but it moved back one category in the shop. Well, with the current solution I can't even use it in the shop, so yea... I think I'll change it back to esc, and add a channeled, no target spell; after X seconds (let's say 6), your hero is teleported back to the spawning pool.

    Did you use consumable items when that fake error-message popped up? I'm sure you did; now that you mentioned it, I came to realise that I forgot to add a line to the stack-handler method, therefore when you used all the stacks of something, the free slots variable never got increased by one. Buying and using consumables multiple times could lead to something like this, that's for sure.
     
  7. Druu

    Druu

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    Alright, so this is my review of your heroes so far. I tried to tell you my specific love and dislikes about each of them.

    Yours to consider if my complaints are worth it

    Review

    Nassera

    It is an impressive hero, she has so much cool abilities and utility. I'd play her as a support anytime even though she's more of a carry :p

    The only problem I see here is that her spells are too strong and easy to use. Skillshot would be even more fun to use as they will require talent and skills.

    Bringing someone to you that easily is very very powerful, I don't see why she isn't a MUST pick in all games.


    =======================


    Tidalus

    Good melee hero, very good to control teamfights and tanky enough with a close gap or fight leaving ability.

    Whirlpool should stun when the enemy is really "out" of the whirlpool actually. They are stunned inside and still suffer damage, that's kind of unfair, there is then no

    reason to leave the whirpool and being stunned while doing it.

    Ult and Shield ressembles a lot, but it's good. This is not a "must take" hero, but pretty skillshot balanced and fun to play.


    =======================


    Glacion

    I think that having 4 offensive skills make all the spells redundant, having 4 times spells to deal damage and nothing to really "control" makes the hero either boring, too

    strong or simply not playable as you always try to have him doing all the spells.

    In warcraft 3 we have a problem that is called Targetting and unselecting hero. His Q spell create this kind of gameplay break, You can't Smartcast by pressing shift and

    spamming Q. It doesn't work, it is a good spell design though a skillshot that requires spell stacking. I think that this hero isn't good enough even though I like the spells

    except for the Ult and W, Q and E are original and fun to play with, maybe those should be his spells and W et R could be modified to have a utility aspect. Only one AoE

    spell is enough to apply its passive I don't think he needs 2.

    Also, on the skillshot base, I'd like to be able to cast E on the ground, would be an even more impressive spell. W would need to be Ground targeted too.


    =======================


    Scneer

    It is indeed pretty hard to trigger such an ult :p

    The W and Q combo is awesome, his E is very strong in the beginning of a teamfight, removing all mana from a carry is so good if it's an ap carry you kind of put him out of

    fight when he is the most needed.

    R is like half of Poppy's ult, I think you should use the "takes damage" trigger and check for buff, if the attacked unit is damage by a damage source with the Ethereal buff,

    apply damage otherwise give health back. You should render Ethereal only the caster and targetted unit since they both disapear in the void.

    I had a bug after using the ult on a creep, my spells weren't working on anything after.


    =======================


    Raz'jalr

    Very hard to play since I don't think anything has a synergy. Passive wants you to be attacked which is why you have many stuns, to be a threat.

    I think the Summoned Tentacles should be the ones having the passive and should apply a big slow and reduction of damage, something that almost requires you to destroy it.

    Ult is easily killed by any stun so it's not enough to generate a "focus him or he'll destroy us". This hero should be rework, but I don't know how.

    Maybe the Tentacles should be made like I said earlier with the passive, they should apply very strong debuffs to have the focus of enemies and you are in the back stunning

    key characters with your 2 stuns. I don't know for the ult.

    (You could also keep passive ont he hero, but make it so he's targeted.)
    (Also, the ult didn't work on Jungle creeps)


    =======================


    Kassar

    Fun hero to play with. The bone pool is fun to play with, lets you harrass a lot in lane when you last it like a boss.

    I think the E spell is specially good for that harassing, W is good for teamfights and I tried to use it Shotgun like and wasn't able, this is a good thing

    His ult is a must on this kind of hero, his Q is just an additional good thing. Q's passive is very good and makes this hero completely awesome. A very powerful AD carry


    =======================


    Zaraxxus

    Good ap carry, his E is fantastic for people whos likes to control many units at the same time. Q is good to flee, chase or join a fight. W has a good combo with E and works

    well if you don't accidentaly cancel it.

    His ult is fine, nothing impressive, just a clear aoe that slows and deals damage.

    I think the ult could be changed for something else maybe a mass spell that would apply his E debuff on all units in the area and then when he uses E on a unit that already

    has that buff, it is affected by a huge slow or reduced damage, something fun to play with. Have E cast on the same target 2 times could just apply something like fun so it

    is easily usable in lane to harass.


    =======================


    Jainar

    A good bruiser, his skills are all good and have multiple utility. Ult is perfect but hard to aim, I used it near a creep and it didn't trigger but when it does it is a very

    good skill. Disarming someone, getting some damage reduction, a charge. I like this hero, it must be a good jungler too.


    =======================


    Erion

    Wonderful support hero, good CCs and protection/healing spells. His health is also pretty decent to be in the front/middle line all the time.


    =======================


    Xirris

    I couldn't test him out since there was no heroes on enemy team but reading his spells was clear enough for me to understand him. This is kind of an AP assassin, the stalkers

    are an addition to his original playstyle, his ult is great, Q's passive is also very good. his E is painful in a teamfight. I like him pretty much, I'd play him


    =======================


    Sirion

    Cool Bruiser, a mix between Sivir and Leona. I like the fact that he loses the ability to W and E when he tosses his shield away.

    I like every single aspect of this hero except for the boringness of ult, I'd rather have it Leona like if you want my opinion, it'd be strong, but at least it's harder to

    aim than just standing in the middle of the fight pressing R to stun everyone off. His passive is powerful and useful to this kind of character. This is a brilliant hero


    =======================


    Shagutt

    Totally not noob-friendly, I hardly understand his mechanic. Though, I have to mention how cool his Q is. I like the channeling to render the spell stronger very unique.

    So this is a semi AP assassin hero that requires times to build his combo and then spams it on an enemy to bring it down if I understood. You stack Counters with E that you

    will consume to gain AP and Magic Penetration that will make your W stronger and constantly setting your target to 0 Magic Resist so your Q can pierce through.

    Ult only helps to make the combo come even faster. I like the ult, it's cool to toy with it, same with Q. Synergy between E and W is good too I guess. Not too much of a team

    helper but good at sniping away annoying carries.


    =======================


    Crizzix

    That must be the most difficult to master hero and funniest to play with discovering many combos the more you play him. I like every single of the spells he has since they

    all are different and acting the same. But I like the positive/negative passive too, since that's what makes him so unique.

    Very good designed hero, something I'd like to master if this game is released :p


    =======================



    Draku'Jin

    I think I know where you took inspiration for this one. It is indeed a very powerful support with many spells included in the spellkit. I'd play it anytime. Everysingle

    aspect of this hero is good.


    =======================


    Snodhar

    I don't like him, not too fun to play with. He has a good passive when he strikes from behind which is cool. Q is good cuz of Silence and gap closing. W is meh, I'd say fine,

    but I'd like to completely disapear instead of creating smoke and then be able to use E (which I couldn't use at all, wherever I was on map. I think that you should not need

    invisibility [OR] make at least 2 spells that would turn him "invisible enough" to use his E.

    Ult is okay, deals initial damage, good useful effect of reducing damage while walking and then another damage burst. It's very good. But I'd not personnaly play this dude,

    I'd prefer those perfect heroes instead.
    Maybe you just need to tweak him a bit so it is funnier to play.


    =======================


    Nazzari

    Another perfect hero, her Q stacks witht he passive making her able to stun up to three targets which is great. W works fine, protection and slow CC and E helps your passive

    to proc more often.

    Ult is just the cherry on top making her spells even more effective, slowing and dealing damage. Another perfectly awesome AD carry


    =======================


    Anub'Theran

    I can say that some of her spells just don't work since pounce doesn't trigger damage but the spell says it does.

    Though, the skills are pretty straight foward, slow an enemy down and focus it till it dies with melee attacks. I think that her Ult doesn't fit the skillset and its passive

    just simply isn't thought enough. Setting traps is fun and useful to achieve the goal set before but it's not enough, it needs better skills when burrowed something that

    would benefits to go under the enemy tower or something that would make you a bit weaker but adding support abilities. Actually, being able to swap between normal and

    burrowed to add support to teamfights or while laning could be a great idea to start from


    =======================


    Doombot

    I had many bugs with this one, passive doesn't go on cooldown and I had to use his flamethrower to have his ult back. I could learn Ult at level 4 I think.

    Alright, I like heroes with different mechanic and this one is good for that, I like his flamethrower effect. Combination of W and E is cool and fun to play with. Ult helps

    for longer fights. I had trouble with this hero since it seems broken skillwise and triggerwise. I got overheated only once after ult and couldn't get overheated after. You

    should check the triggers out and do your tests.


    =======================


    Quoyochakee

    Great hero with a slow, attack speed steal, protection and useful ultimate. I can't complain here, this one has a very distinct gameplay and is very good.
    It also looks pretty cool all pink and stuff, he kinda looks like a plushie you want to hug, except this one throws tornado and unleashes hell on the map with that heavy rain.


    =======================


    Norjhan

    <3 awesome hero again, I'd make the leaf go into a tighter cone and that would be one of my favorite hero you designed. This one is a faboulous support.
    I love the ult, but the cooldown is way too high, I'd rather have him on a low cooldown but healing less so he could use it many times during a teamfight.

    Passive is :O. It is so freaking good !
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  8. Luorax

    Luorax

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    Very well, that's what I call a feedback :) So my thoughts:

    Nessara
    Well, making the Q a skillshot didn't really look that cool (that flying net was pretty ugly IMO). However, making the E a skillshot is something I've been playing with in my mind, so yea, I think I'll change it right away.

    Glacion
    Well, I tried to make multiple kind of heroes for each role. There are AP casters with more utility, this one was designed to be a pure damage dealer with a cool amount of CC. No escape mechanism, gap closer, or anything, but pure damage with a cool amount of CC. Kinda reminds me of Brand to be honest.

    Scneer
    Well, the E is an anti-mage tool. Since his only way to CC someone will remove the W damage amplification and is affected by CC reduction, Koro came up with this unique form of crowd control. The mana comes back quite fast, but of course it scales with AP. It also fits into the mana based theme (passive, plus check out his mana costs; he's mana hungry as hell).

    Well, the ulti is still quite problematic, but I'll try to do my best. I personally think it'd be an awesome spell, cool utility, escape/initiation, and I don't really know about anything similar.

    Raz'jalr
    Okay, I was personally thinking of doing some tweaks to him, but had no idea where to start or what to change. I'm personally not really satisfied with the W to be honest, I just don't find it reliable or useful. He also summons enough tentacles, so I think I'll do something to this spell.

    Well, the ulti is based on regular units and their attack is controlled by WC3. However, with the Scneer ultimate changes I'll have to remove rework every SFX that uses custom unit types with pre-set models, so I'll have to write a code for them too. Sad, because this means extra work for the CPU, but it won't be that noticeable IMO.

    Sirion
    Well yea, that ultimate; he's a melee hero and I didn't want to give him that Leona styled self-pull, but wanted him to have a ranged initiation spell.
    Well, I think you may have not noticed, but the tooltip says at the shield's position; so by playing with the Q properly you can place your ultimate wherever you want. It can be a cool strategy to send in a beefy melee AD hero 4v5; the hungry enem team initaites instantly and then boom, a big shield arrives from the other side of the trees and stuns the whole team. My main idea was that, and I thought the QWE + passive gives him enough utility and eye-candy, the ultimate should be something simpler. A well placed AoE stun can be gamebreaker tho - just remember how top-pick that Ashe was on WCG because of that single stun arrow.

    Draku'jin
    Well, this hero was added months before Lulu came out :) Soraka's infuse inspired me, I wanted to create a whole "hybrid" support; by hybrid I mean something that can be played either offensively or defensively. It was different when I made his skillset (Q and E both dealth damage or healed, increased/decreased the heal the target takes and the W just the polymorph - but I thought that was both boring and too much heal so reworked him to this)

    Snodhar
    So he's a jungler assasin. The passive was originally that backstab-fear, however, thansk to Drunken_Jackal he has this passive now. He can sustain the jungle route and fuck-up non-mana user heroes, and mess with mana users as well.
    He's one of the most funny one IMO, but you have to experience this with multiple players; the E is an utility that grants you and the AD carry bonuses later and hels you setup ganks early on. I mean, just imagine: you use on a minion or the support while you're invisible for the enemies. You ask them to take some damage making the enemies feel comfortable and ask them to engage. They'll be happy to turn back thinking what dumb you both are, but then you just jump on them with Q, use W to stun them and render yourself immune, then use the R to reduce their damage and sight range. Such a dirty tool. Also, because of the E, you can detect wards too, and in general, you'll know if they can see you.

    Anub'Theran
    That's another hero I'm thinking of reworking. The passive is just broken IMO; you're literally immune.

    I was thinking of something like this:
    You wouldn't lose MS while burrowed, you would be immune to skillshots and AoE spells, however, they could attack you and cast targeted spells on you. You might even gain some armor and resistance in the mother-earth. You have a cool harass tool, wards, slow and stun, etc while burrowed, and the stealth. As a jungler (he works well as a jungler, tested it myself), you can easily avoid wards, setup ganks, charge in, etc.
    And the Q deals damage when the target lands. I've never seen it fail.

    Doombot
    Hmm, the ultimate's attributes are correct, it's strange that you could learn it that early. I've also never noticed bugs with the skills, but point taken, I'll test them.

    EDIT:
    Let's add some more "Well"-s, it didn't contain enough of it. So here it is:

    Well, well, well, well, well.
     
  9. Drunken_Jackal

    Drunken_Jackal

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    I see my name. Do you mean that in a good or in a bad way?
    How about that other hero eh?
     
  10. Luorax

    Luorax

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    I said "Thanks to Drunken_Jackal" and it's on the map as you can see, so you can guess :)

    Well, the other one; the suggested model was too low-poly as I said and I can't really recall too many of his skills. But as far as I remember he had plenty of knockbacks (maybe too many of them), sort of an Alistar. I have all the 25 hero concepts on my HDD btw (and maybe you don't know it, but the public version contains 22 heroes; it's just 2 of them is not available to select in that version), two of them's been already implemented succesfully (hemomancer and Vladimir fans will enjoy the 21st one), once they have all their icons I'll start working on the rest. Into the Nether is the first on the list tho'.

    EDIT: okay, I fixed the Doombot ulti leveling thing; I didn't know I was this dumb, but it looks like I am :S He should also lose his colour when the ult ends (the spell trigger is cool, so the problem must be somewhere in the color-handler snippet) and I'll check the passive.

    EDIT2: oh now I see. It's the explosion that ruins everything. I'll try to figure out why it f**ks up the passive mechanism.

    EDIT3: okay, it works properly in my version. Expect it in the new version; I'll most likely release that once all the Gorr (21st hero) icons are finished and his spell tooltips are tweaked, and I think I'll see what I can do about this Into the Nether. IDK when all these things will be finished, since my exams are coming in 3 weeks, but we shall see. Feel free to report bugs if you find more of them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  11. Druu

    Druu

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    Nessara's Q could be an arrow with a Wire, she either pull on it hard to bring someone to her or just use it to jump ahead to the target.

    Because having an instant-pull is OVERLY OP. In the history of good games, Pudge has to pull, Blitz has to pull. The DotA hero that Swaps actually gets into danger in order to swap, same for Urgot.

    It is really easy to turn a fight 5v1 and then making it a 5v4 teamfight. It needs to be skillshot (maybe not for the melee aspect of it, but for the ranged, it's required.)
     
  12. Luorax

    Luorax

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    Well, you have a point there. I'll see later what I can do about that spell.

    EDIT: okay, I have a quite cool idea that'll give her some utility, extra damage and increase her skill-cap a little bit. That's one more missile model and some extra coding; but it's fine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  13. Luorax

    Luorax

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  14. Drunken_Jackal

    Drunken_Jackal

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    Smexy hero. May I ask, who made that model? Kick ass awesome.
     
  15. Luorax

    Luorax

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    The hero model was made by Judash137 and all the icons (including the hero icon) by Fjury. Champara_Bros is responsible for all the effects. (the 0.8 version contains all the effects and the hero, but not with the tweaked tooltips and the icons :) So he was disabled. The current one also contains one extra disabled hero, that's waiting for 5 icons and an effect model - to give you an idea what it can be, it's based on the Goblin Alchemist model)
     
  16. Drunken_Jackal

    Drunken_Jackal

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    J did a good job there :D

    Just a quick suggestion, switching between boards using ESC is ugly, because ESC is used for canceling spell activation.
     
  17. Luorax

    Luorax

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    That's why it was C - it was also easier to reach it. Any ideas then? Because I personally find that Home Portal way better with the Esc multiboard switch (and it also was a suggested change) and we don't have any more slots to add spells.

    How about showing the StatBoard while the shop is selected and the normal board while it isn't? I always bind my hero to Ctrl + 1 and the shop to Ctrl + 2, it's really easy to switch between them like that.
     
  18. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Have never canceled spells by ESC but by right-click. Binding it to the selected unit is an idea. Although, you cannot automatically set control groups via trigger, I guess people would quickly grasp it due to the need. Additionally, how about changing the board on double-ESC?
     
  19. Luorax

    Luorax

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    I also cancel things by right-clicking to be honest :) Sometimes I miss the smartcast function from WC3 to be honest...

    Well, double-Esc is another idea, that might work for sure, however, I think it's not better than binding it to unit selections. It may look better for first since you don't have to from those control groups, but in the long run they're way faster. Because everything is bound to the QWER area, reaching the 0-1-2 keys is really simple, thus you don't have to move your fingers that far from them, and also, that might help some new players figure out how useful those control groups can be as they grant fast hero selection that can save lifes when you have to react quickly.

    I'll try to figure out something that's better than all these solutions, but I can't promise anything.

    I'll be quite inactive in the next 2 weeks (GCSE), but I've told Fjury what to draw and the next hero's codes are all done (even in your 0.81 version), so 0.82 may be released in 2-3 weeks.
     
  20. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    I have said "in addition", selecting units and double-ESC as an alternative.