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Siegecraft
- Author(s)
- Mr.Cheese
- Size
- 6.98 MB
- Rating
- Downloads
- 5034
- Created
- Apr 11, 2010
- Updated
- Apr 23, 2010
- Resources
- 1
- State
Approved
This bundle is marked as recommended. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Welcome to Siegecraft.
…where the entire map is a gigantic battlefield!
To win, just destroy the enemy capital! But doing this is not easy. Designed by someone who hates AOS maps, this map is about one thing and one thing only: epic battles.
No lanes. No symmetrical layout of the land. No predictable attacks from the armies. There is artillery that will constantly bombard the battlefield. Sides will build a fort and retake it constantly.
The map size is epic (a rarity for AOS maps). The number of different units that spawn surpass over a hundred. This map is also great for newcomers to Warcraft 3 who just want to pick a hero and kick some butt.
This map has the intent on pushing Warcraft 3’s limits today so that the map ages better over time. Lag will be a factor. The lag is not being caused by leaks or bad triggering but by the sheer amount of units and crazy spells in the game. On my computer, that has a healthy amount of ram, the lag is almost non-existent when the battlefield is saturated. But for those with lesser computers, there may be some lag. As the game goes on, the lag should decrease whenever a barracks is destroyed and the army shrinks. If you receive any lag, it will be at its worse in the beginning of the game.
If this map lags for you, there are options one can take to eliminate it. Choose the option of destroying the South Barracks or North Barracks (or both), and you will find the game running much faster and smoother. Removing the artillery also helps.
This map is also a very high file size due to the sheer amount of content and to all the imported data. This map is not intended to be a Bnet map where you throw it up there blindly and have people join you. This map is intended to play with friends you know or by yourself.
This map is also protected.
Features:
The above images are common in a typical game of Siegecraft. Explosions, big spells, small spells, units racing towards one another, battles breaking out all over… if you do not like epic battles and prefer grandma friendly wars, then this map is not for you.
Unlike most AOS maps, there are no ‘lanes’. There is just a battlefield. There are no lanes to ‘push’. Depending on how the armies are marching across the battlefield will determine when and how the battles occur.
Also, unlike most AOS maps, there is no symmetry between the sides. Far from being unbalanced, this has removed repetition that (to me) plagues usual AOS maps. It is fun when areas are different.
In Siegecraft, the armies do not ‘upgrade’ as in a typical AOS (such as +1 armor) or adding another unit. Instead of upgrading, they go through an entire metamorphosis.
After a period of time (which you can modify in the options), a new ‘age’ will begin and entirely different units will spawn as your army. When a new ‘age’ begins, your army will become more powerful and the units deadlier. But they will also behave differently as well. For example, in the Age of Magic, almost all the units cast spells. AOS games can get boring because the armies get boring and easy to kill. The Ages remove repetition by making the armies harder and deadlier. The game becomes more intense.
Each ‘Age’ is like its own game due to how different they are from one another. Here is the breakdown of the Ages.
-Age of Knives
Age of Knives is the very first Age. This is very medieval period, and units act as you would expect. Footmen use swords. Archers use bows. Archmages turn people into sheep. Catapults hurl rocks at the towers.
-Age of Magic
With the Age of Magic, the elite units of the Age of Knives become the bread and butter of the army. Now, most of the units are spell casters.
-Age of Chaos
All hell breaks lose with the Age of Chaos. Units become very fast, the spells they cast are deadlier, and flying units begin making up much of the army. If you neglected to level your hero, you’re going to be torn to shreds.
-Age of Order
The Age of Order smoothes the roughness from the last age and the units are more complete. Flying units and battle mages rule this Era. The units aren’t as fast, but they are more deadly. Sometimes a giant golem appears (above) to dominate the battlefield.
-Age of Ascendancy
This era is the last and will end the game swiftly if it is still in a stalemate. The Age of Ascendancy is technology from the future. Marines with machine guns enter the scene backed up by space ships. Hovercrafts appear firing lasers. Some cruisers are extremely dangerous with their lasers. Others fire deadly explosions and black holes that can take out even the most leveled hero.
If a game reaches the Age of Ascendancy, it will not last much longer. Due to powerful units and extremely strong artillery, the game will come to its conclusion.
Most of my games end up being 50 minutes long or shorter. Typically, the Age of Ascendancy ends the game within five to ten minutes.
But epic battles wouldn’t mean much without rich engrossing terrain to fight them in.
All the above images are playable areas. While that looks nice, it becomes boring if terrain is nothing more than the same theme (such as a forest theme). Wouldn’t a game be more fun with more diversified locations?
All the above images are playable areas. While that looks nice, it becomes boring if terrain is nothing more than the same theme (such as a forest theme). Wouldn’t a game be more fun with more diversified locations?
Diversifying the terrain is to eliminate repetition during play. It is more fun where areas are very different from other areas.
All images above are playable areas in the game.
All images above are playable areas in the game.
It wouldn’t be much of a battle if you couldn’t lead your troops. For each side, there is a flag. The flag grants buffs to the hero and surrounding units. But the flag also has a set of icons for you to click where you can tell your armies where to attack.
If you steal the enemy’s flag, however, they will not respond to orders from the enemy.
Leading troops into battle is one thing, but wouldn’t it be fun to be king and have absolute power? Each side has a palace. When you enter it, go to the throne room, and you will find a crown lying on the ground. Pick up the crown, and you will find your hero sitting on the throne! You will lose control of your hero, though, since kings can do nothing but sit on the throne. However, you will be able to control all the units for your side with absolute precision. If you get tired of being a monarch and wish to return to battle, click on the guy with the exclamation point next to the throne. You will surrender the crown… and control.
An AOS needs a healthy amount of heroes. So, in Siegecraft, you are presented with many different heroes to choose from.
Some heroes are very simplistic such as the Amazonia who fires special arrows. Other heroes are more complicated such as the Morph Mage who can shapeshift into any hero form she comes in contact with, even the enemy heroes. Other examples include the Huntress Hero can unmount and you end up with two heroes: the huntress and her panther, and she can mount the panther and have different abilities. There is also the druid who can transform into different forms, each form having their own unique abilities. The heroes are very different from one another.
And many heroes have crazy spells. In the last image above, the Ogre Mage rides lightning back to his side’s Fountain of Health. Every hero has a triggered spell of some sort. Some of them are very elaborate.
Some heroes are very simplistic such as the Amazonia who fires special arrows. Other heroes are more complicated such as the Morph Mage who can shapeshift into any hero form she comes in contact with, even the enemy heroes. Other examples include the Huntress Hero can unmount and you end up with two heroes: the huntress and her panther, and she can mount the panther and have different abilities. There is also the druid who can transform into different forms, each form having their own unique abilities. The heroes are very different from one another.
And many heroes have crazy spells. In the last image above, the Ogre Mage rides lightning back to his side’s Fountain of Health. Every hero has a triggered spell of some sort. Some of them are very elaborate.
What I really hate about AOS maps is whenever they have many heroes, they are almost always variations on the default Warcraft 3 heroes. So to help combat that, I’ve included all the default Warcraft 3 heroes into Siegecraft. Now, the default heroes have been altered to fit with Siegecraft meaning they can go up to level 20 like the other heroes (and their abilities have been adjusted accordingly).
If you wish to choose a default hero (because you don’t like Siegecraft’s heroes or because of nostalgia), just move your fairy through the portal. Both sides can choose any default Warcraft 3 hero.
While items are a main part of most AOS maps, they take a backseat approach in Siegecraft. There are a number of items for your hero to choose from and benefit. However, items alone are not going to determine the game. There is no ‘build’ of items for any type of hero. Siegecraft is about you leading battles, not about you buffing a single hero.
While the default mode is a zoomed out top down view, you can alter the cameras to play the game any way you want. If you want to play it from a bird’s view, go ahead (top picture above). If you want to view the action from the ground, go ahead (bottom picture above). The tools for the camera are to make the game as comfortable as possible for you.
Press ‘Escape’ to access these controls during the game.
Within the beginning three minutes of the game, whoever presses ‘escape’ first will control the options. With this, you can set up Siegecraft to do many things. You can disable features such as the artillery or the north and south spawns. You can start players off with 2000 gold or more if you choose. You can modify the revival time for heroes and even modify the experience rate for heroes.
Most important of all, you can modify the Ages. If you just wish to play in the Age of Knives, you can turn off the Ages. If you just want to play in the Age of Chaos, you can set up the game to start in the Age of Chaos. But what if you want a challenge and wish to start one side in the Age of Chaos and the other side in the Age of Order? You can do that.
Also, incredibly important, you can choose the RACE of the sides. Currently, there are only two races: Humans and Night Elves. Both races use completely different units and have different ways of attacking (Night Elves rely on superior archers and gigantic walking treants).
The options are to put the player in control of whatever game experience he or she wants. The options enable a healthy replay of Siegecraft.
Siegecraft does include artificial intelligence so the map is fully playable with a single player. The bots know how to use their abilities, know to retreat when they get low on health, know how to build forts, and will obtain the flag and order troops around.
The AI currently has only one difficulty setting at the present time. So no matter what difficulty setting they are assigned, they will be the same.
The bots also will talk to you. Sometimes, such as in the above image, they will lose their temper with you. Like a human player, sometimes they don't like to lose. (This, of course, can be disabled in the options.)
Siegecraft is being released now because Starcraft 2 is about to come out. While Siegecraft has been extensively been worked on, it clearly is not “finished” (but what map is?). Here are some of the things that I wanted to add…
-Additional races such as the Orcs and Undead as opposed to just having Humans and Night Elves as the choices.
-Different difficulty settings for the AI. The AI currently present would be considered ‘Easy’ mode. ‘Hard’ mode would have the heroes keep targeting the Human players in a devilish way.
-More items.
-More heroes for the Hallaer Side. I already have half a dozen already done for them. Oh well.
-While Astalder side is mostly done with their heroes, a few of them could use more work. The Charge Knight, in particular, needs some new spells.
-A full multiboard. It was never necessary for the gameplay so I left it out for now. The Leaderboard does its job fine.
-At the “Fort Shop”, different types of forts would be available such as a fort with fire towers or ice towers. This wasn’t included at the time because of how radically unbalancing a “super fort” became to the game’s flow.
-A loading screen. But who really cares about a loading screen? Bah.
-There are ‘empty areas’ on the map around the sides. These were to be filled in as territories that heroes could explore on their own via the portals (such as the one in the church). There, the hero could level up and gain gold very easily. I even wanted to program the AI to join the Human Heroes if they decided to take on any of these missions. And furthermore, I wanted these territories to go through time. So you could reset the portal and the same area would change from grassy caveman type era to a sci-fi high technology era. I simply ran out of time to implement this.
-An ending cinematic and a credits cinematic were begun but could not be completed in time. This is truly a shame because they were very amusing. The ending cinematic would have your hero sit on the throne. Just as the introduction mimicked Warcraft 1’s intro, the ending sequences would have mimicked Warcraft 1’s endings.
This map will still be worked on if there is interest.
The limitations of Warcraft 3 engine’s on the total amount of units is totally gone in Starcraft 2. While this map took an incredible amount of work, if you desire something similar to be made in Starcraft 2, please say so. Starcraft 2’s better engine would greatly help out this type of map. But I won’t do it if the interest isn’t there.
I must thank the entire Hive Workshop for making this map possible. From the advice to the spells to the models, all of it was applied. So much has been applied, it is going to be impossible to credit everyone. So I will shout out to the biggest contributors:
SPELLS:
Hanky- Hanky’s Spell Pack is a core piece of this map. And he thought with his own system that no one would use his spells. Hah!
Dr.Feelgood- His spellpack is partially used.
Beserker- Many of his spells are used.
Squiggly- You can tell which spells are his because of all the special effects.
RMX- For spells like Twin Axe.
Scorpion 182 – For his spells.
BlackShogun – For his dragonhead model and spells.
MODELS:
67Chrome- Big thanks to him for his amazing skins. Siegecraft’s Magic Archer and numerous other heroes thank him.
Dan van Ohllus- For models like the unmounted mage and the Amazonia.
General Frank- For many heroes such as the Tigerian Slicer to army units such as the knight and pikeman.
Will the Almighty- For many special effects.
Jetfang Inferno- For many special effects.
Kitabatake- For the catapult and ballista models, for the Night Elf spider tank, for the Bane model, etc.
Radagast- for the Master Dwarf model.
Cloudstrife- For terrain ideas.
There are, unfortunately, many people I am leaving out because there are so many and I cannot remember them. But they are all available on the Hive.
So thank you again, guys!
Updates
Summary
This is likely the last update to Siegecraft for Warcraft 3. The Galaxy Editor has just been released meaning I was correct to rush this map to completion. To give you an idea of how fast this map was worked on, when the Starcraft 2 beta began, there was no terrain at all. When the map finally got uploaded, it only had a couple of weeks before the Galaxy Editor was released marking the end of the War 3 modding era.
This map could have used another few months to bake but I had to pull it out of the oven now to see whether people would like the recipe. This is why there are so many 'imperfections' you will find if you look close enough. But I am glad this map got uploaded in its imperfect state rather than not being uploaded at all.
Welcome the Orcs, a new race added with 1.2. Even though there was only a few days between patch 1.1 and 1.2, I was barely able to squeeze out the Orc race.
The Orcs come in colors of green and red and prefer coptors and big damn tanks. Who knew?
The Slicer hero has a new ability and a new ultimate. The ultimate is 'multiply' where the Slicer splits into many copies of himself. The Slicer copies have bladestorm so you can fire off several bladestorms all in one spot. Mows down the enemy... literally.
Note the many Generals on the side. All the 'special' units for each race are now considerably more powerful. These units like the General can only have one running around at a time. All have command and vampiric auras. The General will make many, many copies of himself. The Warchief will undergo bladestorm. And the Warden will cast starfall. These 'little heroes' are considerably the strongest unit on the battlefield outside the heroes.
With this rushed 1.2 patch for a rushed map, this pretty much concludes Siegecraft for Warcraft 3 and my involvement with Warcraft 3 modding. I'll see you in Starcraft 2.
Full Patch Notes
-BUG FIXES-
-Lag reduction!- Footman now has a new low poly model. Warcraft 3's footman is very high poly and slows the map when in large numbers.
-Fountains, for both sides, will no longer heal the enemy.
-Fountains' rate of healing has doubled (to reduce time of hero sitting by fountain).
-Fixed a bug with Player 8 giving computer death dialogue even when a human was playing.
-Fixed several pathing bugs in the upper snow area.
-Fixed multiple pathing bugs in the Ice Palace.
Spiced up the Hallaer area with better terrain.
-Fixed the pathing error near the Hallaer Hero spawn.
Corrected doodads at the water fountain at the Top Middle Barracks for Astalder.
-Fixed a bug for Player 10's camera system.
-Fixed major bugs in the 'Reset Camera' which would cause zoom and rotation to become 'off'.
-Fixed a bug that player's name was not displayed when he became Emporer of Hallaer.
-Fixed typing errors in Harpy Hero's Spin Attack description.
-Fixed the description of Retribution Aura in that it does not last for a certain amount of time but is permanant.
-New Features-
-Slicer has a new ultimate: Multiply
-Slicer has a new ability: Crush
-Ancient Warrior's Nature Shockwave has been replaced with Entangling Roots.
-Ancient Warrior's Elune's Wrath ability has been replaced with Nature's Explosion.
-Orc Race is now available.
-Balance-
-Deafening Strike's cooldown increases with the levels.
-Charge once again has area of effect.
-Some item prices have been lowered to increase their usability.
This is likely the last update to Siegecraft for Warcraft 3. The Galaxy Editor has just been released meaning I was correct to rush this map to completion. To give you an idea of how fast this map was worked on, when the Starcraft 2 beta began, there was no terrain at all. When the map finally got uploaded, it only had a couple of weeks before the Galaxy Editor was released marking the end of the War 3 modding era.
This map could have used another few months to bake but I had to pull it out of the oven now to see whether people would like the recipe. This is why there are so many 'imperfections' you will find if you look close enough. But I am glad this map got uploaded in its imperfect state rather than not being uploaded at all.
Welcome the Orcs, a new race added with 1.2. Even though there was only a few days between patch 1.1 and 1.2, I was barely able to squeeze out the Orc race.
The Orcs come in colors of green and red and prefer coptors and big damn tanks. Who knew?
The Slicer hero has a new ability and a new ultimate. The ultimate is 'multiply' where the Slicer splits into many copies of himself. The Slicer copies have bladestorm so you can fire off several bladestorms all in one spot. Mows down the enemy... literally.
Note the many Generals on the side. All the 'special' units for each race are now considerably more powerful. These units like the General can only have one running around at a time. All have command and vampiric auras. The General will make many, many copies of himself. The Warchief will undergo bladestorm. And the Warden will cast starfall. These 'little heroes' are considerably the strongest unit on the battlefield outside the heroes.
With this rushed 1.2 patch for a rushed map, this pretty much concludes Siegecraft for Warcraft 3 and my involvement with Warcraft 3 modding. I'll see you in Starcraft 2.
Full Patch Notes
-BUG FIXES-
-Lag reduction!- Footman now has a new low poly model. Warcraft 3's footman is very high poly and slows the map when in large numbers.
-Fountains, for both sides, will no longer heal the enemy.
-Fountains' rate of healing has doubled (to reduce time of hero sitting by fountain).
-Fixed a bug with Player 8 giving computer death dialogue even when a human was playing.
-Fixed several pathing bugs in the upper snow area.
-Fixed multiple pathing bugs in the Ice Palace.
Spiced up the Hallaer area with better terrain.
-Fixed the pathing error near the Hallaer Hero spawn.
Corrected doodads at the water fountain at the Top Middle Barracks for Astalder.
-Fixed a bug for Player 10's camera system.
-Fixed major bugs in the 'Reset Camera' which would cause zoom and rotation to become 'off'.
-Fixed a bug that player's name was not displayed when he became Emporer of Hallaer.
-Fixed typing errors in Harpy Hero's Spin Attack description.
-Fixed the description of Retribution Aura in that it does not last for a certain amount of time but is permanant.
-New Features-
-Slicer has a new ultimate: Multiply
-Slicer has a new ability: Crush
-Ancient Warrior's Nature Shockwave has been replaced with Entangling Roots.
-Ancient Warrior's Elune's Wrath ability has been replaced with Nature's Explosion.
-Orc Race is now available.
-Balance-
-Deafening Strike's cooldown increases with the levels.
-Charge once again has area of effect.
-Some item prices have been lowered to increase their usability.
Summary:
Multiplayer now works with no one dropping. Lag has also been reduced. However, battling the lag will continue on different fronts. Hopefully everyone will able to do something like the above image such as leading a massive army of gigantic trees to attack the unsuspecting enemy.
Note how the Amazonia has that skull shield? Almost all the AI heroes now purchase weapons to better kill you. The AI are no longer pushovers at the later Ages (provided they earned enough gold!). The Amazonia above just tore through my warlock.
Credits have now been added to the game to thank people for their contributions. Credits will turn on when the game is over (and is, of course, skippable).
Full Patch Notes
-BUG FIXES-
-Players in multiplayer games will no longer disconnect as soon as they pick a hero for the Hallaer side anymore. The 'transporting' disconnect bug has also been eliminated.
-Spawn system reworked to reduce lag. (While lag has been reduced, spawns may not act as they should since it is a new system.)
-Only fairies and heroes can trigger 'new heroes' and rune descriptions now.
-The giant Treants for the Night Elves are no longer spell immune.
-Correction in text concerning Fortress Tower description.
-Correction in text concerning Chaos Mage.
-Level 5 of the Juggernaut summon has lost its summon artifact ability. It can now summon the dead.
-The 'Press Escape' note during the introduction no longer blinks.
-Huntress Hero's name will no longer change when mounting or unmounting.
-Mountain Giants (Age of Chaos) now have mana.
-Orb of Water ability now correctly displays all five levels.
-Keeper can no longer attack you when you sit on the throne.
-A doodad error was corrected in the Astalder Throne Room.
-A testing ability for cannons was removed.
-Magic Tower's name is now 'Magic Tower' and no longer 'Guard Tower'.
-Will of the Forest ability text has been corrected.
-Amazonia's name was corrected.
-Create Golem now creates golems to match the map's current tileset.
-Fixed an error in Twister that it didn't scale to the spell's level and did little to no damage.
-Removed major lag from Twister by removing terrain changes the spell did.
-Ancient Warrior Rune description has been corrected.
-Fighter (Human/Age of Ascendancy) now has laser art (mostly) firing from the model.
-Fighter's spells have been removed.
-The Elite Hippoglyph Rider (Age of Order) no longer uses Flamestrike spell but a new custom one appropriate as a Night Elf spell.
-Fart Spell no longer uses a passive looking icon.
-Bane's "Raise Greater Dead" now has appropriate tooltips describing what skeletons are summoned.
-Polarity Aura now displays the correct tooltips.
-Added rocks, flames, and other terrain around Hallaer's hero revival place.
-Space Marine's Banish has been replaced with Energy Wave.
-BALANCE-
Main Buildings
-Due to popular demand, both palaces have had their hitpoints doubled from 2500 to 5000.
Fire Panda
-Fireaga cooldown has been increased from 7.5 to 14.
-Fireaga mana cost has been increased from 50 to 70.
-Fire Nova mana cost has been decreased from 80 to 60.
Mage Warrior
-Twister cooldown has been increased from 8 to 22.
Charge Knight
-Fury Grab mana cost has been decreased from 200 to 150.
-Loses the Trample ability. Now has Energy Burst in its place.
-Charge ability only affects the hero, no longer has area effect.
Master Dwarf
-Renamed to Blood Dwarf
-Loses the Lightning Hammer ability. Now has Blood Jar in its place.
Elite Archer
-Renamed to Nature Archer
Space Marine
-Starship summon is no longer permanent.
-New Features-
-Jasso now talks when he dies! (Can be disabled, of course.)
-Laran now talks when he dies! (Quite an insulter...)
-Can Enable Local Fog in options. (Game now starts with universal fog.)
-Can Enable Music Area Effects. (Will de-sync multiplayer games. Only use in singleplayer.)
-Credits will now play when the game ends.
Multiplayer now works with no one dropping. Lag has also been reduced. However, battling the lag will continue on different fronts. Hopefully everyone will able to do something like the above image such as leading a massive army of gigantic trees to attack the unsuspecting enemy.
Note how the Amazonia has that skull shield? Almost all the AI heroes now purchase weapons to better kill you. The AI are no longer pushovers at the later Ages (provided they earned enough gold!). The Amazonia above just tore through my warlock.
Credits have now been added to the game to thank people for their contributions. Credits will turn on when the game is over (and is, of course, skippable).
Full Patch Notes
-BUG FIXES-
-Players in multiplayer games will no longer disconnect as soon as they pick a hero for the Hallaer side anymore. The 'transporting' disconnect bug has also been eliminated.
-Spawn system reworked to reduce lag. (While lag has been reduced, spawns may not act as they should since it is a new system.)
-Only fairies and heroes can trigger 'new heroes' and rune descriptions now.
-The giant Treants for the Night Elves are no longer spell immune.
-Correction in text concerning Fortress Tower description.
-Correction in text concerning Chaos Mage.
-Level 5 of the Juggernaut summon has lost its summon artifact ability. It can now summon the dead.
-The 'Press Escape' note during the introduction no longer blinks.
-Huntress Hero's name will no longer change when mounting or unmounting.
-Mountain Giants (Age of Chaos) now have mana.
-Orb of Water ability now correctly displays all five levels.
-Keeper can no longer attack you when you sit on the throne.
-A doodad error was corrected in the Astalder Throne Room.
-A testing ability for cannons was removed.
-Magic Tower's name is now 'Magic Tower' and no longer 'Guard Tower'.
-Will of the Forest ability text has been corrected.
-Amazonia's name was corrected.
-Create Golem now creates golems to match the map's current tileset.
-Fixed an error in Twister that it didn't scale to the spell's level and did little to no damage.
-Removed major lag from Twister by removing terrain changes the spell did.
-Ancient Warrior Rune description has been corrected.
-Fighter (Human/Age of Ascendancy) now has laser art (mostly) firing from the model.
-Fighter's spells have been removed.
-The Elite Hippoglyph Rider (Age of Order) no longer uses Flamestrike spell but a new custom one appropriate as a Night Elf spell.
-Fart Spell no longer uses a passive looking icon.
-Bane's "Raise Greater Dead" now has appropriate tooltips describing what skeletons are summoned.
-Polarity Aura now displays the correct tooltips.
-Added rocks, flames, and other terrain around Hallaer's hero revival place.
-Space Marine's Banish has been replaced with Energy Wave.
-BALANCE-
Main Buildings
-Due to popular demand, both palaces have had their hitpoints doubled from 2500 to 5000.
Fire Panda
-Fireaga cooldown has been increased from 7.5 to 14.
-Fireaga mana cost has been increased from 50 to 70.
-Fire Nova mana cost has been decreased from 80 to 60.
Mage Warrior
-Twister cooldown has been increased from 8 to 22.
Charge Knight
-Fury Grab mana cost has been decreased from 200 to 150.
-Loses the Trample ability. Now has Energy Burst in its place.
-Charge ability only affects the hero, no longer has area effect.
Master Dwarf
-Renamed to Blood Dwarf
-Loses the Lightning Hammer ability. Now has Blood Jar in its place.
Elite Archer
-Renamed to Nature Archer
Space Marine
-Starship summon is no longer permanent.
-New Features-
-Jasso now talks when he dies! (Can be disabled, of course.)
-Laran now talks when he dies! (Quite an insulter...)
-Can Enable Local Fog in options. (Game now starts with universal fog.)
-Can Enable Music Area Effects. (Will de-sync multiplayer games. Only use in singleplayer.)
-Credits will now play when the game ends.
Release Version
Keywords:
AOS, epic, siege, war, battle, large, hero, flag, army, chicken, warcraft, medieval, sci-fi, fort, terrain
Contents
Reviews
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 59
Really nice discrption sounds interressting ill try it later and give you some feedback
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 227
This can't be wc3...
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
- Messages
- 675
Very promising ! I'll take a look later 
Btw the terrain seems Epic !
Btw the terrain seems Epic !
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 59
Its really laggy!!!
i played it offline ... IT LAGGS pls fix that
i played it offline ... IT LAGGS pls fix that
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
- Messages
- 405
Im sry but my screen turns black before I choose my Hero. Please fix it. Looks very promising!
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 576
Downloading, look good, but 6.5 mb who will wait to download that on Garena or Battle Net...
Edit: I dont have strong PC but, i have 2gb RAM and lags like hell, i cant play it, and that is offline. Online will be........You say that lags becouse spells and some other stuffs, but ii dont see any reason in the map that can couse this lag. Map look good but this lag and map size......
Edit: I dont have strong PC but, i have 2gb RAM and lags like hell, i cant play it, and that is offline. Online will be........You say that lags becouse spells and some other stuffs, but ii dont see any reason in the map that can couse this lag. Map look good but this lag and map size......
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- Jan 5, 2008
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- 1,805
For an advanced map like this, it's not possible to fix. Many triggers runs at once, to remove that lag, he will have to remove the triggers.. And how fun will that be?
Only one solucion here. Get a better comp. :b
Nice map btw.
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- Jul 7, 2008
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- 4,185
nice map! also, you can't downrate it for lag, that's your computers fault.
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- Aug 24, 2009
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- 706
I have 4GB ram and a dual core extreme @ 3GHz and it still lags,
I guess that the wc3 engine can't take this much.
I guess that the wc3 engine can't take this much.
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- May 30, 2009
- Messages
- 829
Epic.
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- Jul 6, 2008
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- 11,325
Really nice but seems to be laggy and also filesize should be at least 6mbs to play multiplayer.
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- Aug 11, 2009
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No, 8mb, they updated it.
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- Feb 12, 2010
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- 287
the tree knights are considered buildings, so spells cant hit them.
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- Apr 11, 2010
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- 41
will try it asap. gj m8 on your effort.
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- Jul 16, 2007
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- 1,372
this looks to be epic!, Im testing this as soon as have have free time!
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- Mar 25, 2009
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- 36
I Like it!!!! I hate AOS too,And this is totally the Oposing!!!!! There's a little mix of Empire Earth,A game where you up ages,and Warcraft!!!! This is Much Incredible,I WAS LOOKING FOR A MAP LIKE THAT!!!! *hugs*
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- Jun 3, 2008
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- 11
i'm just going to tell you - whenever i try as the "kingdom of hallier" and choose my hero, the game disconnects for me, as well as when anyone else on my team tries to. However, people on the other team's games work fine. This is a huge glitch and should be fixed.
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- Jan 7, 2010
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- 642
Who ever said it was for Battle Net?
Edit: This map lags like turds in a microwave trying to be a good meal. If it lags too much, it becomes unplayable. If it is unplayable its bad.
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- Apr 6, 2010
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- 3,105
A great map and concept, and I found no major issues for the single player mode. Just two minor ones (so far): the Huntress' name changes between mounted and unmounted; and the constantly blinking "press esc to skip" during the opening cinematic is annoying, just once at the beginning is enough.
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- Aug 20, 2008
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- 399
lol lags heal my comp is dual-core lags!
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- Feb 27, 2009
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- 115
To those having issues with lag, try removing the North or/and South barracks in the options. Also, try removing the artillery. Tell me if performance improves for you.
Your 'speed' of your computer isn't going to matter if it is dual core or whatever. It is going to depend on your free RAM memory. If you have Firefox up and a zillion tabs, it is going to lag.
I was hoping putting this in the disclaimer (which is the first thing placed in the description) would warn people of what was coming. But I guess people don't read it. Not a single person complaining about 'lag' has said they did my suggestions in the options.
I've been on the side of 'sluggish' computer (and your computer can be sluggish even if it is dual core), and I can understand getting upset if you have a bad experience. This is why I placed some options for you guys to help reduce the lag. They should help.
We are at the end days of Warcraft 3 modding. The SC 2 editor will be out very soon, and when it does, interest in War 3 modding is going to plummet. But as time goes on, computers are going to get far faster than they are today and will do so at an extroadinary clip. Even melee Warcraft 3 today seems crazy with how overpowered computers are than when Warcraft 3 came out. With Starcraft 1, it is very absurd. This map and its size couldn't have been made a few years ago. But computers keep getting faster allowing more possibilities.
The way how the triggers are firing is pretty simple. The game will check the food count to see if your side is below a certain number. If it is, then triggers (for the spawns) turn on, and they start cranking out units and ordering them to attack. When a barracks blows up, the food count is lowered which means the total army size decreases. When the game starts, the food count is zero so the highest degree of lag is at the beginning due to a hundred units entering the map (and moving and attacking in different ways). After that peak point, performance only improves.
Since fighting lag was necessary to make this map, it is interesting discovering that there are parts of the default Warcraft 3 that Blizzard didn't do that good of a job on. For example, the default spell effect of 'shockwave' horribly lags the map if any number of units use it. More bizarrely, an earlier version of this map replaced the footman model with the Captain model (since Captain has cooler armor) but the default Blizzard model would lag the map with the Captain model. Once switching it to footman, it went away.
Aside from the triggers that turn on and off for the spawns, the hero spells all start off and are turned on whenever a hero is chosen. The only triggers left would be the AI and few others.
The lag experience will be determined by the number of units running around on the map and if your computer can handle it. This is probably why Blizzard placed the 'upkeep' tax in Warcraft 3 to keep people from making too many units. It could also be why Blizzard focused more on micro-managing heroes than building vast armies in melee. I'm realizing now that the Warcraft 3 engine limitations directed the gameplay of the melee instead of the other way around.
Consider this fixed. You'll see the change in the updated version. Thanks for informing me! =)
These will both be changed. Thank you!
I consider this a serious issue. Do you know if the game disconnected you when you chose your hero or before?
It is also very odd that it disconnects people only on the opposing side. Anyone ever hear of this problem before?
I'm working on it.
Your 'speed' of your computer isn't going to matter if it is dual core or whatever. It is going to depend on your free RAM memory. If you have Firefox up and a zillion tabs, it is going to lag.
I was hoping putting this in the disclaimer (which is the first thing placed in the description) would warn people of what was coming. But I guess people don't read it. Not a single person complaining about 'lag' has said they did my suggestions in the options.
I've been on the side of 'sluggish' computer (and your computer can be sluggish even if it is dual core), and I can understand getting upset if you have a bad experience. This is why I placed some options for you guys to help reduce the lag. They should help.
We are at the end days of Warcraft 3 modding. The SC 2 editor will be out very soon, and when it does, interest in War 3 modding is going to plummet. But as time goes on, computers are going to get far faster than they are today and will do so at an extroadinary clip. Even melee Warcraft 3 today seems crazy with how overpowered computers are than when Warcraft 3 came out. With Starcraft 1, it is very absurd. This map and its size couldn't have been made a few years ago. But computers keep getting faster allowing more possibilities.
The way how the triggers are firing is pretty simple. The game will check the food count to see if your side is below a certain number. If it is, then triggers (for the spawns) turn on, and they start cranking out units and ordering them to attack. When a barracks blows up, the food count is lowered which means the total army size decreases. When the game starts, the food count is zero so the highest degree of lag is at the beginning due to a hundred units entering the map (and moving and attacking in different ways). After that peak point, performance only improves.
Since fighting lag was necessary to make this map, it is interesting discovering that there are parts of the default Warcraft 3 that Blizzard didn't do that good of a job on. For example, the default spell effect of 'shockwave' horribly lags the map if any number of units use it. More bizarrely, an earlier version of this map replaced the footman model with the Captain model (since Captain has cooler armor) but the default Blizzard model would lag the map with the Captain model. Once switching it to footman, it went away.
Aside from the triggers that turn on and off for the spawns, the hero spells all start off and are turned on whenever a hero is chosen. The only triggers left would be the AI and few others.
The lag experience will be determined by the number of units running around on the map and if your computer can handle it. This is probably why Blizzard placed the 'upkeep' tax in Warcraft 3 to keep people from making too many units. It could also be why Blizzard focused more on micro-managing heroes than building vast armies in melee. I'm realizing now that the Warcraft 3 engine limitations directed the gameplay of the melee instead of the other way around.
Consider this fixed. You'll see the change in the updated version. Thanks for informing me! =)
These will both be changed. Thank you!
I consider this a serious issue. Do you know if the game disconnected you when you chose your hero or before?
It is also very odd that it disconnects people only on the opposing side. Anyone ever hear of this problem before?
I'm working on it.
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- Feb 27, 2009
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- 115
Can you tell me any more information? Is this a repeating problem for you?
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- Dec 25, 2008
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- 110
Liked it and I would have a lot more if it didn't have lag, but you cant do anything about it so ... 5/5 + vote for approval.
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- Feb 12, 2010
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- 287
Also the dryads are spell immune, dont know if this is intentional though.
EDIT the cannon towers in the middle says they attack land and air but they only attack land. and the trample ability, the horses dont play animation... they just slide
also trample doesnt tell you what you get at higher levels.
EDIT2 ok in the age of choas theys a "mage choas" shouldnt it be chaos mage of mage of chaos?
EDIT3 ok i was playing and i started losing only the center remained i was trying to defend but every time i got close to the castle i was ordere to move somewhere else.
EDIT the cannon towers in the middle says they attack land and air but they only attack land. and the trample ability, the horses dont play animation... they just slide
also trample doesnt tell you what you get at higher levels.EDIT2 ok in the age of choas theys a "mage choas" shouldnt it be chaos mage of mage of chaos?
EDIT3 ok i was playing and i started losing only the center remained i was trying to defend but every time i got close to the castle i was ordere to move somewhere else.
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- Apr 6, 2010
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- 3,105
A few more:
About the Juggernaut's (level 5) summon: using its "artifact" ability causes it to have the "entangling bones" buff, without being immobilized or taking any damage from it. The description implies you're supposed to get a random item from it.
Also, the Juggernaut's Nitro ability is interrupted by friendly units in the way.
There seems to be a problem with the staff of teleportation: It doesn't seem to work in the enemy base (or while holding both armies' banners, as was the case at the time).
Finally, I've seen units go back to the barracks from which they were spawned, but then turn around once they reach it. Not as bad as if they just sat there, but still annoying.
If it makes any difference, this is all in single player, I haven't seen the crash if you pick the Hallier side.
EDIT: a new batch:
Some units can blink/spawn into the walls (like the center fort) and get stuck.
The Naga Knight's Water Orb ability only has the damage description up to level 3.
The Seth bot has a weird death quote, I think it should be read "Better to be eaten away by rust than scoured away by perpetual motion".
I didn't manage to find the camera controls for a while, it should be explained in the Quests menu.
Mountain Giants have War Stomp but no mana.
The Predator's ultimate seems to consist of summoning 3 birds of prey, rather than the Avatar of Vengeance-type summoning given by the description.
About the Juggernaut's (level 5) summon: using its "artifact" ability causes it to have the "entangling bones" buff, without being immobilized or taking any damage from it. The description implies you're supposed to get a random item from it.
Also, the Juggernaut's Nitro ability is interrupted by friendly units in the way.
There seems to be a problem with the staff of teleportation: It doesn't seem to work in the enemy base (or while holding both armies' banners, as was the case at the time).
Finally, I've seen units go back to the barracks from which they were spawned, but then turn around once they reach it. Not as bad as if they just sat there, but still annoying.
If it makes any difference, this is all in single player, I haven't seen the crash if you pick the Hallier side.
EDIT: a new batch:
Some units can blink/spawn into the walls (like the center fort) and get stuck.
The Naga Knight's Water Orb ability only has the damage description up to level 3.
The Seth bot has a weird death quote, I think it should be read "Better to be eaten away by rust than scoured away by perpetual motion".
I didn't manage to find the camera controls for a while, it should be explained in the Quests menu.
Mountain Giants have War Stomp but no mana.
The Predator's ultimate seems to consist of summoning 3 birds of prey, rather than the Avatar of Vengeance-type summoning given by the description.
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- Joined
- Feb 23, 2010
- Messages
- 46
I got some problems with lagg too.
During the spawntime you can't play very well.
Also there is a minor bug in the middle of the map. Units can walk up the walls of the fort or how it's called. And maybe you could remove the walking point of the units if you killed one of the Barracks.
And in my oppinion beeing the king of your team ruins the game.
All in all i liked the map and i will vote 4,5/5
Good luck
During the spawntime you can't play very well.
Also there is a minor bug in the middle of the map. Units can walk up the walls of the fort or how it's called. And maybe you could remove the walking point of the units if you killed one of the Barracks.
And in my oppinion beeing the king of your team ruins the game.
All in all i liked the map and i will vote 4,5/5
Good luck
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- Aug 11, 2009
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- 6,528
Hmmm this looks interesting....I'll check it out this weekend and then i'll give you a review.
The description is amazing
The description is amazing
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- Feb 12, 2010
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- 287
tinker only has 3 level of abilities, im assuming the other normal heroes only have 3 too
EDIT the keeper can kill your hero if you become monarch, though it took a looong time, and the gaurd towers have a ability which requires "default String"
EDIT2 ok you can research backpack at the palace, catapults have bigger splash than a cannon tower? cannons have Storm bolt ability, it doesnt look like that it just has the same desciption as the mountain kings version of it. the vault has the sound of a villiger. Purify can target allied units, magic tower item makes a "guard tower" it s different than a guard tower, its name is still the same though.
EDIT3 wow lots of stuff...: 2 people sell the ring of the archmagi, greater scroll of repleneshment never is buyable, (it was done loading checked 5 minutes later it was still 0) ressurected units just sit there, along with summonds.
EDIT the keeper can kill your hero if you become monarch, though it took a looong time, and the gaurd towers have a ability which requires "default String"
EDIT2 ok you can research backpack at the palace, catapults have bigger splash than a cannon tower? cannons have Storm bolt ability, it doesnt look like that it just has the same desciption as the mountain kings version of it. the vault has the sound of a villiger. Purify can target allied units, magic tower item makes a "guard tower" it s different than a guard tower, its name is still the same though.
EDIT3 wow lots of stuff...: 2 people sell the ring of the archmagi, greater scroll of repleneshment never is buyable, (it was done loading checked 5 minutes later it was still 0) ressurected units just sit there, along with summonds.
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- Joined
- Jun 18, 2009
- Messages
- 168
This map looks very promising. I'll test it later.
Wow, as people already told it before me, HUGE lag, i reduced everything, like resultion, cuz it usually fix the lag, but it didnt worked either
I'll test it later.Wow, as people already told it before me, HUGE lag, i reduced everything, like resultion, cuz it usually fix the lag, but it didnt worked either
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- Jan 4, 2010
- Messages
- 67
Very nice map, I like it really fun to play 
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- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 536
amazonian's ulti description is default. FFIIIIIXXX!!!!!
it says beastmaster, not amazonian ranger
it says beastmaster, not amazonian ranger
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- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 115
Fixed.
This would be difficult to fix as it is Hanky's spell. Not sure if he wants to bother updating that spell. But I'll see what I can do.
You probably got stunned before you teleported away. The armies tend have some stun abilities in the later ages.
I still haven't figured out if this is a bug or a feature. It is a consequence of the War 3's movement AI. It can be annoying for the foot soldiers but it is very useful for the air units and spell casters to be patrolling the areas. It makes it harder for a hero to 'lone wolf' a base as enemy units are moving both ways.
It's a network glitch that I was able to reproduce. It is fixed in 1.1 which will be uploaded soon.
The number one issue with this map I keep fighting is lag. the second issue is pathing especially when the pathing doodads decide to move themselves.
The spawns I don't care about since they will vanish. But I'll see what I can do with the regular units.
Yup. Only a few weeks ago, this map had no terrain at all. It has been a mad dash to try to get it done before Galaxy Editor hits. Some of the tool tips got missed. I'm fixing them. If the worst bugs I have to deal with are text, then I will be happy.
A worse issue is that when the map was optimized, many tool tip errors appeared all over like little fires breaking out. I'm currently hunting these down and zotting them.
The War 3 Default heroes strangely were effected by the optimization. But you guy know what spells the default heroes have so they'll be a low priority at the moment.
Seth is quoting Shakespeare in everything he says. He says: "I were better to be eaten to death with a rust than to be scoured to nothing with perpetual motion." It is from the play Henry IV.
It is Blank Verse. It isn't weird, it is just Shakespeare being Shakespeare.
Most of the death quotes are real life quotes. Who knew the bots were philosophical!
Two bots are quoting the old shareware game of 'Scorched Earth'.
I thought the 'Note' that appeared when the Options Menu expired was good enough. But I guess not. It will be added.
I'm impressed. You guys don't miss anything.
Birds of Prey was a victim of the "optimization" process as the Avatar description somehow got pasted over it. No prob, it'll be fixed.
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- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 115
Hmm. Think this should be disabled and be enabled only via the options? I always saw the balance to this as someone being 'king' meant one less hero on the field giving an advantage to the other side.
Tool tips for Default War 3 heroes aren't complete. If you notice, the 'rune' description for them also mentions a default ability (which isn't present). This map went through like ten different betas before 1.00. In one of those, the default heroes all had a new default ability. I haven't added them in yet.
Let me squash the other bugs before zotting the default War 3 heroes (which we all know how they work anyway). But they will be fixed soon.
What did you do to the poor keeper!? You offend him or something?
Heh, consider his 'attack' to be gone in 1.1.
This HAS to be an optimization error. None of the guard towers even have an ability outside the lightning tower.
I missed this. It was in the main Hallaer Portal too. Holdover from the default townhall. It will be gone.
This is intentional. Catapults can only target buildings. Cannon towers target units.
Although catapults have been targeting the treants beacuse they were still classified as buildings. This will be fixed in 1.1.
The artillery was being experimented on and that custom ability is an artifact of those experiments. It will be removed in 1.1.
At first, the artillery fired shells that knocked back enemy units. It was tons of fun but ended up becoming a headache. Imagine trying to fight on the bridges in the clouds and a shell comes and knocks your poor hero into the sea. When that happened, I went, "Yup. That has to go!"
Strange. I'll look into it.
Text bug. It is fixed in 1.1.
Items were added at the very end and are still messy. Some of them (like the cheese) dont' do anything. And their costs need to come down for some and up for others.
Fixed the Scroll of replenishment. Don't know what you are saying about the Ring of the Archmagi.
A simple trigger would solve this, but it would also add to the lag. If you notice, the summons for the AI heroes keep moving. Unlike the AI heroes, who are always moving one way, I'm trying to figure out how to get the Army summons/rezzes to move when the moving spot keeps changing due to the flag holder (and without adding more lag). Most of the time I forget about this problem as the enemy keeps coming down the path and slaughtering them all anyway.
I've written it down so I won't forget it. It won't be fixed in 1.1, but it soon will.
Very nice map, I like it really fun to play
Awesome! I felt depressed with all the people having lag issues. At least it works for SOMEONE. =)
Optimization error strikes again. Grr... Consider it fixed for 1.1.
I'll be more careful evaluating the optimized version before uploading it this time.
1.1 will be out in a few days.
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- Sep 13, 2008
- Messages
- 44
well i just tested it (alone), the games lags a little bit at the beginning because of the spawns but there are a lot of units so i think it is ok...
the "ancient warrior" - "elunes wrath" skill lags like hell for 5 seconds, i personally think that it leaks... because its just too much lag for a single spell, and the lag duration increases per cast lol (i almost reached 10 seconds of lag before i close the game...)
also, it deals massive damage for a spell that costs 15 mana and has a 0.5 seconds cooldown, i just instakilled an enemy bot (i think it was lvl 8) with it while my pc was freezed for 5 seconds
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i like the game because it has a big playable area with lots of units with different abilities, but lag always ruins every game, i know it is not meant to be played online with 5 players with "not so good" computers, but if only with 1 player and an enemy bot it lags a little bit, and with a spell it lags for 5+ seconds...
i hope you can fix some of the lag, and about the sc2 continuation, yeah i am expecting you to make a game like this for sc2, i will be waiting for it
the "ancient warrior" - "elunes wrath" skill lags like hell for 5 seconds, i personally think that it leaks... because its just too much lag for a single spell, and the lag duration increases per cast lol (i almost reached 10 seconds of lag before i close the game...)
also, it deals massive damage for a spell that costs 15 mana and has a 0.5 seconds cooldown, i just instakilled an enemy bot (i think it was lvl 8) with it while my pc was freezed for 5 seconds
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i like the game because it has a big playable area with lots of units with different abilities, but lag always ruins every game, i know it is not meant to be played online with 5 players with "not so good" computers, but if only with 1 player and an enemy bot it lags a little bit, and with a spell it lags for 5+ seconds...
i hope you can fix some of the lag, and about the sc2 continuation, yeah i am expecting you to make a game like this for sc2, i will be waiting for it
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2009
- Messages
- 168
As i tested it, lag is rly a problem. But this map is EPIC, i'm fine with aos, but this map truly beats all, i LOVE any map which has custom skills and skins, this game is truly great, i barely know any other map which i liked this much(except diablo 3 )
)
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- Apr 6, 2010
- Messages
- 3,105
At the risk of broken record-ism: The Naga Knight's Geyser also lags quite a bit (on a playthrough with both north and south barracks removed, but with full bots), and also seems to have a slightly smaller AoE than the target circle.
Also, at which age do the siege units no longer spawn?
MASSIVE EDIT:
Space Marine
* Spelling: There's a birage instead of barrage, and the Scattershot should read maximum instead of optimum
* The bombardment via ship takes too long depending on lag, sometimes it starts shhoting after all units are gone. i think a marker of some sort would be nice (signal flare or such)
* Why is banish his standard ability?
* The Starship summon might be too powerful, as they're permanent and apparently infinitely summonable, not to mention that they stay after switching heroes.
Ogre Wizard:
* The Fart spell icon is flat, so it looks like a passive ability, use the Research Disease Cloud icon.
Bane:
* The learn Raise Dead tooltip says he raises one skeleton, and the actual spell description doesn't tell you what type of skeletons are summoned.
Crypt Lord (custom)
* Major problem: he can't be picked. Going up to him, right clicking repeatedly on him, nothing (though it works for the bots). Managed to look at his abilities through the Jello's ultimate (why is the Summon Giant Beetle spell called Enragement?)
** EPIC GLITCH discovered, though I doubt it will ever show up in gameplay: Using Slicer's Deafening Strike (and presumably any other blink-strike attack) on the Crypt Lord does switch to him in the Hero revival area, but without spells or even the ability to move!
Slicer
* Stealth Stomp does not work as advertised, instead of stealthing, it unleashes Shockwaves in every direction, causing horrible lag (and since he didn't stealth, gets him rapidly killed).
* Bladestorm seems all-around weaker than Razor Edge. For a level-10 ultimate, this is problematic.
Tree Warrior
* Default skill is poison wave, not Eat Tree. Speaking of Eat Tree, it's useless on this map, as there are no non-decorative trees.
* The description says the Nature's Armor is at 4.5 for levels 3, 4 and 5.
That's all for the individual heroes, on to the game:
* You can't skip the introduction until the second line of narration. Not a big deal though.
* Out of curiosity, what's planned for Victory and Hero settings? Victory is currently empty, and Hero only contains start with 2K gold.
* Please place a warning for those heroes that have an attack affected by orbs (e.g. Huntress' bounce attack is cancelled with an orb equipped)
* There appears to be no detector unit of any kind, the spawning buildings and palace/gate at least should have True Sight (I'm predicting a lot of teleporting to the hero Wind Walking in the rear of the enemy base).
* Similarly, there's a huge hole to the west of the bottom center Astalder barracks (behind the keeper and naga statues), you can explore a huge amount of unterrained area (and again, backdoor into the place). Also, is there something planned for the entire southern region? It just seems to take up space for no reason.
* Switching heroes is much faster for the Astalder side, as they don't have to go through the area with a bunch of gateways.
* The change in color when switching from one region to another can be a bit jarring (and laggy), and I only see it as being useful for the atmosphere, so perhaps there could be an option to switch it on/off.
* The various Champions' corpses seem to take a bit long to disappear, but maybe that's just me.
* Something I think would be a good idea for the king mode: have an option to list each unit and its capacities (spells, functions as tank/healer/ranged, etc.) for the current age, as this would make it easier than finding out by trial and error.
** Also, a major problem with the AI is when during a battle, it uses different spells than you (it once interrupted a channeling spell I ordered to cast a different one). Not to mention the fact that units tend to fire off a spell and then run back to their base, getting in each other's way (VERY frustrating to watch them die without even attacking).
* Some units' names are the same from one age to another, this gets annoying when they have the wrong spells (for example, the Flurry/Immolation Hippogryph Rider and the Firebolt/Flame Strike one).
* The Tree Mage's Entangle can't target Heroes.
* A lot of units have researchable abilities, but if there's no way to research them, why have them in the first place? (Tree Knight has Sentinel and Moon Glaive, Druid of the Talon has Cyclone...)
* And finally, the gray bot has no death quotes. Surely a hero with a name like "Universal Ex-Wife" (great find by the way) has something interesting to say about getting killed?
That's all for now, and I hope you don't take offense to the quantity of issues reported.
Also, at which age do the siege units no longer spawn?
MASSIVE EDIT:
Space Marine
* Spelling: There's a birage instead of barrage, and the Scattershot should read maximum instead of optimum
* The bombardment via ship takes too long depending on lag, sometimes it starts shhoting after all units are gone. i think a marker of some sort would be nice (signal flare or such)
* Why is banish his standard ability?
* The Starship summon might be too powerful, as they're permanent and apparently infinitely summonable, not to mention that they stay after switching heroes.
Ogre Wizard:
* The Fart spell icon is flat, so it looks like a passive ability, use the Research Disease Cloud icon.
Bane:
* The learn Raise Dead tooltip says he raises one skeleton, and the actual spell description doesn't tell you what type of skeletons are summoned.
Crypt Lord (custom)
* Major problem: he can't be picked. Going up to him, right clicking repeatedly on him, nothing (though it works for the bots). Managed to look at his abilities through the Jello's ultimate (why is the Summon Giant Beetle spell called Enragement?)
** EPIC GLITCH discovered, though I doubt it will ever show up in gameplay: Using Slicer's Deafening Strike (and presumably any other blink-strike attack) on the Crypt Lord does switch to him in the Hero revival area, but without spells or even the ability to move!
Slicer
* Stealth Stomp does not work as advertised, instead of stealthing, it unleashes Shockwaves in every direction, causing horrible lag (and since he didn't stealth, gets him rapidly killed).
* Bladestorm seems all-around weaker than Razor Edge. For a level-10 ultimate, this is problematic.
Tree Warrior
* Default skill is poison wave, not Eat Tree. Speaking of Eat Tree, it's useless on this map, as there are no non-decorative trees.
* The description says the Nature's Armor is at 4.5 for levels 3, 4 and 5.
That's all for the individual heroes, on to the game:
* You can't skip the introduction until the second line of narration. Not a big deal though.
* Out of curiosity, what's planned for Victory and Hero settings? Victory is currently empty, and Hero only contains start with 2K gold.
* Please place a warning for those heroes that have an attack affected by orbs (e.g. Huntress' bounce attack is cancelled with an orb equipped)
* There appears to be no detector unit of any kind, the spawning buildings and palace/gate at least should have True Sight (I'm predicting a lot of teleporting to the hero Wind Walking in the rear of the enemy base).
* Similarly, there's a huge hole to the west of the bottom center Astalder barracks (behind the keeper and naga statues), you can explore a huge amount of unterrained area (and again, backdoor into the place). Also, is there something planned for the entire southern region? It just seems to take up space for no reason.
* Switching heroes is much faster for the Astalder side, as they don't have to go through the area with a bunch of gateways.
* The change in color when switching from one region to another can be a bit jarring (and laggy), and I only see it as being useful for the atmosphere, so perhaps there could be an option to switch it on/off.
* The various Champions' corpses seem to take a bit long to disappear, but maybe that's just me.
* Something I think would be a good idea for the king mode: have an option to list each unit and its capacities (spells, functions as tank/healer/ranged, etc.) for the current age, as this would make it easier than finding out by trial and error.
** Also, a major problem with the AI is when during a battle, it uses different spells than you (it once interrupted a channeling spell I ordered to cast a different one). Not to mention the fact that units tend to fire off a spell and then run back to their base, getting in each other's way (VERY frustrating to watch them die without even attacking).
* Some units' names are the same from one age to another, this gets annoying when they have the wrong spells (for example, the Flurry/Immolation Hippogryph Rider and the Firebolt/Flame Strike one).
* The Tree Mage's Entangle can't target Heroes.
* A lot of units have researchable abilities, but if there's no way to research them, why have them in the first place? (Tree Knight has Sentinel and Moon Glaive, Druid of the Talon has Cyclone...)
* And finally, the gray bot has no death quotes. Surely a hero with a name like "Universal Ex-Wife" (great find by the way) has something interesting to say about getting killed?
That's all for now, and I hope you don't take offense to the quantity of issues reported.
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- Joined
- Jul 14, 2008
- Messages
- 539
okay i tested it a bit and i must say im very impressed.
this is the best AOS for at least a year ive ever played(third most high potential aos after "warlords and regiments"(which never got really popular...sadly) and "C.H.A.O.S.")
i have to admit that it even lags on my computer which is very good imho.
hope u find a way to reduce it soon ;D
just tested a few heroes and i got some suggestions/bugs:
-lightningmages polarity aura preview says the lifesteal effect goes up to 75% at lvl 5 but it actually goes only to 45%
-idk if its supposed but the lightningmages ultimate let her even deal splash dmg on towers which renders her to a FRIGGIN BEAST
-its quite lame that melee heroes cant attack flying heroes =/ especially if u got not a single spell that hits air too, like the earth panda. maybe you could look into this.
-the healthpoints of the mainbuilding is quite low (2500) imho. maybe ...double them? the lightningmage just rapes it in seconds
-i know its just a name BUT as a player who do you think would be stronger just by looking at the name ..."archer" or "elite archer"? maybe rename "archer" to...dunno..."nature archer" or something to make her more attractive
more suggestions to come if i find some time for it =3
this is the best AOS for at least a year ive ever played(third most high potential aos after "warlords and regiments"(which never got really popular...sadly) and "C.H.A.O.S.")
i have to admit that it even lags on my computer which is very good imho.
hope u find a way to reduce it soon ;D
just tested a few heroes and i got some suggestions/bugs:
-lightningmages polarity aura preview says the lifesteal effect goes up to 75% at lvl 5 but it actually goes only to 45%
-idk if its supposed but the lightningmages ultimate let her even deal splash dmg on towers which renders her to a FRIGGIN BEAST
-its quite lame that melee heroes cant attack flying heroes =/ especially if u got not a single spell that hits air too, like the earth panda. maybe you could look into this.
-the healthpoints of the mainbuilding is quite low (2500) imho. maybe ...double them? the lightningmage just rapes it in seconds
-i know its just a name BUT as a player who do you think would be stronger just by looking at the name ..."archer" or "elite archer"? maybe rename "archer" to...dunno..."nature archer" or something to make her more attractive
more suggestions to come if i find some time for it =3
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 642
I selected everything that could help reduce lag... It still lagged, It was really hard to move the camera by pressing the arrow keys. If i did manage to do so, It would jump 1cm (minimap wise) to where i wanted. Which was BAD.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 18
This map is good, although a bit large in size and there is some lag.
The terrain is diverse and there are a lot of custom units, which explains the large filesize.
The ai is working well and this is a map playable as both single and multiplayer.
4/5.
The terrain is diverse and there are a lot of custom units, which explains the large filesize.
The ai is working well and this is a map playable as both single and multiplayer.
4/5.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 115
It is going to be replaced in 1.2.
All these 'spells' are actually from this website and were approved. They don't 'lag' so much as they 'lag' in combination of all the crazy stuff going on in this map. Ironically, the spells people are complaining about are the JASS ones.
1.1 will fix much of the lag.
i hope you can fix some of the lag, and about the sc2 continuation, yeah i am expecting you to make a game like this for sc2, i will be waiting for it
If you guys want it, it will be made. Though next time around, I'd like to get some testers early in for multiplayer for the alpha version so I don't end up with a situation like this map (e.g. lag not allowing many people to play). I'd like to get the heroes and gameplay to be more team based orientated.
As i tested it, lag is rly a problem. But this map is EPIC, i'm fine with aos, but this map truly beats all, i LOVE any map which has custom skills and skins, this game is truly great, i barely know any other map which i liked this much(except diablo 3
Wow, that's high praise. But consider this map is coming out at the end of Warcraft 3's days so it can take advantage of concepts and models and other things that earlier maps explored. With Starcraft 2, I'm sure the better maps will appear at the end of that game's lifespan.
I'm just happy that I was able to get this map uploaded before SC 2 came out. Did you know that around five weeks ago, this map had no terrain whatsoever? This map was rushed because once that Galaxy editor comes out, pssshhhttt goes the War 3 modding scene.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 115
Geyser is going to be replaced. May not make it for 1.1 though.
They *ALWAYS* spawn. But siege units spawn COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY than the other units. Siege units have zero food. And when they are made at a spawn point, the spawn point cannot make any more until those siege units have been destroyed (which doesn't take long on a map like this).
Siege units are working correctly and through all the ages.
Siege units will spawn based on whether your army is at the other side's base. Then they appear. Often, your guys die and your siege units just run around with no protection. But more appropriately, the siege units will tip the balance if you are attacking consistently. So if your early guys died and more coming, the siege tanks will do their job.
On the last age, the siege units (POW Tanks or the big hydras for the Night Elves) have absurd speed, and their job is to help end the game.
The Space Marine was one of the earliest heroes put in. He was one of the AI heroes for a while. So he probably does need some work.
The air strike's delay has nothing to do with lag. It is just the way the spell is. The ship appears in the south and has to fly on over. I always thought it looked pretty cool, but it isn't that useful since it takes a while. The Air Strike will likely become a 'triggered item' and Space Marine will get a new spell.
It's a fill in. He will get something else.
Switching heroes isn't a problem since whenever you switch heroes, your experience goes to zero. But you have a point that his starship shouldn't be permanent. It will be changed in 1.1.
Done
The location around his was pretty small and your hero was too fat to get inside it (but fairies can get there). I have enlarged the location.
This will appear in some heroes. But I'm trying to keep the location size for the heroes down so they are not accidentally triggered.
Jiggly's ultimate is Super-Sized Jiggly! You mean the shapeshift ability.
What would you name the Giant Beetle? Maybe the Crypt Lord is enraged.
The name probably came because the Crypt Lord's abilities kept changing all the time and he had an earlier ultimate where he turned red. The reason why the Crypt Lord is the only model that hasn't been replaced is because only his model works with the Burrowstrike spell (which I think is too cool to get rid of).
See, I'd never have thought to try using Deafening Strike on a passive hero sitting all alone in the glass in the palace. I'll take a look at it.
Stealth Stomp is going to get changed. Just not in time for 1.1.
I tried out different types of Bladestorms and they all either slowed down the game or didn't do much at all. The default Bladestorm is just a place holder.
Once upon a time, Ancient Warrior did eat trees as his default and they used to be on the map about five betas ago. Most of the wrong descriptions aren't 'mislabels' but artifacts from a previous beta. They're still wrong and will be changed. I just forgot they were there!
I had remembered about the 'Eat Tree', and it is already fixed.
Fixed.
Introductions have to be segmented (so you can skip within any link in the chain) or else the camera movement will still be going even if you skipped it.
I want to make it more responsive where it works after the first second. But it is pretty much low priority at the moment. You guys can wait two seconds. =P
The 'Enable' in the options is ADDING elements to the game (such as tons of gold) as opposed to 'Disable' which is REMOVING elements of the game.
Victory Settings can be divided into the 'simple' and the 'complex'. Simple would be a victory setting of whoever gets a hundred kills first or who holds the fort for a certain time or even capture the flag. A more complex victory setting would be spawning kings and you would have to fight into the enemy's palace and try to kill their king. Another complex victory setting would be to achieve an RPG victory by defeating dungeons and territories (which do not exist yet).
Isn't the Huntress the only one affected by this?
Hmm...
As said in the description, this map is nowhere near finished. This is the approximate I wanted this map to be...
-Seven Races to choose from (only have two).
-The number of heroes on the Astalder side would be equaled on the Hallaer side. Of course, I ran out of time. And there are still two spots open on the Astalder side.
-Double the items at least. Most of the items would be triggered.
-Various different 'forts' to *buy*. Aside from different towers, some would summon up automatons and other units to help defend the fort.
-All the options would be tripled at least with different settings.
And the big thing was to transform the unterrained areas into territories where your heroes can go off adventuring away from the battle. The AI was going to be designed to assist you if you *asked* the AI politely (AI would take great offense if you ORDERED it. I prefer my AI with some spunk.) Think of them as dungeon raids where a very cool item or boss or both would be at the end.
This is not in the map currently because of time and because I am wrestling with lag issues. I believe it would be a very interesting choice for a couple of heroes to sacrifice their lack of presence on the battlefield (which would ultimately be to their enemy's advantage) to adventure through a territory to gain mad experience and/or uber items. There is a risk involved which I think makes it interesting.
In the original version of the map, new Ages were toggled only by defeating a boss in a dungeon. So if a few heroes sacrificed their presence on the battlefield to defeat the boss, their side would benefit greatly. But it was a risk that with their absence, their side could lose while they were busy in the dungeon (of course, they can transport back but then they have to go back).
I prefer the idea of a map that can be played a number of different but interesting ways and can be replayed over and over and have a different experience. This is why there are options in the map currently such as deciding what 'Age' or 'Race' you want to play or what the experience rate (low or high would greatly change the experience of the game) to how fast or slow the Ages change and so on. In the end, it was intended for this map to become so flexible that it could be played as a RPG if the player wanted it.
It is not intended for the player to switch heroes often. It is mostly for new players who don't know what hero they want.
It has already been changed in 1.1.
It is because their models are hero models.
Do you realize how many units there are? For each race, it is around fifty units or more. Each age has a dozen different units.
But they easy to figure out. Until the later Ages, they all share the same role:
Footman (melee attacker)
Archer (range attacker)
Champion (Tough to kill, buffs and heals the army, defensive unit like a paladin)
Priest (healer)
Mage (spell caster)
Elite Archer (strong range attacker)
Archmage (strong spell caster)
Siege Unit A
Siege Unit B (Both provide the same role)
Hero (This would be the 'General' or 'Warden' that appear. Only one of them can appear at a time. They are essentially the 'hero' unit, and they haven't been fleshed out yet. They are supposed to be an offensive version of the Champion. They provide offensive buffs and make an army dangerous. They should become a player's first priority to kill since their presence alone makes an army so much more powerful. Currently, they are weak but that will change.)
When a new Age appears, the roles stay mostly the same. The Archmage often becomes the regular Mage. The Elite Archer often becomes the regular Archer. And new units fill in the empty roles.
As the Ages increase, more and more units cast spells and become more unique. The Archmage role for the Age of Order for Humans is not a mage at all but a gigantic golem trampling around the battlefield. But those units are more rare to the meat and potato units of footmen and archer roles.
I could make new races be essentially identical to Humans but with aesthetic differences (a grunt instead of a footman, etc.). But that would be repetitive and boring. I think it is a challenge to make a race come at it with very different roles so they have a different feel. Night Elves were dull, dull in their first versions of sentry/huntresses with archers. But with giant slow treants and strong archers behind them, the race felt very different from the Humans and was different to fight. It took a while to make them somewhat *balanced* with the Humans.
So while the spawned units tend to fit a role, different races will warp those roles to differentiate the race. But there will always be a healer, a spell caster, and so on.
I'm tired at fighting these tree loving Night Elves, so I am looking about putting in the Orcs. How should they be different? Certainly, they would be a stronger melee but that cannot be enough. How can fighting the Orcs be different than fighting Night Elves and Humans?
I like Blizzard's idea of the 'shotgun' way. Just throw things out there and see what happens. So it is going to take a while before Orcs appear in this map.
You're confusing me here. The two sentences cannot apply to both the AI heroes or AI army. The AI army will always attack whenever an enemy is near. But the AI heroes, when they are retreating, will ignore all enemy.
The AI heroes are supposed to be *dumb*. They are the 'easy' level. Medium and Hard haven't been put in yet.
Don't worry about the AI heroes dying. When they revive, they get a free beer which they will use to get wildly drunk and heal themselves in the middle of battle.
There used to be a penalty for dying, but I took it out. Gold is hard enough to get as is especially at the beginning. So when a AI hero dies, they just pop right back up a minute later.
I haven't seen the AI heroes get stuck (unless they are in the middle of a traffic jam). The only time they act weirdly is when the flag is dropped somewhere on the map. When this occurs, the AI heroes will drop everything that is going on (except battling any enemy nearby) and will RUN to the spot the flag was dropped. Once a hero picks up the flag, they all return to their normal runs. The only time I've seen a hero stuck was if they were charging for the flag and were in an odd angle to do it at. But once the flag is picked up, they return to their normal wandering ways.
If you want to bait the enemy heroes to come to you, get their flag and drop it somewhere. All the enemy heroes will come charging at that spot.
Hmm, well they have a different name in the editor! OK, name changed.
Spell is going to be dropped anyway.
There may be researchable abilities in the future. That is why they are still there.
That would be Jasso. I always wanted to personalize the bots so they are not just 'bots' but actual personalities. But there isn't enough time to do this.
Anyway, Jasso is from 'JASS' the War 3 programming language. In 1.1, when Jasso dies, he will blame his death on an undeclared variable somewhere and pray to the Vexorian god. Another AI is going to get death quotes too in 1.1. Only one bot is left without any quotes.
The original idea was for them to say far more than just death quotes. I wanted them to be sophisticated enough where you could have a conversation with them.
Not at all! I'd only take offense if no one said anything. I interpret feedback and bug reporting as people wanting to make the map better. If people hated the map, they wouldn't be making an effort. Everything being said here is making its way into the map.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 115
Did this lag occur before the spawned armies appeared?
It is improved in 1.1. Although I don't expect people who found the map unplayable to suddenly find it butter smooth.
I think this is fixed in 1.1.
Electromage is one of the older heroes, and I haven't taken a look at her in quite a while. She is supposed to be a 'glass cannon' where she can make tons of damage but is easily killed. Her energy form, while powerful, is supposed to make her extremely vulnerable to being killed.
Maybe she is too powerful in that form. I'll look at it.
Buy an orb from the shop. They cost only around 275 gold, very reasonable, and much cheaper than default Warcraft 3. With an orb, your hero attacks become ranged.
Now, the problem with attacking the Harpy is that then she will get annoyed with you which means she will put you to sleep. Maybe it is best not to annoy her? =)
The main buildings have an extremely high regeneration rate (as well as insane weaponry). I don't want to put the main buildings in such a state where earlier Ages cannot destroy it. But due to popular demand, the main buildings will have their health points doubled in 1.1.
Nature archer it is.
Awesome! I'd love to hear them.
Actually, multiplayer isn't working with version 1.0 due to disconnections occurring. This was my priority to fix in 1.1 and it is fixed. Lag is also somewhat reduced (hard to tell since I don't have a computer that runs the map slow except for one. However, with that computer, it lags even on Warcraft 3's menu screen so, alas, it isn't a helpful indicator).
I hope to get 1.1 out today.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2010
- Messages
- 287
put something in quests about changing heros? i didnt know you could.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 115
Version 1.1 is up! Please tell me your experiences with it. Anything said (good or bad) is valuable and will be implemented in 1.2. Patch notes can be found in the description on the first page.
As is the case, you always notice things right when testing the final version before you upload it. So here are some of the bugs in 1.1 and other issues that will be focused on.
-Units can go through the rocks near the Hallaer revival area (rocks were put in at end).
-Now that other issues were addressed, 1.2 will focus more on replacing hero abilities that are sluggish and are not working well. These include the Ancient Warrior, Space Marine, Slicer, Naga Knight, and several others.
-Another big issue that needs to be fixed is several spells such as the Hurricane Arrow or the Earth Wave that is moving the pathing blockers which is allowing units to climb structures they shouldn't climb.
-Energy Wall is not working 100% correctly. This will be fixed.
-The Warcraft 2 theme from the introduction is now piped through the sound channel (which makes it sound a little odd). This was done because I do not know how to turn off the War2 music theme. The triggers work on every other theme, but nothing seems to stop the War2 theme.
Those are the big issues I see now (I wanted to get it out there before people rip me over them. =) )
About lag...
I see lag occurring through three ways. First, it is the map size and all the doodads. I'm exploring whether any doodads or any clumps of doodads are lagging. But there isn't much I can do on this front. Second, it is from the triggers and spawning units. All the spawn triggers were re-worked in 1.1 to be as simple and lag-less as possible. I'm running out of things to tweak on this front. Third, lag can occur due to certain abilities from heroes or spawns and when they all cast them at the same time. I'm currently looking at this side.
One major way to reduce lag is to ZOOM IN the camera. 1.2 may start the default camera angle as default Warcraft 3 because of this.
As is the case, you always notice things right when testing the final version before you upload it. So here are some of the bugs in 1.1 and other issues that will be focused on.
-Units can go through the rocks near the Hallaer revival area (rocks were put in at end).
-Now that other issues were addressed, 1.2 will focus more on replacing hero abilities that are sluggish and are not working well. These include the Ancient Warrior, Space Marine, Slicer, Naga Knight, and several others.
-Another big issue that needs to be fixed is several spells such as the Hurricane Arrow or the Earth Wave that is moving the pathing blockers which is allowing units to climb structures they shouldn't climb.
-Energy Wall is not working 100% correctly. This will be fixed.
-The Warcraft 2 theme from the introduction is now piped through the sound channel (which makes it sound a little odd). This was done because I do not know how to turn off the War2 music theme. The triggers work on every other theme, but nothing seems to stop the War2 theme.
Those are the big issues I see now (I wanted to get it out there before people rip me over them. =) )
About lag...
I see lag occurring through three ways. First, it is the map size and all the doodads. I'm exploring whether any doodads or any clumps of doodads are lagging. But there isn't much I can do on this front. Second, it is from the triggers and spawning units. All the spawn triggers were re-worked in 1.1 to be as simple and lag-less as possible. I'm running out of things to tweak on this front. Third, lag can occur due to certain abilities from heroes or spawns and when they all cast them at the same time. I'm currently looking at this side.
One major way to reduce lag is to ZOOM IN the camera. 1.2 may start the default camera angle as default Warcraft 3 because of this.
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 17,315
Take that DotA! Now this is the kind of game that should dominate.
Though you made it so advanced and superior to DotA, that it is too hard for computers. DotA on the other hand is so banal, lame and idiotic it doesnt lag at all.
Why Blizzard?! Why?!
Though you made it so advanced and superior to DotA, that it is too hard for computers. DotA on the other hand is so banal, lame and idiotic it doesnt lag at all.
Why Blizzard?! Why?!
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2010
- Messages
- 287
forgot to mention this but the charge knihgt(i think thats his name) fury grab ability seems a bit slow, i mean the spinning part just moves really slow imo (considering its description) something like"pinning them faster and faster"
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2009
- Messages
- 168
Congratulation, the patch...is great, i could test the map now Didn't find any bugs, but i have 2 suggestion. First: its kind of strange that you can recover at the enemy's fountain, make it only for the allies of the fountain. Second: could you make a new command for the flags? The one that orders units to attack the middle fort, its not necessary, but its would be good. Anyway, +rep for this amount of lag reduction.
Didn't find any bugs, but i have 2 suggestion. First: its kind of strange that you can recover at the enemy's fountain, make it only for the allies of the fountain. Second: could you make a new command for the flags? The one that orders units to attack the middle fort, its not necessary, but its would be good. Anyway, +rep for this amount of lag reduction.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2010
- Messages
- 95
Idk about the map but i love that picture ;D
