Ragnaros17 said:

The description must be improved, you should detail, the "edited stuff" of this map.

Map Submission Rules
Uniqueness
The map must bring something new to the table. It can't just be another clone of X popular map. It must be significantly different from existing maps.
You can't just take DotA, add a few heroes and call it a new map.

I have the 1.26 and 1.29 version so, I could play Sogat map in the 1.26 and yours in the 1.29. Usefull to have both for this reveiw.
I restarted the game a lot of times to see Sogat heroes and yours. Also had to take notes imposible to remember all this.

my review:
(note when I say re-skined, it means different model same Sogat skills)

1) Lelion new hero, tool tip missing of 1 skills, learn that skill, no new skill that skill seems buged,
2) Bloodmage re-skined.
3) Cryptlord re-skined.
4) Unknown aka A hero, it has 3 passives at the begin, , the dissease pasive has a huge annoying teleport aura the hole game.
5) ghost re-skined with a male centaur dryad, but still ghost text.
6) Priest of the moon re-skined
7) Paladin, reskined
8) magical girl has a skill with the daemon hunter skill and daemon hunter text, the special one.
9)Arthas reskin.
10)Momo: the learn skills icons and the skill icons doesn´t match, will talk about this later.
11) Sekeleton lord is a reskin I dont remember well if was dreadlord or the eredar/draenei (30 heroes cant memorice them all), I remember it has the sleep as 1 skill.
12) black rock shooter, hero type missing, kigami is a blade master, black rock shoter is a level 1... no text, the pasive aura is very visually annoying, black shooter cant develop new skills in level 2 because the requirements are 3,5,8,10 the level 8 requirement is more a loss than a win early
13) Beastmaster tool tip missing, same as momo reasearch icons not equal to skill icons.
14) daemon hunter reskin
15) goku: hame hame ha has a khadgar gem as reasearch skill, and as skill is the frost orb, a skill with acid icon goes to a skill of steal conjure.
took note of that.
16) dryad reskin
17) keep item , 2 removed I counted.
18) the guy smiling, why? it just breaks inmersion, like this is april fools day.

Gameplay
This map has deleted Xogat easy and normal mode, deleted dual hero mode (wich was a great mode), and left normal hero and random hero modes.



the modes of this map are the same as extreme categories of Sogat original map (in Sogat map click extreme and go to the 4 categories), here we have the 4 categories.
View attachment 320610
View attachment 320608View attachment 320607
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played Sogat hardest mode and at the very begining I was having a hard time.


On the good points of this map Impossible siege, the merchant was upgraded in such way that you have a category click there and items, so it was improved a lot the merchant.

Overall:

-as new things we can count the very good merchant and the 7 new that need some fixing here and there.
the more challenging seems to me as now we can only choose the 4 extreme levels that Sogat develop in the original map.

-About the not equal learn and skill icons, thats not a good idea,an unecesary use of icons, when you are figthing for you life, you dont have the time to memorice 2 icons per skill and say I want to upgrade this one, but the icon was another.

-some skills are awsome visually huge, but also annoying and distracting, reduce the size half will help to avoid distractions.


I didnt test the new merchant, just click the categories to see inside items, hard to do while you are also figthing.

Sadly I have to say that I am not sure if is really necesary to have Sogat clone maps, the oringal was good enough, so to make an approval of a clone, a lot of work must be done so it can be a new map, reskin the heroes and pre-existant skills doesnt count as new heroes.

IMO it should be set to awaiting update.

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Veldris said:

Hi thanks for your feedback but there are things must be done to Balance the gameplay for the Title
Can you name me 10 things to Update or upgrade/imbalance make them better?
As for the Dual mode it's Unrestoreable also was useless and imbalance
Thanks.

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Ragnaros17 said:

I couldnt test your map all that you would wish or I would wish because I had to invest a lot of time to play the original game to know what was original and what was new, a lot of restarts and change to 1.26 to 1.29

the list I did, I did to win time so you can work some things, like the tool tip missing of 2 skills

IMO, dont reskin heroes, so reviewers can figure out more easy that you are using the same heroes with the same skills that Sogat did, so they can focus more in test the new heroes than the reskin ones. It will really help reviewers.

As for the Dual mode it's Unrestoreable also was useless and imbalance
sad to hear, in terms of triggering it was a beauty thing.

Unknown aka A hero, it has 3 passives at the begin
3 passives for a hero is not a good idea, cast skills is part of the fun, the ideal is 2 low level casting, 1 passive optional, and 1 level 6 powerfull.

I was planing to re-test your map, but there are lot of maps, and is hard to give feedback to all of them, I have more knoledge to balance melee, actually all the maps I did are melee, (and just now ,a new melee map was uploaded)

there is also a second clone map of Sogat map X Hero Siege 3.33 Plus
but I am not reviewing that one.

Edit: played with Unkwon , Momo, Leon and goku

forgot to review Leon, nice skill ominislash very nice one.

about balance I can tell you this goku is much better, why? because the skill at L1 train

at L1 you have with train 5200 HP , wile the others 2700,
and at L4 goku has like 7000, while the others have 2850
with the first boss the one wich does many phantoms I lost with all the 3 heroes except goku.
also that can be translated to the amount of potion you consume.

with goku I could kill the first boss easy.

MOMO is the worst hero from the 4 I tested because that skill flower that quits you hp, it really puts you in a dangerous situation wile hamehameha is really safe and they are equal in damage.

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Veldris said:

Thank you so much I will make sure all you said is Covered And quoted!

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Ragnaros17 said:

Glad to help.

I have to say that my review is very icomplete, I couldnt do it fully, .

while a melee map can be reviewed and moderated in 10 mins only by looking inside the editor, this type of maps require a lot of beta test and I am not a good player in any category.

so well, you can invest time in improve goku and Momo

because the problem of momo skill, you have to consume a potion each time you cast a flower, so compared to the others is much better to consume mana than hp.

by the way I am not map reviewer, just an user, I cant moderate maps, when you update your map it will be back to the pending section and probably a map reviewer will test it (not me , I am not good player in survival ones) , also this needs to be tested with 3 in multiplayer and my pc and internet conections are crap, even firefox lags.

good luck with your proyect.

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deepstrasz said:

Read my post here:
X Hero Siege 3.33 Plus

Awaiting Update.

---

If you want more reviews, you should participate in the The Grand Review Exchange!

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Veldris said:

No disrespect intended but are you that lazy to review both maps?

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deepstrasz said:

We don't want to have multiple versions of the same map like on EpicWar. Hiveworkshop is not a map dump. I'd set one to substandard anyways since they don't seem too different from the original so instead of something like that to happen, I suggested you both work on one version.

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Veldris said:

How bout you review both and decide which stays and which needs to be deleted? sounds fair.

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Ragnaros17 said:

as long as both versions have an amount of work that makes it very different from the original game both have a chance.
dont know about the other entry but your merchant and skills like ominislash is a good start.

As example I played Stronghold TD remastered wich added 8 new games modes, 1 of them was a wave mode that improved the game a lot making it far much competitive and even now you can play solo not as before.

tested with Goku

so my Goku L5 with Train x2 had 11 K hp, as powerfull as 4 heroes, I buy 2 spheres, the gloves of haste, and nothing more because with 700 gold you do nothing

that meat golem green that cames with 2 red dragons, I could took down the red dragons,

but the meat golem is imposible even with 4-5 heroes, because goku with train in hp worth x4 easy 3000 hpx4 = 12 K
also the HP regen makes it imposible to weak it, killed goku in 6 hits, a normal hero can go down in one hit I can estimate, and while resurrecting, that thing recovers HP to full.

another thing, went to goku to destroy 1 tower to the left path, a Level 9 gigant revenant appeared and 1 hit ko. but that was in other play.

and thats as far I can get with goku.

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Mau5Bau5 said:

Ive been a huge fan of Sogats map ever since i first got to play it, and am always happy to see people enjoying it as well, and even going for their own versions, hopefully as hommage to Sogat himself

Ive tried the map on my own several times, and found some things that might need some more love:

- Goku seems to get +100 stat points if he lvls up his stat-point ability (golden plus), which is just way too much for lvl 1
- apart from Goku there dont seem to be alot on heroes who can handle the first dragon attack, the golem is way too beefy (if you are on your own), he one-hits every champ. IMO he should get a way lower ATK, and some more health instead, to make it seem more like a bossfight, and not a game ending damage monster after 4 mins
- paying 450 Lumber for 20k Gold is a huge mistake, once you baught 2-3 of those On-hit-resources-items for 2.5k, you litterally have an infinite amount of gold after like 5 minutes, since they seem to stack, too easy to abuse this system.
- Making the Bossitems available for purchase (lighting blade etc) was kinda of a bad move as well, since they are easier to get than your custom made items, and way stronger as well (in the beginning)
- The Shop upgrade itself was a good idea, loved it, BUT its abit annoying to search trough the store the first few games, whilst the creeps keep spawing like crazy, setting that shop up in the main building would be alot easier for players to handle!
- The 'Dragon Attacks' should get their own timer! Its impossible to plan enough time for the bosses atm, since youll never know if a dragon will spawn, that should change imo
- How in the Hell am i supposed to defeat Yas and Zed?! ive tried it with 3 different chars, fully equipped, and they just kill me with like 2 swipes, they seem to be alittle too strong. Also, their 'Quest Text' (F9) is still the one from Sogats map!
- Im not entirely sure if its meant to be like this, but after dying in a special event, my hero symbol on the upper left disappears, and after the timer for my ressurection runs out, i wont revive, so dead means dead? or is that some kind of mistake? i really hope its a mistake, otherwise that would just be a bad idea, and kind of ruins the fun of playing it with people who arent that supergood playing wc3 but still want to enjoy

-BALANCE! - The most important word in mapmaking.
--Some abilities are just way too strong, others just lost its use completely. e.g. the summonable portal from Sogats map, which shoots Ghosts. Now for some reason there are 2 of them, and they are targetable/killable? why? The Blademaster can stay invis for 50 seconds? Why? What use does this ability have on this map AT ALL, apart from hiding in the first special event, which is kinda cheap tbh?

--Some Champions seem to just be copies from sogats map, with slight changes, which well, may have been meant as a nice idea or hommage or whatever, but it actually shouldnt be like this, if you intend to make your own clone, youd need at least the majority of heroes to be unique and sth new, for it to actually be interresting and count as your own work. That being the Case, making only your own heros available on this map, until you finsih more heroes, would be the way to go in my opinion, other players seem to have taken offense with that as well as far as i can tell, so maybe think about removing sogats heroes (ofc 1 or 2 can stay, but that should be all tbh)

There is some more stuff i realized, but im quite out of time right now.

All in all i like the energy that has gone into this map, there are some great new ideas and some much needed updates which may bring this map back on the table, but to be perfectly honest it seems as if your motivation left you along the way, several features seem unfinished and sloppy, and the Heroes are terribly imbalanced.

There is still much to be done, but if you should keep the updates coming i can see this map turning out quite nice!

So thank you, and happy editing

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Mau5Bau5 said:

Well, I managed to beat the game on my own using the Marine. So you should change the discription, its possible on ur own, not only with 4 players

Here some other things i realized while playing:

- Bug: The second special event uses lumber to count your kills, and after the event itll be set back to 0, no matter how much wood you had before!
- The Marines 'armor ability' is fairly useless, i had like 31k armor in the end, so 1k doesnt reallly matter
- The Nether Dragons attack-range is shorter than that of the Hydras, it would help ALOT if they had the same range!
- Either the Knight is too expensive, or the Nether Dragon is too Cheap, ill let you decide how to handle that (1k lumber for the knight and the dragon just feels wrong)

- You ABSOLUTELY have to insert some kind of pet/horse/whatever with a Hero-Inventory and Invul Armor!!
Maybe use the Robo-Animal item already used in vanilla, and tweak the spawned unit abit?
-> Reason: Your recipes often use alot of items at once. Never more than 5, which is absolutely fine, but it happened more than once, that I had to put some of my strong items away to finish another item.
Which would be fine, if the 'Dragon Attacks' wouldnt appear to be so random; often times I was in the middle of sorting the about 12 items on the ground to finish stuff, and some big monster shows up
without warning.
On top of that, its a mess if you have to go back to the main building/leave your lane in later stages.
An item carrying sheep or sth like that would help a bunch with that, and would honestly make the crafting system feel alot easier to handle.


Well, thats all for today

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