Arena of Might v1.1

Moderator · Jan 10, 2014

11:24, 30th Mar 2014
Hell_Master: See here:

eubz;2505438 said:
Short Review
1. Terrain is flat in most places. But, nice use of tile variations.
2. You do not have texts, quests or hints to tell a player what to do.
3. Skills used are mostly warcraftish and not so original. Each hero has his unique upgrader shop so avoid other players to buy in the upgrade shop not for him. If a hero has a full upgrade, give a hint/message that he cannot anymore upgrade his skills because its in the max level or just remove all upgrades in the shop belonging to the unit with max level of ability.
4. How many times a battle should occur? I think, it just hints me trice.
5. Try to create new spells.
6. Try to follow the unit when the camera view is very far by using pan camera. I am lost with my hero when some move instantly unit event occurs.
Vote:1/5 Needs fix

Shadow Fury · Jan 10, 2014

Damn awful map! Here is my review:-

- The terrain was completely empty and flat, looking very very bad
- Heroes were nothing special, with abilities already learnt
- Items were really few and copying the old ones e.g Claws of Attack +1, +2, +3... until +10 Nothing really new
- No exciting gameplay
- Nothing that makes you want to play the map again

There are too many other issues so I will go directly to the suggestions:-

- Read tutorials about terraining, you urgently need to read them!!!
- Giving normal abilities is not a good idea! Give Hero abilities which can be learned by leveling up
- Icons MUST fit the Heroes. Grom Possessed icon was used for the Chaos General and of course it didn't match. There is an icon which fits him on the Hive in the Icons section
- More items which don't copy old ones! E.g convert some Claws of Attack into Swords, Axes, Spears... You can make a Blazing Sword which boosts attack by 5 and gives splash damage. Frost Lance which boosts attack by 3 and slows down enemy units...
- Make something that makes your game amusing, exciting and not too short
- Your description could be enhanced with screenshots

Till now, 1/5 and vote for REJECTION!

CandyPoper · Jan 10, 2014

Well... gonna get started on those things then, i will update when it's done, hope it won't take too long

IamFootman061 · Jan 11, 2014

Shadow Fury said:
Review

You must not discourage him. Maybe just put some suggestions. Do not put people down on their map. It will discourage them to make another map.

My comment:
Gonna review it.

IamFootman061 · Jan 11, 2014

IamFootman061 Presents

Arena of Might

IamFootman061 Review

Good Things

Fair Things

Bad Things

Items. Items is good but it's too few. I suggest you make more item to make the game looks good.

Terrain. The terrain is good for an arena but it's empty. You can put some doodads there.

Spells. Most of them is not a custom spells. Put some nice spells with nice effects to make it enjoyable.
Tips. The Quest log is quite empty. You could put some tips there or just put an ingame text.

Rating

3/5

VOTE FOR APPROVAL

Shadow Fury · Jan 11, 2014

I gave him suggestions as you see IamFootman and didn't try to discourage him.

CandyPoper · Jan 11, 2014

Ok, i updated the map, if you want to see the changes check the "Change Log"... Hope it's better now

Shadow Fury · Jan 12, 2014

Well, what can I say, I noticed a terrain improvement but it's still bad-looking and a bit flat. Some new items but still there are a lot of old ones e.g Ring of Protection, Claws of Attack... I can accept putting Potions of Healing/Mana, putting ONE Claws of Attack and Ring of Protection but repeating them so usually as you did is totally awful! Many abilities are obviously copy-pasted! They still look like the dull ancient Blizzard abilities and when I have this feeling, it means the abilities are NOT original. Use custom icons for some of the abilities and for more items, they'll look great.
Here are some abilities you could insert in the game:-

Bursting Flames
The Hero causes flames to burst vigorously around him/her, dealing great damage to enemy units in a small area around the Hero (Thunder Clap)
Circle of Frost
Causes a circle of frost novas to be created around the Hero, freezing all enemy units in the circle for a short duration. (War Stomp)
Aura of Degeneration
This Hero is so dreadful that it produces a malicious aura which badly affects enemy units, causing them to have decreased movement and attack speed (Endurance Aura) Use negative values to let his ability work correctly

And also don't let the abilities be already learnt!

Meh, raising my vote from 1 ---> 1.5 but still the rating remains 1

CandyPoper · Jan 12, 2014

Ok, but i don't get one thing, how did this map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...77838/?prev=status=a&search=arena&d=list&r=20 got 4 rating + approved and it too doesn't have custom items, abilities, few icons not matching the heroes , not a lot of items, skills are copy-pasted, not impressive terrain?? Can someone answer me that? Basicly same things my map has/had

edo494 · Jan 12, 2014

CandyPoper said:
Ok, but i don't get one thing, how did this map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...77838/?prev=status=a&search=arena&d=list&r=20 got 4 rating + approved and it too doesn't have custom items, abilities, few icons not matching the heroes , not a lot of items, skills are copy-pasted, not impressive terrain?? Can someone answer me that? Basicly same things my map has/had

while Shadow Fury's review has weigth, as any Hive member's, but you should wait for more reviews, ideally moderator review(that may take a while tho)

Theeffi · Jan 12, 2014

CandyPoper said:
Ok, but i don't get one thing, how did this map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...77838/?prev=status=a&search=arena&d=list&r=20 got 4 rating + approved and it too doesn't have custom items, abilities, few icons not matching the heroes , not a lot of items, skills are copy-pasted, not impressive terrain?? Can someone answer me that? Basicly same things my map has/had

That map is old, and probably at that time there wasn't so high requirements to get approved like it is now.

And different reviewers value other things more than some others.

The map is based on fighting against other players, so I would probably value more those fighting elements than the terrain. But everyone likes to have some eyecandy right?

Shadow Fury · Jan 12, 2014

CandyPoper said:
Ok, but i don't get one thing, how did this map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...77838/?prev=status=a&search=arena&d=list&r=20 got 4 rating + approved and it too doesn't have custom items, abilities, few icons not matching the heroes , not a lot of items, skills are copy-pasted, not impressive terrain?? Can someone answer me that? Basicly same things my map has/had

You are right, that map cannot get more than 2 and I, by myself, would give it 1.5 like this one because terrain is very flat and lacks of doodads. After some time you play, it gets boooooring.
Coming back to this map, it is not the worst one I played. There are worse believe me so don't be demotivated or discouraged by me, just keep practising more and reading tutorials to reach a decent level.

-Kobas- · Jan 15, 2014

IamFootman061 said:
[size=5

Arena of Might
[/size]]
IamFootman061 Review

...

How can this post possible be map review?

You must not discourage him. Maybe just put some suggestions. Do not put people down on their map. It will discourage them to make another map.

He did gave him suggestions. But I can't agree on this 2nd part. You see life will never go easy on you. As soon as you learn that life is harsh and that you are alone in everything you do, that's better for you. When you gather strength to stand and fight alone you will have some chance to succeed. Same goes for map section, it's not about how much 5/5 ratings you can get, it's about how many 1/5 you won't. There is no point in making 2 or 10 maps if they all suck.

CandyPoper said:
Ok, but i don't get one thing, how did this map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...77838/?prev=status=a&search=arena&d=list&r=20 got 4 rating + approved and it too doesn't have custom items, abilities, few icons not matching the heroes , not a lot of items, skills are copy-pasted, not impressive terrain?? Can someone answer me that? Basicly same things my map has/had

Maps uploaded in that time were accepted here like they are on EpicWar. Only requirements were no viruses and no porn.

EDIT:

Map terrain is horrible.
Space is divided into 4 sections (hero selection, arena, abilities upgrade area and battleground or whatever).
Now all those shops take 2 much space, they are small sized and could fit into some corner of the map just fine or some base, creep camp whatever.
Recipe shop show recipes as icons, pro map makers don't do it like that, you display item with icons, swap those with recipes after selling and use recipes in crafting again to get final items.
All that space around (shallow water around map is useless, you should add some ramps or something to increase playable area size).

Missing environment doodads.
Missing lightning and special effect doodads.
Missing terrain tiles variation and some unique terrain crafting skills worth showing.

Dunno how to help you here, start with Blizzard melee maps, check how they made terrain.
When you understand basic of it you should move forward advanced tutorials.

Coding is really as well bad.
Memory leaks.

JASS:

function Trig_Vampiric_Aura_2_Actions takes nothing returns nothing
	call RemoveItem(GetItemOfTypeFromUnitBJ(GetManipulatingUnit(),'I01E'))
	call UnitRemoveAbilityBJ('A01R',GetTriggerUnit())
	call UnitAddAbilityBJ('A01S',GetTriggerUnit())
	call AddSpecialEffectLocBJ(GetUnitLoc(GetTriggerUnit()),"Abilities\\Spells\\Human\\ThunderClap\\ThunderClapCaster.mdl")
	call DisableTrigger(GetTriggeringTrigger())
endfunction

This is how your gui trigger Vampiric Aura 2 actions look like when converted to jass.
You never destroy special effect you create.
Also GetUnitLoc will return unit location that won't be destroyed as well.

Should I mention that you have quite a lot of those triggers.

JASS:

if(Trig_Remove_Units_Func002001())then
		call ForGroupBJ(GetUnitsOfPlayerAll(Player(0)),function Trig_Remove_Units_Func002002002)
	else
		call DoNothing()
	endif
	if(Trig_Remove_Units_Func003001())then
		call ForGroupBJ(GetUnitsOfPlayerAll(Player(1)),function Trig_Remove_Units_Func003002002)
	else
		call DoNothing()
	endif
// this goes down forever...

Don't use Do Nothing trigger action it create this call DoNothing() jass line that call empty function.

JASS:

function DoNothing takes nothing returns nothing
endfunction

Just ignore that and code will work perfectly fine.
This was added only for one lined if the else gui trigger action where you needed field value to be filed.

Another bad thing here is that you create same checking for each player.
Use for loop and instead of Player(0), Player(1) use IndexA or custom variable.
GetUnitsOfPlayerAll(Player(0)) Here you leak unit group.
Ok will stop for now, this should be more than enough for start.
Search for tutorials about memory leaks.
Search for tutorials about GUI trigger efficiency.

Gameplay is all about fancy custom imported models.
You just increase map size for nothing. Use those models for bosses or some epic units in game.

No game modes.
No game difficulties or some special setup.
There is no re-playability in 1 word, after 1 or 2 games no one will play map again.
You must keep players interested, each game should be unique and different.

May I ask why you use 3 same abilities when you can use 3 levels of same ability instead?
Just level up ability when you learn level instead of removing old and adding new one.

There are many flaws and errors in general here.
You should work more on this map before next update.

Useful Links:
The Important Site Rules.
You can use Map Development Section for testing and improving your maps.
Need help with triggers/memory leaks? Make a thread in the Triggers & Scripts Section.
Got any World Editor related questions? Make a thread in the World Editor Help Zone Section
Got any Requests (Terrain, resources, spells, systems, loading screens...)? Make a thread in the Requests Section.
The Important Site Tutorials.
If you have any complaints or questions about your map, please make a thread here: Map Resource Moderation.

LordDz · Jan 15, 2014

CandyPoper said:
Ok, but i don't get one thing, how did this map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...77838/?prev=status=a&search=arena&d=list&r=20 got 4 rating + approved and it too doesn't have custom items, abilities, few icons not matching the heroes , not a lot of items, skills are copy-pasted, not impressive terrain?? Can someone answer me that? Basicly same things my map has/had

Probably because the map is from 2005, where the general standard was lower than it is today, 2014.

IamFootman061 said:
IamFootman061 Presents

[size=5

Arena of Might
[/size]]
IamFootman061 Review

[color=green

[color=yellow

[color=red

Good Things[/color]]Items. Items is good but it's too few. I suggest you make more item to make the game looks good.

Fair Things[/color]]Terrain. The terrain is good for an arena but it's empty. You can put some doodads there.

Bad Things[/color]]Spells. Most of them is not a custom spells. Put some nice spells with nice effects to make it enjoyable.
Tips. The Quest log is quite empty. You could put some tips there or just put an ingame text.

[color=orange

Rating[/color]]
3/5

VOTE FOR APPROVAL

If you give this map 3/5 and a vote for approval when it clearly lacks things, what maps will be given 1-2/5? =/

Shadow Fury · Jan 15, 2014

LordDz said:
If you give this map 3/5 and a vote for approval when it clearly lacks things, what maps will be given 1-2/5? =/

That's what I thought!

CandyPoper · Jan 15, 2014

Gameplay is all about fancy custom imported models.
You just increase map size for nothing. Use those models for bosses or some epic units in game.

But this map is arena where players fight each other with no creeps or bosses..

-Kobas- · Jan 15, 2014

CandyPoper said:
But this map is arena where players fight each other with no creeps or bosses..

Ok then I made a mistake about it.
But still I can give you next suggestion. Because map is new, people don't know what to expect, then when you show them custom models people won't know what to expect at all, they will need to test each hero. At the other hand some players prefer (let's say Humans) over other races. When you place paladin there, we already know what abilities to expect (some healing spells, auras etc).
You don't need to increase map size at very start. People don't like waiting for map to download (garena, battle.net etc where it can last very long depending on number of players entered game without map, their connections etc etc).

And also last thing, if you import custom models, you need custom icons as well, not just for hero model, but for hero spells and so on.

And and last thing, if you still decide to go with custom models, at least choose models similar to wc3 ones (awesome example http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/royal-captain-108101/) because you don't need icons for it and so on.

Hope this helped a little more explain my concern.
I won't reject map as well (for now), will leave it here so people can give you a lot of critics, trust me, it's better now when you start, than when you already learn something (that is usually wrong).
Don't be afraid to ask, we are here to help you, after all who knows, maybe you are the one next Icefrog.

Footman16 · Jan 20, 2014

-Kobas- said:
He did gave him suggestions. But I can't agree on this 2nd part. You see life will never go easy on you. As soon as you learn that life is harsh and that you are alone in everything you do, that's better for you. When you gather strength to stand and fight alone you will have some chance to succeed. Same goes for map section, it's not about how much 5/5 ratings you can get, it's about how many 1/5 you won't. There is no point in making 2 or 10 maps if they all suck.

You're statement I find very difficult to comprehend. Life isn't harsh, life is what you make of it, in your opinion it's harsh but that doesn't mean it is. Nobody has the right to judge what life is and isn't not even me so I'm not saying your opinion is invalid but that it's that, an opinion. No one is ever alone and that outlook is more detrimental than anything else.

About the previously accepted maps, why aren't they rejected using the new standards?

@the author - Also on this map as people have mentioned terrain is a bit of a large point so look at other maps for references and ideas even non hero arena maps for a bit of originality.

-Kobas- · Jan 21, 2014

@Footman16 let's not go off topic shall we

Maps are not rejected because moderators have no time to check huge databese of maps and because many of those authors and not active so we can't wait for response/update.

Footman16 · Jan 21, 2014

-Kobas- said:
@Footman16 let's not go off topic shall we
Maps are not rejected because moderators have no time to check huge databese of maps and because many of those authors and not active so we can't wait for response/update.

Ok that answers my questions thanks. If the author wants I would be willing to make terrain for him it would be simple yet approvable but an improvement none the less.

CandyPoper · Jan 21, 2014

Footman16 said:
Ok that answers my questions thanks. If the author wants I would be willing to make terrain for him it would be simple yet approvable but an improvement none the less.

Well that would be great because i don't really know what to do with the terrain. So if your willing to help me out i would be really thankful.

Footman16 · Jan 22, 2014

CandyPoper said:
Well that would be great because i don't really know what to do with the terrain. So if your willing to help me out i would be really thankful.

Just send me a pm with all you want. Theme, size etc and I'll try it get it back to you by next month.

eubz · Mar 30, 2014

Short Review

1. Terrain is flat in most places. But, nice use of tile variations.
2. You do not have texts, quests or hints to tell a player what to do.
3. Skills used are mostly warcraftish and not so original. Each hero has his unique upgrader shop so avoid other players to buy in the upgrade shop not for him. If a hero has a full upgrade, give a hint/message that he cannot anymore upgrade his skills because its in the max level or just remove all upgrades in the shop belonging to the unit with max level of ability.
4. How many times a battle should occur? I think, it just hints me trice.
5. Try to create new spells.
6. Try to follow the unit when the camera view is very far by using pan camera. I am lost with my hero when some move instantly unit event occurs.
Vote:1/5 Needs fix

Arena of Might v1.1

Arena of Might v1.1 (Map)

Moderator

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Short Review

Arena of Might

Good Things

Fair Things

Bad Things

Rating

[size=5

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Short Review

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