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mafe
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  • Hey mafe, you could change the text colour in your signature from gray to something more visible.
    mafe
    mafe
    Signature..... I've been editing my "current project" the entire time
    mafe
    mafe
    Sorry about wasting your time. Now it works of course.

    I guess to further improve the guide, I'll need more time. But yes, I'll try to do what you suggested.
    deepstrasz
    deepstrasz
    I'm glad it's solved.
    You could use hidden tags and tables instead of spoilers as the last make too much a dark background to read on. Or, maybe you could find a proper colour text to not tire the eyes.
    Just a quick question, Great One.

    What is your opinion on unused neutral/non-neutral creeps as creeps camps in melee maps. I am working on new melee and Naga would be quite fitting to the theme as neutral hostiles, but I fear that some balance issues can come with this decision. Would you mind sharing you opinion?
    mafe
    mafe
    I guess you have the neutral-naga units from the tft campaign in mind, or what other units?
    I believe that these and other "normal" player-controlled units tend to have (much) better stats than other creeps. For example the naga myrmidon is a lvl 4 unit (in terms of experience given when killed) with 1080 hp, 2 armor and about 18 dps (if I calculated correctly) and ensnare ability. A comparable normal lvl 4 creep is the centaur outrunner with 550 hp, 2 armor, 15 dps and no abilities. Maybe this is just an extreme example, but the issue might be that using these creeps takes much longer and you take more damage. I think one would have to look at each unit on its own, to find out if they are ok or if you need to be careful.

    Of course, you can also tamper with the unit stats (though this would make the map altered melee), or for example make the itemdrops stronger to mitigate the slower/more dangerous exp gain.
    Mr.Henci
    Mr.Henci
    I see, thanks a lot. I was considering changing the stats of the unit/ changing visuals of the "normal" melee creeps but as you mentioned, it would make the map altered melee. Seems I will have to be creative and utilize Sunken ruins creep.

    Once again, thank you for your time and perfect explanation.
    "If you have the time, you can try to make a 24 player now" No my gosh no, I didn´t find the clue to 6 player FFA, very hard because the only fair position for all is the circle hexagoon where every player is near every player. I hardly beginin to study for 6 player melee maps, you can design the 24 yourself. Normalice was an expert in 12 melee maps.
    WolfFarkas
    WolfFarkas
    still in terms of space a 480x480 would be madness, also I think 24 player will have lag
    WolfFarkas
    WolfFarkas
    also I started a 6 one, and I aim for FFA with high quality balance
    Daffa
    Daffa
    The 24 player lag is only for certain players :
    "Why people these days play on potato computer" (a random quote from someone on one of my PTR game)
    mafe
    mafe
    Yes this is correct. Does it matter if I use destructable ice blocks or destructable rocks? I just thought it might be good for visual variety.
    deepstrasz
    deepstrasz
    As long as it does not interfere with game balance, i.e. the eastern player getting faster to the mine than the western one, no biggie.
    mafe
    mafe
    I dont think it does. Both players would have to destroy 5+ doodads anyway to open a path for medium sized armies under realisitic circumstances.
    Either coincidence or you activated e-mail messages for your watched threads :p
    mafe
    mafe
    I just have too much time at the moment...
    6-The expansion would more clearly "belong" to one player. There are at least three factors that go against fastexpanding: Long distance for militia, easy to reach for enemy, strong creeps. However, at least the enemy needs to scout where you want to expand. As it stands, I would expect any human to veto this map vs undead.

    Is hard to me to get what is good what is bad and what should I do XD, if you want to explain me more
    I could move the expanding goldmines like 10,000 units of distance near
    mafe
    mafe
    It is a difficult topic which I cannot explain to full detail without writing hundreds of words. Let me just say the following: Look at any competitive 1v1 map and you will see that expansions typically satisfy the following criteria:
    -There is an expansion that is clearly closer to player A than to player B, and vice versa.
    -The creeps are lvl 17 total maximum, often lower (but only rarely a green spot).
    -The expansion can be reached with sufficient militia time left so that you can expect to creep the mine even in the face of minor harass.

    As always, these criteria are somewhat flexible and in fact the it would be good to have somewhat different situations on different maps. But I would expect that if you make one factor so that it makes expanding more difficult, then you add something else to slighlty help expanding. On your map however, I believe you add several things that discourage expanding and there is nothing to balance it.
    WolfFarkas
    WolfFarkas
    "On your map however, I believe you add several things that discourage expanding and there is nothing to balance it."
    so this is a good thing right?
    (note: yeah this is the first time I did a map with 1 expading per user and I don´t like it XD, but I saw things, maps with no expanding ahh!)
    mafe
    mafe
    Unfortunately no. I meant to say that "in relation to standard maps (i.e. maps like TM, EI etc which have proven to be balanced), expanding is harder on your map for several reasons". Now if you make expanding harder than usual, it changes balance in favor of races who tend to play without expansion.
    hello there, Another question about melee balance. Sunken ruins mercenary camps.
    https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/the-kraken-v-1-01.301737/#post-3223766

    A friend of mine thinks the sunken ruin mercenary camps are unbalanced. So what do you think?
    As example Abnomines in his map Swamped temple, he used lordaeron merc camps not the sunken ruins
    and the panda in the map coral reef used the sunken ruins merc camps

    so what do you think? not use them? use them defended with orange or better a red creep ?

    see ya
    mafe
    mafe
    I'm not completely sure. The snarecaster, turtle and snaper should be ok, but the snarecaster has entangling roots. If he would be available during the t1 stage, he would break the game; but he isnt available until the second ingame day begins. So it might work out fine.

    On the other hand, w3arena currently has two sunken ruins maps in the 1v1 mappool and both use Lordaeon summer camps nevertheless.
    WolfFarkas
    WolfFarkas
    so orange or red creep? or maybe a level 19 still orange, but a hard one
    mafe
    mafe
    I would probably go with lvl 17-20 camp. I'll have a look at your map and write some feedback in the thread.
    Reputation (+1):
    (Post) I don't agree with being fan of anything in a review. But I understand the early game consideration.
    may I ask you a melee balance question?
    when you review maps, I saw you put map has no critters , I am correct?

    now one of the contest judge said, that critters benefit undead (they can be killed and converted in skeletons)

    so what do you think?
    mafe
    mafe
    Yes I think there should be critters on melee map. They are useful for undeads because, as you said, they can be turned into skeletons. As it is a stable feature on most melee maps, it is a (small) factor that contributes to balance. If a map doesnt have critters, this could mean that undead is in a slightly worse position than usual.

    Critters are especially important if you have creep spots which dont leave any corpses when killed, such as spots with only skeletons, golems, air creeps, treants, banshees etc.
    I was afraid that everyone will blame me on rudeness and so on :)
    But I really don't like such kids.
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