morbent

No that should be allowed.

Hey you sarcastic entity, you're very good at effects. Can you teach me sometimes?

I'm okay morbent...well kinda.
You've got some hot icons there for the contest
You can still finish those, dem void walkers would be proud of those

'also..moose!

That's a bit awful. Well, me, I'm satisfying myself with this long weekend. Not doing things too much though.

How's life now? The contest was extended btw.

Wow men, Thanks for that
I'm glad you response to me quickly (Y)

THE FUCK!!! The helmet is very awesome I will study the process right now

Ok sir, BTW Thank you

I would like to see psd file to understand the process
Like maive burn, or kiteshield 3

I like your style in your icons, do you have psd files?

hey moose

Haha, hail morbent!

Hai!

did you use drawing tablet?

Reputation (+4):
(Post) sweetio

Reputation (+1):
(Post) amazing icons

Reputation (+4):
(Post) Looks cool!

Reputation (+4):
(Post) "Really bad at special effects stuff" - u're sure better than me

Yes, quite alive. Though in some ways quite dead.

got rejected

Reputation (+1):
(Post) Participation... and choosing that model

Hi morbent, by all means, do anything you want with it!

That is true, I've completely re-started on it, I'm going to finish the unit icon and that's it.

If you'd like to see the full process of how I got that result you can see it in a video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojGPF6NBYTE skip to 4:05

Yes!
It will be fun.

I'd be glad if u join us.

Icon Contest #13 - Icons for Director's Cut Models has started!

Ok man, take your time! I am glad to talk to you. I will miss you

----------
They just couldn't make it, as he calls the beasts. He is a friggin beastmaster with no spells. He tamed those creatures and calls them.
----------
Yeah, he calls them via mobile phone and they sudeenly got teleported straight to him...


----------
Or they walk alongside him.. uh.. come on, omg, imagine it as a real fight.
----------
I cannot imagine iust because it is your imagination. It is spell to summon Misha, not to call him. yes, Rexxar is more powerful than regular beastmaster since he has ability to shoow in air, and his bear is constant until dies, therefore he needs to summon him again. he drains mana for it as any other spell. They are summoned not called from deep sleep or invisible walking.
When he is out of mana he cannot ,,call beasts whose are walking amongh them or somehow I imagined in real fight"... yeah, I am imagining this, then I continued to play as summoning beasts


----------
he can call any beast to help him, not only pigs and hawks, he also probably can call a goat, a sheep, whatever
----------
There is also Beastmaster Fel Orc (Fel Warchief/Slavemaster ,odel) in Blizzard's map War Chasers, whose have Spirit Wolves, Water elemental and Inferno, and holy light as well... Riding horse, so he can by that logic call goat to help him too.


----------
But seriously, a race of gay elves and hot girls, why wouldn't fashion be the first on their mind ? Fuck survival, they gotta look stylish man.
----------
Whyare you calling them gay elves all time anyway?

----------
Titans? No man, you can be a self taught. Come on, lets not argue here, it's pointless.
----------
No we wont. You learn first about magic. I do not know that best but seem still better than you otherwice you would not write this. Learn what is Arcane magic and who can use is ,what is necromancy, fel/chaos magic, natural magics etc etc... Pit lord cannot learn how to be blademaster, or Orc cannot become Demon Hunter for some reasons I wont waste time much on explaining.
So yes, your point stands that you leanr how to use something, actually you can learn how to upgrade yourself but not to learn something new from zero.
How can I learn how to summon dead? Okay, I want to learn. It exists in Wc3 so I want to do Raise Dead. ? And.. Iam waiting... I am thinking... time is passing away I still did not learn how to do it.... Which proves that some things cannot be tough out of nowehere. You will have to use knowledge.



----------
He learned a lot from the beasts, no, beasts don't tame other beasts. So he didn't learn taming from them. Yea he learned other stuff but there are stuff he founded himself.
----------
He learned what they want, how to communicate with them, how to track them etc etc... Like any serious hunter knows...

----------
Do not look at strong units by stats, they are spellcasters, they can probably handle it differently. I'll bet it will take a lot of demonic energy to corrupt someone like Malfurion, so why not High Elves
----------
Hey i am enough with this ,,do not look at this do not look at that:" Can you simply see that I have right to speak same as you can? I have my reasons to look whatever I find fit same as you can...
I did not look here at stats.. I just looked at lore, where demons are corrupting forests and made felwood where all creatures which it affect got crazy, sick and violent. I saw from Fel Orcs turned from green orcs...
Idid not see that some ,,Blood" Elves can find way how to remove this IN OUTLAND SUROUNDE BY DEMINIC ENERGIES ALL TIME. If you remmeber from campaign Furion said that he is afraid that demonic corruption will affect Fellwood permanently. Even he and his shamans cannot manage to do this so far, and we now speak fairy tales how Blooed Elves will find some cure


----------
They did get a little corrupted but they don't really consume it directly, they just use it
----------
Its because I tried to explain you this several times already. You cannot ,,just use it" without being afected.


----------
(Illidan couldn't use the Skull of Gul'dan's power so he consumed it to do so - however, one can just use it as a great energy source. For example, it could be sacrificed in a ritual to get out all the energy and use it.
----------
And he got demonic claws, horns, wings etc etc...He changed, he mutated. Thus Blizzard in World Edit wrote Illidan (Evil). You have two Illidans. Wc3 one called Illidan and Frozen Throne called Illidan Evil, not Illidan Winged, not Illidan Horned, not Illidan Bigger, not Illidan Greater, but Illidan (Evil).This is what demonic energies are doing to anyone. You can accept or not, you chosed not. It is your right. I do not blame you.


----------
It's like radiation - it can be used as an energy source or be consumed and you get corrupted. Or something of that sort)
----------
But radiation as energy source, if not damaged is isolated. We are talking about directly injecting something in your body. Power source of blood elves is onnected with life source, it is actually life source. They would die without source of power/life. So, more precise to your example is can you use radioactive ball to throw at someone or swallow it to get enhanced? If you swallow it you will most likely die. But if you hold it in hand, it will slowly entering your body via skin. So in both case you are doomed, only that second way is slower.


----------
No it's not. Stop thinking so gameplay limited.
----------
And you stop with stopping me all time you think something different. I did not tell you this before because I though that after essays and essays you will learn that once. I did not say you ,,stop thinking like this", I said you instead to learn about types of magic to make your knowledge more complete.

----------
I doubt a succubus is more intelligent than me, she's just a bitch who knows nothing but lust and seduction. Doom guard - knowing spells doesn't make you intelligent, it could be natural, like Infernal Immolation. Satyrs are corrupted too and they aren't very smart. Kinda stupid, not as much as ghouls but still very stupid.
----------
No, for first time I am enough of arguing with you about some things.
I now need to explain you types of magic and how they work and who can use them, if you know you would not write something like this.


----------
There are no demon hunters actually, only 1 - Illidan. Don't look at Warcraft 3's RTS maps demon hunter, it's just a class for the players to play with since they didn't have more models. Don't look at melee maps lorewise please. They are for playing the game, not lore. Where else in the Campaign did you see Demon Hunters? Only Illidan is.
----------
Of course. You are right about that Illidan is only one demon hunter.
But lorewise demon hunter class can be actually used for deminic corrupted race since it is half demon half night elf.
Also, Illidan is only one, but how many Paladins you have? Sylvanas is one Ranger. She is Undead now, but how many rangers do you have aside her? There are some in Frozen Thone. How many Archmages, Liches, Dreadlords etc etc... Which proves that acyually many members of classes can be used.
Why then only one demon hunter? Why one blood Mage? Why Naga Witch?

----------
But even if they did have the units, that would mean more maps and so on. Just accept that they were like the Satyr Mobs we fight in order to complete the mission, not a race. They didn't continue living as a society. They have no society --> they are not a playable race.. they are just Mobs.
----------
So, Undeads have no society, but they are playable race... Elves have society. They still are not present as playable race, but only few units in Humans. Also I did not talk about playable races I talked about campaign missions. Naga has no society there, we haven't seen any town type of Naga. We have seen tribes of Fulborgs, Trolls ,Centaurs etc etc.. Yet they are no playable race. Tauren showed their village, their society yet they are only under Orcs.
Demons also do not have society. They have Black Citadel and such, but they are under constant war. No family lifes. Ni peace there.
Why would skeletons have society? Living corpses? And those are under race.


----------
Whoever finds a hole in a story doesn't know the story better than the writer just managed to see it better in some part of it. So you partially know Blood Elves better than they did or they just failed to make it better, but realized their mistake.
----------
Exactly, I said that too. I just found their mistake.


----------
I claimed that I completely know the story better, but WoWwise, I forgot to mention that
----------

----------
Warcraft 3 characters? I know them better than the WoW writers. Than Blizzard. Sorry for that misunderstanding.
----------
Oh no problem. yeah you are right. ABout WC3, we perhaps know better than WOW writters about some stuff.

But even you know story better. Lets say you are. I agree with you. But still whatever Blizzard release as offical it is official. I said you once already. Their game, they paid, their rules. We can only accept or reject it. We have right not to accept their story. But if we decide to play WOW or those heroes of storm we will have to play by their rules, not ours. So whatever we say we will turn only as pissed fans, not someone who knows better than them.

----------
Well take for example Rexxar's abilities - he summons bears and pigs. In reality he just calls them, it just is like a spell in the game. He isn't a spellcaster though.
----------
it is spell i nreality too, but different type of spell. This is summining spell. Such as Elementals, Wolves, Skeletons (book of summoning), except those are pigs, bears...
You have many types of magic.


----------
They were kinda gay.. so we never know. Probably fashion came first
----------
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

But girl killing creature to turn him into mana? That was epic example of blood elves. Nice, peaceful, beautiful face which in just moment turns out into witch's evil face...

----------
So blood elves changing clothes was a well broken rule, just not on time. It had to have been a bit later, when they joined Illidan.
----------
EXACTLY! this is what i was trying to say all time you just made it better, shorter!

----------
Meh they were like satyrs, corrupted NEs. Or something of that sort - just corrupted of any race, we also had corrupted Furbolgs, can't pay attention to all of them. Besides, corrupted NEs are brainless,
----------
Rock golems, revived undead corpses, Infernals, animals such as wovles, spiders, Fel beasts, summoned units and treants and Ogres are limited by inteligence...
Decent or higher intelligence have units such as necromancers, banshees, which have complex abilities such as cripple, possesion.... Also all spellcasters and anti spellcasters, those are higher intelligence, all alive units as troop soldiers have decent inteligence, as well creatures from level 5 up to level 7. Creatures level 9, 9 ,19, 11 and Heroes have very high intelligence.
So no, Sucubbuses are intelligence since she can mind control you and me. And manipulate, seduce... Dom Guards are only one units which have 4 spells. It casts cripple, rain of fire, war stomp, dispel magic, has resistant skin and shoots in air. he is general or commander usually thus very intelligent mutipurpose unit.
So regarding corrupted night elves, since they use trants, corrupted races and satyrs, yeah they are low intelligent units, but Satyrs are ,edium intelligent. They use shadowmld to sambush enemies, use puge, mana burn, raise dead, unholy aura, animate deads which som are complex spells which can be used by intelligent units only.


----------
they have no heroes who can think, so no story.
----------
Who says that? Demon hunters are corrupted anyway so they can be with them, they perfectly fit to them... Satyrs latter worked for Illidan to stop Maeiev.
Otherwice, they can have demons to lead them... Dreadlords, like in that mission against Illidan.
If you currently cannot think of story does not mean that there is no story.
They are something like sub race, unfinished race. Tree of Ages, Ancient of war, Ancient protector and corrupted moon well currenly. They just need Altar, Aviary/Spellcaster/another troop production building and item producer.Hunters hall maybe if you are up to upgrade them.
So yeah, half of work still needed but cause they are just reskin, it is easier to recolor ancients by filters.


----------
Is that sarcasm ? You know better story than Blizzard too - Blood Elf flags and so on.
----------
I do not know story better than blizzard I just found holes, in current story which I agree on I just find some mistakes, while you claim something completely different to be than offical storylore. Blizzard made Illidan bad, and call him Evil in world editor, and marked him everywhere as evil, you claimed totally oposite, that he is good.
I for example amd talking WHAT ABOUT I SAW, not about what I think to be umlike you. I saw new clothes, new flags, new name, new enerything in beggining since they are running away. in their last stand. If Night elves did not come to help them, if Tyrande did not sacrifice her life on that bridge, they all would be dead. So dead people to have time to change flags, clothes, name and everything... IF night elves did not intervene, they would not be called blood elves since they would not exist they would be dead, and nobody would know them as blood elves. Even those ngiht elves did not know about their name change... So my point stands: survive first, then you change what you wish. That was just mistake, some part which was wrong, not whole story. But you are claiming something quite different that know completely story about Illidan better than blizzard.
You forgot that they are released from prison in third mission, you forgot those 3 plus 2 with nigh elves!


----------
Well it did get explaind later on, but it was weird at first I agree.
----------
Yeah that was also what I though too.


----------
You don't always need a teacher. Where does the first teacher come from?
----------
From titans maybe?
yes you know teacher. For arcane, necormancy or holy magic..
We do not know where fro mreaxxar got his spells. But even he is single those are just summoning beasts, he was living among beasts, he learned lot from them.


----------
Well we aren't sure about that, if they somehow master it? It is like eating bad food, you don't become bad yourself if you can handle it (vultures).
----------
We are sure. It is explained many times over that whoever gets affected by fel magic or demonic blood starts to corrupt/mutate. There is no single example of immunity to it. Blood elves definitvely cannot avoid that, since it corrupts and transforms body, and they are weaker than Orcs, Fulborgs and many others by body level (they do not even have strong unit) who got corrupted/transformed.

----------
Well the transformation was something similar. After they ran away from Garithos I think they become BEs, cant recall really.Was it from the first mission? Then yea, they could have kept the High Elves a bit more I agree.
----------
It was not first mission. That is why we are not understanding each other here, because you forgot campaign.
First mission is actually when Night Elves are helping them.You have there two missions with blood elf under Nigh Elf chapter.
So, in Alliance campaign, there continues blood elf campaign. You have first mission to repair those observatories and found base. Later you need to fight Undead... So in third mission, you are captured and need to break from prison.
Then, since fourth mission they should be called Blood Elf. (plus thoe two pre-missions with nigh elves). That makes difference much

----------
Uh.. but I really wish we could at least try a different theme than cycle on this one like forever
----------
Well, we can talk about other things as well, but still rapid fire should be unlished!


----------
No man you don't get how it works. You can't write everything cuz that would mean having to write 2 stories for the time of 1
----------
You can if you writed something less if point is already made. Arthas scripts took too much time for example and I htink it was more than clear everything about him.


----------
Actually the idea of the blood elves was pretty cool.
----------
Depends of who you ask. For me, it is not in beggining. Later, it is as everything you explained correct. But as I already explained, it is too much of happenings for simple survival. (clothes, flags, changes etc etc...)


----------
so they chose right (however due to Blizzard wanting to turn him evil, he did not
----------
And again we come to part that uyou know beter story than blizzard and you are right regarding that Illidan is good, not bad, even they marked him evil since Wc3.


----------
Are there certain rules for classes? Rexxar came from his own - he just beast mastered. Is he banned too?
----------
I did not counr Rexxar. He is logical since he comes from wild. Rexxar is completely new charatcer and it is revealed though campaign about his story and origins.
Blood Elves do not come from wildness. They are based on someone who is destroyed. That someone has his origins, unlike this new ,,type" whose not ger explained anything at all about them


----------
He couldn't have "studied it"
----------
he ciuld actually. Blizzard explained that Heroes are trained. Not born like that to be heroes. They do not have powers from beggining, but got during training and magic studying. Come on, you know tht Dalaran is used for it to create mages such as Jaina and Archmage. Later it is explained that Kael studied there too


----------
It is symbolical, they call themselves blood elves since they gotta use darker methods (blood and such) to sustain themselves. It's logical.
----------
It is not logica since they could not predict that they will go with Illidan to hunt down demons and drain their mana to get power. So my point still stands, until Illidan they should be still called ,,Elf remains" or survivors.

----------
They are no longer "high". They still look kinda like High Elves but chose the color red to be their main. Not a huge difference.
----------
it is huge difference, since their life was based on clean, holy magic... Later with Illidan they turned out to use dark magic sources which it completely goes against everything high elf stands for.


----------
They didn't turn undead or anything, didn't have all their culture made different. Just slight changes
----------
Those are slight changes at beggining, big changes and mutations are comming. As I said you already several times, you cannot drain life or mana from demon or being influenced with fel magic without being changed.


----------
Uh, and come on, it's an RTS
----------
And?


----------
Probably it took them months to change clothes not a few days as we see in game.
----------
Exactly that was my point. Wasting months while you barely survived extermination. Remember that when Nigh Elves found them they were still running away from Undeads. So, if nigh elves did not help Kael, he would be died most likely, but still had time to change their clothes to completely new brand?

----------
Don't rely on the game factor i told ya
----------
I am here not watching game factor, but logic factor which is missed here.

----------
it's much cooler and different
----------
For you maybe and blood elf fans.


----------
So fuck the rules, they are there to be broken
----------
Yeah, great argument
Why rejecting WOW storyline then? Fuck rules they are to be broken.
Broken is good then. in WOW storyline Illidan is completely Evil ,Blood Elf are completely evil, so yeah, rules are to be broken.


----------
I am a coward myself, I would probably fight like Kil'Jaeden if I had to so it's not a big deal.
----------
Same goes here to be honest

----------
As if they seem even more bastardly when they fight from behind (since the good guys don't backstab actually)
----------
Everyone fight from behind when he is forced... Especially today in this world since many people are armed with knives, guns and various weapon. So go fight in close hand to hand with them.

----------
Yes but my points stands. 8 vs 10 is not very far from 2 vs 10. It's still disbalanced, so following your logic it should all be 10 10 10
----------
It is very far, according to my logic, I know my logic because I am using it by the way... 8 vs 10 is just 2 in difference. 2 vs 10 is 8 in difference. So having 8 missions is differently than having just 2. Maybe not from your logic, but from mine it is.


----------
Yea but the mass of undeads are not. That's what I said actually "Unlike Kel'Thuzad and Arthas" (leaders) the rest like ghouls are dumb minions.
----------
You do realise that Kel Thuzad and Arthas are heroes? leaders? And they are still not free willed, they have master. Who is their master? Lich king? Former Orc?
Arthas is not smart, he is actually but mind controlled by Lich King. Like rest of his army. Remember that since lich king got weakened, some of Undead and Sylvanas could break from mind control and got free.
So some Undeads did not willingly joined, they are mind controlled.
And mostly are serveing Burning Legion which is demonic army.
And accordinf your logic, demons are still 100 times smarter cause they have tons of heroes as well. Army of dreadlords, Pitlords, Eredars (Kil Jaden, Archimone) etc etc...


----------
Yea same goes for demons though. Mass is stupid.
----------
mass maybe is stupid we do not know it since it is not shown that they are mind controlled. But demons are not ghouls... They are far more powerful, and alive, not dead.


----------
(Same for Hitler btw, mass that followed him was dumb assholes)
----------
And those dumb assholes almost conquered whole world... Just three countries. Which proves that they are not dumb. They are disciplined. Yes, following their policy it is dumb. But point is if Hitler were good guy, they will do good things in world, if he was Angel, then they would fight against darkness. Dumb people cannot do that... Point is just they they are brainwashed but disciplined. No fear, mostly warm/cold proof, whatever you say they will do. Just like demons.
Do not forget that still Nazis had mostly foot soldiers (with many generals/high officers). But demons have only felguards and fel beasts as foot sildeirs, maybe also those low levelled sucubbus. Eredars are quite smart, Sucubuss are intelligent, those even have Charm, ability to mind control. Eredarars, Doomguards, Infernals, tons of Level 7+ which are in mass, not just few. So quite intelligent army.


----------
No they are the factor that caused it all, they are the hidden bad guy but in the game the real bad guys were the Undead.
----------
Controlled and created by Demons.


----------
In the second part at least (where you complain about lack of demon missions since in RoC we got enough) It's only logical to have less demons in TFT after we had many in RoC.
----------
But only as additions, not meai nrace like in Outland.
What about corrupted night elves? We do not have them at all.

----------
They are the same actually. Dumb mass, smart leaders.
----------
But as said. That depends who is considered ,,mass".
Fel Orcs are considered also somewhat dumb, and lower rank demons. But half of them are very powerful and also create mass.


----------
This is just the beginning" (Count Dooku voice) Demonlogist you are, yes you are. But Illidanologist you are not hehhe
----------
But I were study their behavior, tactics, abilities they are using, forces, combinations etc etc...
You know very well for Illidan. ILLIDARIST
But you are little biased towards him... You favorise one character, while I had harder work, I had to study whole army (and it's sub armies)
And you as illidarist should blame blizzard for killing your character like that while many are left alive


----------
Yea I guess but Sylvanas wasn't important until World of Warcraft when she truly founded her Undead army bitches. She was just a bitchy small enemy for Arthas like the Paladins he faced until then
----------
Nah, I like Dark Ranger as in game Hero, my second favorite by abilities. But I dislike her character. he and her Undeads/Forsaken.

----------
Actually demons can still kill you for no reason
----------
Exactly.. That is why they are disasters and unpredictable thus you should kill them on sight if you can, or run away if you are weaker. Not making deals or pact with them.


----------
drug dealers only sell drugs and whoever wants to buy them buys it. I mean.. there is no forcing here. (well there is in some cases actually)
----------
What is product of drug dealer? Junkie, drug addict who can kill anyone for no reason, including his own parents (which happend everywhere) if they are under crisis. So, no it is not forced but it is disaster as result. And corrosive to any country such as demonic influence.
Also, drug addict can kill you for no reason just like demons if they start hallucinating something in heads. Or simply if you are near drug dealers (if they are common on streets) you can be victim as you can be cough in cross fire, so some bullet may kill you. Where drug is, there is money plus gunfire too much.
So where demons are, lot of collateral damage. Just look at Felwood. And Lorderan, Dalaran...


----------
Perhaps they wanted to extend Arthas' story later on. He got to beat everyone by consuming the dark powers and turning evil but his time of justice will come some time too,
----------
yeah in WOW. If you ask me, his time should come much earlier...

----------
Not saying he isn't good at what he does, but lets face it, he is kind of a coward. Archimonde was like the Warrior class, ready to jump in fight unlike his bro who didn't even enter it.
----------
Is big prother coward? is judge coward as he does not face jailor directly in combat?
Is Hitler coward? is Putin, Obama or anyone such coward?
No, everyone have their roles. Mannorth also were fighting with them just because he is faced. Otherwice he would not fight. Remember that Magtheridon also commanded from distance all time until he directly had to be faced off because he did not have choice. Same with Kil jaden. When someone got powerful enough to face him, he will fight back.
His brother did fight in turn, but where would you have Kil Jaden to fight? it was not scripted yet. He could fight against demonic side, therefore player would lose, or he could fight at Illidan's side. Therefore player will win easily but Kil jaden would not fight against demons.
He could fight in Frozen Throne, thus player will beat Arthas, but remember, Arthas is meant to win. If Arthas would win while Kil Jaden is present, then Arthas must kill Kil Jaden too which is impossible and dumb...
Yo usee, they did not have place to put Kil Jaden to fight.

KEEP RAPID FIRE!


----------
So basically he is a new class that was born. Like Paladin --> Death Knight.
----------
Yes but Death knighs become from paladins... One race members ocnverted into another. Blood Mage did not came from any race but his own.
It should be told ,,I was studied/trained for blood mage by wizards so far away from my homeland, so when heard what happened, I immediatelly came back, but found only death..." or something else, but did not expalined... it is just ,,I am Kael I lead survivors, and we are calling now blood elves ourselves".. I mean what?
See what I am trying to say. You have faction... And you can have sunbaction which separates from main faction.. That is ok, since it is separated it got new style, new fashion, logos, flags, etc etc...
But here is not about separating from main faction. It is survival.. Only ,,few" survived, but they managed (instead of running and collecting members) to change name, flags, logos, appearance and clothes completely like it was just peaceful time, thus they did not know what smarter to do, how to fill their free time, but to change appearance? See where i am going so far.
They suddenly added blood elves into this without much explanations.
I would call them just ,,Blood Elf remains" during this campaign, and later, after demonic victory or such, or when they freed from human prisons, Kael should say ,,From now we will be known as Blood Elves, in remembrance of our fallen breather in Quel Thalans and here in this prison."
Same as Forsaken did. They were Undeads only until middle or late campaign (I cannot remember exactly when, but not in beggining). We saw ,,transformation" or call it how you fit, from Undeads to Forsaken. We haven;t seen anything regarding Blood Elf until they just found Kael saying ,,We are blood elves"

Sorry, this is not opinion this is fact. Blood Elves are basically same High elves except name and clothers. But same race. it is not at least Night Elves/corrupted night elves. Their skins and models are all same. Whole Blood elf thing is dumb for me. It would be better if still called High Elf at begginign of missions.


----------
No. You can basically play something like pokemon with pets or something and they are fucking ugly as shit. When I heard about it, I asked the same thing actually. "Easter egg or what?".
----------
I like Easter eggs, That Hydralisk or something, but those new seems just craps. I like thoe Halloween events which Blizzard did. black cats, Jack O lanterns, headless Horseman, and such which yo ucan collect during Halloween event.


----------
Not saying he isn't good at what he does, but lets face it, he is kind of a coward. Archimonde was like the Warrior class, ready to jump in fight unlike his bro who didn't even enter it.
----------

----------
So it would have been a 7/10 if there were no cinematics?
----------
Of course, cinematics are just bonus, and additional ,,sense and feeling" for some stuff.
But that does not mean automatically that just because it is ,,cinematic" that will bring bonus points to any game if they aren't at least decent. In Wc3 they are pretty good.


----------
Well don't fully believe me since people do say it's good. I just didn't enjoy it much.
----------
I would not also enjoy perhaps. I rarely enjoy new games.


----------
Or "well he could respawn since I already respawned him a few times". It was very needed.
----------
As with many characters, they got re-spawned many times but died finally in battle. That Sylvanas Ranger died without specific cinematic. If you skipper that she will be considered dead. If you skipper Mannorth cinematic, he would be still in game considered game even if you did not watch it. many important heroes died in battle and did not have cinematics.


----------
However, if they had said he disappeared for 5 days he could have gone to a sunny beach with a cocktail, he could have went to kill kobols, who knows?! If they haven't told us, we can only guess before we get an answer.
----------
Yes, you are right, But as yo usaid, we can ONLY guess HAT HE WAS DOING in his absence, not for how long he dissapeared or if he really dissapeared. Someone cannot say ,,they do not know it even if they writed it, he did not dissapeared he was just hidding here in caste".


----------
And here is what we did, we guessed he killed all the elves since it seemed logical as he had said so but he didn't as we later got to see
----------
Because he is written to do it, or it was plothole.


----------
Character is different than writer, he can claim anything he wants.
----------
He can't. If I write that character is poor guy who was criminal whose later got hanged for his crimes, how then he can get what he wants? How can he revive and become king? No, this is what writers wrote unless they willingly left us holes so we can keep expanding our stories.
For example, Arthas wont game. We cannot argue about that it is fact. So you will keep your own story, I will keep my own story. What we can do? We can simply expand unfinished storyline about Sylvanas, what her did, since it is unfinished with reaspons, we can expand what happened to Naga and blood elves, Fel Orcs and demons, what happened to night elves lately, Horde and Rexxar etc etc... But some stuff are finished and that is it.
So he was written to beat Elves, if he did not do that completely does not mena thet he lied, its because it is just not explained exactly what happened since plothole or mistake. I consider it mistake still.

----------
Lets just close this theme and go on to discuss (and hopefully finish) the rest that are left. I think we can also close Mannoroth cinematic theme.
----------
We can close themes, but new ones will appear so RAPID FIRE still continues
We cannot end such discussions really since it is in our nature to talk ,explore and find ,,holes" ,,bugs" ,,mistakes" ,,godd stuff" etc etc...


----------
Well they had not planned Kael'Thas yet, so how could they know they should have added some mentioning about it?
----------
That is why it is called ,,lets plan what we are to release so not make any confusion". I have to remind you that Frozen throne did not come 5 years late, it was just year or two. So they have planned pretty much stuff since they constinued storyline. You cannot end something, and begin its sequel without some logical connections. ,,
In next character we will see mobrent. Ok, who is morbent? As I said, we will reveal that in next chapter." So I at least mentioned morbent. But suddenly without any mentioning, morbent appears... Who? how? why now? Where have he been? why hasn't he mentioned before? it is not releaved or explain good so cause more confusion.
What Blizzard did there is just like Mexican series. One brother dies (because actor does not want or can't act anymore here), but his brother or sister come to replace him, those were missing brothers separated or simply for some reasons do not talk or haven't seen each other, but suddenly after one brother dies, secondary just comes to replace/avenge him because he feels some connection afterall thos years. After one murder, next comes or ,,from my friend, his friend, and of that friend , his grandmother, and father of that grandmother" and you know that styles..... in short note: ,,Artifically adding something since I do not have original ideas"
So when will Elves get don soon and how many times you need to finish them?
I like them to be alive personally, but I hate the most when you have same story after story of same characters whose supposed to be dead. ,,Myself after me" or ,,remains of remains what is supposed to be remains of something"

Back to the conversation!
KEEP RAPID FIRE!


----------
Yea but how you know what is "enough"?
----------
I do not... But when I see someone has tow missions, and someone has 10, I think it is self-explained how has more rights to request.
Same in in reality... You have people who just want more money, while you have rich bastards whose wants millions and millions since his millions are not enough.


----------
And blood elves didn't get THAT many like Undead.
----------
Not like UNdead but still they have some number of missions.
Every Frozen Throne Human mission is actually blood elf. plus those High Elf missions (you play against them) so they are present in game for some degree.


----------
But also take into account that you should not be able to play as demons as they are mindless and evil.
----------
That is not true.. Demons are actually highly intelligent since they managed to corrupt and manipulate other races and conquer dozens of world.
They are just evil. Like Hitler and others.


----------
the story is not about demons, it is far from them.
----------
The story actually is about demons. Remember that they corrupted orcs, they corrupted some nigh elves, they created Undeads, they manipulate all time.... They are present everywhere, but you cannot directly command them.


----------
Undeads as I mentioned are not all like that
----------
Undeads are actually like that. Demons created them and owe them. They do not have their own minds... Once they got free, they separate such as Forsaken did. (eother by demons or Lich king whatever)

----------
When is it going to over ? Can you assure me it will ever end? "Will this ever end?" "Let this torment eend!"
----------
I told you JUST RAPID FIREEEEEE


----------
And you did too! I actually got a lot of interesting data from this talk,
----------
hehe we both are learning from each other, and this is just beggining!
You also knew those stuff before me, I also remind you of something or expanded your knowledge. Only what you actually can learn from me is that about demon related things... I am demonologist


----------
Illidan went there to fight him, he didn't know he would lose
----------
But we knew. Since he lost game, he could not win battle that is obvious.


----------
What I said you can't ask for is to have it cinematic animated since obviously they didn't have the time (or money we don't know)
----------
Sorry this is not argument. That is their problem, not mine... They should then prepare/plan/spend their time more, not releasing poor quality animation at end of game. Even they said that it is not very well.


----------
Actually I gotta go now, will finish writing the answers later.
----------
And say when come back in Schwarzenegger's way: I am back!

----------
How so if there is only one true?
it is because holes in storline. - something unexplained isn't a hole. A hole is a contradiction with the plot. They never told us if in the Warcraft 3 universe oranges exist. Is that a plothole too? No, just something unclarified.
----------
Well you are right to some point, but still wont change fact that result of unexplained or hole is that they confuse people and in both cases people can chose their own story.


----------
He is marked as evil, but he was marked as evil by everyone except his guys...
----------
Of course.... except Naga whose is evil race, and blood elves whose are ging into darker paths, races whose are following him...
Same as criminal. Not mater if law writers calling you criminal, it is more important if I as your follower (ceiminal begginer) am not considering you like that


----------
Yea your fucking demons they only come to fuck up the Warcraft 3 universe hehhe
----------
Of course. They are worse what could happen Wc3.
But! Think of another aspect... If someone is clean, honest, fair, he would not accept offer from devil at any circumstances. But if someone is badm dirty and corrupted he will accept. So whose is guilty, corrupted man or demon?
If I am clear, I can walk near market in drug, everyone whose are junkies can surround me, but I d onot care about drugs, I wont buy or use them. Those whose are using them are dooing this with free will. So whose is guilty that, drug dealer or those whose used with their own will?
Sure, it you do not have dealers, you wont have option to chose drugs. If you do not have demons, you would not have option to accept offer. But point is that any race has their own corrupted members, power hunger or such, so with demonic arrival, they all revealed themselves. Undeads from humans/high elves. Corrupted Elves from Night Elves, Fel Orcs from Orcs etc etc... No race is unite. Umlike demons. They are always united to destroy some world or exterminate some race hahaha


----------
You were to either choose "a character with potential" or "an evil ass betrayer".
----------
Well they were using too much of Arthas, even I liked him I dislike abused or overusing him.. Illidan is used also much more than others, but it is stupid that Arthas beat everything and everyone and won the game... I think no winner should be. Everything should be player from each race's view.


----------
I like them too just not the most since I think Naga look cooler but I also hate nagas since they are assholes, Highborne.
----------
Ah Naga... nagas are special case... They are really bad... While Highborne, yet now as serpents

----------
So it's a 9/10 as I see it now. Now let me convince you to make it a 10/10. If you give Warcraft 3 a 9/10 what game would you give a 10/10?
----------
Heh. Cannot remember all, but as said already, in patch they could fix some things, add more maps as they did.... Perhaps some new creeps or units in missions sharing those new Heroes abilities (Firelord, Goblins), as currently it is stupid to have only those heroes as neutral completely unused anywhere else (their abilities such as transmute, soul burn, lava spawn, Incernate, healing waves are not used in any units, which those could be used by many). Some bonus maps could work, plus adding stuff in Outland. And definitively to change that Illidan vs Arthas fight with some realistic cinematic... Explaining how are so many blood elves... That would be all so far.


----------
Also, I wanted to mention that - if they had not made any cinematics at all, wouldn't they get 9/10 immediately since you won't have any cinematics to judge at all?
----------
No. Cinematic are just for bonus rate. hey help in ratings obviosly.
New games mostly are awesome cinematics and outstanding graphics but that is all about in most cases.


----------
So if WC3 rocks why is it not max points? Same way you could give it a 7/10 because a possible 10/10 game could still come out.
----------
There are several types of ,,it rocks"


----------
Or 6/10 and say that SC2 is a...
----------
I do not care about SC2, did not play it so I believe you what you say regarding it


----------
Is it not the best RPG-RTS ever made? If it is, then put a 10 there please
----------
it shares same place for me with Red Alert2/Yuris Revenger and Generals


----------
You could still say "well yea but it could have been longer, why didn't they add 10 more seconds".
----------
Sure, by nature people are not satisfied, therefore I am not too, but I am realist... There is difference between 20 seconds and 10 more since it is 50% more, and difference between 5 minutes and 10 seconds since it does not matter much.


----------
Also, very well you are right you are right.
----------
No, here you may be right. I admit that. But still, not good made cinematic, that is what I tried to say. Personally that is most uneeded cinematic in game resulting Illidan to die.


----------
Arthas didn't really lie he just claims he will do something and he does it but he overexaggerates his deeds due to egoism and so on. He claims he will destroy every single high elf but he obviously didn't. So he still did what he said, destroy the kingdom but not every elf.
----------
We are still rotating over same story over and over again.
Arthas obviosly did not kill every elf since writers did not explain that. If they wrote that Arthas weared sun glasses and went into Maldivi on beach drinking coctail, this would happen. This is what I try to explain. Whatever they write, it happens. here confusion happened because they did not explain some stuff.


----------
New characters, new classes, why not add them?
----------
That is true, but write story about that, expand them... For example, some Human sided Hero (Arthas/Uther/Jaina whoever) could at least once mention that he went with Bllod Mage, or he knew Kael fro msomewhere or they were studied magic at Dalaran, so hey, when you play expansion you would say ,,Hey I remember this Blood Mage/Kael from somewhere. he was mentioned)
Lich king was mentioned many times in ROC so no surprise he appeared in Frozen throne.


----------
They fit perfectly into the world,
----------
Yes, but some just does not fit into world that we feel that thye were highly needed. Maeiev is Warden class hero, so yeah, Ilidan got free from prison, turned into half demon, so she is hunting him down as his jailor... o she fits story.
But Kael as blood mage is not needed storywise much. it could be Paladin, Archmage or any other hero instead, we would not make difference, he does not bring something that we feel that is needed about him. High Elf Ranger, now Blood Ranger for example (copy if Sylvanas) would be storyline better to lead survivors as rangers fought undead in past.

----------
(They actually did add pokemon in Cataclysm WoW. Imagine how fail that is).
----------
Oh God, I am glad I haven't seen it.
Easter egg or what?


----------
I wouldn't say plothole, just KJ being an ass who doesn't want to burn his own ass like his bro Chimonde did and won't risk it. He was always a trickster and a coward.
----------
Exactly, I agree that it is most likely plot hole. And he is trickster but he is not coward.. There is no coward in tactics... Remember when Sylvanas said to Arthas ,,You think that I am hiding from you? You obviously had not fought Elves before" its just that everyone use different tactics... Kil Jaden's tactic is manupulative, so trickster. But it does not change fact that he is powerful demon, after Archimonde most powerful boss there. We have discussion thread here who is stronger between Kil jaden or Archimonde.

----------
So you mean to tell me they were small local thief back then? I wouldn't even put them in the thief category is what I'm trying to say...
----------
No sorry, my bad, I gave wrong example which sounded bad... I just meant that in thievery there are several levels...
So here in moneygrabbling as you are saying all time that word. They were begginers back then and now they are professionals that is what I tried to say. Same as small theieves, they started stealing watches and small money from bus, trains tc etc.. and now they are specialist to beak at homes, soon at banks...


----------
I do not accept your ratings regarding cinematics, but I do see your point and see why they are correct from your point of view. As I said you judge a product only by it's technical side, I add in the human factor which helps to explain to myself why something failed.
----------
Yeah. Thank you man.. You helped me to understand many stuff here better. For example that with cinematics back then. And you helping me lot of things to understand...
But regarding demons in Outland, I am still right that there shoud be more missions and that they are meant to lose in black citadel and gates of abyss since there is no way them to be defeated in that way. I am 100% sure about that.


----------
Also, I wouldn't say they made a roofless cinematic, it just has tiny mistakes like, say, the walls are yellow at some parts. Doesn't mean it can't be great.. it is still not failed for me. While you think of it as a failed house I think of this cinematic as a success.
----------
I did not say that. personally I did not notice walls and thanks to reminding me.. I still do not count that. Actually I like all cinematics except I said that this with mannorth could be better. And cinematic with Arthas vs Illidan I did not want to explain at all, first for not being video cinematic, and this Arthas pushing thing...


----------
They were on their way. You know, if they had not tried, we would not have Warcraft 3. Imagine that. So, do you think they should have tried?
----------
Of course... Just because they were professionals I wish them to be even better. Am I bad person for wishing someone to be even better? That is in his advantage.
Let be honest about one thing... If I were creating game and had double more resources than they, I would not still create awesome game than they did. it would be less good perhaps... But I would not make some mistakes as they did, starting from campaign that I would try all races to be equally present, not one race to have 10 missions and secondary just 2.


----------
Get what I'm saying? There always are such little mistakes, it is the human factor I was talking about. I think they could have expanded on Sylvanas more rather than make her a simple bitch but.. doesn't mean it's a mistake. Just a choice different than mine
----------
Yes, but I am not complaining on choices, I am complaining that they put just severap missions for characters while you have some such Arthas with tons of missions to beat alongside with whole game... If they intended to do this in that way which I personally think they intended, then it is not so shiny for them. You can piss of many people with that way.... What about human fans with their heroes being all dead? What about high elf? What about you, or Illidan fans? See where I am going, those all were slaughtered by Arthas.... So favorising one character while letting down others is not such great idea.
Archimonde did not kill heroes... They all escaped, Janina, Thall and such. But Arthas managed to kill many of them.


----------
A good reason we didn't get to see more is for example the fact that they just didn't have time to finish one, with Arthas vs Illidan. So you just have no right to ask for more when the best possible was already done.
----------
I have right to ask since Arthas vs Illidan was completely uneeded cinematic... Arthas won with obelisk, he just could go there and combine with lich king. There is no need Illidan to stand in front of him since he already lost (thus could get back alive to Outland), to be dead.. Because we knew that Arthas will be winner. (Arthas won mission but got killed in fight after it? Come on, seriosly) and even that cinematic is not well done.

----------
Well yea but you still ask for more and say "what could have been done", well it couldn't have
----------
It could have done, that is my opinion and I will keep saying that


----------
What do you mean you don't like the Warcraft universe (I repeat, Warcraft, not WoW)?
----------
No sorry, maybe you understood me wrong, maybe I said wrongly accidentally or sounded wrongly.
I meant I dislike Warcraft universe in WOW. WOW storyline is something not so shine for me... Too many new unneeded stuff. Complex stories, new characters everywhere... Time travel... All those bosses look now more evil etc etc...


----------
Having more for the demons would be something they could add for you since you're a demon lover. But if I wanted more Illidan missions what then huh?
----------
But you are not right and not fair then, and people would usually ignore you since Illidan is secondary character in Frozen Throne. He has tons of missions. (with him or against him), plus mission in ROC.
Demons in Outland for example have two missions only. yes, you have burning legion in many maps in ROC, but Undead related, demons are only additions there (Doomguard,Infernal,Fel beast are common and pitlord/dreadlord/Archimonde sometimesappear as heroes), but not solo as race.


----------
And if someone else wanted more Rexxar missions?
----------
And is arguable because he appears in every bonus maps and submaps, but I would still use him in maps. Classical ones.


----------
And someone Malfurion?
----------
You can play as Malfurion in at least 5 missions. Yeah he could be in more missions, but still more than outland demons.


----------
Someone Night Elves?
----------
This is unrealistic request. We have enough of Undeads, Nigh Elves, Humans, Blood Elves, Arthas, Illidan etc etc... But corrupted Night Elves and Demons are just in two missions, and yet again you can only play against them, not with them, so sorry, that is not valid argument... What i want is not luxury it is something which is missed. How can you have something with 7, and something with 2 to be balanced? it can... That with just 2 is degraded. So I just wanted at least 2 more mission, to be even close to other races... Is that too much?


----------
I was giving the artist working on a painting as an example of how a worker needs to get pay for what he does. And if he does it faster he would lose some quality in the painting but he would be able to earn what he wants to.
----------
That depends of artist/worker, how professional he is and how fast with higher quality possible he can work... So better people, faster jobs... More cost money of course. Who is better ask for better payment, but often you get better work...


----------
add those extra perfections you want. Ok, so far so bad but what would they get from adding those perfections? Nothing. Cuz, people would not notice them anyways.
----------
As far I am concerned patches exist for that reason.. That is how they made bonus maps in next patches updated... So its not just for gameplay fix, it can update even models, icons, skins, maps, whatever they wish....
And with each patch released you get document to see what has been changed so far. So players would know what is new.


----------
Actually I think I'm starting to lose the ability in writing too
----------
Noooooooooo! Just keep writing my friend! Do not give up
Do not stop until it is over Rapid fire! if you cannot write, just keep writing, less essays, but keep pushing!


----------
But not all new games are like that Haosis.. although I generally agree.
----------
Yeah, from new games I heard that GTA V rocks! But that game requires extra computer and high disk space. Everything is highly detailed and lot of storylines, three characters with crowwline of their storylines, bigger city, lot of cars, people etc etc...

----------
Hitler was a similar tyrant. He claimed he will take over the world.. .did he?
----------
But he tended to do that, he also did not stop. HE WAS STOPPED! Arthas was not stopped by any forces. Hitler was stopped by Alliance, Archimonde was stopped in similar manner, but how Arthas got stopped?

I consider this hole.


----------
It was Arthas' mistake.
----------
Archas cannot mistake because he is not even fictional character. He is storyline's character whose depend of writer. he does not have free will.


----------
I wonder why KJ just didn't invade the throne himself, he's just an ass.
----------
yes, I consider writers again.
But Kil Jaden is not powerful in earth there as he needs to be summoned perhaps, so other should do his job. But in Outland he had greater power... he appeared much bigger.Kil Jaden is demon. and demons are cheater to other races.Same as Archimonde ignored Lich and Arthas after he has risen.


----------
So why pick 1 Haosis ? Just why? All of these can be correct, since both are (aren't) backed up by equal evidence.
----------
Exactly.. We both can be right and wrong. How so if there is only one true?
it is because holes in storline.


----------
So why view it by the worst way possible (1)? Why Haosis, JUST WHY ? All the other options are better and more enjoyable! (I choose 4)
----------
Because you replied already:

----------
since Illidan died shortly afterwards
----------
You answered yourself to prove my point here
With Illidan's death, Outland is lost anyway as it would be soon or later.


----------
So KJ probably intended to do something similar to Illidan. And I (obviously) hoped that Illidan will somehow break out of the corrupting demons and live freely and happily at last and somehow redeem himself.
----------
That is what I call spirit! And storyline! I want this too. Illidan could somehow break from them, actually to scape in Broken Isles.
Haha in World Edit he is also marked As Evil. When you select it, it says Illidan (Evil).


----------
Would have made for an epic story of redemption and it would have been a worthy challenge for a great hero. Unfortunately, what I got to see was Illidan die before Arthas but it was still a good story, a tragic one actually.
----------
That part was just decent, yeah. Cooul be much beter. Arthas Arthas and Arthas...


----------
A good guy banished by everyone died in the hands of a potentially good guy who turned out to be an ass.
----------
Awesome! And all did is made by demons haha


----------
There was just so much potential in this character for me, so much more to explore and progress.
----------
Yah I agree with that.


----------
They decided to go for an even more tragic story and THEN even a MORE tragic story by getting him killed.
----------
I also agree on that too.
Now yo usee why I like demons the most. only they are not fighting against themselves. They blindly obey masters... But others, everyone was fighting themselves.

----------
Yea you do, you said that the Mannoroth cinematic wasn't that good
----------
I said that it is not amazing. Not amazing does not mean bad. You have other ratings aside from pure black-white
I assume decent, good, very good, excellent, outstanding etc etc... not just amazing or bad.


----------
Why do we keep agreeing with each other yet still argue ?
----------
Hey man.... what a coincidence! I was also to ask you same
Someone said that he tries to push mazimun of arguments.. That must be ghost from my dreams hahaahaha


----------
If say a character says Oranges are blue does that mean the writers though oranges are blue?
----------
Yes but writers cannot let character says that because it will confuse everyone. They need carefully to pay attention on what they are writing.


----------
If Archimonde claims he is unbeatable, does that mean he is unbeatable (not that he did but a believable example I am making up here)
----------
It means that nobody beat him yet... And indeed, during gameplay or cinematics he is shown very powerful and unbeatable... he is the one who passed though 3 races and climbed at world tree. And yes. he funally got died because of super unique spell. And also upon his death he destroyed whole parts around tree. Demon bosses have their last laugh haha.


----------
So, what's the problem with Arthas acting like a bad ass guy saying "oh we gonna slay you all fuckers now cuz you didn't do our bidding". Doesn't mean he will or that he did.
----------
it means, as reader and player I am considering this because he did not lie. Whatever he intended to do he did. he destroyed his whole kingdom, killed father, did whatever it took. So I do not see why would he lied to Elves... Remember what he is doing when got angered. he made Banshee out of SYlvanas just for annoying him. Those elves also annoyed him, thats why he yelled at them. I do not have problem if he said that will do something and idd not. I have problem when he said that, then cinmatic showed that, and it turned out not to be that... So in shorter note: he says he will destroy them, cinematics showing that Undeads are destroying them after that. And turns out that great numbers have survived.
So yes, BlooedElves could not be race according to that. Some mayescape and survive but not that many.


----------
Yea but how vast were those "various places"? Whole High elven land? We cannot really know.
----------
it is explained that Silvermoon is their place... In those forests and missions. That Area. As Lorderan was home to humans. it got destroyed, and latter with Rexxar's patch it is explained that Prodermone Isles are also great enchantments of humans... But nothing is explained in Frozen Thone about elves.


----------
He said he was gonna slay them all but Kael'Thas obviously survived. And a bunch of other elves.
----------
That is what I am trying to explain you whole time... new characters suddenly appearing out of nowhere... Kael was not even mentioned to exist in Reign of chaos... Tha tWarden Maeiev did not even meant to exist as well. Butthey needed expansion, thats why they made blood elves and Kael. But obviosly mistake in hole because they could mention somewhere ,,I am Kael were doing this, working o nthis etc etc..." Warden Maeiev could be mentioned too... They were sleeping during Legions invasion which assumes that they were artifically created after reign of chaos.
You see, of there was Paladin, so okay, paladins existed before.. But it s was blood mage, wardens... Types of Heroes which did not exist in ROC with completely new sets of abilities... For new gameplay. So they just artifically put them into storyline. So blood elves as new sub race could during war, instead of fighting for survival, they managed to have new clothes, new marks etc etc... ? That is not logical. When draenor exploded it took ages unt l Matheridon rebuilds Orc into Fel Orcs and collect everything. Blood elves completely new brand turned out of High Elves in matter of days.


----------
Archimonde probably though he will destroy the tree, doesn't mean he did.
----------
No, you mixed two different things here. COmepletely two different things.
Archimonde said that he will destroy tree. He climbed there in order to destroy, but he is STOPPED. Falfurion made trap for him. But Archimonde was going to do what he planned, he did not lied, he did notabandon his quest or what he claimed to do. Death stopped him.
Arthas said that he will eradicated elves. Who stopped him? How large number survived? Where they were hiding? Daralan is place for human and high elf wizards and mages... Arthas, and later Archimonde destroyed all.So I do not know where such great army could hide.

----------
You said earlier Warcraft 3 was money grabbing, it was, but not only. Every product tries to sell, your skill deserves payment. But it also tried to be a great game, had soul put into it so do not point out to me their money grabbing, because it wasn't
----------
I agree on that, I did not mean that they were money greed as today. Today, they outfucked everyone. You have many levels of criminals, from small local thief to killer. Same goes for greed.


----------
I say no! You say yes. I guess those are our.. differences here
----------
yes, but you cannot stand my opinion, you behave like everything what is not by your opinion 5/5, you could it as 1/5 even I said 4/5. So only your rating exists here 5/5 and that is it.
When I say something is excellent, and you say that it is very good (one level beyond) I am still satisfied with that that you rated it good. But when you claim that it is amazing and i claim that it is less than amazing, you are trying and trying to convince me to judge at your level and your tase. You do not seem to accept my ratings regarding cinematic.


----------
"A failed attempt after an already failed attempt. " this is what I was talking about basically, I agree here.
----------
basically we are agreeing to each other all time, its just that we are losing concentration haha.


----------
ut what I do not agree about is when you said that you should not attempt something which will probably fail.
----------
No, sorry I did not meant that. Maybe it looked like that.
I meant either I will do something how it is supposed to be, to be good, when I finsally decide to do something, rather than I start do something with lsing inspiration, concentration or even stop working on something, then finishing it later etc etc...
If you are building house, you will build it when collect money. You cannot start building with half money, and stopping there. Or almost finishing house (without roof), then caming to leave there hoping to be always good weather, not to rain once to wet you. That is what I meant... Start to something and go to the end (when you are very well prepared).


----------
Because, there always must be a first time. Attempt it. Even the second attempt ACTUALLY will be a failure but not in the aspects already failed as we see now.
----------
Of course. That is method of BASIC learning. But I am talking here about professional things. I cannot go to do something professional if I did not preppared for that.
Can I go to compete with professioanl map makers in contests even if I am too lower than them? I know basic triggers, they know professionally. No I can't. I need to pass though my level first.


----------
Less flaws you say. Well, Warcraft 3 had "less flaws" right? It managed to do what you asked from it. It had little mistakes, many perhaps.
----------
Exactly. Idid not said epic failure I said some flaws... I can even count them on fingers which means that there are not too many.
That stuff about blood elves (remains who turned out to be big army, whose instead taking back their homes, they just go into foreign rank, abandoning their clear way of life, accepting darker) which seemed to be just thrown out of ideas, Outland missions which could be littme more (at least one where you control fel orcs and demons), and not too many Arthas. If possible, one mission when you play with corrupted night elves. That is all what I could think of now... So not many, not big fail, but could be better. All what I tried to say


----------
I would still give him a 10!
----------
I give 8/10. I would give 9/10 if they would fix those small issues, and I would give 10/10 if they made more cinematics, since overally they were good. In Frozen Throne we have only two. That map-made Illidan vs Arthas could be video, they said that they regret about that.


----------
Nowadays there still isn't! (An RPG-RTS like Warcraft 3 which is better. There is Starcraft II but it is worse)
----------
Those games would not get from me even 4/10. Maybe some at maximum 5/10 so WC3 rocks there.


----------
what I am questioning is your rating on the product (lets talk of Mannoroth cinematic as the product here) - why do you give it less points just because it has these few mistakes?
----------
I explained in previous quotes that. Its not Mannorth cinematic only.
its general thing that due to lack of money (read-they had money but did not want to put more) they sacrificed some things... If something requires lot of money additionally, screw it. But if it requires smaller amounts, then get it, so better responses and ratings you get in turn. Speaking directly of Mannorth cinematic. It could be better in at least 10 seconds or more.That would not cost thousands. Or millions
But Blizzard wanted it as simple is possible (simple-cheaper).We both can see that. But still as said, it is nicely done, otherwiuce we would not talk about it even today hahaah
You said no more talking about this,but you cannot resist my charm hahaha

Nah, you couldwrite here. You are not spamming profile, you are friend!


----------
Tis why I say you are a nitpicker, deeming it unfinished.
----------
Tna it is not amazing as I do not like short cinematics one-hit-one-death.
Effects are very well done but fight is not. My opinion.


----------
That's what I meant Haosis, just don't ask for more from THIS product, ask for more from the Franchise and you might get more but they can't add more content. They cannot simply add 2 more minutes fighting in the Mannoroth cinematic
----------
I am not asking this to be changed now since it cannot be done as cinematic is done in past of course. I just say what they needed to do back then not now.
I wont ask anything from franchisee since I do not like it too much. But time travel eh, Iron Horde there, everything is possible now.
You know what they tried to do with time travel? To make every hero alive again and reboot war craft, to make more money.


----------
The enjoyment level of the public would have been less but what they did was like the perfect middleground
----------
But you said at least 5-6 times for now that enjoyment would be less. Says who? You only? That is private opinion, does not mean that it will be like that just because you claim so. Again, I can find you several people who would claim that mode Outland missions would not be boring, but fun instead. That is mater of taste.


----------
they just lost a lot of time and resources
----------
How do you know that 2 more missions would waste so much time and resources? I think Blizzard would bankrupt it they added it. So maybe you are right.


----------
So an artist can spend a year on one painting and make it awesome but he needs to get food, get payed, he needs to make it faster, with a bit crappier quality and less investment.
----------
That artist knows that and he works on it because he likes it otherwice he would not be artist. If it is not worth, he would not work for Blizzard. They pay well. Those are excuses which are not passing towards me and many people.
Also do not forget that it is not about artists only... I talekd about few Outland maps. Scripters are for them and terrainers, not model artists.
WOW it perfect example of what I am talking about. They have better models, better cinematics, yet they sucks comparing to WC3. Not everything is about look, but about functionality as well.


----------
There are artists who can make amazing arts in 8 hours so same goes for games.
----------
Exactly. More professional artists, faster job, but cost more.


----------
And Warcraft fulfilled it's end. Delivered a product worthy of whatever it costed back then.
----------
Yes it is worth. Still is worth, but just back then.
But does not change what I said what could be improved.


----------
Jurrassic World for example is an example of something that didn't. It doesn't cost what it offers.
----------
When I see it I will for sure write you about my though.


----------
So the next product will be better
----------
No, that is not true... WOW is worse than Wc3, many game sequels are worse than previous. I wont even to talk about mosives how 90% of second parts are craps compared to first ones.


----------
They decided to go down the road of evil greed though.
----------
Exactly. Greedisgood cheat said... Now it destroyed them hahahah


----------
I did not mean to say you are ... oh but I did. Sorry Haosis, my bad
----------
No problem man. I know you did not mean this. I just did not understand different meaning than word hate actually means... I do not know other meaning
No problem I noticed why our misunderstanding comes.. We write lot of texts which took hours. That messing with our minds, we lost concentration when reading.... its good that we are still capable of writing!


----------
Movies is different than cinematics. Cinematics in games. We're talking about the game industry here, not the movie one.
----------
No, I am talking about technology used to make it.. CInematic is video format such as movie. I am not talking about which storyline it had, but technology it is used back then... TV spots, marketing prograganda videos, music spots, game videos etc etc... everything all belongs to same type, they differ on story, type, age which is meant to watch it etc etc.. but it uses similar technology to be made... If they could make Movie of 2 hours, which half of it was CGI, why would not blizzard make few minutes cinematics? That was my point

----------
game industry still wasn't that big
----------
it was far better than now. People are still play old game and mod it. I cannot remember much about new games, those are ,,seasonal". Play it for summer and forget it later.

Man I like you! That was awesome!
As Draenei said ,,I need it, once again"