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Last Activity:
Nov 12, 2019 at 12:40 PM
Mar 27, 2012


Code and Design, from Estonia

Xonok was last seen:
Nov 12, 2019 at 12:40 PM
    1. MasterHaosis
      Xonok, :cgrin:
    2. SAUS
      That is what I meant lol.

      I also find LoL items to be rather bland. It is something that I have always preferred about Dota. The items are crazy and they're not easy to use. It is awesome to see someone get a funky item like force staff or ghost scepter and use it well.
    3. SAUS
      Agreed. One thing I think is also very important is to have very versatile items to choose from. It is nice if you can buy certain items to overcome certain hero matchups. Having a strong set of items also makes the game more balanced since all heroes have access to them.

      It also encourages diverse item selection from game to game. There is no 'build' for a character.

      I like your ability because it is super simple and yet still does a lot for the game.
    4. SAUS
      Hmm maybe it depends on which way you are looking at it from haha. I think what you describe is exactly what I am describing.

      Your example hero wants to be close to lots of enemies. This means that enemies will want to disperse from them if they are coming close. Maybe this hero can't make it into a group of 5 enemies without dying. This might affect their item choices (items have affects on positioning as well) - perhaps they want to be fast or maybe just more beefy. Another option is support abilities - this might be healing or a shield of some sort. Either way, those abilities allow someone to stand where they normally couldn't. Maybe that hero shouldn't be able to approach 5 heroes at all. This would have another affect on positioning. Maybe it is better for the enemies to stick close to kill this hero. That leaves them vulnerable to other effects that can punish that positioning.

      Maybe it is like combat conditions affect positioning "rules", but sometimes games have really boring combat conditions (ie: the positioning "rules" that come forth are not very interesting).
    5. edo494
      you asked about the enums, they arent just syntactic sugar, they introduce new types too, and you can only pass variables from oen enum into function, if that function expects given enum type as argument, whereas you can pass in any integer
    6. MasterHaosis
      Yes but at least we will have option to block avatars/signatures...maybe
    7. MasterHaosis
      Ah you gave me rep for that. Thanks, since you are agreeing with that, please vote for option 3, or 2 if you wish, but avoid 1.
      I personally voted for 3, to allow those images but only if there are option to block it.
    8. APproject
    9. APproject
      I think he fully understands and agrees, he just won't give up being so philosophical and questioning every statement's validity if it matters to the universe. I also think he confuses cultural influence with inborn traits, as if it all are equally subjective.
    10. StoPCampinGn00b
      Hey Xonok, I moved your thread about melee / ladder game balance to Warcraft Townhall as it isn't in the boundary of the "The Lab" guidelines and it most definitely fits in Warcraft Townhall.
    11. edo494
    12. VeljkoM
      Well that sure is handy, never used google docs before. Wish I knew about those before. Real interesting additions with those unit examples, didn't till now thought about there being an actual design process behind creep units but there it is.
    13. VeljkoM
      Well guess all that can be done is first by making categories and sub categories. Like as you started with "Units" then divide them in to "Creeps" and "Race" units etc. I would go with race units myself as they are more important. Then go on Buildings, Upgrades, Abilities and Heroes. Can't really offer a real solution.

      Anyway I can at least offer my old work. And yes grammar is so bad it kills people.
    14. VeljkoM
      Fair enough, fair enough good sir. I am only formal in PMs anyway. Think I can sum up my misunderstanding by saying "I was not thinking of creeps enough". Mostly because you said the document was to help make races in which case you don't really need to observe rules for creeps as they are different.

      *I would kinda argue that race units are the core and not creep units. They live in separate systems.
      *Ah DPS for creep units, I was thinking of faction units.
      *Huh odd for Furbolgs. I expected actually more that to be case for Turtles and Makrura (I was sure their level 1 examples get better armor than other creeps).
      *True neutrals only have well weaker and stronger units.
      *Regarding ability terminology look in the Silence or Cloud ability. You will see that game does make difference between spells and abilities. That is why Dragons can be webbed even though they are immune to magic. It does get confusing because at same times abilities are all.
      *Oh not literal HP cost. You mean creeps with spells get reduced health to balance things up. (And Demon Hunter laughs)
      *Well for neutral units yeah speed is not the factor when they stand still. But for player units story is different.

      Yes then I agree ranged units typically do get lower health. I suppose you could call their advantage an ability. I thought you meant ability as a game mechanic.

      Principle sure, but not facts. That would imply no derivations from rules.
    15. Shar Dundred
      Shar Dundred
      Has your chat/Hive crashed as well?
    16. VeljkoM
      Ok looked at the list you linked in the thread (why did you use word informal anyway? did you mean "informative"?) and have chosen to respond here. I do have some comments about it.

      - About Units with more health have no abilities. Not true with Mountain Giant and Druid of the Claw, they have abilities and they aren't low on health. Most tier 3 Air and Melee units get passives (they are abilities too) but it isn't a rule.
      - Repair is true.
      - I would say "based on caster upgrades". True.
      - Same as before, mana reg is based on caster upgrades. True
      - By most melee units having 1.35 attack speed you only mean Footmen (Ghouls are 1.30 and get upgrade to get it even lower). Melee units do seem to be faster than ranged units but orcs still are way slower than everyone else (Grunt 1.6, Rider 1.85, Tauren 1.9). Attack speed is very complicated thing.
      - I guess die value thing is true. I didn't ever look in to it myself.
      - I don't understand the meaning of "Average DPS of unit is level 5". If you mean that melee units are all under level 5 it is so they wouldn't receive the spell reduction benefits.
      - Furbolg thing seems random. I guess it is natural that higher level furbolg creeps get better armor?
      - Yes casters and support units don't get high damage. It isn't their job to DPS that is why you get all other units.
      - Highest damage is actually definitely on Tier 3 flyers and not on melee units (both have passives). Even if we include creeps Dragons are some of the strongest units. As for tanking M.Giant definitely has abilities, Siege Engine has passive ability.
      - There are no abilities that cost 50-100 max health. No really show me an example of ability that uses hp and not mana. And Evasion does not work against spells.
      - Abilities don't use mana (Ensnare, Flare, Web), Spells use mana. Abilities ignore magic immunity. Abilities and spells do get mixed up always.
      - The rule about manafree abilities not changing power of the unit sounds like a paradox. Why would they exist if they are useless? Frenzy definitely for example increase dps of the unit.
      - Actually movement speed does matter. But AI cheats when retreats so not even fastest units can reach them when they should. Also people usually move all units at same time so they move at similar speed then.

      Your research only reveals why anti-casters were added and magic attack to casters. Casters also lost attack upgrades from RoC. Still no explanation for all other armor/attack changes. Would be nice to provide the source of the info

      Don't have anything to say about "rumors" except that I highly doubt range attack being ability (you won't block it by setting silence to disable abilities).

      Also be sure to test things on latest patch if you are doing it through World Editor. By default maps use 1.07 patch for some reason (spellbreakers have heavy armor for example). Oh and don't conclude that patterns are facts as there are exceptions to rules quite often.
    17. MasterHaosis
      Xonok, :cgrin:
    18. Zwiebelchen
      Why not just ask the author?
    19. Zwiebelchen
      A possible solution to this would be to just instantly reset the cooldowns when casting a spell, then manually trigger it when the spell finishes.
    20. [E]clipse
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