Good! Would be great to see HD Graphics Screenshots too

Ićpomp said:

Good! Would be great to see HD Graphics Screenshots too

Click to expand...

added.

So.... sorry about the long delay in reviewing.

In general, I agree with what you wrote on Witch's Swamp about this map here being an improved version.
The creepscompositions and itemdrops all are good; the double powerup drop at a green camp is fun for me, but some players might feel they should have gotten a "real" item instead. The highground "bump" neat the expansion is also a fun idea. The layout once again is interesting and it's really nice that it can be both east-vs-west and north-vs-south, with each permutaion being slightly different. In fact accounting for spawning near merc or near lab, there should be a lot of replay value. Unfortunately, in the long run some players will probably see certain spawn combinations as superior to others (humans for example might like spawning near the merc in north-vs-south more than spawning near the the lab in east-vs-west).

Visually, the map mostly looks great with a lot of attention to detail, in some locations the mix of different tileset is a bit over the top for me, but it's a matter of personal taste, so feel free to ignore this comment

Nevertheless, some of the problems from Whichs Swamp still exist, especially:
1. Too many canopy trees. Consider at least downsizing them.
2. No real AoW-creeping options, or at least blue/teal have better options than red/purple.
In addtion:
3. The central orange camps are very likely to attack player units by accident. The same applies to a lesser extent to the expansions. Maybe you can set all but one creep to camp stance at the expos. I dont see an easy solution to the troll/wolves camp unfortunately, and their inclusion makes too much sense to not leave them somewhere near where the are now.

So overall, the aggro problems are both numerous and annoying, and should be fixed in case you have higher goals with the map. But on the other hand, there is enough to like about the map to outweigh this issue. Therefore map approved.

Changes:

1. Creeps on expand locations no longer attack passing units.
2. Creeps on central orange camps no longer attack passing units.
3. Since the elves are very nervous when there is nowhere to build the Ancient of War, islands have been added near the green camps at both exits from the base for the construction of AoW.
4. Non-trivial fact revealed: Level 1 Stormreaver Apprentice has much higher damage than Level 1 Fallen Priest. 17 - 20 vs 7 - 10. So these creeps cannot interchange each other in mirror camps. Therefore, all Stormreaver Apprentices have been replaced with Fallen Priests.
5. some canopy trees have been removed (heartache)

It's really sad that canopy trees got removed (even some)

This has a very interesting game-flow, those funny idea of ramp on expo is kinda interest me. A lot of detail as well good job! This is my opinion about thing that I don't like: a short range from 9 to 9 camp which I guess that it was later add? A higher ramp behind expo wisp could use these trees as somekind of hidden similar to square tool tree problem. It would be really annoying to check these tree one by one on high ground. The only AoW choice would be that very close 9 to 9 or the middle expo. A small tree gap behind corner of lv9 to 9 camp. Could be wisp hide'n seek playground against BM. Left-Right red camp which is very strong imo for a p5 item. I mean life drain + x2Sleep +x2Crit? Lab camp is very strong as well. Round the table spawn could cause a balance problem. But those are up to people taste so you should ignore that part. This map somehow remind me of Shatter Exile that is less boring (I'm sorry Mafe ) with some little tweak this would be a really interesting choice.

Zucth said:

This has a very interesting game-flow, those funny idea of ramp on expo is kinda interest me. A lot of detail as well good job! This is my opinion about thing that I don't like: a short range from 9 to 9 camp which I guess that it was later add? A higher ramp behind expo wisp could use these trees as somekind of hidden similar to square tool tree problem. It would be really annoying to check these tree one by one on high ground. The only AoW choice would be that very close 9 to 9 or the middle expo. A small tree gap behind corner of lv9 to 9 camp. Could be wisp hide'n seek playground against BM. Left-Right red camp which is very strong imo for a p5 item. I mean life drain + x2Sleep +x2Crit? Lab camp is very strong as well. Round the table spawn could cause a balance problem. But those are up to people taste so you should ignore that part. This map somehow remind me of Shatter Exile that is less boring (I'm sorry Mafe ) with some little tweak this would be a really interesting choice.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback.
I myself have a lot of complaints about my map. Although many of the "flaws" of this map were found on other maps and everything suited everyone, sometimes it seems to me that the map is a complete failure in terms of balance)
But I think it doesn't make sense to try to fix something else on the map until at least some games are played on it.

Hi nees. Very cool map! Really like the work you did. Here are a few suggestions. I believe they can make your map better for the contest.

(0) Restrict players to have cross-spawn positions. For 1vs 1 game, otherwise scouting will take so much time to do.

(1) Reduce the size from 116x109 to 108x108. Remove the extra area you don't need. Smaller size map are better perceived by players. For this you can move the goblin shops and red camps slightly towards the center of the map. Try it. The minimap gets more detailed. Map will feel more compact and more dynamic to play.

(2) Merc camp, lab and the 6-4-4 camp in front of it. It is fine as it is right now, but you can also consider instead of having 3 camps, have 2 camps. Move the lab/merc to the location of the 6-4-4 camp and have the merc/lab behind it. Make a path behind the 6-4-4 camp location. But this way, the map will look a bit more symmetrical with the similiar goblin shop/red camp passages, more intuitive.

(3) I don't think you need four 3-3-3 creep camps (deceiver + 2 revenants stand). Too many creeps are in those areas. I like the combination of units, but I don't think you need a camp over there. You have nicely placed other two greens in front of each base. Plus you have easy four level 10 camps in the middle of the map to contest. This is more than enough "green" spots on the map (right now, you have 16 "green" spots). But you can use the 3-3-3 deceiver/revenant composition if want to reshuffle some creeps
(see next suggestions).

(4) If you place vertically lab and merc camp as suggested above, you may consider adding marketplaces at the red camps.
It is convenient to sell a level 5 item right away, if you didn't get what you need.

(5) The 5-1-1-1 camp near base. I think having 3 fallen priests is a bit too much. They don't deal damage and are just free xp.
I'd suggest to simply reduce the camp to 5-1-1 and have it to drop only Level 2 book.

(6) This means on the other side of the base there could be a level 1 permanent drop. Usually this is a camp of level 7-8. You can make it level 9 too. By the way, having two camps dropping just books is not so cool. Players prefer more substantial item like level 1 permanent in the early game.

(7) I don't like very much the 4-2-2-2 camp with 3 wolves. I think you should replace it with something else. Also players hate the dark troll high priest (level 4) because he casts sleep on units/heroes. This is considered too strong and sometimes is a game changer if your units/hero gets surrounded.

(8) The other 4-2-2-2 camp looks cool. You can also consider placing a level 4 berserker instead of one dark troll and one troll priest.

(9) You don't need two high priests at the red camp, one should be enough. The second one you can replace with level 4 berserker. Note that your red camps have no anti-air. They can be easily crept with a small army of air units, because neither maiden of pain nor the wolves attack the air.

(10) Remove murlocs on the border of the map or make them neutral. They are just free xp for players that make a few air units. Let's say they look a bit strange over there

Feel free to make changes you consider worth implementing. And good luck in the contest!
P.S. By the way, it got extended till August 9, so you have time.

P.P.S. Not so sure about the level 3 paths after suggested changes. But don't worry about them much. Players should play the map and they have plenty camps to creep out there.

update:
Swapped Mercenary Camps and Goblin Laboratories (now it will be more difficult to destroy the expand with Goblin Sappers).

PS: I'll have to change the screenshots

Changes to the map:

In my opinion, significant changes were made to the map, so I named it version 2.

• Players always start at cross-spawns.
• The map landscape has undergone significant changes:

1. The position of Laboratories and Mercenary Camps has been changed. Now you can approach them from both direction.
2. The position of the Red camps and the central Orange camps has been slightly changed.
3. The starting positions of the players are shifted slightly to reduce the distance between them.
4. expansions now have a real high-ground, and not just a visual one as before.

• All Green Camps now drop some sort items. Not just books as before.
• The creeps in many camps have been weakened. In particular, all creeps that cast Sleep were removed from the map
  
  .