VQuest Reforged v0.50

Ventura · Sep 5, 2020

Incidentally, with regards to that graphic, VQuest wasn't really meant to stand for Ventura Quest, it's just something a fan created a while back, and I've liked it enough to keep using it.

Wazzz · Sep 5, 2020

I think I might have played something like this a long time ago. It's certainly changed a bit since, but is it the same mod from all that time ago? I remember the starting area with the skeletons, although back then the Berserker was an option and I could only pick one hero

It's a pretty cool trip to see this map again

tulee · Sep 5, 2020

I remember playing this map long ago. The intro region was really good, because the animals were neutral, so there was less danger because you could choose your fights most of the time (excluding the undead in the cemetery).

The description about the quests part is not fair in my opinion. Just because the map this is based on has no quests, doesn't mean more should not be added. I remember getting stuck in this map on the 3rd region (at the bandit dungeon) because there was not much direction, which quests themselves give. Quests basically direct the way the map should be played, and when it is just an open world to kill everything on the map, it is hard to play. I really hope more quests will be added in the future.

Normally new versions of maps are just updated and new uploads are not made (referring to your previous upload) VQuest v3.31

Ventura · Sep 5, 2020

Great to hear from you guys. I realise this isn't for everyone, and I don't doubt I might've since taken it in a direction that won't gel with some, but let me know what you think if you're inclined to have a go all the same.

The lack of quests could be seen to be a bit of a cop-out, it's just a consequence of being inspired by my time in vanilla EQ (in addition to the types of RPGs I generally prefer). A lot of people don't care for games that are all about the 'grind' for loot or xp, and that's fine, to each their own.

if I could start over, it's probably not the map I would create, but I still think there's some enjoyment to be had here

Wazzz · Sep 5, 2020

It definitely always struck me for having a certain atmosphere to it, and having its own environment built around it was very nice to see

It is a little different to how I remember, of course, since now it's an angry gnoll that's charging the gates instead of an orc raider

All this time and I don't know if I even had any idea this map was on the hive, and seeing it have a fresh update after all this time is really awesome <3

deepstrasz · Sep 5, 2020

tulee said:
Normally new versions of maps are just updated and new uploads are not made (referring to your previous upload) VQuest v3.31

Please address
VQuest v3.31

Either update that or have it removed. I doubt it's that different for its own separate thread.

Ventura · Sep 6, 2020

deepstrasz said:
Please address
VQuest v3.31

Either update that or have it removed. I doubt it's that different for its own separate thread.

Not a problem, I have now deleted that one. I didn't realise there could only be one iteration of a map around here.

Wazzz said:
It definitely always struck me for having a certain atmosphere to it, and having its own environment built around it was very nice to see

It is a little different to how I remember, of course, since now it's an angry gnoll that's charging the gates instead of an orc raider

All this time and I don't know if I even had any idea this map was on the hive, and seeing it have a fresh update after all this time is really awesome <3

Thanks for the kind words Wazzz. If you do have a go and run into bugs or the like, let me know and I'll take care of them for you

LifeguardLeroy · Sep 6, 2020

Nice rpg good amount of hero classes too chose from, I assume there just like or close the old mmo I never really played mostly played wow and star wars myself. Was testing the reforged version the Valkyrie stayed glitch floating overhead but thats blizzards fault with the poor remake, might be worth not adding it until they fix that model. Weapon sounds don't activate on melee attack due too the fancy damage calculator no doubt.

deepstrasz · Sep 6, 2020

Ventura said:
Not a problem, I have now deleted that one. I didn't realise there could only be one iteration of a map around here.

Yes, otherwise it's a reupload. In the future, please update instead of upload and delete the older one.
For separate iterations, the versions have to be quite different and I'm not referring to mere content update from one to the other.

deepstrasz · Sep 20, 2020

A credits list in the map description with the names of the authors whose resources you've used is mandatory. That includes models, skins, icons, custom spells, systems. Also, sounds, music and everything outside this site.
This helps you with the models, skins and icons from Hiveworkshop: Resources in Use by VQuest Mk3 v1.35 | HIVE

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Ventura · Sep 21, 2020

Hi Deepstrasz,

I have updated the description with the list of credits taken from the map's text file (which was included with the map in a .zip from the official website so many moons ago). Alfredx_sotn was referenced for those excellent pet models of his the very day I took to using them.

All other resources have been taken from the MMO EverQuest and are used without permission, though Verant/Sony have also been credited above.

Ventura · Sep 23, 2020

I figure I should at least put a little work into this for those that may come back to VQuest in this Reforged area, so I've bumped this Mk3 from v1.35 to v1.40 and with the following changes:

- Fixed the custom sounds being too quiet (new to Reforged).
- Re-enabled the combat sounds.
- Updated some of the tooltips for the spells/abilites/disciplines (so
at least we can see what they are at the venders now).

While I have referenced updating the tooltips for the scrolls above, I realise the descriptions for many of them remain woefully vague with regards to their operation (and offer up just about no specifics at all). Truth be told, the lack of effort on this part is because for many years I thought nobody else would ever play this thing again.

If that changes, I'll put a lot more into this (and/or another mod I'm working on).

tulee · Sep 23, 2020

Ventura said:
another mod I'm working on

Can i ask if it is an rpg map?

Ventura · Sep 25, 2020

tulee said:
Can i ask if it is an rpg map?

Yeah, it is.

Thing is, I don't really much care for story in my RPGs. It works for some people though - and that's fine, to each his own - but when I'm in a dungeon I don't give a damn about the backstory or anything like that, I just want to fight my way through to the bosses, kill them for sick loot, and rinse and repeat.

So I devised an RPG that I call Dungeon Runners (though I've really gotta come up with a better name than that). For now I've built it off a recent version of VQuest, so it looks, sounds and plays like VQuest, but you load up into town, enter a command to run either a normal-length or a short-length dungeon, and you're teleported to the start of a random dungeon filled with random mobs. And it has difficulty settings, so if you choose easy, the mobs will be a couple levels lower than you but a boss might not spawn, whereas on hard, you might even get more than one boss in your dungeon - if you can handle it.

In this mod, it's all about the grind, and that's boring as hell for some people - which, again, is totally fine. But if you load up a game with a guy who enters a save code and his level 348 party spawns, you know he's done the time. His heroes are huge, they look badass, and they're decked.

The trick is to incentivise the journey, I reckon. At level 1 you'll probably just get skeletons or gnolls in your dungeon, but give it a few, and then the frogloks start coming out. Followed by elementals. Then giants. Spectres. And the loot just keeps getting better and better. Each hero gets a point to spend every time they level, and spell scrolls drop. The cleric's level 1 heal is single target, takes a good couple of seconds to cast, and doesn't do much, but if that guy with the level 348 heroes is rocking a high-level cleric heal thanks to getting the right scroll, his won't just be fast, it'll also heal other heroes near the target.

Truth be told, I haven't really put a lot into it though, because there's one drawback which, I'll be honest, has hindered the development of VQuest since time began. The problem is that I can't terrain to save my life. Never could, I just... suck. So there aren't nearly enough variations on dungeon types to make this even remotely interesting.

If I could partner with someone who really knows what they're doing in that arena, the world would be our oyster.

tulee · Sep 25, 2020

Ventura said:
In this mod, it's all about the grind, and that's boring as hell for some people - which, again, is totally fine. But if you load up a game with a guy who enters a save code and his level 348 party spawns, you know he's done the time. His heroes are huge, they look badass, and they're decked.

Sounds like people who like to Grind will enjoy it.

Ventura · Sep 25, 2020

tulee said:
Sounds like people who like to Grind will enjoy it.

I'd like to think so, but unless I could partner with such a terrainer (and get the time I'd need to really work on it), it's unlikely the thing will ever see the light of day.

deepstrasz · Oct 12, 2020

Would be nice to have the scroll items look like the ability icons.
Danger is pretty absent when you can always prepare for an encounter. You can't fight a party unless some creeps are near each other when you click one of them.
Items seem not to give anything. Don't tell me the stack number means the necessary level for the item to work or something.

Ventura · Oct 12, 2020

Thanks for having a go, deepstrasz.

I use custom damage routines so that I could set the combat up how I wanted it. In EverQuest (and many MMOs, come to that), if a mob was 5 or more levels lower than you, it could wail on you until the cows come home for the difference it made, but I struggled to achieve that in Warcraft 3 when I first started modding this.

In the shot you have attached, your druid is wearing a bronze breastplate with 5 armour - note the table up at the top right says your druid's AC is 7. It would drop to 2 if you took that breastplate off, and so too would his damage lower if you took that weapon off.

Danger is largely absent at lower levels - that's by design. It won't remain that way as you level up.

Making the scroll items look like the ability icons isn't something I'd considered. Thanks, I might have to give that a go and see how it 'feels'.

deepstrasz · Oct 13, 2020

Ventura said:
In the shot you have attached, your druid is wearing a bronze breastplate with 5 armour - note the table up at the top right says your druid's AC is 7. It would drop to 2 if you took that breastplate off, and so too would his damage lower if you took that weapon off.

I see. Thanks. It was confusing that the ones in the UI didn't change. I'll edit once I delve into it more.

EDIT:

Why are spell descriptions doubled?
Courage makes the unit icons red when selected in a group as if the buff would be negative. Also its title has red text.
Right, so the damage increase can be seen on the board for players but what about for enemies?

Regardless, seems like a nice map.

Approved.

(previous comments: VQuest Mk3 v1.40)

Ventura · Jan 30, 2022

Hey,

Had a little interest from a nice guy on Reddit so I've put in some work and attached an updated version. As opposed to the Mk3 that's been available up until now, I'm calling it Mk4 (if just because it's been a while since I did anything serious on this) - in this version, up to 5 players can each control anywhere from 2-4 heroes.

It's only v0.60 at the moment but I don't mind putting in a bit of work into fixing things up if people want to play it (blast from the past, you might say). While it should work in live, it may be worth noting that I don't actually own Reforged (I refunded it), so your mileage may vary.

There aren't many new features, but I do like the skills (not to toot my own horn or anything). As a huge fan of Everquest from way back, I like (for example) seeing 'You have become better at meditating!' pop up while my character is doing that (talk about old school).

Oh yeah, and bonus points for people willing to upload public gameplay footage to YouTube. Suffice to say, I don't get that much.

FrozenMemories · Feb 3, 2022

It's pretty cool that you're still active and updating this, VQuest is one of the OG wc3 maps. Back in the day I nearly maxed a Wizard though we never completed PoF/Lady Vox. The ability to control multiple heroes is really cool.

Unfortunately this version looks to have a lot of problems. Some tooltips have errors (Taunt says it affects all enemies, but it's single target. Flame Lick has an extremely long short desc, making it stretch across the entire screen).

Bard in this version was nerfed far too much. Damage aura has been nerfed by 3 times, changing the activation period from 2 to 6 seconds, and aura of life only seems to have two levels so it won't scale beyond earlygame. I'm aware that stacking bards was always a problem but this makes it not really viable in any party; a hero count limit of 2 or something would be so much better to prevent the "stack 8 bards" strategy. Several heroes don't learn any skills until level 9 (for example Ranger), so gameplay's boring for the ~30 minutes it takes to level up; no one in pub games is going to stick around. The level scaling for skills is definitely off. At level 9, Ranger can learn a 10 HP active heal that uses most of her mana. The typical enemy around level 10 deals 7-8 damage per hit, so there's really no use for a skill like that. Innate skills has a 10 minute cooldown, which is way too long for a WC3 game. Warrior seems to have only three skills he ever learns, which doesn't give you much to do besides autoattack.

Rogue's sneak seems to be non-functioning in this version, likely due to a player controlling multiple heroes and the way sneak works (I believe it was never actually invis; it just makes the enemies ally you). A couple heroes are missing I believe, there was a Berserker who doesn't seem to exist anymore and one other?

The "Sit Down" skill doesn't seem to work in this one, or if it does, it's so slow that it's not worth using. I wasn't able to notice a difference between this and natural regeneration when comparing the same hero side by side with one resting and one not. There's frequent text that pops up saying you improve at attacking/defending but it doesn't actually change your attack value as far as I could see. I brought one up to 22 offense and didn't see a change. I also tried leveling up the sit down skill, but it didn't seem to change the amount healed. So instead I just ran my heroes into enemies and died for a full heal, which also reset the 10-minute cooldowns. The base stats that a hero gains seems to not work in this version. I levelled a Monk up to level 6 and still had 1 base attack, 0 base armor; so even with a full party, progressing in this version is going to be impossible around the level 20 mark at the latest.

Backpack capacity was reduced from (I believe) 18 to 5. This doesn't really seem necessary and you pretty quickly run out of space even in the first area.

Back when it was released, the damage taking place on attack animation instead of hit was the best thing possible for the custom damage system; however now, there are damage detection systems out there that can capture and modify damage on hit. If that was implemented, the custom damage system would feel much more normal, whereas right now there is a pretty obvious gap between damage taking place and the attack hitting the enemy. You could also remove the anti-stop-spamming system then, this pretty frequently causes problems even when not trying to abuse the system. If you do go this route, keep in mind that there is a bug right now that increases early-game damage; even though the damage count reads 1-0, it always does 1 damage bypassing your damage system (by default attack) which is actually super noticeable early-game on Monk who only has 1 actual damage.

Also, there is no longer a need to generate different codes between LAN single-player and multiplayer games. There are ways detect whether a game is launched in Single Player (cheats possible) or LAN, and even ways to detect if cheats are used.

On Reforged, the music seems to not play but that's the only reforged-only bug I've seen.

If things were updated I'd definitely play through the game again and make some videos

Ventura · Feb 4, 2022

Hi Frozen,

Thanks so much for playing.

There's something I don't say often - hence my having evolved being able to control multiple heroes at once with this thing. I first did that maybe 10 years ago when it quickly becaome apparent I was probably the only one still playing it. Oh, how time flies.

As a preface, I'll start by saying I have just gone out and re-bought Reforged. Good or bad, time will tell, though I must admit I am looking forward to seeing how the game's now going to look with that.

Like it or not, though, I'm a pretty nostalgic guy when it comes to Everquest, and the way things were when I played classic (so many moons ago) is the way I kinda intend them to remain in VQuest. Things like regenerating health so slowly while sitting down, or the Ranger not having any skills until level 9 - which, incidentally, is also the case for my current party's Shadow Knight (harm touch ability notwithstanding).

It was just the way it was in Everquest, and not just for hybrid characters like those, but anything approaching melee. Play as the warrior and you would only ever really taunt and do a shield bash. All the way to level 50. I should know, the monk was the first class I levelled to max and it was pretty much the same with them, too.

People just expect so much more than that these days (thanks in part to World of Warcraft), though for those guys I would say, there are plenty of other mods out there. I'm trying to scratch a different itch, and to that end, recognise that VQuest isn't going to be winning any popularity awards here in 2022.

I've been working pretty steadily on an update since throwing v0.60 out there, and have just recently discovered the character's offense skill was not increasing their base attack. Suffice to say, I'll be releasing an update for that one shortly. This is a bit of a double-edged sword, though, in that the skill also plays a significant part in how close to max damage your attacks will do, and that part of the equation was working just fine. All in all, mind, even if you happened to be rocking good weapons, you should find your heroes thumping far harder than they were.

Still, guilty as charged - there are classes I need to playtest more. I might be just one man, a gamer with his own favourites, but if I put this out there, I should be doing that. So yeah, I'll look into that.

I'll do a bit of research on the damage detection systems that are currently in play and see what I can port across, but I couldn't see any event options in the editor jump out at me. Google is my friend, though.

Thanks again - more to follow. I'll get a video out of you yet.

FrozenMemories · Feb 4, 2022

Oh yeah - by the way VQuest 3.92 (I believe the final non-multi hero one) was unfortunately broken by one of the many WC3 patches. Once the Sit Down button is pressed, it's permanently blacked out even when you stand up again, until you die. If you still have the source for 3.92 it might be worth releasing a fixed version of that. I'm not even sure which wc3 patch broke it at this point.

I've personally used this DDS and it's relatively simple. What to do is detect any source of physical damage, and then set the damage value to hero's damage or wherever it's stored for creeps (probably point value). If there are any spells that deal physical type damage then you could either change those to magic (doesn't change actual damage dealt as long as no wc3 innate mag res is used) or check to make sure the damage is equal to 1 before changing it.

Ventura · Feb 4, 2022

Thanks, must admit I'm aware of the issue with sit down. I feel like there've been others, too, because I remember a few times throughout the years I've had to change the base spells that run certain abilities for similar reasons.

It's unlikely I'll do anything to the old v3.92, though, and not just because using the old WEU's advanced triggers would cause the map to crash if attempting to load it on any other editor... I have to ask myself, really, who's going to play a mod like VQuest in this day and age if able to control only one hero? Demand isn't exactly going to be up there.

As for the DDS, I'm sure there are great solutions out there, but the issue would the somewhat gargantuan task involved in porting it across to the system I've setup in place. I have to factor in if the potential gain is there for what would be required - for a mod that, I have to say, in all likelihood is only really going to be me spending any serious amount of time playing - and in that sense, I can live with what I've got.

Must admit you've given me a good idea, though. Now that I'm no longer including items in the backpack as part of the save code, there's no reason why I can't just increase the number of items that can be stored back up to 10 so more can be carried.

I've been working on the sounds a bit this afternoon (imported a few more really good ones from EQ), but I could see me starting on that soon

Edit: Okay, so I fired up Reforged for the first time, and to say that initial impressions were dissapointing would be putting it mildly. The damn thing crashed on me three times until I lowered the settings (something I never thought I'd have to do). I'll admit it looks nicer now though (even taking into consideration how much I suck at terraining), but there are graphical anomalies all over the place that I don't get with vanilla. There's like a weird kind of level up animation loading my save code, something of a ghost image ascends into the sky above each of my heroes and stays there, but I don't know what's making it happen - I created a new group, warrior paladin and monk just to test things, and they levelled up fine, it didn't happen. Buggered if I know.

There's a lot of issues with sizing, too. The warrior is huge, but the spiderlings in the newbie area, by contrast, were so small as to be almost invisible.

Suppose I'd be right in assuming that most tend to just run reforged in this day and age?

I've a lot of work to do.

FrozenMemories · Feb 5, 2022

Hmm well I don't agree that there's no desire to play a game like this. There are lots of people who play more classical feeling, team based RPGs, with Gaias Retaliation being probably the most polished one. I hosted VQuest pubs almost every week back some years ago, and there are just a few reasons that people don't play it anymore - long 5-10 minute cooldowns on skills you need for every fight, and Sit Down restoring only 4% on even 3.92 means that it's a slow paced game where you spend almost 3x the amount of time waiting as you do playing, and that just doesn't fit in that well with WC3 as a game engine. There are many other things that don't really fit the standard of modern RPGs but that aren't a big deal, but those are the reasons that ~95% of players leave before level 10.

Most people do run regorged. For me it worked fine, except that music and audio were quite bugged. However when I don't play on reforged, I can't even start the game. It doesn't show up in the list.

Ventura · Feb 6, 2022

That's strange, I've had no trouble starting a game through both vanilla and now Reforged (though admittedly, local area network only, not online or anything).

I've put a bit of work into Reforged and I think I'll be calling it recommended when I release this next version, but I must say, it's peculiar the things I've had to change. The sound and music have been fine for me, but I've found some units tiny while others were huge, and I've also had to go with a lot of different special effects (most notably for the casting) because quite a few of those I was using before are faint enough in Reforged as to be near imperceptible.

I'm in two minds about the cooldowns. I realise that, just because an ability can only be used every half hour or an hour in Everquest, that doesn't necessarily mean even a ten minute cooldown is going to fly here, in a Warcraft mod. What I've done for now is lowered the cooldowns for the disciplines that the melee classes get from ten minutes to six, but I've left alone the Shadow Knight's Harm Touch and the Paladin's Lay on Hands abilities because something about the Paladin being able to basically spam a complete heal more frequently than that just screams OP to me.

I've had a good day of it today and, barring any huge issues, should be about to ready to kick out v0.70 tomorrow night. I'll post the complete changelog here too.
-
Edit: Going to take a bit longer I'm afraid. I like how it's playing but the more time I'm spending with it again, and with Reforged, the more I'm finding things I want to get fixed before I release it.

Edit2: I'm in real deep now.

Going to rename this to VQuest Reforged in light of the coming update (all the mk2 mk3 mk4 stuff that's come before can get confusing).

I'll put out a video or two on my Youtube channel and see what bounces back, maybe I can find a terrainer and a tester or two.

Edit3: So yeah, I ended up doing my own video, for anyone interested - just to show off what I'm working on at the moment and hopefully build up a bit of interest.

Ventura · Jun 1, 2022

Have updated this release from VQuest Mk4 v0.60 to VQuest Reforged v0.50 (version number is different as per my previous post regarding the map effectively being renamed).

Had a couple of guys play of late so figured I would upload this publically in the event anyone else would like to have a go (hope springs eternal, Baldrick). Probably lots of stuff still don't work right and/or broken or imbalanced, probably worth considering it akin to Steam's early access disclaimer - not complete and may or may not change further.

Non-comprehensive changelog is as follows;

v0.50
-----

One or two changes following playtesting.

v0.45
-----

On experience loss in the event of a character de-levelling, skills are dropped to (level x 5) if they now exceed that.
Included a check to ensure a hero's skills cannot exceed (level x 5) at code load.
In combat, unit point values (used to determine damage) are halved if a mob belongs to a user (for the likes of charmed pets).
Mobs that enrage will (should) now only riposte those they're facing but the strike is no longer fractioned.

v0.35 - v0.40
-----

Further changes because people are actually playing.
Maximum level set to 66 but it will prevent being able to level to 66 so death does not always drop a level 65 hero to level 64 (6499 max).

v0.30
-----

Fixed the resurrection angel bug pertaining to the Mage's CotH spell.
Slashed the respawn time for mobs that wander outdoors.
Re-keyed individual drop commands (drop 1-10 or d 1-10 (note space)).
Mobs 50+ can now drop spells with requirements up to 5 levels greater than they are.
Slightly increased the spell drop rate for mobs 50+.
Slightly increased the drop rate in Fear.
Coded an experimental spectactor command. Enter -spec 1-5 to spectate that player, then -specre to enable. Should update when they zone, rez, die, etc. Automatically cancels upon -load or -repick.

v0.25
----

Private release.
Changed the resurrection model used - fixed.

v0.2
-----

Renamed to VQuest Reforged, TEST version - v0.2.
Made a few changes as a consequence of the livestream video Saturday 12th Feb 2022.
Imported several item icons from EverQuest and more unit sounds.
Selo's Accelerando is no longer a permanent ability - it will now, along with the Bard's Hymn of Restoration and Chords of Dissonance lines, last a minimum of 12 seconds when activated.
Timing on the bard songs has been brought down from every 4 seconds to every 2 seconds.
Necromancer pets at the highest levels now use the game's spectre model and sound like spectres.

v0.65 (4th February 2022)
-----

Fixed a few bugs (many more likely remain).
Increased the innate rate at which heroes heal when sitting down.
Lowered pet innate damage.
Touched up more of the tooltips, including for the disciplines.
The 50+ spells that drop from mobs 50+ no longer save to save codes (so more items can be added to the stash).
The Skeletal Necromancer in the crypt now drops something really nice when he is killed but has a placeholder who is the more likely spawn.
At every level, and with every kill, there is now a rare chance that a very, very nice item can drop.
Pets will now automatically attack any unit that attacks their master.
Toned down the healing done by mobs at lower levels.
Created potions of light healing and greater healing to accompany those already in the game, they are very rare but can drop from requisite-level mobs.
The potion of restore mana is now a lot more rare.
Items that boost health and mana regeneration now do so more quickly.
Sub level 50 spells can again drop from sub level 50 mobs, but only provided the mob is of the level that would be required to cast the spell.
Only one Gnoll Necromancer and Gnoll Champion will now attack the Highpass Keep at a time.
Renamed a couple of the quest NPCS in Highpass.
Fixed an issue preventing hero innate damage from scaling correctly with the hero's offense skill.
Lowered the hit point bonus per strength point from 12 to 7.5.
Imported some more Everquest unit sounds.
Lowered the damage done by the Shadow Knight's Harm Touch ability.
Increased the backpack quantity back up from 5 to 10 (credit to FrozenMemories on Hiveworkshop for the idea).
Reforged is now recommended. Unit sizes and special effects have been modified to suit.
Lowered the timer on the bard songs from six seconds to four.
Moved some of the button positions around to ensure now no duplicates.
Removed the messages relating to sitting down and standing up.
Lowered the cooldowns for the disciplines from 10 minutes to 6.
DOTs now have a chance to turn nearby passive mobs hostile.
Increased respawn times, particularly in dungeons.

VQuest Reforged v0.50

VQuest ReForged v0.50 (Map)

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