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Trial and Error

This bundle is marked as useful / simple. Simplicity is bliss, low effort and/or may contain minor bugs.
Trial and Error
Made by trev

Trial and Error is an altered melee map, where the Human race has been entirely replaced by the furious Dwarves. As the race has been changed it presents new features, different units, sounds, stats and customized heroes and other features.
Note:For the sake of realism, buildings, doodads, and trees have been scaled up, as the units have been scaled down.

Features
+ Human race completely changed.
+ Heavily tweaked terrain.
+ Improved realism of various aspects of gameplay.
+ Custom models and icons.
+ A lot of new units and changes.


Special Thanks to Conflate, who has been helping me create this map. As well as Remixer, for the map's description, update 3.0, and all the advice and help he's given me.

Version 1.0
Uploaded, on 25.2.2013.

Version 2.0
State, as of 16.3.2013.

Version 2.1
1. Fixed hotkey descriptions for all Dwarven units and buildings.
2. The tents(farms) now produce 10 food, instead of 6. Of course, their cost has been increased in order for balance to be kept.
3. Fully fixed icons of the Archmage(hero) and 'Hordebane'(hero) in the Dwarven faction.

Version 2.2
1. All units(at least the units which can by default) can attack buildings, like in an ordinary map. Having only a few being able to attack them simply caused too many issues, and could be abused. However, for the sake of realism, the hit points of most buildings have been increased with another +1000, so that they're a bit harder to take down.
2. Fixed creep item drops.
3. Fixed bug where only one tree variation would be shown.
4. Improved terrain/environment. However, it's more detailed at some places, and less detailed at others, as I want some variety in the map, and I don't really want it to be extremely detailed.

Version 3.0
Featuring Remixer's efforts, who alone did 100% of the work in this update(again, many thanks!)

1. Total conversion and improvement of the terrain, featuring improved realism of the ground, more/better-placed doodads and creep bases.
2. Revised/balanced/new location of the default player bases, creep camps, mercenary camps and goblin merchants.
3. Overall new, better atmosphere of the map.
4. Units can now attack buildings/structures as they can in normal Blizzard melee maps. (As in, the concept where only some units can attack buildings has been removed!)
5. Other minor fixes and improvements.

Enjoy, all, and thank you again, Remixer!

Version 3.1
Lots of minor balancing improvements and bug fixes. As well, the Town Hall/Keep/Castle models have been replaced by resources created by Conflate, special thanks to him!


Overview
mapoverview_zps4c28386f.jpg

The picture is not take from the current version of the map.
Part of Dwarven Factory
mappaaa_zps258afcfd.jpg

The picture is not take from the current version of the map.



Blizzard Entertainment(owner and maker of Warcraft 3)

Battle Priest
by Norinrad

Elite Siege Engine - The Übertank
by Team Green Quality: l0w_kwaliti and [Deolrin]

BTNBattlepriest
by Norinrad

BTNShieldBreaker
by Norinrad

BTNThane
by Norinrad

BTNTlenoTechMechanic
by The Weird Human

BTNWarAcademy
by Lord_T

Lord_T's War Academy
by Lord_T

DeadDwarfs
by Sellenisko

DwarfWarrior
by Urkdrengi

Dwarven Battlepriest
by Tranquil

Dwarven warrior
by Frankster

Dwarven Thane
by Norinrad

Dwarven Worker
by IamMclovin

Hero Geomancer
by Tranquil

BTNEliteSeigeTank
by Mr.Goblin

BTNGreatMountainKing
By Marcos DAB

BTNHunter
by Mr.Goblin

DwarvenShieldBreaker
by Norinrad

Bunker/Station/Headquarters
By Conflate

Tower
by unknownczar

Keywords:
dwarves, dwarven, melee, modified, warcraft, altered, dwarf.
Contents

Trial and Error (Map)

Reviews
» Vengeancekael:[c] 「Profile :: Hive Staff」 » Reasons: » Comment: *Missing disbtn icon for Barracks & Battle-Priest *Gryphon Rider has 'Aerial Shackles', but no mana *Hordebane: Flamethrower's & Inspire's tooltips don't indicate the hotkey...

Moderator

M

Moderator

General

Review

Other

» Vengeancekael:[c] Profile :: Hive Staff
» Reasons:
» Comment:
*Missing disbtn icon for Barracks & Battle-Priest
*Gryphon Rider has 'Aerial Shackles', but no mana
*Hordebane: Flamethrower's & Inspire's tooltips don't indicate the hotkey
*Inspire needs a passive icon
*Flamethrower doesn't have a sound effect
*What's the Barrage upgrade good for when it doesn't do anything and instead you've added the 'Siege Engine Upgrade'?
*The changes aren't enough, some heroes have just had a visual change, the archmage has received other default skills - Try adding custom spells
*Same for normal units, Battle-Priest is the same, most barracks units are the same, etc.
» Rules: [c] Map Submission
» Contact: [c] Staff Contact
! 'Reasons' are automated !

Verdict
+
-

No review available.
Not Rated
[tr]​

Suggestions:
  • No more suggestions available, see 'General>Comment'

Moderated Version: March 24
Date: 27/Mar/2013 18:08:21
 
Level 31
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
4,186
You shouldn't double post (post two messages to same thread in a row).
Instead posting another post after another use "Edit" button in the bottom-right corner of your old message.

- Description now a lot better. Review:

Well I tried the map and first impression is that the buildings are annoyinly large, I can see your point of making them more realistic but they are way too big, a Town Hall blocks most of your entire screen and also some high buildings are so close to your camera. Either make buildings smaller or make camera command.
It also seems that you have not made much of changes to any race, for exept models to humans. They have similar units, only values has been changed and the Shield Breakers are way too overpowered. Also not too many units can attack buildings and when I tried to attack my enemy base I realized these units can not attack to ground and nothing had told me that these specific units could not attack units. Edit the units descriptions so that you can see what they can do. Also you have not changed Hero Abilities which is bad, you should atleast change the spells a little also human race hass only melee and strenght heroes and only two heroes in total.
The terrain is rather too plain and way too flat and unbalanced to players. The player in top right corner has the best location; gold mines near and far from enemies and one Goblin Merchant pretty close (they are so unbalanced located). Also I could say you have selected way too large map for five players, my hero was level 5 when I reached the first enemy. Also I found only one creep camp which had item drop. Also the creep camps are unbalanced the base's gold mines are not guarded by any creeps which means that if you don't play with full house there is some gold mines unguarded. Also having green creep camps and orange creep camps randomly guarding gold mines is not good. So overall the map is just too huge for five players (could fit better for 10 or 12 players). Only five players on this huge map and dozens of creep camps in between them. (If you did not know (if you have not changed it) your hero can level only up to 5 levels with creeps, after that he gets level only from enemy units) there is no point to use such a huge map for only five players and 26 gold mines for 5 players... well I think that is too much.


- Balance terrain ( I would prefer a whole new map )
- Scale buildings down
- Edit the units descriptions to the real information
- Add item drops for creeps
- Balance creep camps
- Lower the amount of creeps camps and goldmine (use smaller map)
- Try to make more detailed terrain and also balanced
- Make "custom" heroes more custom and creative
- Check that pathing all over map is good (The goldmine to the north near bottom-left corner is not reachable unless you destroy trees from around it)

alot of your suggestions are intentional things, which arn't really negative either.

if you read the description, almost all these things are adressed. ex: units not being able to attack buildings, that is intentional. the maker decided to add his own realistic touch to the game, and logically swords and axes cannot damage a stone building
 

Remixer

Map Reviewer
Level 31
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
1,954
You can make units to drop items by:
1. Selecting the unit (so the window pops up).
2. There should be three main categories in the window (General, Abilities, Items Dropped). Select the third one.
3. When you have selected Items Dropped category, there should be a field called (Items Dropped on Death) and there 2 choices (Use Item Table From Map, Use Custom Item Table). Select the Custom Item Table.
4. When you have selected Use Custom Item Table, there should be buttons on the right side of the window, and one available (New Set).
(The set means a drop of item which can contain many items but only one of them can be dropped. There can be several Sets per unit and from every set an item drops)
5. Press New Set button, this should make (Delete Item) and (New Item) button available. Press the (New Item) button.
6. When you press (New Item) button a window of Item list should pop up. In the window is a list of items and also few fields to choose (Random, Specific) select (Random Field).
(Random Field is the choice which item of which class and level you want it to drop. By setting Specific fields values same you can see which items of that class and level exists)
7. When you select the (Random) set values (Level 1) or (Level 2) and (Class Power Up). Select the Level field by the needs (Level 1 means minor item and Level 2 is a bit better. (For example tomes (Level 1) gives 1 attribute point and (Level 2) gives 2.
By selecting (Level 2) and (Power Up) the unit will drop random item from following items: (Tome of Agility, Tome of Experience, Tome of Intelligence, Tome of Knowledge, Tome of Strength). (Power Up) class items are for example runes, glyphs, tomes and gold coins.
8. Press (Ok) from bottom right corner of the window. This will lead you to the Item Table Window.
9. If you don't want the specific unit to drop more items just press (Ok). However if you want one unit to drop more than one item just press (New Set) button again and (New Item) button after that.
10. Questions, did it help?
 

Remixer

Map Reviewer
Level 31
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
1,954
Remixer's Review

General
Generally the map still lacks a lot of things; good descriptions to units, proper terraining and so on.
The thing that only a few units can attack buildings is not that good I think, specially for dwarves who's
siege units has such a short range and for example Black Zitadel can beat many of siege tanks before
it gets destroyed. If you focus on improving certain features of the map for example custom units and
it will get a lot better.


Terrain
The terrain is possibly the biggest problem in the map, at least for me. The terrain is way too plain and
empty and the parts which are decorated are mostly failed with too much same doodads or rough usage
of the height tool. Also the map lacks a lot of tile variation using and you should check out few terraining
tutorials or ask some one to terrain it for you.


Creep camps and item drops
Overall the creep camps are pretty ugly if you ask me. At some creep camps the units are still facing
randomly at some angle. Also the creep camps rewards as item drops or a building is unbalanced.
Also item drops you have made are not good, they drop only certain items, not randomly. For example
the trolls (8 level together) drops level 1 tome of strength. Also at some creep camps you have 50% to
get 1 item, 30% chance to get some else item and also 20% chance to get nothing. The creep camps are
themselves already not balanced and placed correctly and some players gets a huge advantage if they
can slay more creeps than their enemies and specially when they get some item drops. The creep camps
are also badly decorated and you need training on creating them.


Unit Balancing
The units between races are.. well I do not really know. As I played against undead as dwarves they beat
me up every time with their huge amount of ghouls and crypt fiends as I could have only a few shieldbreakers
because of their big cost of food and gold. I found it really annoying that 1 farm can provide food for only 2
basic units of dwarves. You need really to fix this. Even if the basic units are good they will take way too heavy
damage from the enemy armies of night elves or undeads because of their low food costs of archers or ghouls.
The thing that only a few units can attack buildings is bad so far, you should balance the races so that every
race has a chance for early domination, as dwarves the undeads came and beated up my army, since the
amount of soldiers is so low. After that (the AI does not support map) their units just started to surround
buildings at my base because they could not attack. As I try to create army or hero to kill them they all focus
on a one unit that I create and I have no chance of killing them. However if you play as undead you have huge
advantage in base defending since you can make your farms have towers and your heardquarter shoots.
I found it also pretty overpowered to make tower rush attack with dwarves the enemy base, since you can
put your builder in the middle of 4 towers and it is protected from melee harming and the towers just kills
the enemy army and buildings.


Heroes
I was happy to see finally customized heroes, however their spells does not support each other; for example
the Archmage he has Fire rain which takes a long time to cast, in the other hand he has this attack boost
which gets greater as he attacks with normal attacks. There is no sense of taking the attack boost since he
rarely uses normal attacks as he just can cast another spell. Also two of the heroes (Hordebane and Archmage)
has incorrectly imported DISBTN icons. Fix that.


Overall
Overall the map has still few major things which needs fixing and balancing. It takes a lot of effort though and
it will not be easy I can say.


to trev: Check out my profile and album name Trial and Error Showcase, I uploaded 1 picture of the terrain as original and as I fixed it a little. I will upload more pictures if you are interested.
 
Level 3
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
45
Remixer's Review

General
Generally the map still lacks a lot of things; good descriptions to units, proper terraining and so on.
The thing that only a few units can attack buildings is not that good I think, specially for dwarves who's
siege units has such a short range and for example Black Zitadel can beat many of siege tanks before
it gets destroyed. If you focus on improving certain features of the map for example custom units and
it will get a lot better.


Terrain
The terrain is possibly the biggest problem in the map, at least for me. The terrain is way too plain and
empty and the parts which are decorated are mostly failed with too much same doodads or rough usage
of the height tool. Also the map lacks a lot of tile variation using and you should check out few terraining
tutorials or ask some one to terrain it for you.


Creep camps and item drops
Overall the creep camps are pretty ugly if you ask me. At some creep camps the units are still facing
randomly at some angle. Also the creep camps rewards as item drops or a building is unbalanced.
Also item drops you have made are not good, they drop only certain items, not randomly. For example
the trolls (8 level together) drops level 1 tome of strength. Also at some creep camps you have 50% to
get 1 item, 30% chance to get some else item and also 20% chance to get nothing. The creep camps are
themselves already not balanced and placed correctly and some players gets a huge advantage if they
can slay more creeps than their enemies and specially when they get some item drops. The creep camps
are also badly decorated and you need training on creating them.


Unit Balancing
The units between races are.. well I do not really know. As I played against undead as dwarves they beat
me up every time with their huge amount of ghouls and crypt fiends as I could have only a few shieldbreakers
because of their big cost of food and gold. I found it really annoying that 1 farm can provide food for only 2
basic units of dwarves. You need really to fix this. Even if the basic units are good they will take way too heavy
damage from the enemy armies of night elves or undeads because of their low food costs of archers or ghouls.
The thing that only a few units can attack buildings is bad so far, you should balance the races so that every
race has a chance for early domination, as dwarves the undeads came and beated up my army, since the
amount of soldiers is so low. After that (the AI does not support map) their units just started to surround
buildings at my base because they could not attack. As I try to create army or hero to kill them they all focus
on a one unit that I create and I have no chance of killing them. However if you play as undead you have huge
advantage in base defending since you can make your farms have towers and your heardquarter shoots.
I found it also pretty overpowered to make tower rush attack with dwarves the enemy base, since you can
put your builder in the middle of 4 towers and it is protected from melee harming and the towers just kills
the enemy army and buildings.


Heroes
I was happy to see finally customized heroes, however their spells does not support each other; for example
the Archmage he has Fire rain which takes a long time to cast, in the other hand he has this attack boost
which gets greater as he attacks with normal attacks. There is no sense of taking the attack boost since he
rarely uses normal attacks as he just can cast another spell. Also two of the heroes (Hordebane and Archmage)
has incorrectly imported DISBTN icons. Fix that.


Overall
Overall the map has still few major things which needs fixing and balancing. It takes a lot of effort though and
it will not be easy I can say.


to trev: Check out my profile and album name Trial and Error Showcase, I uploaded 1 picture of the terrain as original and as I fixed it a little. I will upload more pictures if you are interested.

i'm not sure if i understand you right but are you telling me the unit descriptions u c at the buildings which create them need some refurbishing or something? i'm the head of descriptions and i think it's cooler 2 get a slight historical background than 2 read "this unit can be upgraded to suk 3 dix instead of 1 at this buildin here"
descriptions for the other races are coming too, but so far the focus was on dwarves because they are the new race in the map

i agree that the terraining could use some work and thank u 4 the picture u sent about how u made a change 2 the terrain, we'll look in2 updating it (trev does the actual editing and stuff)

trev is looking in2 the item drops

the point behind only a few units being able to attack buildings was part logic part inventiveness bcus it's a lot different than a normal melee map

i never tried something like that with the dwarf worker starting 4 towers 2 wall himself up and then construct them, that'd take a lot of resources (in the early game) and he can still be killed by ranged units so that's no problem

trev is looking in2 the disbtn icons
 

Remixer

Map Reviewer
Level 31
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
1,954
About the descriptions
I know and I think similar. I think it is better to have a lore instead of just basic stats, but however some descriptions does not give any information about the unit at all. For example the Hordebane hero, I tried to get picture what kind of hero it is, but the description just told a historical story about him, it did not tell either is it range or melee or basically not much at all. You should tell for example is the unit melee or range and burster or just basic fighter or so.

As I have made item descriptions to the hosted project Shadows of the Past I know a little about them. :)

About the tower attack, yes it is problem since you can send like 3 dwarf builders at the start of game and construct a tower extremely fast. As you start the construction you can leave and see the entire base of the enemy and the enemy can't do anything about it until he gets siege units which can attack to buildings, in that time you have had a lot of time to upgrade the towers and create your own army. As the dwarven towers costs only (80G and 40L).
 
Level 3
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
45
About the descriptions
I know and I think similar. I think it is better to have a lore instead of just basic stats, but however some descriptions does not give any information about the unit at all. For example the Hordebane hero, I tried to get picture what kind of hero it is, but the description just told a historical story about him, it did not tell either is it range or melee or basically not much at all. You should tell for example is the unit melee or range and burster or just basic fighter or so.

As I have made item descriptions to the hosted project Shadows of the Past I know a little about them. :)

About the tower attack, yes it is problem since you can send like 3 dwarf builders at the start of game and construct a tower extremely fast. As you start the construction you can leave and see the entire base of the enemy and the enemy can't do anything about it until he gets siege units which can attack to buildings, in that time you have had a lot of time to upgrade the towers and create your own army. As the dwarven towers costs only (80G and 40L).

idk i think of a ranged unit when i c a tank

umm u can create a scout tower for 80g and 40l ok
u can't actually build it, u can just place it down and leave it like that at 1% bcus ur workers r gonna get killed by the enemy if they stick around 2 build the tower
yah it does provide line of sight and i guess ur right this can be abused hmm i'll talk 2 trev about this
 
Level 23
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
4,041
I tried it out and it was good and all, but as it was pointed out, its bit hard to do anything if your basic unit takes 3 food

Also some units dont have the shortcut showed up in their names(Shielded Warrior or how he is called, doesnt have anything highlighted but still S works)

also other races(at least Night elves) are able to attack my buildings with normal units(archers, heroes) while I couldnt(for obvious reasons)
 
Level 3
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
18
Update. Version 2.1:

1. Fixed hotkey descriptions for all Dwarven units and buildings.
2. The tents(farms) now produce 10 food, instead of 6. Of course, their cost has been increased in order for balance to be kept.
3. Fully fixed icons of the Archmage(hero) and 'Hordebane'(hero) in the Dwarven faction.

Now working on:

*Improving terrain/environment.
*Fixing creep item drops.
 
Last edited:

Remixer

Map Reviewer
Level 31
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
1,954
Update. Version 2.2:

1. All units(at least the units which can by default) can attack buildings, like in an ordinary map. Having only a few being able to attack them simply caused too many issues, and could be abused. However, for the sake of realism, the hit points of most buildings have been increased with another +1000, so that they're a bit harder to take down.
2. Fixed creep item drops.
3. Fixed bug where only one tree variation would be shown.
4. Improved terrain/environment. However, it's more detailed at some places, and less detailed at others, as I want some variety in the map, and I don't really want it to be extremely detailed.

You should possible add 'Attack 2' to the units that you want to be the "siege units". So the 'Attack 2' is allowed only on buildings and deals much more damage, or you can just change from advanced settings, the damage rate of siege attacks against fortified armors or so.

By the way, update description here in Hive on the map if you make changes such are allow units to attack buildings.
 
Level 3
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
18
HUGE Update. Version 3.0: Featuring Remixer's efforts, who alone did 100% of the work in this update(again, many thanks!)

1. Total conversion and improvement of the terrain, featuring improved realism of the ground, more/better-placed doodads and creep bases.
2. Revised/balanced/new location of the default player bases, creep camps, mercenary camps and goblin merchants.
3. Overall new, better atmosphere of the map.
4. Units can now attack buildings/structures as they can in normal Blizzard melee maps. (As in, the concept where only some units can attack buildings has been removed!)
5. Other minor fixes and improvements.

Enjoy, all, and thank you again, Remixer!
 
Level 3
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
18
Update. Version 3.1:

Lots of minor balancing improvements and bug fixes. As well, the Town Hall/Keep/Castle models have been replaced by resources created by Conflate, special thanks to him!
 
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