I watched your Lone Panther 2, and I'm disapointed surprised by the results. Hearing all these nice reviews in the chatroom, I thought this was going to be "The Spirit of Vengeance" 5/5 quality, but I was left yawning and moaning at the cinematic.


Some bad things (there were more, but I cannot remember most):

• You can hear background whispers with Tedesco’s voice, otherwise it would be perfect. (Explained by CMarket, still makes it sound awful).
• You can’t hit “escape” to quit the cinematic. << Major mistake. (Even though explained by CMarket, I still believe it's a fundamental thing to have in a cinematic, especially single player).
• Edward’s voice doesn’t match the cinematic, especially because he sounds like he’s in a futuristic marine suit. (Also explained by CMarket, but it still remains as a "bad thing").
• The animations of Henry are poor, he moves his body up and it immediately goes down. << Minor. (Maybe not such a major thing, but annoying to the eye. Still remains.)
• See the extra Henry bug? (Fixed, good work).
• Too much talking and not enough action. It made this cinematic boring. (Explained, but I still believe there should be a balance between the two).
• Pirate of the Carribean ending... (Discussed with CMarket).
• Big file size, which was the cause of the abuse of imported stuff. Some of the imported stuff were basically uglier than normal wc3 models/skins. << Minor. (CMarket, I wasn't complaining about the file size specifically, but the poor quality imported objects... which seemed to take up a lot of space compared to their worth.
• Created in GUI, which is pretty mediocre now-a-days. << Minor. (Explained, but I still believe JASS (see Infrane's Cinematic System) is a must-have for unique cinematic effects.
• No emotion-spewing scenes. This is what ruined it for me. (Still remains, even though explained).

Good things:

• Henry’s voice is well done (Kudos to the guy who did it).
• Terrain, ambience and theme are well done (even though the story-line is vague).
• The story-line was creative, I will give you that (even though it is... weird).
• The custom sounds added another dimension to this cinematic.
• Some nice camera angles.

Right now, I would give it a 2.5/5 3.4/5 4/5 (latest update fixes some of the problems), because of the problems that I see. Fix the bad stuff, and I'll give it a 4.5/5 (since some of these problems are basically unfixable for CMarket, the comment is striked out until, if ever, made true). The cinematic is good, but is not "The Spirit of Vengeance" 5/5 quality.

BoneBreaker said:

I watched your Lone Panther 2, and I'm disapointed by the results. Hearing all these nice reviews in the chatroom, I thought this was going to be "The Spirit of Vengeance" 5/5 quality, but I was left yawning and moaning at the (ugly?) cinematic.


Some bad things (there were more, but I cannot remember most):

• You can hear background whispers with Tedesco’s voice, otherwise it would be perfect.
• You can’t hit “escape” to quit the cinematic. << Major mistake.
• Edward’s voice doesn’t match the cinematic, especially because he sounds like he’s in a futuristic marine suit.
• The animations of Henry are poor, he moves his body up and it immediately goes down.
• See the extra Henry bug? << Major mistake.
• Too much talking and not enough action. It made this cinematic boring.
• Pirate of the Carribean ending...
• Big file size, which was the cause of the abuse of imported stuff. Some of the imported stuff were basically uglier than normal wc3 models/skins.
• Created in GUI, which is pretty mediocre now-a-days.
• No emotion-spewing scenes. This is what ruined it for me.

Good things:

• Henry’s voice is well done (Kudos to the guy who did it).
• Terrain, ambience and theme are well done (even though the story-line is vague).
• The story-line was creative, I will give you that (even though it is... weird).

Right now, I would give it a 2.5/5 , because of its filesize : quality ratio. Fix the bad stuff, and I'll give it a 4.0/5 (that's being generous). Sorry, the cinematic is good, but is not "The Spirit of Vengeance" 5/5 quality.

Click to expand...

There is 3 bad point over here I do not think it is right.

You can’t hit “escape” to quit the cinematic

Click to expand...

Cinematic are meant to be watch and it ain't necessary for a cinematic to have such a function. To add this function or not, it is up to the mapper decision.

Big file size, which was the cause of the abuse of imported stuff. Some of the imported stuff were basically uglier than normal wc3 models/skins

Click to expand...

In case you forgot. The import of mp3 sound for those voice act are the main factor of why the map sizes are big and it is truely inevictable even if you minimize the quality of the sound with other program along with optimizer.

Created in GUI, which is pretty mediocre now-a-days

Click to expand...

Created map in GUI is alright as long it does not leak. For cinematic map, leak trigger are fine as long as it does not effect the quality of the map such as causing lag unless the cinematic is meant to be multiplayer map.

This is an ideal continuation of the first part. The voice actors made their job very good.
CMarket, I think your cinematics are the best of all and I hope to be able to see more of this perfection.
Anyway, I found a "bug".
After reading the sign before entering that chamber, there were 2 Pediments (if that name is correct written ^^) seeable. Better hide one
I will rate this with 5/5 and surely give you some rep. Good Job, m8.

Guys made an update. Apparently I mistakenly didn't start the first few scenes with triggers. You might want to watch it again, at least the first 5-7 minutes as they are new.

Removed the 2 Henrys this way too.

I find the story strange in this part. Suddenly they're on Deadman's Isle? I think you should have explained a bit more how they got there and everything. And William was killed by his own brother seems a little extrem. Also that pirate that was sent of to his death and turned into a larger abomination doesn't seem right. He shouldn't get any larger.

It is a good cinematic and the voice-acting of the Melech guy was very good. The terrain still seems a bit bare but it's good that you've thought about it.

Here is my review for your cinematic:

Pro-points:
[+] very good terrain/environment
[+] good use of music and sounds
[+] cinematic with voice acting
[+] very nice ambient
[+] nice cameras

Neutral-points
[~] when you make a horror-like cinematic, make more horror-scenes (that's my opinion)

Bad-points
[-] the voice acting sometimes sounds odd
[-] only a few action scenes

Overall a very good cinematic, not so good as part one.
My rating is 5/5

BoneBreaker said:

I watched your Lone Panther 2, and I'm disapointed surprised by the results. Hearing all these nice reviews in the chatroom, I thought this was going to be "The Spirit of Vengeance" 5/5 quality, but I was left yawning and moaning at the cinematic.

Some bad things (there were more, but I cannot remember most):

• You can hear background whispers with Tedesco’s voice, otherwise it would be perfect.
• You can’t hit “escape” to quit the cinematic. << Major mistake.
• Edward’s voice doesn’t match the cinematic, especially because he sounds like he’s in a futuristic marine suit.
• The animations of Henry are poor, he moves his body up and it immediately goes down.
• See the extra Henry bug? (Fixed, good work).
• Too much talking and not enough action. It made this cinematic boring.
• Pirate of the Carribean ending... (Discussed with CMarket).
• Big file size, which was the cause of the abuse of imported stuff. Some of the imported stuff were basically uglier than normal wc3 models/skins. << Minor.
• Created in GUI, which is pretty mediocre now-a-days. << Minor.
• No emotion-spewing scenes. This is what ruined it for me.

Good things:

• Henry’s voice is well done (Kudos to the guy who did it).
• Terrain, ambience and theme are well done (even though the story-line is vague).
• The story-line was creative, I will give you that (even though it is... weird).
• The custom sounds added another dimension to this cinematic.

Right now, I would give it a 2.5/5 3.2/5. (latest update fixes some of the problems), because of its filesize : quality ratio. Fix the bad stuff, and I'll give it a 4.5/5 (that's being generous). Sorry, the cinematic is good, but is not "The Spirit of Vengeance" 5/5 quality.

Click to expand...

- There are supposed to be whispers in his voice, he is a ghost and that is a special effect.

- I disagree with cinematic skip triggers in cinematics that last more then 15 minutes because it is more likely that a person will hit escape in the middle of this 35 minute cinematic then a person who actually wants this trigger. If the person who wants the trigger presses Alt+F4 he will lose 1 minute to restart his warcraft(if not less). A person who hits escape by mistake will lose however many minutes he needs to get back to this point.

- Action over story is something subjective that I can't change. Some of my cinematics have more actions, some have more story, but you can't have everything all the time. This part has this, we'll see what the next one brings.

- Yes, Edwards voice might not have been the best choice, but it was the only choice. If you can do better and have some free time I would be more then happy to have you working for me.

- Henry's animation is triggered in some parts and slowed down in other. The rest is completely the models fault, I did all I could.

- The file size is big because of the custom music(several songs that play throughout the whole cinemaitc) and the voice actings, not because of the models/skins.

- Lol, you can't put my style of triggering as a bad choice. It's a single player cinematic. I can make it however I want and give the same result.

- I agree that there were no dramatical moments in this part. The story went as it did and there was no place to put such a moment in this part.

-----------------------

Please don't take my reply in vain. I respect your opinion, I just wanted to show you the layout of the situation.

Part 1 had more actions? I dont agree. I was tense through the whole cinematic, especially on that island. I thought this one was better than the first one, so perhaps I should have been given that one a 4 and did not evaluate it that much. I have some minor critique though which has not been brought to you yet.

When you write 'bla...bla.' it looks weird. It would be better if you wrote 'bla... Bla.' (noticing the space after the dots, and the B. But as told it might be minor, but I though it was annoying.)

I found the 'diseased gas' shot by those creatures rather funny since its a blizzard model and the boubles pouring up in the air had happy smiley faces :]

Otherwise keep up the good work and I cant wait for the next one. Yet I am not going to rate it today since I am alittle cleaved if it should get a 4 or a 5. But I am still stunned about your work.

~Eccho~

I enjoyed this more than the first part. I liked the use of models, especially the Hummers, and the voice for the Two headed Baby model was excellent a creepy. XD I liked the models used to introduce the poison fog although I think the ship could've been a bit better designed. Perhaps moving the cannons a bit underneath the floor and some on top to make it look like it isn't a raft.

lol. I didn't realize the crypt I made for this was used in the tunnel area. XD They were so natural to me, and looked wonderful in the lighting you gave them. XD

Ultimately, I am impressed at how good you are becoming. This chapter was much better than part one as the voices were improved, although William's could've been a bit better. He sounded bored. XD I loved the use of cameras and I understand why Henry sounds so emotionless, bored, and unsurprised/scared. I saw some typos, but in the grande scheme of the show, were minor, as I understood what it meant anyway.

I would rate it a 4/5 due to the great effects, models, and terrain/camera work. The sounds were used to an escellent effect. 4/5 cause it wasn't perfect with the problems mentioned above. Although, it kept me very interested and I now want Part 3. =D Great Job and keep up the Great Work!

Edit: Eccho is right! There ARE smiley faces in it! XD Must be for teh lulz. XD

Cinematics should never get more points than advanced maps (which use JASS and vJASS) mainly because they are in most cases made in GUI and are a lot easier to create ....

Anyway good cinematic though.

Flame_Phoenix said:

Cinematics should never get more points than advanced maps (which use JASS and vJASS) mainly because they are in most cases made in GUI and are a lot easier to create ....

Click to expand...

I think it was not very easy to create this cinematic. I think he spent a lot of
time in it. Of course, a cinematic is easier than a map which is written in JASS, but it is very good, and you see the hard work in this cinematic

Flame_Phoenix said:

Cinematics should never get more points than advanced maps (which use JASS and vJASS) mainly because they are in most cases made in GUI and are a lot easier to create ....

Anyway good cinematic though.

Click to expand...

Seriously, a 3/5 just because it wasn't as hard to make as some other map isn't really good. Now, I'm not angry or anything but mind justifying it up a bit?

A good map is a map which is unbugged, made upon non static methods in order to serve multi player purposes and having efficiency, optimization, and game play in mind.
This is a simple definition of what I consider a good map.

I gave this the note I gave because I found the first one better. My classification reflects my opinion, and although I also had other considerations in my mind, this shows mainly a personal review.

This is still a great cinematic, I cannot denny the creator placed effort in it, but some times people need more.

This is not an ordinary map. It is a high quality machinima movie created within an editor. According to my opinion a good map is a fun map.

Click to expand...

In fact you are right, this is not a map at all, it is merely a cinematic, which proves my point.
As for quality, I already saw better, but having in mind such finds are rare, I guess it deserves to be rewarded.

A good map is a map which is unbugged, made upon non static methods in order to serve multi player purposes and having efficiency, optimization, and game play in mind.
This is a simple definition of what I consider a good map.

I gave this the note I gave because I found the first one better. My classification reflects my opinion, and although I also had other considerations in my mind, this shows mainly a personal review.

This is still a great cinematic, I cannot denny the creator placed effort in it, but some times people need more.

Click to expand...

I agree that non-bugged are the main priority. Still, it is not right to give a map such as cinematic style map a decent rating just because it is done at Gui or easier to make. Gui are fine in my opinion, as long as it does not leak.

Cinematic have it's own difficulty to make as well, such as trying to develop the terrain, model animation and etc etc. Which naturally make it as challenging as other type of map to be develop as well.

I agree that non-bugged are the main priority. Still, it is not right to give a map such as cinematic style map a decent rating just because it is done at Gui or easier to make. Gui are fine in my opinion, as long as it does not leak.

Cinematic have it's own difficulty to make as well, such as trying to develop the terrain, model animation and etc etc. Which naturally make it as challenging as other type of map to be develop as well.

Click to expand...

In a map you have all those considerations and even more.
Not to talk about campaigns, a good campaign is the maximum some one can reach.

Maps, Cinematics, whatever should be rated on there own. If we use your method let's rate the best maps 3/5 because they are not as good as the game of warcraft 3. Then let's rate warcraft 3 the game a lower grade because it is not as good as a PC and so on.

Don't take this the wrong way, but just because something is not as hard to make as something not related doesn't make the first one bad. You can't judge how good something is if you compare it to a thing that has entirely different parameters.

I agree here,but what about maps,how do you define a good map?

Click to expand...

!!! read my last posts I am tired of making definitions.

Maps, Cinematics, whatever should be rated on there own. If we use your method let's rate the best maps 3/5 because they are not as good as the game of warcraft 3. Then let's rate warcraft 3 the game a lower grade because it is not as good as a PC and so on.

Click to expand...

You are making a fallacy called "snow ball". One thing will not bring the other they are not related in that way.

Don't take this the wrong way, but just because something is not as hard to make as something not related doesn't make the first one bad. You can't judge how good something is if you compare it to a thing that has entirely different parameters.

Click to expand...

Afaik and correct me if I am wrong, a cinematic is a map.
If you guys want to distinguish cinematics than you should create a "bag" for maps and a different bag for "cinematics". This way the two of them wouldn't be together. I agree there should be two bags, but since THW only has one, I try making my opinion as balanced as I can from my point of view.
Sure this is a lot better than some maps out there, and now that I think of it, maybe 4/5 would be a better rate. But if you don't like my ratings than you should see the spells and the maps I rate. Looking "nice" is not all I consider when evaluating.
And yes, 4/5 is the best I can give a cinematic, when it is in the same bag with maps. Why ? I already explained it.
Although your frustration is understandable my opinion will change no more. The only reason I gave this 3/5 is because it lacks many things, one of them is that the story line got corrupted. So, the hero was in prison telling his story to Rowena. Than Rowena leaves. Shouldn't she return so he could continue the story ?? (at least?). This is merely an example... there are more, but I don't really have no time to make posts saying everything on my head.

Flame_Phoenix said:

Shouldn't she return so he could continue the story ?? (at least?).

Click to expand...

Well, he continues telling the story, but it isn't so direct this time to avoid confusion as to who is telling it. The reason why there is no intro scene in which she returns is because it would get old to put that scene at the start of every chapter(however, she will appear in part 3 in this position to re-evaluate the existence of the prison background).

The story didn't go bad in any way.

And no, I am not that frustrated about this. I just asked you to justify it (and I have yet to receive an answer), nothing more.

And no, I am not that frustrated about this. I just asked you to justify it (and I have yet to receive an answer), nothing more.

Click to expand...

How many more answers do you want from me ?
If you don't accept them that's one thing, but you can't denny the fact I already justified myself a lot ...

Well, I understand why you reduced the grade by 1 - because it's a cinematic, but I don't understand why you reduced by another 1.

Well, I understand why you reduced the grade by 1 - because it's a cinematic, but I don't understand why you reduced by another 1.

Click to expand...

Because, as I already said, I also think the first one had a better structure for the first viewer.
I wish this could be 1-10, my evaluation would have certainly be more precise, but with 1-5, that's all I have to give.

Let's hope the 3rd is better.

Amazing work... 5/5 and +rep

Good things
-a lot more action then in part 1
-more new story events than in part 1
-good effects while running away form poison gas.
-I was very surprised when I checked your map with editor and found out from what you made the ship [ship itself deserves + rep ]
-I didn't expected that kind of ending.

Bad things
-voice of pirate captain was horrible. Others could fit...
-those flying things didn't look good flying in same height. Making 2 or 3 extra with different height levels could look better
-the very end was kinda rushed. skeletons just went to the ship and at the next moment all pirates were gone without a fight. That place asked for some evil background music too.

The First part was realy good,now I'm watching the second one.

Flame_Phoenix said:

Cinematics should never get more points than advanced maps (which use JASS and vJASS) mainly because they are in most cases made in GUI and are a lot easier to create ....

Anyway good cinematic though.

Click to expand...

A cinematic must be rated on different areas than a map

Seriously, its like watching a movie. Do you downrate movies because they don't allow you to have any control over what happens in them? No, I didn't think so. (Also watch Wall-E)

Cinematics must be rated on how much they immerse the viewer, how well they use their resources, the lighting, the moods of the setting, everything that goes on. Also, they should be rated on the sounds used and everything like that. And away from the visual and the audio, they must also be rated upon their storyline, how well they present it, and above all, how good the story actually is. They may not be as technical as other forms of Warcraft mapmakery, but they should still be respected for what they are and judged accordingly

Flame_Phoenix said:

How many more answers do you want from me ?
If you don't accept them that's one thing, but you can't denny the fact I already justified myself a lot ...

Click to expand...

Yeah, you tried to justify yourself. Unfortunately, you're trying to justify yourself judging a movie with the standards you'd subject a game to. You're pretty much saying "Y'know, Psycho isn't that good a thriller, I mean, who cares about all the direction and stuff, it didn't have wicked sweet special effects and stuff like that"

In summery, You fail. You are a miserable failure of a reviewer trying to justify yourself judging an apple with the same specifications you'd judge an orange


Anywho, guess what time it is kiddies? Its REVIEW TIME!

So, part two of the Lone Panther. Let's just get right to business, shall we?

What Mecheon Liked:

The terrain, as before, is nice and well constructed, and this time managed to avoid the clipping problems as seen in the first episode
The use of atmospheric sounds to alert you to the various monstrosities of the island before they came into sight was a nice touch, however could be improved upon
Very nice use of models. Pyramidhead's Silent Hill 4 2-headed baby thing especially

What Mecheon Disliked:

Yay, my favourite part

Okay, now this is going to be odd, but I didn't dislike ALL of the voice acting this time. Sadly, there was only 2 cases, and that's because they were the ones that showed some emotion (Pirate goon who got killed) or because the lack of emotion actually worked (Spiritelf guy)
Rest of the voices? Still bland. Still unemotional. I was especially disappointed in the pirate captain, because I could see some promise in his lines, but... Damn, no emotion at all! He needed sarcasm or something!
A few models seemed unnecessary. Like Olof's excellent undead Naga skin. Sure, its a great skin and all, but... The Naga didn't do anything. I was waiting for them to come back later or something but... They didn't. They just appeared, walked around, and never came back. Bit of a waste, especially considering what screentime the Locust got. Even the Abomination came back at the end, but nothing from the Naga. I feel they would have worked at the ending scene with the skeletons, but eh
On animations, I noticed that the main character tended to "flick" every now and again. Yeah, bit of a moot point, but still annoying
Dialogue was still a bit odd in points
Pacing. In the last one I commended you on your pacing, however here it didn't work so well. There was too much exposition and not enough stuff inbetween it to break it up. I admit, the end part with the spirit? Good exposition. Having 3 seperate chats with the pirate? Bad
The dying man sound being played for... Seemingly no reason. By the end there, this started to annoy me, seriously
The end actually. He's gotten the powerful sword, he can do stuff, so... Suddenly he appears outside. Huh. Why not have him raise the sword into the sky (Proudmore's/Paladin's spell animation) and call down some lightning that resurrects skeletons from the ground or something? It just seemed a bit... Rushed. (Incidentally, this was the one part some emotion was shown from his voice acting, with the evil laugh)
Speaking of the sword, the god damn sword was floating a fair distance from his hand. A noticable distance. Okay, node editing isn't as well known as just modifying verticies, I know, but still, that was incredibly annoying, seeing this sword floating there

Final Thoughts:
Some problems from the original were fixed up, but the biggy is still there. Seriously, the voice acting. I could handle maybe one or two characters with a lack of emotion, but when the whole cast has it? It really detracts from the experience as a whole and hampers the entire thing. As I mention, this does have promise, however this time it has, yet again, missed the mark

Um can i ask when the third series of The Lone Panther is gonna come out because im waiting for soooooooooo long and i know it may seem like i am impatient but im really waiting for very long and after watching this second part i was sooooo excited when i finish and im waiting for soooooo long plz do it faster if u can

Love all your cinematics and this new one really rocks! You keep amazing me with your skill in cinematics. Cant wait for episode 3. Any info on that yet..?

Well, my exams have ended(finally!) Now, I believe I should start working on the third chapter first thing after New Year so it's safe to say it'll be here by the end of January.

AWESOME! This thing is creepy and has great terrain!10/10

Cinematic is great.
-Terrain is excellent, it really gives nice atmosphere
-Story is excellent but at sometimes you went far ahead like the part of the skeleton army.You didn't show from where they came or how they killed all of the pirates.
-effects are excellent, I liked when those mushroom things started to fire at characters with poisons.
-Voices aren't that good but still better than no voices. right?
-Mechon is right about Dead Naga, you should have used them more.(well he is right about all)
I will give you 4/5 because there is no 4.5
Can't wait for next one.

CMarket said:

Well, my exams have ended(finally!) Now, I believe I should start working on the third chapter first thing after New Year so it's safe to say it'll be here by the end of January.

Click to expand...

Awesome!! Hope it's going to be as good as this one or even better

Nice!

This cinematic is awesome!! 5/5

Very nice video

Hooray! Sci-fi cinematic! But sadly (in my opinion), it didn't beat the other sect cinematic you did (that one which was sci-fi too ). But still this deserves 10/10.

Btw, I wonder why pirate captain listened like a bot...

Sigh,its still not here yet i could've waited one month but ...two months is really too much for me,im going crazy just waiting for the third part.

Please hurry with lone phanter 3

What is the connection of the title, Lone Panther, in the story? The panther is used just only once, in the first part.

You will see. The title is a reference to the main character.

CMarket, do what you do best. Surprise us.

redmarine said:

CMarket, do what you do best. Surprise us.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm sure you'll see that every next chapter will be what you least expect it to be

CMarket said:

Oh, I'm sure you'll see that every next chapter will be what you least expect it to be

Click to expand...

Hehe awesome. After you've completed all the chapters and the series you should try to make a machinima movie out of it. Perhaps using World of WarCraft.

Best . Cinematic . Ever. 5/5

Awesome. I love the horror-like movies and dead islands... This was awesome. And *SPOLIER* that two-baby-headed thing was really scary! *SPOILER*
Can't wait for the Broken Belief.
My rating: 1.000.000/1.000.000

Ordworse said:

Awesome. I love the horror-like movies and dead islands... This was awesome. And *SPOLIER* that two-baby-headed thing was really scary! *SPOILER*
Can't wait for the Broken Belief.
My rating: 1.000.000/1.000.000

Click to expand...

I don't understand these people that rate like a million.

Mechmap said:

I don't understand these people that rate like a million.

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1.000.000/1.000.000 is the same as 5/5. He just wants to show how awesome he thinks the cinematic is.

Hmm, CMarket? Are you still continuing this project?

The project has not been abandoned. It's paused.

The main reason is that I'm waiting for two voice actors to finish with their exams which should be soon. Also, there isn't a point in finding new voice actors as currently I, myself, am busy with school as well and have no time to compress, import and adjust the voices. Hopefully, after the exams end Lone Panther 3 will be out.

Sorry for the wait guys, but school has been hell for the last 2 weeks. Got to pull through.

CMarket said:

The project has not been abandoned. It's paused.

The main reason is that I'm waiting for two voice actors to finish with their exams which should be soon. Also, there isn't a point in finding new voice actors as currently I, myself, am busy with school as well and have no time to compress, import and adjust the voices. Hopefully, after the exams end Lone Panther 3 will be out.

Sorry for the wait guys, but school has been hell for the last 2 weeks. Got to pull through.

Click to expand...

It's okay. Good luck with your exams.