16:29, 5th Nov 2013
Orcnet: Reviewed

Legal_Ease;2425959 said:

The Hive Workshop Official

Map Reviewer: Legal_Ease Map Name: Rise of the Sin'dorei Map Author: Feathermoon Comments and Scores Originality This map is not very original but is one of the better Altered Melee maps I've seen. It has the sense that wa666r hand a hand in it. Though not original, its pretty clean and plays well. So nothing too bad here. Score: 23/100 Presentation The description is still a fail. It contains enough information but lacks any presentation quality. No screenshots, no color, no boxes. Bad bad bad. Sorry but it is. Please fix this. We are the face of the Hive and should put our best on for the masses. This is not the best you can do. Its almost so bad enough this map should be rejected, but its a pretty good map, so I won't vote like that. Score: 12/100 Design This is an Altered melee map with a dialog menu that let's you choose if you want to play the alternate race at the start. The map is Blizzard, so not points for terrain. The races seem very balanced which is a good start. The tooltips I saw all had appropriate text and proper spelling, though the description and some of the text in did not. All Icons were properly used with DISBTN and the selection of Blood Elve skins and models was really nice. Good Choices. Where this map starts to miss the mark is spells. Some are good but others are confusing or generic and don't match the unit or the icon. This is not really a problem but it could be improved. A great altered melee should feel like Blizzard made it and have perfectly matching icons, models and spells. This one comes pretty close and isn't half bad. Score: 84/100 Terrain Blizzard did a great job making this terrain, it is even and balanced. Props to Blizzard. Feathermoon did well picking it to match the races though, so nothing bad here. Score: 49/100 Triggers All trigger seem to be working though I didn't run any checks or open it in WE. Spells for Blood Elven heroes I used all worked, though they seemed weak. The dialog menu worked though which is good. Score: 68/100 Object Data Here's where this map really shines. The skins and models are all really nice and the choices were very tactful/ Some of the Icons could be better but as for the units, very very niice. Score: 94/100 Gameplay Standard melee style with altered units and spell. Pretty standard stuff here. But it seemed balanced and was nice enough, so ... GOOD WORK! Score: 76/100 I would change the icons that don't fit with the spell. For example, the flare Icon should not be used for some fire bolt spell and firebolt Icon should not be used for something else. Use new Icons for new spells, unless they are really close to the old spell. Also a heroes icons should all match in color scheme. Some of yours don't. Also, the spells don't all seem to fit. I seemed like you ran out of ideas and just picked some random stardard spells for some of the units. Its not terrible but could be improved. You should learn to import spells and use more of the GUI spells from the Spells Forum. These guys make amazing spells. Also, Please read http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tutorial-submission-283/how-add-screenshot-your-map-description-241054/#post2416435 I vote for Approval! Site Rules Need help with triggers/memory leaks? Make a thread in the Triggers & Scripts Section. Tutorials Final Score: 58/100 3/5 Vote for Approval Free Screenshot screenshot Contact: (Visitor Message) / (Private Message) / (Map Reviewers)[/center]

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Read the Map Submission Rules, you need a good description and presentation for the map.


RECOMMENDED LINKS:
All Mappers
General Resources Rules By Ralle
Map Submission Rules By Vengeancekael
Creating Dynamic Waters By Pinzu
Melee Mappers
Making Melee Maps by -Kobas-
Altered Melee Mappers
Making Full Working Custom Races by Interceptors
Altered Melee Anti "Revealing Opponent" Hack By Retera

I think it still have bugs I don't now why all import icon doesn't have disable icon don't now what problem.Please tell me if find any bugs.In multiplayer if u want to play as blood elf call your friend not to choose human because I don't now why it will crash,I will change lots of things during the next update.

I hereby force you to continue your work of the map in the Map Development thread due to your map being buggy or full of leak triggers.

Please read the http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/beta-rules-information-710/map-submission-rules-228244/ next time.

Fix map already & update already

You have 2 options.

Tell orcnet or Re Upload it. Before you do.all that, tell what did you fix.

I have fixed many bugs.Change some spell balanced some spells.

People can't download Rejected Maps, you need to make a Map Development Thread for your Map at Map Development Forum so people can submit feedback.

Me replace with new map now.Please put it back at pending.

Description still lacking.
Use -Kobas- Description Template (Some BB Codes Skill Needed) (Not Recommended) or Vengeancekael's Description Generator (Needs Java - No BB Codes Skill Needed) (Recommended) to make nice description, the current one isn't approvable, especially you need screenshots, features, credits and they need to be organized well.

I have update and fix the map starting wont have lots of Worker and Town Hall in begining,Choose High Elf change to Blood Elf,reduce Prayer damage of Blood Knight,Archers and Sky Guards multishot ability replace with Burning Arrows,Blood Mage have more epic Sphere,Liutenants replace Firebolt with Feedback and Fix trigger bugs.

Daffa the Mage Review on Rise of the Sin'dorei by Feathermoon

PRESENTATION
Currently, the map only has little presentation + worse, it uses no BB Codes making it look ugly, I recommend to take a look at http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tools-560/map-description-generator-1-2-a-224558/ or http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/miscellaneous-tutorials-456/map-description-templates-171659/
1/5 - Unacceptable

GAMEPLAY + BALANCES + BUGS
First off, some Starting Locations are a bit away from mines, this can cause issue for NE, fix it.
Second, Poison Arrows icon [Ranger General] doesn't suits well with the actual effect [Poison Arrow is red colored?] and also, why does it has no Manacost? it's unfair.
Third, Why did Blood Elf has 2 Workers? isn't one type is enough? Both of them are the same except the second one can build less buildings. If you still want to worker, make one worker can only harvest gold while the other can only harvest lumbers
Fourth, Make archers has no mana until Burning Arrows researched, so they make more sense.
Fifth, Hotkeys aren't shown in spells, building and units data, making it hard to make quick build order.
Sixth, Phoenix can resurrect, means with the Phoenix item, you can make Phoenixes Support [3 Phoenix/Player] that can really cause some real massive damage without proper counter.
Seven, some Tooltip are more detailed than others [take Healer and Warlock for example], and some tooltip seems unedited.
Eight, Why did Cloak of Flames become more Expensive than Phoenix Egg item?
Ninth, Why some Building can get Armor Upgrade while some others can't?
Tenth, why some unit abilities have [Level 1] in their info?
Eleventh, Why Decimator's Weapon is Strength of the Moon? Players can't research that.
That's all Annoying Stuff I could find.

I don't need to explain the gameplay as it's just almost the same as the usual Melee Map with Blood Elf as difference. But with this amount of flaws, it can get quite annoying. I'm not sure if I should say this can be approved in this state, but it's acceptable to me.

3/5 - Acceptable

TRIGGERING
The Coding is very inefficient, although it doesn't cause lag to me, but very slow or old computers, they might get severe lag during Init [as all triggers you made refer to beginning of the game]. Try to use arrayed Variables and Loops, they are less laggy and seriously? you use

• Do Nothing

? Have I told you to completely avoid that action? Clean the triggers, there aren't many to cleans, it shouldn't take a long time.

2/5 - Lacking

FINAL RATING
2/5 - Lacking - Needs Fix until Updated


RECOMMENDED LINKS:
All Mappers
General Resources Rules By Ralle
Map Submission Rules By Vengeancekael
Creating Dynamic Waters By Pinzu
Adding Screenshot to Map Description by Legal_Ease
Melee Mappers
Making Melee Maps by -Kobas-
Altered Melee Mappers
Making Full Working Custom Races by Interceptors
Altered Melee Anti "Revealing Opponent" Hack By Retera

CONTACT ME
If you have suggestions, complaints or anything regarding my review, you can directly contact me by any of these :
PM Daffa the Mage
Leave a Visitor Message for Daffa the Mage (Requires Friendship)
Notes :
1. I recommend sending the message directly to my PM as I will prioritize them over the rest.
2. In Reviewing, I never rate maps with emotions [and all my rating are pure], if it's low rating you get, means it's low rating you get. If it's high rating you get, it's high rating you get. I'm sick of people who ask me for toleration in rating just because of friendship.

Don't know how to make archers and sky guards with no mana until researched.I will fix the tooltips and the bugs.Will change the pheonix can't be reborn also make Ashes of A'lar(Phoenix) item more expensive.The other worker is powerful lumber harvester can collect more lumber and build Farstrider Lodge..I eill fix the building can get number I will also add more unique spells for heroes.Will fix starting location.I will fix poison arrow have manacost and cannot find poison arrow model.Anyway thanks for feedback I will update after fixing this things.

Updated
Fix tooltips and triggers now u can't choose as blood elven race.If u choose human u became blood elf.Added Lancers.Change summon hawk of rangers to marksmanship also Sunreaver Archmagi change summon lava spawn to blood fork.Fix Arcane Decimator upgrade now use strenght of the sun.Reduce damage and armour of some overpower units.Pheonix item become more expensive.Change spellbreaker to spellbreaker with keal head.Added wounding lance upgrade.Fix Starting Locations.Change lieutenants to melee.Thats what I fix.

Fix the description.

Updated fix wounding lance upgrade requirements change leap icon

nice team
3/5

Thanks for feedback im will jupdate latest version tommorow
Blood Mage will change spells
Warlock spell change
Sound Changes
Fix hero doesn't require food bug
Change food limit to 150
Many more things I have fix but I forgot them

This will take 4/5 from me....but i just wanted some legendary items xDD.......I suggect to add ''Dark Summning'' to blood elf mage...that would help us to summon our lost units from being stuck /.....like i have been goddamn god stucked by some night elf base and i don't have resoruce to build the army again :>;;;also he have some importances items i need it very much

What mage ? There is Ashes of A'lar that summons phoenix defenses are from farms summon the Thallasian Defenses the farms add mana as well i will change orb of fire to orb of phoenix in next update they will be many changes

Nice !!!!!!!!!!!

What ?

I like the way you pick icons and models :3

Thanks Weng

I loVE Ur map feather i rate it 5/5

davidandre28 said:

I loVE Ur map feather i rate it 5/5

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Thanks

I support the addition of new races.

Try using one of the Map Description templates.

spell breaker costume is awesome,
beautiful.. you bring the bloodelf in the new age!
you done awesome,
for the silver hand :O
sorry,
Anarlah Be'lore xD

Nice map!

may i suggest a troll race, they directly conflict against the high elves and remain a pain when they become blood elves

maybe after i finish gnoll race

JCarrill0 said:

Greetings Sunreaver,
A buddy of mine recently tested this map. We both Love to play Melee/Altered Melee maps. We played this today on Battle.net, so here are a few things I would suggest:

1. While the Custom UI is nice, it lacks a few key things we both like with the default races ones. such as the command card should have a grid, and also when you max out the building que, the UI is a lil glitchy. We found it just easier to just choose another random race, and select Blood Elves as the playable race.
2. We played against 2 Easy Ai computers, I guess this is a Lumber based race since within the first 2 mins of the game, while the easy Ai had a barracks, alter and a farm, we only were allowed an alter/farm or Barracks/Farm. This maps it a bit unbalanced, but we worked around that.
3. The Hot keys are a bit messy, while some have no hotkeys at all, a good example is While I expected to build a Farm, I built an elven Forge instead. I would suggest Farm have a hotkey, I will be building those more then just 1/2 Forges per game. Even if its not the F hotkey, we need one (I do recommend F for farms btw, perhaps o or e for the Forge)
4. Some units should be scaled back to normal. we the Blood Elf Spell breaker is almost the same size of the heroes, while every other unit is not, plus they use the same model as the humans Spell Break, yet they are scaled correctly (aka default).
5. I beilive I read in the description area (Quest log) this race is strongest as a spell caster race. Have you tested the balance of this vs the rest of the Melee units or was this race ment to be played 1v1 all Blood Elves?
6. My buddy used the Ranger/Blood Mage Combo, while I used the Blood Knight/Archmage. While the archmage was my second hero, I pretty much solo'd a teir 3 human faction with just the archmage. after the retreated back to base and the rest of my forces got to the Enemy base we all got owned, btu again the archmage was the sole survivor and still managed to kill all the peasants and the castle. She pretty OP (maybe she is ment that way).
7. My buddy Loves the OP skills of the Blood Mage btw, he solo'd a demon Hunter of the same level with his ults! (Keep in mind DH are hero killers). Might take a look at the balance a bit.
8. I see you have 2 workers, just have the 12th building. Could it be possible to scale the number of units and buildings down to just the standards defaults? I mean no disrespect, they are great stuff, but unless this is a BE vs BE , this isn't very fun.
9. Upgrade range Weapon, and Armor move when you upgrade melee weapon and armor. (the buttons move. This can be fixed buy editing the X & Y research buttons in the object editor).
10. Last one is i read these guys only regen during the day correct? My units did regen non-stop, was that because of a hero, or is this a bug?

I think this was very well thought of, and very much well done for an altered Melee. If only you have a Custom Campaign to along with it as well.

PS- I know The hive has a Blood Elf Campaign and perhaps if you 2 got together, along with the other map maker who does High Elf/Blood Elf race maps, you guys could make an awesome altered melee or even campaign, but after reading comments, I am not sure if that will ever be possible. I would just love to see the best of all 3

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1.The Spellbreaker models is scaled properly and its not the same model it is using a custom model with a head of the Blood Magi plus green eyes look properly
2.Maybe u should play against insane AI they are very challenging
3.About the hotkeys and those upgrade bugs i wil fix later i am so so so so so busy with school work after i am free i'll fix them
4.About the Regeneration u have use the Blood Knight he gives the Regeneration Aura(Sun's Aura) that allows them to regenerate at night
5.Sunreaver Archmage and Blood Mage very POWERFUL no i don't think so i won't change them and they are balanced.

Sunreaver said:

1.The Spellbreaker models is scaled properly and its not the same model it is using a custom model with a head of the Blood Magi plus green eyes look properly

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The reason I said that is because when the AI used the spell breaker its texture was the default setting. I misspoke and said model instead of textures, I apologize.

Sunreaver said:

2.Maybe u should play against insane AI they are very challenging

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I would tend to agree, but unlike Melee AI, if I don't put more on lumber then I would normally for any other race, I'm screwed. that or buy a goblin shredder. Balance wise 5-6 worker are for lumber, but for this new race you need . I will continue to play it an find a work-around. Just doesn't seem balanced when its not needed for any other race.

Sunreaver said:

3.About the hotkeys and those upgrade bugs i wil fix later i am so so so so so busy with school work after i am free i'll fix them

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I hope to see your new version soon. We do love the map, just needs Balance fixes. Try making a AI for the custom race...then you'll see why I said its unbalanced lol

Sunreaver said:

4.About the Regeneration u have use the Blood Knight he gives the Regeneration Aura(Sun's Aura) that allows them to regenerate at night

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Ah ok that's why, So far my fav but I need to learn how to use him more.

Sunreaver said:

5.Sunreaver Archmage and Blood Mage very POWERFUL no i don't think so i won't change them and they are balanced.

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Well, I can only make suggestions not any demands. While it is your map, I will respect your decision, but stand by my statement. Those heroes are overpowered. When we play matches online, we have to agree to One of those heroes each, cant use both because who ever uses both always wins. TOO POWERFUL.

Overall, while unbalanced in my honest opinion, it's still rather enjoyable. It would be better if the race was balanced when you faced the other 4 races, but as long as you do BEvsBE it seems balanced. I do look forward to more updates as this is one of my favorite Alt melee Maps.

PS - how about smaller maps? 1v1 2v2 FFA maps?

Thanks for informing me of an update, I plan to review it soon (probably tonight)

EDIT: Still called version 1.4? File size is not much difference.
whats in the change log?

Read the Change log also the 1.4 i haven't change it for nearly 5 months another update is coming too with new icons

Sunreaver said:

Read the Change log also the 1.4 i haven't change it for nearly 5 months another update is coming too with new icons

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So you made a new version, and the file size is different, but there is no real changes besides a few minor Bug fixes I pointed out?
Love the hotkey changes BTW, a lot easier to fight the comp when using hotkeys!

shouldn't that be ver 1.4a (and have a list of the updates you made?)

Sorry for the Double Post

Ok so in 1.5 I found some new stuff for ya that you may consider fixing

• While playing a match where I was fast teching I noticed i can research long bows, yet I couldn't make archers yet (Fix tech tree requirements for Long bows)
• Spell Breaker & Lancer models size is still huge! (downscale them please!) they are bigger then the heroes!
• Cavalier is a bit big too (same size as heroes), well it is using a hero model, maybe downscale it some say .90)
• Why does Arcane Glaive require a Saw mill? I don't understand its purpose of requiring this. It already requires a tier 3 upgrade.. so...?
• Why does the warlock model have a hero glow? (remove hero glow from Warlock)
• check the movement for the Hawkstrider Knights, they move faster then their feet moves (Object editor, change art animation walk/run speeds)
• Unit Sounds: Swordsmen has same unit sound as the blood Mage (who irocnally use Kael'thalas). I suggest the swordsmen use their default unit sound (HighelfSwordsmen), perhaps reset the Blood Mage to default as well, but I do know you use the ranger general for blood mage (I woold suggest using Blood Mage for BM, and Ranger General as Kael'thalas).
• Does Farstrider not get the same upgrade as archers? (ie; long bows), I figured they would.

Still some balance tweeks when vers the other races. Comp can still beat ya unless you fast tech, then you can become OP real quick.

05/05/2014 EDIT: SO I opened your map and found a trigger you do not need to use:

• Players
  • Events
    • Map initialization
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • -------- Limit of custom heros and creates a group to show the dialog only to the Human Players --------
    • Player Group - Pick every player in (All players matching (((Matching player) controller) Equal to User)) and do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Player Group - Add (Picked player) to PlayersUsers
        • Player - Limit training of Ranger General to 1 for (Picked player)
        • Player - Limit training of Blood Mage to 1 for (Picked player)
        • Player - Limit training of Blood Knight to 1 for (Picked player)
        • Player - Limit training of Sunreaver Archmage to 1 for (Picked player)

I am a newb at triggers, but I do specialize in Object editor and changing the gameplay constants is another specialty of mine. You already have them added into the gameplay constants, so the trigger is no longer needed, however you could add the 3 missing neutral heroes "Goblin Tinkerer, Goblin Alchemist, & Firelord" and don't forget to add them into the Tavern as well. They are currently missing in your map.

Those models will turn ugly if they are scale down thats why i don't want to fix them because i tried it before
If u don't use this triggers in your map your hero will have a no limit bug if u don't belive try it yourself
The heroes are in the Tavern maybe u make new melee maps thats why u don't notice them
About Farstriders i don't want them to learn long bows they will become an unstoppeble force beacuse they use that upgrade last time
About Kael sound of Blood Mage i won't change it and i will only change Swordmans and Liuetenant sound
Lastly i can't edit warlock modelwithout permission

Sunreaver said:

Those models will turn ugly if they are scale down thats why i don't want to fix them because i tried it before

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I wasn't aware of that. Just looks weird when a unit is bigger then the hero.

Sunreaver said:

If u don't use this triggers in your map your hero will have a no limit bug if u don't belive try it yourself

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I tried what you said. My altered melee maps works fine without the trigger, it still limits my hero to one per player. I did however try making a new map to show you, and I did come across this bug, so I see the issue. The trigger is fine as a fail-safe.

Sunreaver said:

The heroes are in the Tavern maybe u make new melee maps thats why u don't notice them

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Hmmm, I am playing wc3 patch 1.26a, So I got some proof

Sunreaver said:

About Farstriders i don't want them to learn long bows they will become an unstoppeble force beacuse they use that upgrade last time

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So it's a balance issue. After playing this map on plenty of times pn Battle.net with a few friends of mine who still play, I can assure you, the reason I asked is because they do need it, but once again these are suggestions, not demands.

Sunreaver said:

About Kael sound of Blood Mage i won't change it and i will only change Swordmans and Liuetenant sound

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The choice is yours, I can only make suggestions.

Sunreaver said:

Lastly i can't edit warlock modelwithout permission

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As long as you give credit who created it, you can use the model for whatever you like. I'm pretty sure they will not get upset for you removing the heroglow.mdx below the custom model since its being used as a non-hero unit.


EDIT: I wanted to add, I for one love your map and would love to continue playing it, but again this is your map, not mine. you make the changes you want. while I can merely make suggestion, I however will not tell you what you MUST do.
At the end of the day, its a descent map that still need balance changes and fixes. I still give it 3/5

About the Warlock model i have already ask the creator and he does not give me any permission to edit the model so i don't wanna make him angry so i din't remove the hero glow.
U can edit this map with my permmision no need of Credits but please sent the map for me to try if u edit it.
Also if u are intrested please try my other maps

Also a version update:
Yeah i found out the Tavern Heroes are not availeble i have added them
Change sounds of Swordsman and Liuetenants
Fix some stuff i forgot

Sunreaver said:

About the Warlock model i have already ask the creator and he does not give me any permission to edit the model so i don't wanna make him angry so i din't remove the hero glow.
U can edit this map with my permmision no need of Credits but please sent the map for me to try if u edit it.
Also if u are intrested please try my other maps

Also a version update:
Yeah i found out the Tavern Heroes are not availeble i have added them
Change sounds of Swordsman and Liuetenants
Fix some stuff i forgot

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Cool, I'm testing it now.
SUGGESTIONS:

1. When you make any edits, please make a new version of the map.(ie: If the old one was 1.5, change this new one to 1.5a for version edits)
2. Put what version this is in the Description or Map Name
3. If this is a melee map, maybe have a Melee Loading screen instead of custom.
4. Create some AI for the Custom Race.
5. Instead of having a second Worker, perhaps use an "advanced build" option. There is several ways to do it.

I would like to see how you play this map. Perhaps a 1v1 on Battle.net sometime. Your as your custom race vs a standard race, perhaps me as Random. I want you to see these balances issues first hand.

Looking good bud!

EDIT: I see you just updated version 1.5 again (this being the third version of 1.5, so it should be v 1.5b) but I have no idea what you changed.