1. The selection circle of Overlords is too big. If it is intentional, make the models bigger to fit those circles.
2. I think the overlords should start in different sides of the map, not so near each other to engage from the start.
3. Goal Oriented is a passive ability with an active icon. You can make it look passive with this: Button Manager v1.8.2
4. Stealing a spell should replace the current stolen one not leave you with the one you stole permanently.
5. Not sure if only the hero/overlord should kill a unit to change owner. The transformed units of the player should be able to do it to. Maybe a micro strategy?

It's a nice and simple map which could make use of more content to diversify the gameplay.

Approved.


If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
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First I'd like to thank you deepstrasz, for reviewing my map!

Secondly I'd like to reply to some of your pointers.

deepstrasz said:

The selection circle of Overlords is too big. If it is intentional, make the models bigger to fit those circles.

Click to expand...

I Intentionally made the selection circle large, to underline the importance of the unit (I know it isn't the usual practice).
However, it's possible that the size might trick the player, making him/her think that it reflects on the unit's collision size. I'll look into it, and play around with the selection circle and see what can be made.

deepstrasz said:

I think the overlords should start in different sides of the map, not so near each other to engage from the start.

Click to expand...

This is something I've thought about when creating the map. My conclusion is that it contributes way too much RNG to the map. As the monsters have set spawn positions, spawning on the opposite side of the map from your favourite unit type could be a horrendous experience. (Please enlighten me if I've missed an aspect to this)

deepstrasz said:

Goal Oriented is a passive ability with an active icon. You can make it look passive with this: Button Manager v1.8.2

Click to expand...

You're sure as hell right about that! Will be fixed in the next update, and thanks for the wonderful resource!

deepstrasz said:

Stealing a spell should replace the current stolen one not leave you with the one you stole permanently.

Click to expand...

This is a subjective design question, which I'll happily reply to with why I've designed the ability like I have.

It all chalks down to strategic depth in my opinion, by making the consequence permanent* it creates this dilemma of when to use the ability.
(*Permanent here means for the remainder of the round)

Consider the following examples:

deepstrasz said:

Not sure if only the hero/overlord should kill a unit to change owner. The transformed units of the player should be able to do it to. Maybe a micro strategy?

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly as you have stated, this is a feature to increase the skillgap between bad players (who might fail last-hitting) and good players (who micros correctly while creeping).

Lastly, I'd love it if you explained what keeps this map from getting a higher rating outside of the pointers given. Either way, thanks for your review.

Verdicten said:

1: I Intentionally made the selection circle large, to underline the importance of the unit (I know it isn't the usual practice).

Click to expand...

You can add hero glow instead: How to add Hero Glow without Modeling

Verdicten said:

2: This is something I've thought about when creating the map. My conclusion is that it contributes way too much RNG to the map. As the monsters have set spawn positions, spawning on the opposite side of the map from your favourite unit type could be a horrendous experience. (Please enlighten me if I've missed an aspect to this)

Click to expand...

Well, a randomly generated spawn would do. Favouritism shouldn't be the case. You could even randomize the monster spawn points

Verdicten said:

It all chalks down to strategic depth in my opinion, by making the consequence permanent* it creates this dilemma of when to use the ability.

Click to expand...

But you'd have to know what ability the unit you're going to steal from has and that means trying out each time in a different match.

Verdicten said:

This ability disincentivizes individual playstyle, as everyone would use the ability the same way.

Click to expand...

The same way? Well, then what do you think will stop players from just getting the best ability from the start anyway every time? In my opinion, dynamism is better and creates diversity. Keeping it static means a more cautious approach, economically going for what is best overall not at the moment and options will be less and more repetitive.

Verdicten said:

Lastly, I'd love it if you explained what keeps this map from getting a higher rating outside of the pointers given. Either way, thanks for your review.

Click to expand...

Well, overall, it's simple and founded on regular Warcraft III material (abilities, units, play style etc.). It's just my view. Other people are free to see differently.

deepstrasz said:

You can add hero glow instead: How to add Hero Glow without Modeling

Click to expand...

Great idea, I'll do that, thanks for the resource again!

deepstrasz said:

Well, a randomly generated spawn would do. Favouritism shouldn't be the case. You could even randomize the monster spawn points

Click to expand...

While I see your point, the spawns are actually randomized, it's just that all of them are in the middle.

I think it improves the early game, as you can try to snipe other peoples wolves etc. I've toyed with the idea of randomizing monster spawns, but that removes the routing aspect as I've mentioned earlier. I think making routes are what differentiate really good players from good players, and I'd like to keep that.

deepstrasz said:

But you'd have to know what ability the unit you're going to steal from has and that means trying out each time in a different match.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily, if you read the ability of any unit the one with the "[Defining Ability]" tag is the ability you will steal. Also, you can't steal from neutral hostile, so more often than not you will own the unit you're stealing from.

deepstrasz said:

The same way? Well, then what do you think will stop players from just getting the best ability from the start anyway every time? In my opinion, dynamism is better and creates diversity. Keeping it static means a more cautious approach, economically going for what is best overall not at the moment and options will be less and more repetitive.

Click to expand...

People can't really start with the best ability, as someone has to have killed the unit you're stealing from.

As the Overlord is weak in the beginning of the match, you can't really get the best units until you've gotten stronger or amassed an army. Which leads you to consider taking a weaker ability at the start to snowball to lategame faster.

deepstrasz said:

Well, overall, it's simple and founded on regular Warcraft III material (abilities, units, play style etc.). It's just my view. Other people are free to see differently.

Click to expand...

Fair Enough, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Verdicten said:

Not necessarily, if you read the ability of any unit the one with the "[Defining Ability]" tag is the ability you will steal. Also, you can't steal from neutral hostile, so more often than not you will own the unit you're stealing from.

Click to expand...

Oh, yeah you're right. I forgot you had to convert the unit first.

Hey, tried out playing the map with 3 buddies and I had a blast. It felt highly rewarding to be able to face off against opponents even if you had fewer units and still come out on top if you managed to micro your troops well. I like the design you mentioned about taking the abilities from one of your units and being stuck with that choice for the rest of the match, it made you think hard about what you really needed.

It's by no means perfect though, and we ran into a few pretty annoying issues. Our biggest problem was with the round length, we had several rounds where one person would die early, and then the match would go on for 10-15 minutes because the other players ran around gaining power and just avoided fights against players with more units. Slows, stuns and entangles helped mitigate some of this, but it was still very easy for the fleeing player to sacrifice a couple of units to block off the attacker and run away, so adding something for the dead players to do while waiting, and adding some mechanic to force players to eventually fight each other to enforce the rounds to be significantly shorter would greatly improve the map in my mind.

There's a couple more nitpicks that we felt were worth mentioning. Firstly if all the abilities of the units could have their hotkeys standardized to their grid positioning, that'd help out new players a lot. We had two new WC3 players and two veterans, and it was much easier to use all the abilities for the veterans simply because they knew the hotkeys by heart (Speaking of hotkeys, the Spirit Walker Spirit Link ability says it's bound to T, but it didn't seem to work, it might be bugged). Secondly, the items felt a bit uninspired, none of them seemed to be all too useful. What I found myself really wanting was some kind of mana regeneration or movement speed buff. Also, if you have multiple units selected, the Overlord itself aren't always prioritized to be the first one in the unit group, depending on which other units you had. That was a bit awkward, having to tab around with the unit selection to get to him.

Lastly regarding the issue deepstrasz mentioned about players spawning near each other, personally I think that simply giving the players a short invisibility buff at the start should help alleviate that.

Overall, great map concept and good fun to play with friends that know what they're doing in WC3, but could use some work. Would love to see it getting more updates.