JC's Ancient Temple

mafe · Jan 10, 2022

So.... I can confirm from personal experience that "uploading maps online to not lose them" is a very sensible idea.

Now onto this map itself: It has more changes from LT than your Lordaeron-Summer version, but it still seem to me that it was created essentialy only with the "replace doodad" and "replace unit" options, and by changing a new tileset. Maybe you have spend quite some time about it, but nevertheless it is still quite basic. Yes I know Blizzard also released an Ice version of LT, but that map hes a few more gameplay-relevant difference from the Lordaeron-Summer-LT in terms of creep levels and itemdrops.

Also, some of the changes you did unfortunately make the map worse imo:
1. The pathing in the center is now very weird due to the canopy trees which leave gaps between them.
2. The central "temple" area now no longer looks like a temple due to the ground being dirt now.
3. Some of the new creepcamps are now arguably quite annoying to deal with, due to purge (satyrs at temple entrance), much more aoe (thunder lizards instead of golems). Both of this should primarily nerf humans.
4. Nobody like manaburn creeps. Just super anti-fun.

So again, this isnt quite worthy of being approved, sorry. Therefore map set to Useful/simple.

JCarrill0 · Jan 13, 2022

mafe said:
So.... I can confirm from personal experience that "uploading maps online to not lose them" is a very sensible idea.

Now onto this map itself: It has more changes from LT than your Lordaeron-Summer version, but it still seem to me that it was created essentialy only with the "replace doodad" and "replace unit" options, and by changing a new tileset. Maybe you have spend quite some time about it, but nevertheless it is still quite basic. Yes I know Blizzard also released an Ice version of LT, but that map hes a few more gameplay-relevant difference from the Lordaeron-Summer-LT in terms of creep levels and itemdrops.

Also, some of the changes you did unfortunately make the map worse imo:
1. The pathing in the center is now very weird due to the canopy trees which leave gaps between them.
2. The central "temple" area now no longer looks like a temple due to the ground being dirt now.
3. Some of the new creepcamps are now arguably quite annoying to deal with, due to purge (satyrs at temple entrance), much more aoe (thunder lizards instead of golems). Both of this should primarily nerf humans.
4. Nobody like manaburn creeps. Just super anti-fun.

So again, this isnt quite worthy of being approved, sorry. Therefore map set to Useful/simple.

Thank you very much for the review, when I did the map (so long ago), however a few things I would like to answer:

The pathing is the exact same since the LT has some missing trees and the gaps were in both Blizzard LT versions. This was intended use and I kept that tradition.
The traditional "Temple" should still be intact, however due to the ancient not everything remains, thus why dirt and fallen pillars are what now remain vs a Lost Temple where everything is still intact.
I did make sure this was a harder version of the previous incarnation (Lost Temple), so the mana burn, the thunder lizards, even the creeps on the island were definitely harder.

I hope this helps when coming to understand how/why the map was created, and I gladly accept the substandard rating as useful/simple. Thank you for the rating! (I really wasn't expecting much more then a 2 star rating)

mafe · Jan 13, 2022

JCarrill0 said:
Thank you very much for the review, when I did the map (so long ago), however a few things I would like to answer:

The pathing is the exact same since the LT has some missing trees and the gaps were in both Blizzard LT versions. This was intended use and I kept that tradition.

The traditional "Temple" should still be intact, however due to the ancient not everything remains, thus why dirt and fallen pillars are what now remain vs a Lost Temple where everything is still intact.

I did make sure this was a harder version of the previous incarnation (Lost Temple), so the mana burn, the thunder lizards, even the creeps on the island were definitely harder.

I hope this helps when coming to understand how/why the map was created, and I gladly accept the substandard rating as useful/simple. Thank you for the rating! (I really wasn't expecting much more then a 2 star rating)

You're welcome! To clarify, some further comments:
1. This is the pathing map from original LT:

And this is from Ancient Temple:

So there are some small differences. Most importantly, footman and other small units can sneak through those gaps which can either mean they can escape from a fight in a way that does not happen on other maps (since heros are too big to follow them), or they might in a worst case scenario walk in an unexpected mannner and accidentially aggro creeps.
2. Ofc, this can be highly subjective. Still I wonder why the ground decayed in such a manner that the surviving rock tiles still form straight angles

3. That is a very sensible idea. But the optimal thing would be to use creeps that are only tougher, but not also more annoying. Manaburn creeps are nearly universially frowned upon by players, the lizards are acceptable in small amounts.

JCarrill0 · Apr 14, 2022

mafe said:
You're welcome! To clarify, some further comments:
1. This is the pathing map from original LT:
View attachment 393261
And this is from Ancient Temple:
View attachment 393263
So there are some small differences. Most importantly, footman and other small units can sneak through those gaps which can either mean they can escape from a fight in a way that does not happen on other maps (since heros are too big to follow them), or they might in a worst case scenario walk in an unexpected mannner and accidentially aggro creeps.
2. Ofc, this can be highly subjective. Still I wonder why the ground decayed in such a manner that the surviving rock tiles still form straight angles
3. That is a very sensible idea. But the optimal thing would be to use creeps that are only tougher, but not also more annoying. Manaburn creeps are nearly universially frowned upon by players, the lizards are acceptable in small amounts.

So I'm pulling up my Warcraft 3 TFT Map editor, Pulling up the LT map from the one blizzard made, and yup...
the pathing you show does in fact show those tree lines blocked, however...

I pointed out, there is gaps, from trees that were cut down, in the original LT map,

mafe · Apr 21, 2022

You are right, there were gaps in the original version. However if you look closely, most (thought not all) of the gape in the original LT are big enough for heroes to also walk through them. While on your map, there are some new small maps, where some units can pass through, but heroes cannot.

JCarrill0 · Aug 8, 2023

Updated to 2.0

I wanted to recreated how the "Temple" area looked so I decided to re-draw the map in its entirety. Let me know what you guys think.

JC's Ancient Temple

JC's Ancient Temple (Map)

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