What an interesting map, you know how to keep your maps fresh. Even the terraining is nicely done.
But once again I feel that creative idea behind this map falls flat by the "not as good" execution of the map. It feels crammed with creeps and there's not much room to breathe. The routes are mostly 1.5 yellow squares which isn't enough imo, there are some larger areas but they are all connected by these chokes. Imo it would be better if the tight route with the shops were a bit wider. The shops are also very close to the base. Four red camps are a bit on the higher side for 1v1 but nothing too drastic imo. I believe the 2 central red camps would be highly contested. I would maybe push some camps deeper into the trees but I fear that the camps are this way because they would aggro the other camps otherwise.
Now for the main feature of the map - the frigates solve an issue some had with the RoR, it doesn't cost any supply. Since it's an unusual unit, it's gold drop is also different from the standard, it drops approximately the gold between a level 5-6 creep. Since the frigates are considered level 4 by the editor, I guess it's somewhat ok. The frigates aren't that great as a reward though, I'd call them glass cannons since they die so easily to pierce damage. Their main purpose is harass which is shown by the open water behind the expo GMs.
Despite some of its flaws, it has been a fun map to play, as your maps tend to be

@Knecht thank you for look at the map! Very valid points. Here are stuff I've planned to change after reading them.
1. Remove orange camp next to the shops and make the area wide space in front of the bases. This way main bases would have one wide and one narrow enterance.
2. Frigate is quite easily destroyed so I might change red frigate camp into a high orange one. Im not so sure about this change at all.
3. Red camp could be pushed more back if orange camp behind it is removed. Other camps could be pushed too to make room.

Awesome that the map is fun to play Yarr I'd rather want pirate models for wc3 melee not bandits.

edit: map updated

I think the terraining is pretty good, feels like a cozy place. Many nice doodad spots, and it's not over the top. Thumbs up for not being too lazy for islands!


The two color types of trees and ground are a solid combination, I only wish that there were a more visible logic behind it. Why is the center of the map rotten? Perhaps add broken archways and more columns to imply that it used to be a larger structure? Plus some graves, and stone/marble terrain here and there to demarcate it. The way it is right now, it feels unfinished to me.

Not a fan of the massive amount of little rocks, but it's a matter of personal taste. You could also replace the lily pads that are frozen in place with those that move with the waves, as they look more natural.

There could be a second tree near the tavern, to host a second wisp.

What bothers me is the width of the paths. There are no choke points. The layout is kept extremely simple, even though the map is rather big and would warrant a 'touch of labyrinth'.


The starting positions are a little too far away from each other. One of the gold mines, on the other hand, is too close to the base. That in itself would not be a problem if the creeps guarding it were strong, but they're very predictable trolls with a total lvl of 14. And they drop a lvl 3 item, which is juicy. What you could do though is swap the creep camps of the gold mines left and right to one's base. That way, the closer gold mine would have the lvl 16 creeps with the kobold.

green: suggested swaps
white: creep camps for natural

Why are there two almost identical lvl 9 camps near the base? That gives players less variety in their creeping. You could swap one of them with the lvl 5 camp in the center though (see screenshot above). Additionally, the camps only drop a lvl 1 permanent, which is disappointing. Should be a lvl 2 permanent imo.

The goblin shop creep camps are an attractive target for AoW farming, but there are no trees. I can see that you've also come to this conclusion and placed one tree to address it, but sometimes more than one is needed and it also looks really weird. Better replace those rocks with trees.


It's better to place caster creeps in the back, where they're safe.

(again: the design is very pretty in that spot)

The respawning boat is a funky idea but players will probably find it too weird. Also, the map isn't really suited for it. Sure, you can attack the expo from behind, but that's kinda lame. Would be more reasonable to have a deep water trench that only a boat could pass and therefore serve as a scouting unit.

In addition, the camp provides a lvl 4 charged item. Seems too much to me.

The two camps dropping lvl 4 items are very close to each other. You can mop them up in one go pretty safely, especially with the lightning shield abuse. There's lots of good items to be had, generally. Most maps only feature two lvl 4/5 items per side, I think.

Map only contains 5 critters, if I'm not mistaken? Could be a little more.

Cigaro said:

There are no choke points

Click to expand...

The very first version of this map were mostly chokes though. Opening the paths was imo a step forward but of course a healthy balance of chokes is desirable.

The green camp-shop-GM creep route has quite a nice flow to level 3 rn, not sure if the suggestions by you would change it drastically. But ye, maybe some changes to creeps would be for the better.

@Cigaro Amazing and very welcomed feedback!
Im going to do at least these changes:
-add trees next to shop
-add critters
-add variety to green camps
-swap expansion goldmine creeps
-remove charged lvl 4 drop

@Knecht I did really open up the map. Chokes are easy to add if needed tho. I let it stay this way for now with mostly 2 yellow grid "chokes".

edit: map updated

Well what to say? It's a good map, and I appreciate some of the ideas, but I'm not really convinced that they will work out.
1. Runes of rebirth: I'm unsure about how to rate the frigates. They seem to be glass cannons. Dependingon how the game goes, they could dominate the earlygame, or be completely irrelevant. Actually, they could be more useful to help defend your own (fast)expansion rather than attack the opponent.
2. A creepcamp of 4 medium armor trolls at an expansion is probably too good for humans.
3. The central location of the red camps: Definitely interesting, but it could also mean that the middle will be irrelevant in the midgame, which could lead to a passive midgame. Also, there relatively weak antiair capabilities could be abused. Most red camp have either ensnare or at least 3+ lvl 4 ranged creeps.
4. Itemdrops: The shop needs a powerup. Depending on how to rate the frigate, the combined rewards from the frigate spot could be too strong. At the green spot near the base, getting just a lvl 1 item feels underwhelming for a lvl 8 spot.
5. Visually, the map is has unique theme, which is very well done.
6. The layout in general is simple, which makes the map easy to learn, but might also be not that interesting in the long run.
7. Reading though the previous discusiion, I think having 1-2 smaller chokepoints (1.5 yellow cell wide) per side might make the map more interesting.

Map approved.