12:41, 6th Jul 2014
MiniMage: Despite looking a little funky at the roof, it's approvable. I don't really like it, but my personal preferences are irrelevant. It's useful as-is.

This thing is giving me serious age of empires 2 vibes. XD
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120815071357/ageofempires/images/4/42/Watch_Tower.gif

Feel like the roof in yours could use some work tho.

I agree with MiniMage, yes it's reminding of AoE2

MiniMage said:

Feel like the roof in yours could use some work tho.

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Ok, but what exactly do you think is wrong with it / what should be improved?

MassiveMaster said:

Ok, but what exactly do you think is wrong with it / what should be improved?

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I provided an excellent reference image. Click the link. then Hold "Ctrl" + "+"
It will zoom in. There's plenty other reference images out there. ;P

MiniMage said:

I provided an excellent reference image. Click the link. then Hold "Ctrl" + "+"
It will zoom in. There's plenty other reference images out there. ;P

Click to expand...

Yeah I saw it, but my tower isn't made to resemble the aoe2 watch tower. (Though some parts might be similar)
The aoe2 one is a lower tech WATCH tower, while my drum tower is supposed to be a higher tech war/defence tower. Thus it is intentionally that it has a shingle roof and not a simpler wooden roof.
Though I guess the texture wrapping for the roof is a bit too streched. So I'll see if I can improve that a bit. But elsewise it looks fine to me.

MassiveMaster said:

Yeah I saw it, but my tower isn't made to resemble the aoe2 watch tower. (Though some parts might be similar)
The aoe2 one is a lower tech WATCH tower, while my drum tower is supposed to be a higher tech war/defence tower. Thus it is intentionally that it has a shingle roof and not a simpler wooden roof.
Though I guess the texture wrapping for the roof is a bit too streched. So I'll see if I can improve that a bit. But elsewise it looks fine to me.

Click to expand...

Tech-wise. The AOE version is superior. Because there's larger gaps, more archers will be able to cram into there. If you give the archers crossbows, it'll be even more effective. Anyhow, I was referring to the roof when I said that I provided an excellent reference. Shingle roofs are not more advanced, they were added purely for a decorative purpose later on, specifically for castles. Granted, there's some extra protection, but adding more weight over your archers is not always ideal.

The thing is, shingle roof, back then, were largely made of wood, slate or flagstone. The material was then attached to a wooden frame. This was very costly and it was extremely hard and dangerous to repair, so it was only really used for larger towns or capitals. Not to mention the fact that it was very time consuming, since all of this had to be transported long distances, while pure wooden roofs could be repaired locally by chopping down some trees.

Even then, this design of yours is like a combination of the two. You use the more expensive material, but using a design made for a normal wooden roof.

Here's another reference picture; For a shingle roof this time.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-goWZVQCG6GM/URQddaJBwQI/AAAAAAAABQc/QTy2vBBlTqk/s1600/3.JPG

MiniMage said:

Tech-wise. The AOE version is superior. Because there's larger gaps, more archers will be able to cram into there. If you give the archers crossbows, it'll be even more effective. Anyhow, I was referring to the roof when I said that I provided an excellent reference. Shingle roofs are not more advanced, they were added purely for a decorative purpose later on, specifically for castles. Granted, there's some extra protection, but adding more weight over your archers is not always ideal.

The thing is, shingle roof, back then, were largely made of wood, slate or flagstone. The material was then attached to a wooden frame. This was very costly and it was extremely hard and dangerous to repair, so it was only really used for larger towns or capitals. Not to mention the fact that it was very time consuming, since all of this had to be transported long distances, while pure wooden roofs could be repaired locally by chopping down some trees.

Even then, this design of yours is like a combination of the two. You use the more expensive material, but using a design made for a normal wooden roof.

Here's another reference picture; For a shingle roof this time.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-goWZVQCG6GM/URQddaJBwQI/AAAAAAAABQc/QTy2vBBlTqk/s1600/3.JPG

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say larger gaps are superior. Sure, more archers can shot at once, but it overs much less protection against enemy missile units what is much more relevant to, normaly outnumbered, defenders. (You might know if you played siege maps in Mount&Blade as archer ^^)

It might be true that shingle roofs have some decorative purpose that comes along and are more expensive than simpler wooden roofs, though up to today it is the most dominant type of roof on normal buildings (at least here in Europe).
Also as I said it is more of a tech/design thing for my building models (even if it might not be that historically accurate). I use three different tech levels. The lowest have straw or wooden roofs, the second has mostly simple slate roofs and the highest use ceramic shingles. This way it is easier to distinguish the tech level and also the higher tier stuff requires more expensive materials to build. Also the slate and ceramic shingle textures have team-colour on them what is very useful.
Furthermore even in AO2 the more advanced guard tower has a ceramic shingle roof, which would tech wise be more equal to my drum tower.

The second reference picture you gave is that for a residential house. I was more going for something like this.

MassiveMaster said:

I wouldn't say larger gaps are superior. Sure, more archers can shot at once, but it overs much less protection against enemy missile units what is much more relevant to, normaly outnumbered, defenders. (You might know if you played siege maps in Mount&Blade as archer ^^)

It might be true that shingle roofs have some decorative purpose that comes along and are more expensive than simpler wooden roofs, though up to today it is the most dominant type of roof on normal buildings (at least here in Europe).
Also as I said it is more of a tech/design thing for my building models (even if it might not be that historically accurate). I use three different tech levels. The lowest have straw or wooden roofs, the second has mostly simple slate roofs and the highest use ceramic shingles. This way it is easier to distinguish the tech level and also the higher tier stuff requires more expensive materials to build. Also the slate and ceramic shingle textures have team-colour on them what is very useful.
Furthermore even in AO2 the more advanced guard tower has a ceramic shingle roof, which would tech wise be more equal to my drum tower.

The second reference picture you gave is that for a residential house. I was more going for something like this.

Click to expand...

Larger gaps are superior for one very interesting reason. It's much easier to shoot down than up. A guard tower, as you call it, was basically a watch tower with better equipment. (The only real difference why there's upgrades of these is because it is an interesting game mechanic in strategy games) The purpose of a tower is not to level armies, but to warn a castle of approaching armies. It's not a purely defensive structure, it's military intelligence on the medieval scale.

That's supposed to be ceramic shingles? Ceramic shingles were only really used on building houses, not really on towers. Not to mention the fact that I thought yours had teamcolored wooden shingles. Also, ceramic tiles is not something new.

Btw, your reference picture is not round. Mine was and you failed to register that what was important was how it connected to the tower. Should I edit it for you to demonstrate what I meant? I'd be able to do it fairly quickly.

As for why it's the most popular today, that's natural. Today, we do not rely on flatstone, or anything like that. What we use today are fibre cement, metal, plastic, and composite material such as asphalt shingles. Most of these materials was invented in the early or mid 1900's. Because our transport is done using trucks, we can transport the ingredients and make it locally, or transport it using trucks that require no more manpower than the man who drives it. Thus, it's no longer a question about utilizing manpower, but purely economics.

Also, I'm Swedish, so I'm not sure what the "At least in Europe" implied. XD

MiniMage said:

Larger gaps are superior for one very interesting reason. It's much easier to shoot down than up.

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True, but the only advantage lies in the little higher projectile velocity that comes from the potential energy difference (m*g*h). And that isn't that big in relation (not for light arrows, for heavy stones you'd throw at the attackers there that's very important). But a good cover that such a tower gives is much more important in comparison, as attackers mostly have to come over a coverless, open field.

MiniMage said:

A guard tower, as you call it, was basically a watch tower with better equipment. (The only real difference why there's upgrades of these is because it is an interesting game mechanic in strategy games) The purpose of a tower is not to level armies, but to warn a castle of approaching armies. It's not a purely defensive structure, it's military intelligence on the medieval scale.

Click to expand...

The drum tower model is supposed to be a wall tower, not a scout tower (the pic was just to show the kind of the roof I'm going for). And their purpose is to be sturdy and allow the defending archers to shoot into the flanks of attackers climbing or destroying the adjoining walls.

MiniMage said:

That's supposed to be ceramic shingles? Ceramic shingles were only really used on building houses, not really on towers. Not to mention the fact that I thought yours had teamcolored wooden shingles. Also, ceramic tiles is not something new.

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Yeah not new, but probably more expensive than just wood, what is kinda the point for me.

MiniMage said:

Btw, your reference picture is not round. Mine was and you failed to register that what was important was how it connected to the tower. Should I edit it for you to demonstrate what I meant? I'd be able to do it fairly quickly.

Click to expand...

Mine is also round.
In fact the U-shape was used mostly because you don't need and want the tower the be protective at the back in case your enemies take it over.
And if you mean the vertical white shingles in your pic, that seems to be just decoration and I don't want that on a military tower...

MiniMage said:

As for why it's the most popular today, that's natural. Today, we do not rely on flatstone, or anything like that. What we use today are fibre cement, metal, plastic, and composite material such as asphalt shingles. Most of these materials was invented in the early or mid 1900's. Because our transport is done using trucks, we can transport the ingredients and make it locally, or transport it using trucks that require no more manpower than the man who drives it. Thus, it's no longer a question about utilizing manpower, but purely economics.

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No objection to that.

MiniMage said:

Also, I'm Swedish, so I'm not sure what the "At least in Europe" implied. XD

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Yeah didn't know where you're from so that was just in case you're from Asia or Africa or somewhere were that might be a bit different.

Great Building! This is a first tower here with galleries!