18:42, 28th Jun 2008
Ash: This map has a conflicting review, in my opinion. On one hand you've got the idea; destroy the opposing team with towers. However, on the other hand you have the pull-off; fail.

The map has numerous different towers which differ vastly, yet they all cost the same. This leaves a massive gap in the balancing and allows for one person to mass a certain tower and win, I.E the death tower.

Siege deals too much damage, and the little robots deal too little, the uprootable trees build extremely quickly and allow you to have an army in seconds.

On the hole, this map is highly lacking, yet playable to the extent it'll be approved. The balancing of units really, really needs to be sorted out, however.

2/5 - Approved.

I really like this map, Simple and fun to play. But it nothing like peon wars so you should not even give credit to it.

In fact, My friend invited me to play Peon Wars and Wisp Wars then suggested me to make this map. I accepted his suggestion and start making this map.... However I give the credit to Peon Wars because my friend told me it's original map of Tower Wars style.

And if you try with advanced players, this map isn't simple anymore. It takes tactics and planning befire doing any things so this map is different on another maps.

Thanks for playing and commenting, I really need feedback.

So, you really need feedback?

Well... Your map is facing the "many" problem. There are too many towers to choose from, while they all cost the same, and have the same stats. So i would REALLY suggest reducing the count of towers.

When i first played your map, i was like: "WHOAH, how many towers, what tower is better?", then i was like reading all the tower stats for 2 minutes, then for a minute i was thinking what to build first. The "many" problems is something like the modern problem with food (too many, don't know what to choose).

It's not FUN...

Your kinda right, it's more suitable for advanced players, that will use that big mass of different towers for strategy.

But then again, where advanced players come from? That's right! From noob players, that play your map the first time. And if they look at all the towers, they won't become advanced players, they will just forget about this map.

So, what i'm suggesting - remove some towers from the game plz...
Like, magic tower - well ok, it uses abilities... Then the watch tower - you say scouting? I say useless. What's scouting for in a small map, and definetly in a game-type like this. Remove it. Siege - ok. Cannon - not ok. Splash attack? What is it for? It's not like your map uses a lot of units (only robots), so remove it. Cold Tower - then again, only for robots? You can remove it, or make it work on other towers. Invisible Tower - kinda useless, remove it. Lightning tower, and death tower - just variations of the basic tower. Remove one of those three. Robot Factory - good idea.

So to summ it up, half of your towers, really fuck this game down... You should make some bright ideas, and create more interesting towers (i like the ancient protector for example, nice idea). And you should also try to add some small, but needed things. Maybe some runes, that randomly spawn, or add more simple units... I don't know what exactly this game-type needs, so good luck! =]

Yeah you are right. Some towers are useless and it will be better for newbies to remove them forever and add some interesting towers. So I'm doing hard work again....

For other things are fine but I will take a look for that.

I also very thanks to your comment. Whatever map with no feedback, Map maker can't know what is good or bad and can't continue developing them.

that was rough.

Newbie mode... You should at least call it begginer's mode...

So, but overall: Nice job. Though it's practicaly unreal to win in newbie mode, because all towers have less range, than 1000. The siege engine is a good idea, you could use it for advanced mode, but still. Most towers are unneeded. What's the cold tower for, if it only works on robots? Same for the fire with a splash attack... You can make the siege machine non-mechanical, so it will be targeted by the cold effect.

My suggestion:
-Remove the tower with a splash attack.
-Insert the siege machine instead of it.
-Remove classification type: mechanical from the siege machine.
-Make the cold effect work on towers too?
-Limit the robot factory to 2-per-player.
-The FOG doesn't work on the castle (didn't check towers, but i think on them it won't work too).
-Rename the STUPID newbie mode (who will wan't to play it?) to easy mode.
-Limit the invisible towers to 8-10 (more fun).

Now about the EASY mode.
The map is really small, and a lot more fun, but your mistake was to remove too many towers. You could leave the death tower, it's more interesting, leave the siege tower, (maybe reduce it's range a bit). In a small map like that, it would be VERY FUN if invisible towers would be there. Leave the robot factory too.

Hope you listen to my words =]

Oh, and for sub modes:
-Rune mode
Runes randomly spawn on the map (runes should give you speed, or invulnerability, or i dunno...).

0.9 released. Huge changes with following Somaz's suggestions.

It sure that releases with lots of bugs (I'm making in BLUR mode lol). If you find any bugs report to me as fast as you can.

OK nigga Let's resume our conversation. Your map has quite some grammar mistakes, but they don't matter a lot.
Now:
-remove the word newbie from the easy mode description plz =D leave it "for fun".
-It was a bad idea not to limit the towers in easy mode (you can set to at least 20 food).
-The limit on the pocket factory should stay in easy mode. If you don't wan't to limit them to 2, then limit the count of robots to 10 plz.
-I still don't get the idea of the splash damage tower. Make the splash, like 500 AoE and work on buildings or smthing. Then it would be realy cool.
-Thx for credit =P But let's carry on
-Siege tower in easy mode - bad idea, remove it, it's unneeded because of the next thing>>>
-Good idea removing damage from the castle in easy mode!!!!!!!!!!
-I repeat, set the food in easy mode to 20, limit the pocket factory to 1, and invisible tower to 8, like in advanced mode. Mode's shouldn't differ that much.
-Good job adding the towers to easy mode!
-If the magic tower has the magic sentry ability, then what's the watch tower (or scout).
-Remove some tower, and add the siege engine to advanced mode =D Plz
-In easy mode, the lightning tower has the F hotkey, while it should have W.
-You can remove the siege tower from easy mode, and it will be super.
-If you don't have sub modes, make the game auto-select no sub mode.
-If you do all that, you will have the best map =P Name it 0.9b, and completely fix all bugs in v1.0.
-No limit for lvl3 in easy mode is a good idea!
-You have a bug with your siege towers. When upgrading them to lvl 3, you can build more siege towers. This can be avoided by adding the lvl 2 and 3 towers to techtree - dependency equivalents in the lvl 1 tower, and limiting ONLY the lvl 1 tower (+ adding the lvl 3 tower to dependency equ in the lvl 2 tower too).

Good luck with your map =] I think i'll try it on battle net.

Addition to the last post:
I played your game on pub in easy mode.
One of the other team players left, and i hope, that your map gives control to over them for their allies.
About the map:
-The Death tower description says the towers range is 350 (but it's 700).
-The Lightning tower is imba man xD People only build IT and nothing more. And it kicks ass with chain lightning.
-Limit everything in easy mode, like i sayd in the last post.
-I hope your map solves the situation automaticly, when there's no player 1.
-I repeat, remove the siege tower from easy mode (more fun), and set the right hotkey (W) to the lightning tower.
-Limit the max number of factories to 2 in easy mode, and limit the max number of robots to 10 in both modes.

I hope your using wc3map optimizer v4.0 (it protects, and reduces map size greatly). It can be found on this site.

Good luck =] Easy mode rocks! But it will rock more if you make some changes, that i wrote.

If you make ALL the changes i wrote, i will play v0.9b on battle net a lot =P No, seriosly, your map has a great future with all these changes, but it's still your map, so it's your decision. =]

Yo man, I released 0.9a with hopefully there's no bugs left (I know it's impossible).


I wanna go to bliz's server but very bad my net not suitable T~T.

Hmm, i only checked the easy mode yet. A lot better than 0.9.
-Invisible towers limited to 5. Make it 8 like in am plz =P
-Basic tower builds a lot faster, faster than the root tower. I thought the root tower is a weak tower, that builds fast? Now the basic tower builds faster, and it's stronger =[ Increase the time on basic tower a bit plz, and decrease on root to 3 or even 2.
-Good job with the text.
-Easy mode is now near complete.
-Good idea limiting the siege mechine, but rename it to siege mAchine (=]), or siege catapult.
-Add the description, of how much cast range, has the magic tower for every spell. And increase the range of magic sentry if possible.
-Good job with the pocket factory, but robots spawn before the factory is ready. To avoid this - remove the ability from the factory, and create a simple trigger.

Event - unit finishes construction
Condition - unit-type of triggering unit equal to pocket factory
Action - Unit add "robot spawn ability" to triggering unit

And, i hope the easy mode will be perfect (i i will play it for quite some time).
After you release the 0.9b with these fixes, i'll look in the advanced mode, and try to find bugs there. GOOD LUCK! 0.9a is now very playable! (Exept for the disbalance with the basic/root towers).

Common man, release 0.9b faster, i wana play

sorry to keep you waiting. I have something to do with my friends. so If I miss to fix something tell me.

Invisible Tower : I can't increase limit to 8. Because it doesn't use food, easy mode has small arena, Lvl.2 and Lvl.3 can invisible too and the last it's 5 per player not per team so 5*4 = 20, enough.

I really thanks to your suggestions, It helped me alot.

Ok played it - it's a lot better, but has quite some bugs..

Let's start with easy mode:
-Basic Tower: It says it's range is 700, but it's 600 realy. Change it to 700.
-Lightning Tower: Increase range to 550.
-Invisible Tower: Only lvl 1 towers are limited. Do the same, as i told you earlier with the siege tower, and increase the limit to 8.
-Magic Tower: Make this tower - original. Set missile speed to 0, and attack type - instant. Increase it's attack speed greatly, and reduce the damage.
-Pocket Factory: Reduce robots hp to 120.
-Death Tower: Too weak for the 18 seconds taken to build. Increase it's damage, and make the chance to deal 2x damage 20% on lvl 2 tower (10% on lvl 1, and 20% on lvl 3 too). Are you sure the instant kill works?
-Guardian: It's imba. Too much hp. Reduce it's hp to 300 on lvl 2, and 400 on lvl 3. Reduce the Hardened skin damage reduction to 5, 10 is too much. Limit the protector to 3 lvl 3 protectors. And decrease their damage to what was in advanced mode. Decrease their range to 600.
-Siege Machine: You change the name, but the description still says limit to 5 mEchines.

You should make the game available to play 5x5, or even 6x6. I know you want people to know who created the map, but creating a player for it was a bad idea.
I know, that you probably won't do it, but you could e-mail the map to me, and i'll make all the changes, as well as making the map available for 6x6, and protecting/reducing it's size with wc3map optimazer, then e-mail it back to you. If you don't know how to make 6x6 yet, then at least make it 5x5 plz.

Now Advanced mode:
-Basic Tower: It says 600 range allright, but i think it should be 700.
-Watch Tower: Increase the magic sentry range to 1000. (Don't forget, it's a 2 lvl tower).
-Magic Tower: Remove the Magic Sentry ability. It should be only in easy mode, and only in the Watch Tower in advanced mode. +The description, that the tower is limited to 1 per lvl 3 is missing. Now that the tower won't the the magic sentry ability, make like this: 1 lvl - magic shield. 2 lvl - Cloud. 3 lvl - Blizzard. Now the tower will be A LOT BETTER. Oh and make it like in easy mode. Make this tower - original. Set missile speed to 0, and attack type - instant. Increase it's attack speed creatly, and reduce the damage.
-Siege Tower: I was going to ask you to limit it to 3 towers, but i see you allready have done that xD BUT i think the tower should cost 1 food, and the 3 tower-limit text is missing. Realy, it's not that great... And you didn't fix the towers the way i told you... If you upgrade them, you can build more. I repeat, you can e-mail me the map, and i'll do everything, and e-mail it back to you. I'm not a cock-sucking map stealer... And i will take NO credit for doing it. Just want to make the map better, and bug free.
-Siege machines SHOULD cost 1 food.
-Ice tower: should be limited to 2 lvl 3 towers. It's damage is high for that.
-Invisible tower: Same problem - upgrade, can build more. And if you manage to fix the problem, set it back to 8. Then it will be 8, not 20 =P
-Lightning Tower: Reduce range to 550 please. And i think the chain lightning ability can hit invisible towers...
-Pocket Factory: Reduce the robots hp to 120.
-Death Tower: Should be limited to 2 lvl 3 towers, and needs A LOT more damage (like in easy mode).
-Guardian Tree: Limit them to 2 lvl 3 towers, and greatly reduce the upgrade time.Too much hp. Reduce it's hp to 300 on lvl 2, and 400 on lvl 3. Reduce the Hardened skin damage reduction to 5, 10 is too much.
-Increase the food limit on advanced mode to 20 too (15 is TOO low for a big map like that).

How to fix the UPGRADE problem again:
Add the lvl 2 and 3 towers to techtree - dependency equivalents in the lvl 1 tower, and limiting ONLY the lvl 1 tower (+ adding the lvl 3 tower to dependency equ in the lvl 2 tower too).

Remember, you can send me the map, and i am NOT a fu**ing idiotic - parasitic map stealer. GOOD LUCK

Released 0.9c.

I have plan to release 1.0 but This time I tried to note everything in notebook and it made faster so I released this version for fixing any bugs and balancing. I hope this version no bugs left and for that I can start to make 1.0 with 4 new sub modes !

Well, you missed i lot of balaces with the towers, for example the basic tower range should be 700. Tree's range should be 650/600, and you only made the damage reduction 5 on level 3 tower in easy mode. What about lvl 2 tower, and am?

YOU FIXED THE UPGRADE TOWER BUG

Overall: Congrats.
Try re-reading my posts with the towers =P Good Luck

1.1b:
- Items can not be dropped.
- No longer drop items on death.

1.1a:
- Fixed Flying Machine's true range to 700.
- Increased AoE of Tornado.

1.1 :
- Added 1 sub mode
- Fixed some bugs

You should have put all the game mode in the Submitter's Description though.

This map has a conflicting review, in my opinion. On one hand you've got the idea; destroy the opposing team with towers. However, on the other hand you have the pull-off; fail.

The map has numerous different towers which differ vastly, yet they all cost the same. This leaves a massive gap in the balancing and allows for one person to mass a certain tower and win, I.E the death tower.

Siege deals too much damage, and the little robots deal too little, the uprootable trees build extremely quickly and allow you to have an army in seconds.

On the hole, this map is highly lacking, yet playable to the extent it'll be approved. The balancing of units really, really needs to be sorted out, however.

2/5 - Approved.

The map has numerous different towers which differ vastly, yet they all cost the same. This leaves a massive gap in the balancing and allows for one person to mass a certain tower and win, I.E the death tower.

Click to expand...

You were wrong, massing one tower type won't do any good. Death Tower is freaking useless if you are playing quick game, however it's strong protecting tower. They are very different so that make more gameplay and more strategy.

Well maybe we have to try together sometime. (even this is my map, I don't have a chance to play it that much, around 2-3 real games so it may need to be balanced something)

does it have AI?
pls pm

Game crashes?

Whenever i try to open this map, my entire warcraft III Crashes from a fatal error?, can you explain whats wrong/fix it?

elazul015 said:

does it have AI?
pls pm

Click to expand...

No it does not. To make an AI that is "INTELLIGENT" for this kind of map is nearly impossible.

Yay4Anime said:

Whenever i try to open this map, my entire warcraft III Crashes from a fatal error?, can you explain whats wrong/fix it?

Click to expand...

Due to WC3's patch 1.23, this map is no longer playable. I'm not gonna fix it since the time I made this map I was new to Jass so it was horribly coded.

Better check:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/creep-arcade-1-25-a-109920/?prev=status=p&u=BestZero
The newest map I made and it supports 1.24+.

Excuse me, my game fatal errored when I tried to join a game of this (hosted on a bot, could be the cause). The rest of the times that I attempted to join the game, it would not even attempt to join it. This map is probably a pre-warden map, which was ruined during one of the updates.