[2016-04-09]

Oh man, I'm dying... I'm away from my WE and can't play it now, but this looks totally awesome!!! Nice description and really fun idea. +rep - review to come.

EDIT:

Looking good!, but the description is so small...

Fun game ^^

Finally, it has been released. :...)

Anyway, I am pretty sure that the gameplay would be the same. Have fun guys!

Played a couple matches with a friend, it was pretty amazing.

My rating is 5/5 since i find that nothing is missing, BTW hillarious custom sounds man.

atmosphere, sounds: great
and your mapping skills are impressive to make non-warcraft mini game from war3
I can only imagine how much work you put into to create this map;]
To be honest its not a map-style I like, but thats unimportand ;]
I think while it is based on aiming mostly, then delay in Lan game is unaccetable (it is even noticeable on single player)
anyway good job;]

Yeah, it's indeed not a very good idea to create minigames on Warcraft 3 engine: there are always downsides.

Anyway, thanks for your times to play the map and to share your thoughts here.

EDIT:
Wait, are you the dude who played this map with me just some moments ago?

Yep, I'm often on Ent , You were spectator, and I played 1st time

I actually saw your game on the list hours ago but it was full

i have a feeling that the models is'nt react to the lightning. or is it?

Legal_Ease said:

Oh man, I'm dying... this looks so cool but ... no screenshots? I'm away from my WE and can't play it now, but this looks totally awesome!!! Nice description and really fun idea. +rep - review to come.

EDIT:

Review Narrative: So I have to admit that I was slightly disappointed. The loading screen was hi res (must be the 4 part texture). The sounds were awesome and created a fun atmosphere like Mario Cart. The mouse following was really cool and as someone who dabbles with triggers, I am intrigued... here's the hairy but though ... it wasn't that much fun to play. My player lagged behind the mouse. This made it harder to play. The original Pong let you zoom your paddle back and forth at lightning speed. I suggest coconut party should work this way. Even a key movement system might make it easier and more fun to play. While I am impressed by the hover tracker system, it is not super effective. Then I got bored pretty fast. With the classic Brickout there were different types of balls and surprises. I know you added some but they came too slow to catch my interest and it was not obvious what they did. I still have to give you a 5/5 and +rep because the game quality is ridiculously high. This is a professional project no doubt, and I want to see more!!! Other great stuff: The tiles looked really cool being a solid color. Nice 4 player re-make of Classic Pong!!! The score board is amazing (too bad I couldn't see it) Possible bug: See attachment. Maybe I need to reset my resolution, but I had white squares where the score was supposed to be. Also, the description is off-center now. It was perfect before you added the screenshots. Screenshots look great though!

Click to expand...

Hey, thanks before.

I didn't add the arrow key movement for alternative control since I think it will make no difference: the same delay. Even, in SP arrow key event works as slow as trackables. So my doubts came out, is it possible that it can outperforms trackables in online mode? I think everything depends on your connection. But anyway, I will add this system in the next update.

What do you mean with "it was not obvious what they did."? Who are they you are referring to?

Coconut spawn rate is one of the most maintained aspect in this map. If you feel it's too slow, that's because the players couldn't keep coconuts to stay in the arena long enough. I know it's because the uncomfortable control, you can't perform your best. But it's not fun as well if there are too many coconuts in the arena like this:

It will be so confusing for a normal player. That's a scenario I achieved with 4 hard and expert AIs. Okay, right after I wrote this paragraph I realized I might've misunderstood what you meant.

The thread has been fixed.
What resolution are you using?

Thanks again for the review!

Wisdom said:

i have a feeling that the models is'nt react to the lightning. or is it?

Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly,
I use all-side illumination to remove shadows and shadings. To make a perfect symmetrical condition for all players: e.g. you won't feel weird to play as peon whereas you are used to play as peasant or the others.

Quilnez said:

What do you mean with "it was not obvious what they did."? Who are they you are referring to?
****************
What resolution are you using?

Click to expand...

I mean, I noticed the way the coconuts acted changed after a level but I wasn't sure what the change did. I think that some were bombs, but I couldn't tell.

I don't remember. I think it was 1028x960. But, I could be wrong.

Key movement could be slower or faster. You could even set it in-game. This would be the biggest improvement. A faster paddle unit would make the game more fun.

Played a couple games of this on LAN. Good stuff. They couldn't get enough of it, haha. Very reminiscent of that one Minigame from Pokemon Stadium. I could get a youtube link of it if you wanted to see what I'm talking about!!

Btw, that AI kicks my ass so easy xP

4/5

Played it just now, there are tons of options to choose from and the chat system is done very nice. I like everything in it. I couldn't see any bugs so far. And the things the goalkeepers(?) say are funny to hear 5/5 for me. After a few updates it'll be perfect.

No bug you said? I have just found some. They're regarding to AI's positioning behavior. So a revision is on the way.

Thanks for (finally) playing the map ;P

Okay, here we go the first revision. It's currently on a very prime state and I think it's stable enough to develop another game mode: Brick Breaker. I just need to free some spaces to import new sounds and models since it's very close to the limit of 8MB already.
@Nighty: get ready for some new requests

Sigh! I also need to update the map description on this thread too. They were made in hurry, very bad wordings, outdated credit list, and outdated screenshots. :[

I always played the map, you just didn't know it I don't know about the positioning but the AI pretty kicks my ass

I'm waiting for them

Have fun editing the description

Your usual group pinball.

I think enabling the unit strife with the mouse anywhere on the map not just in that red area would be nice.
Maybe some more game modes, some gameplay diversity.

Your usual group pinball.

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Well, alright, "usual". I don't know which pong game has boss fight mode tho, or even multiple game modes ;]

I think enabling the unit strife with the mouse anywhere on the map not just in that red area would be nice.

Click to expand...

Of course it would be nice. But this is a Warcraft 3 map and apparently, it's simply impossible. First that trackable costs a lot of FPS. Second, we can't enable/disable, or show/hide trackable only for certain player.

Maybe some more game modes, some gameplay diversity.

Click to expand...

There are 3 game modes already tho and each one is very diversed from the other ones. But I'm indeed still working on this. But tinkering on new game mode is not easy as you think, more over to work on it. I already tried to design some game modes since several weeks ago. Like classic pong, sniping mode, and some others. But none was predicted to work.
Perhaps you have a possible game mode idea? It sounds easy for you judging from the way you said it. I don't want to hear just a random idea tho. Basically it must be fully and perfectly possible, flawless. Because if not, you or the others will ended up hating on it as well.

Still. Thanks for the feedback. Even it's still no where to be constructive. Still better than no feedback at all

Quilnez said:

I'm so tired of people keep coming to suggest impossible things to me. But I'm also glad at the same time that my maps' qualities let them people fantasying about impossible things to add. And somehow forced them to compare those to games made by team of professional game developers. I should feel grateful instead.

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Well, now, I'm not here to work for you or use my time for your map's development. I was looking at it from my perspective. If I were to make a map like this, I would try to make it as diverse as possible. I'm not demanding anything, I'm only suggesting small details, as a result of how I see things. That does not mean you or anyone should agree. However, that should also not be taken as an offense or an attack.

One more thing. I'd rather have people pointing out the wrongs or criticizing my work than listening to their praise so I'd drown in pride.

And the last thing: people are people and they may or may not like something. Everybody has the right to appreciate or depreciate. Nothing's perfect anyways. You just have to take everything with a spoon of courage.

I didn't take your feedback as an offense at all. And I don't want your praises as well. I just want more making sense feedback that's all. I love that you shared what you don't like about the map. But what you were suggesting was something that I can do nothing about. I just want you to consider that this is just a Warcraft 3 map which has a lot of limits.

If I were to make a map like this, I would try to make it as diverse as possible.

Click to expand...

And why do you still think that I'm not trying to add diversity to the map? Again, there are already 3 very diversed game modes. And I'm still trying to add more, even tho it's very tough. Not many mini game maps have multiple game modes, and even, other professional games as well.

Quilnez said:

You are unconsciously hoping this map to surpass professional games (not just Warcraft 3 maps) and I love it. Even tho you are ended up only with 4/5 based on totally invalid made up arguments. But it's true, it's your right to appreciate or to hate.

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Thanks. The Matrix has me.

Updated! A tiny one. Pretty much the final version.
I just found some things to be improved.

Update! Comes along with 3 new videos. : )

Really like the graphical site of this, with the changed HUD, and information board. As such I can't help, but feel that some other model than the workers would be needed as a goal keepers to make it more "fitting with the tropical" theme so to speak. Same as making the females be hawaii dancers or something. Other than that I like it. I guess inspired by the monkey in balls game right?

Hey.
No, both games do not seem the same in everything and I haven't played that game before. Thanks for the feedback tho. I will change the models you suggested once there's a chance.

This is the best map i have seen so far. ^_^

Nice map its so funny. HAHAHA!

lol cool man

I was about to moderate it, but I couldn't load it.
It freezed and crashed about 25% into the loading process.
Note: I do have a pretty shitty computer, but on the same time I haven't had this problem with other maps than super large rpgs before.

Is there a fix for this, or will just another reviewer (with a better computer) have to try it out?

Rufus said:

I was about to moderate it, but I couldn't load it.
It freezed and crashed about 25% into the loading process.
Note: I do have a pretty shitty computer, but on the same time I haven't had this problem with other maps than super large rpgs before.

Is there a fix for this, or will just another reviewer (with a better computer) have to try it out?

Click to expand...

That's usually a resolution and game settings problem, try to use the best configurations available (max resolution, highest detail, etc.)
Once, I tested the map on every resolution and various game settings but never produced the error you mentioned. Seems like it only happens on certain OS, graphic card, driver, or something.

Wonderful minigame. You're a pro allrounder!

IcemanBo said:

Wonderful minigame. You're a pro allrounder!

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Aw, I never knew how to express my gratitude enough for such a kind words. Most of times I only ended up speechless : p
Thanks anyway! But next time try to use simple compliment instead like "nice map" or something... : p

That's usually a resolution and game settings problem, try to use the best configurations available (max resolution, highest detail, etc.)
Once, I tested the map on every resolution and various game settings but never produced the error you mentioned. Seems like it only happens on certain OS, graphic card, driver, or something.

Click to expand...

Unfortuantely this didn't solve it either, and Ardenian seemed to have the same peoblem. It now crashed and closed warcraft instead of just stopping. I will leave this to review for someone that actually can play it, but I suggest you find a way (if possible) to make it playable for everybody.

If that is not possible, you should post a visible note in your description giving information about this.

Rufus said:

Unfortuantely this didn't solve it either, and Ardenian seemed to have the same peoblem. It now crashed and closed warcraft instead of just stopping. I will leave this to review for someone that actually can play it, but I suggest you find a way (if possible) to make it playable for everybody.

If that is not possible, you should post a visible note in your description giving information about this.

Click to expand...

Just re-downloaded, tested, and works fine, both on my laptop and PC. That's must be compatibility problems so I can do nothing about. I already put a note that unoptimized resolution may result in fatal error, since that's the common cause.

That's must be compatibility problems so I can do nothing about.

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Unfortunately I think that is true. :/
I did already redownload it, and the issue remained.

Rufus said:

Unfortunately I think that is true. :/
I did already redownload it, and the issue remained.

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It's fine. I can wait until someone can actually play the map and make an official review.

I wonder why the issue occurs tho, what may causes it. Personally, I never experienced such kind of critical error with any kind of map uploaded here. I already tested the map on Windows 7 both 32&64-bit and on Windows 8. I also literally played the map on multiple machines with various drivers and specifications with multiple game settings. But all works just fine for me. In fact, I didn't even know why I put a warning about the resolution issue since I can't re-produce it myself.

Have you heard this issue occur from more people than me or Ardenian?
It might be a very small specific group that can't play it (wich is also too bad though), and that wouldn't be the greatest problem in the world, then.

Rufus said:

Have you heard this issue occur from more people than me or Ardenian?
It might be a very small specific group that can't play it (wich is also too bad though), and that wouldn't be the greatest problem in the world, then.

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Nope, you were the first one.

Rufus said:

Rufus Moderation Note Note: We talked a little bit about this map in the moderation forums. We agreed that the maps need to be available for all players. In order to approve this map, it needs to be useable in a common format. Status set to Awaiting Update until this is fixed.

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I wouldn't decide so if I were you. Considering the fact that you and Ardenian are the only guys having this problem. But it's your call after all.

I hope it didn't seem like I abused my power.

I wouldn't apply this moderation if we didn't agree to it together (not only me and Ardenian, but a few people that it seemed to work for too).
I made sure that moderators, not only reviewers, gave their input aswell.

Additionally, I would like to have the possibility to try the game out too...

Would you have to decrease the quality of your map in order to make it work for all players?
In that case it could be argued that it should be approved anyway, but with a clear note that it doesn't work for all players.

Rufus said:

I hope it didn't seem like I abused my power.

I wouldn't apply this moderation if we didn't agree to it together (not only me and Ardenian, but a few people that it seemed to work for too).
I made sure that moderators, not only reviewers, gave their input aswell.

Additionally, I would like to have the possibility to try the game out too...

Would you have to decrease the quality of your map in order to make it work for all players?
In that case it could be argued that it should be approved anyway, but with a clear note that it doesn't work for all players.

Click to expand...

Can you prove that the problem is on the map, not on your machine or Ardenian's? Moments ago I have just asked my friend to play my map on his PC, and he said it works all fine as well. He's using Windows 8. It's been tested on 5 different machines with vary operating systems and specifications. Nothing's wrong happened.

The map quality has nothing to do with the problem.

Who else were in the discussion if I may ask? Do they have the same problem? Can I see the whole conversation? I believe discussion upon a single map is not a private thing.

EDIT:
What patch version are you using btw?

Ok, then this map perhaps just should be reviewed by someone else.
My computer is not the best, but I actually reinstalled the game before trying it, downloading the latest patch from bnet aswell.

Well, Ardenian and I raised the question in the reviewers forum, and Ralle and Shadow Fury agreed with our decision. You will have to ask Shadow Fury or Ralle for allowance to see the entire conversation though, as I don't think I can take that decision.

Rufus said:

Ok, then this map perhaps just should be reviewed by someone else.
My computer is not the best, but I actually reinstalled the game before trying it, downloading the latest patch from bnet aswell.

Well, Ardenian and I raised the question in the reviewers forum, and Ralle and Shadow Fury agreed with our decision. You will have to ask Shadow Fury or Ralle for allowance to see the entire conversation though, as I don't think I can take that decision.

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Try to use patch version 1.26 then ; )

It sounds like you were simply asking opinions, and the they gave their opinions without knowing the circumstances. I can ask, did they test the map themselves? Did they experience the same issue? Did you tell them that the problem only happens to you and Ardenian? Did they realize there is no other crash complaint other than yours in this thread? Based on what they made their opinions?

Correction:
My friend is using Windows 10 64-bit. So it's confirmed to be fully working on Windows 7 32&64-bit, Windows 8, and Windows 10 64-bit.

I checked if you can be part of the conversation we had.
I'll get back to you soon.

Quilnez said:

Try to use patch version 1.26 then ; )

It sounds like you were simply asking opinions, and the they gave their opinions without knowing the circumstances. I can ask, did they test the map themselves? Did they experience the same issue? Did you tell them that the problem only happens to you and Ardenian? Did they realize there is no other crash complaint other than yours in this thread? Based on what they made their opinions?

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Wrong. These are just groundless assumptions.
I actually checked the map myself, but it crashed just as I tried to load it. You know what's strange? I tested your map long time ago when you had first uploaded it and it worked fine (didn't drop my review back then). However, after some updates you did, it appears you've messed up with something and now it doesn't work. By the way, I played with the same resolution on the same computer with exactly everything as I'd tested the first time.
You can't put the blame simply on the hardware if some people experience this problem. Our rules are crystal clear on the matter: the map must be fully-functional for approval. Here, I'll quote the part that says so:

All submissions must have a minimal amount of errors. If it does not function properly in-game it will not be accepted.

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Quoted from the General Resource Rules.
The game might work for you and a few others, but we cannot overlook the fact it doesn't for some people. This blatantly demonstrates there is a problem with the game itself. Would you mind digging further into the issue? Perhaps, after a specific update, you changed something that shouldn't have been altered.

Shadow Fury said:

Wrong. These are just groundless assumptions.
I actually checked the map myself, but it crashed just as I tried to load it. You know what's strange? I tested your map long time ago when you had first uploaded it and it worked fine (didn't drop my review back then). However, after some updates you did, it appears you've messed up with something and now it doesn't work. By the way, I played with the same resolution on the same computer with exactly everything as I'd tested the first time.
You can't put the blame simply on the hardware if some people experience this problem. Our rules are crystal clear on the matter: the map must be fully-functional for approval. Here, I'll quote the part that says so:



Quoted from the General Resource Rules.
The game might work for you and a few others, but we cannot overlook the fact it doesn't for some people. This blatantly demonstrates there is a problem with the game itself. Would you mind digging further into the issue? Perhaps, after a specific update, you changed something that shouldn't have been altered.

Click to expand...

If there's something wrong with the map, it should've crashed for anybody else, not just 3 out of hundreds. I never blame anything, I just mentioned that that's probably a compatibility issue. In fact you are the one who's one sidedly blaming my map to be troublesome, without being able to prove. I always added "probably" in my statements since I can't be sure what's the problem. While judging by the way you spoke, it sounds like you are very sure that the problem is absolutely on the map. Can you prove it then?

Somebody with enough mapping experience will be easily able to classify kind of errors. Crashes in the middle of the game (after map initialization) is obviously caused by triggers and scripts. Crashes happens immediately before loading begins is caused by faulty saving progress (only happens on JNGP) and in some circumstance, the use of certain variable on map initialization. The crash you mentioned is nowhere within those classifications, I can't even classify it since I never encountered such thing.

Quilnez said:

If there's something wrong with the map, it should've crashed for anybody else, not just 3 out of hundreds. I never blame anything, I just mentioned that that's probably a compatibility issue.

Click to expand...

You're speaking as if we are surely the only 3 who had crash problems, but this may not be true, but let me say something else. Never before has a Warcraft map had "compatiblity issues" because if the computer is able to run Warcraft, then all maps must be playable. If you change the engine/scripts/whatever so much to cause compatiblity issues, then this is a problem you must solve. You cannot present a map with such issues as all people must be able to run it if their Warcraft functions.

Quilnez said:

In fact you are the one who's one sidedly blaming my map to be troublesome, without being able to prove. I always added "probably" in my statements since I can't be sure what's the problem. While judging by the way you spoke, it sounds like you are very sure that the problem is absolutely on the map. Can you prove it then?

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Your map is troublesome if it causes problems to some users, but you're taking a defensive stance for no reason instead of looking for the problem. You cannot just ignore the minority because they are the only ones who voiced up. Three users said your map crashes, and probably more will.
Imagine that your map is hosted on BattleNet for example. Say that 6/8 load the map, what about the remaining two, considering they are not spectators? They'd ruin the game because they would not load the map, forcing all the 8 players to remake everything and find other people. What about if these two guys were friends? Even worse.
Your map needs to work for everybody, not just for the majority (that's assuming the map works for the majority which may not be true though). This is not a plausible reason for turning a blind eye to all of this. That's sufficient to prove Rufus right on his decision.

Quilnez said:

Somebody with enough mapping experience will be easily able to classify kind of errors. Crashes in the middle of the game (after map initialization) is obviously caused by triggers and scripts. Crashes happens immediately before loading begins is caused by faulty saving progress (only happens on JNGP) and in some circumstance, the use of certain variable on map initialization. The crash you mentioned is nowhere within those classifications, I can't even classify it since I never encountered such thing.

Click to expand...

This is the risk you run when you try to change the normal engine of Warcraft: anomalous bugs that nobody has ever seen before. In addition, map mods and reviewers are not wizards of triggers and scripts, so if you have a very strange crash problem, you'd better ask in Triggers and Scripts forum instead of asking mods and reviewers.