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Build and Brawl (BnBv1.9j)

Hello Hive,

This is a battling map for 4 players. Gameplay is inspired by card shuffle and castle fight. The idea is a low-APM war game based on decisions, counters and combos.

Every round you have a random ally. Combine a Builder and Base and defeat the other team with units and spells.

Experience such famous strategies as "Eternal Militia Monolith" "The Ghoul Roost" "Immortal Wisp Citadel" "Cursed Gnoll Rush" "World Tree Apocalypse" and "Greedy Mesmer Bazaar," or experiment to find your own!


Discord link: Join the Ham's War Game Discord Server!

If anyone wants to play with me / my group to test strategies and give balance feedback, just send me a message, we're always happy for more

Features:
- a tutorial cinematic
- 14 builders (races)
- 36 bases (9 starting) (kind of works like a passive)
- can choose All Pick, Random Builders or All Random in Mode building
- with 4 players, rotating teams of 2; with 2-3 players, free for all, and automatic free for all if a player leaves a 4 player game
- bots that produce escalating random spawns for single player (just for testing)




Your Builder is your main unit, and can construct buildings with Gold and use Items (Spells) with mana. Spells have limited charges and are gained by constructing buildings. All Builders have access to at least one building that trains units, one that produces mana, and one that produces gold.

- Dwarf (New): Trains Riflemen and Mountain Kings, barrages enemies with single-target spells. A defensive builder.

- Priestess (New): Trains devastating Myrmidons and Consorts, smites enemies with Braziers and escalates mana. Very explosive.

- Count: Swarms with Cursed humans, summons Gargoyles and trains powerful Vampires. An offensive builder.

- Mesmer: Drains mana, deals constant spell damage and summons illusions. Good at casting and control.

- Lich: Trains hordes of weak undead and casts powerful killing / summoning spells. Good at quick swarms.

- King: Trains tough defensive footmen and casts a variety of spells. A flexible builder.

- Warlord: Grunts with cleave allow for constant AoE. Can also train fast-regenerating trolls. A rusher.

- Cryomancer: Can constantly freeze enemies with enough mana. Also able to rush with summoned Tusks. A caster.

- Diabolist: Units more powerful, but train more slowly. Flexible but costly magic. Dominant late-game.

- Gardener: A strange builder that summons plants. Has lots of self-healing and can swarm with Treants.

- Miner: Increases resources by building around Burrows. Has access to high-hp cave summons.

- Cultist: Lots of mass-destruction, and trains units with abilities that activate when they die.

- Assassin: Trains units with poison, and casts situational damage spells. Tricky but adaptive.

- Engineer: Trains machines that need to be powered up. Gains high mana regen and AOE nukes.



Your Base is in the middle where trained and summoned units spawn, and needs to be defended. Each starting Base has an inherent special that can be upgraded, and the Base itself can be upgraded into an advanced Base that changes this special. Advanced Bases can also invest in powerful delayed abilities. Bases need lumber, which is gained by all players whenever a powerful neutral Monster is killed.

Bazaar: adds more gold generation to your gold-producing (training) building.
----Tavern: causes your gold-producing building to also summon a Mercenary, can summon deadly Swashbucklers.
----Alchemist Lab: causes your gold-producing building to also damage a random enemy unit for an amount based on your total gold, can summon a crazed transmuting Alchemist.
----Voodoo Lounge: causes your gold-producing building to also generate mana, can transform all enemies into Swine.

Guard Tower: high hp, periodically fires arrows at nearby enemies.
----Death Tower: fires a slow high-damage projectile at a random enemy in global range, can temporarily disable itself to deal direct damage to an enemy Base.
----Sand Tower: rapidly thrashes melee-range units with sand, can summon a nasty Ant Lion.
----Pheonix Tower: scorches nearby enemies with Pheonix Fire, can heal itself while damaging all units at once.

Hut: summons a Gnoll whenever you train a unit.
----Roost: when you train a unit, calls thunder down on random enemy units, can summon a high-damage Thunder Beast.
----Yurt: when you train a unit, summons ranged Centaurs, can summon a powerful Khan with endurance aura.
----Magic Mine: when you train a unit, generates gold, can immediately produce gold at the cost of life.

Lodge: heals your units whenever they kill an enemy.
----Skull Tower: causes your killing units to buff either themselves or an ally with increased damage, can summon 2 Blood Trolls.
----Reaver Den: summons Reavers whenever your units kill, can empower all your units at once with increased attack.

----Mouth: generates mana when your units kill, can make one of your units deal heavy damage to all others.

Node: adds more mana generation to your mana-producing (training) building.
----Fire Node: causes your mana-producing building to also burn all units at once, can summon a mass of Fire Elementals based on mana.
----Water Node: causes your mana-producing building to also summon Water Elementals, can set your Builder's mana to maximum.
----Earth Node: causes your mana-producing building to also heal your Base, can summon a tanky Earth Elemental.

Necropolis: summons Longdeads when you kill any unit with a spell.
----Halls of the Dead: summons more powerful Angry Dead when you kill with a spell, can kill all units at once, which itself counts as a spell.
----Ziggurat: damages a random enemy unit whenever you kill with a spell, this damage counts as a spell, can summon a self-reanimating Paralich.
----Tomb: heals your Base when you kill with a spell, can drain 40 life from an enemy Base.

Nexus: damages a random unit whenever you cast a spell.
----Tabernacle: heals your Base whenever you cast a spell, can summon an evasive Celestial.
----Hellgate: summons an Imp whenever you cast a spell, can summon a bloodthirsty Hell Knight.

----Academy: restores some mana when you cast a spell, can double all your spell charges.

Shrine: summons Wolves whenever you construct a building.
----Temple: summons a self-summoning Zealot whenever you construct a building, can summon a Zealot on top of every enemy unit.
----Ancient: gains mana whenever you construct a building, can damage all enemy units and Bases for an amount that increases with each building you control.

----World Tree: heals your Base when you construct a building, can grant a friendly unit giant health.

Totem: restores life whenever one of your units dies.
----Citadel: smites an enemy unit every time one of your units dies, can summon a godlike Templar.
----Pagoda: damages an enemy Base whenever one of your units dies, can equalize the life of your and a random opponent's Base.

----Monolith: gains mana whenever one of your units dies, can restore most of its life at once.



Monsters spawn once every 60 seconds unless there is a Monster in play. Monsters are the source of wood for all players and can dictate the tempo of a match. Different Monsters counter different types of units and never attack Bases. It can be useful to let a Monster defend for you against a rush, but remember, whoever kills the Monster also gains bonus gold.

Angry Bear:
strong cleaving attack and high-hp, can wipe out swarms of low-hp units.

Dragon Turtle: spiked shell reflects some melee damage back at attackers, and attacks at range.

Fire Drake: Immolation burns weak melee units, and attacks at range.

Ghost Wolf: 75% evasion but low hp, powerful against all units but vulnerable to spells.

Mana Beast: attacks deal global damage to all units with mana, wipes out low-hp spellcasters.

Rock Lobster: attacks permanently stun a single target, good against single elite units.

Swamp Hydra: spits poison at range and quickly regenerates health, but low-hp.

Thunder Lizard: a long-range attack that never misses, good against slow melee units and phantasms.


Changes:
v1.9j (9/6/19)
- players will never random the same builder twice in a row
- updated Dwarf and Assassin strategy tips
- Castle Ruins gold cost 1255 -> 955
- Plague of Rats mana cost 40 -> 50

v1.9i (6/25/19)
- two players can now win during Fixed Teams mode
v1.9h (6/17/19)
- Gnoll life 7 → 5, damage 2-4 → 1-4
- Wolves no longer take double damage from spells, life 8 → 7
- Swamp Cult (from Evil Eye) changed to Annihilate: Deal X damage to a random enemy Base, where X is the number of charges remaining (gains charges the same way)
- Jelly Pit gold cost 850 → 780
- Evil Seed heal removed, Strangling Fruit cost 300 → 150
- Carpentry Guild gold gained when you construct a building 75 → 125
- Serpent Shrine heal 100 → 50
- Satyr Revel mana cost 50 → 60
- Temple changed: when you construct a building, summon a Guardian, Guardians gain base life and damage based on Relics

v1.9g (6/16/19)
-added a separate Mode building for player 1, to immediately set team / random / pick settings (no longer vote)
-Wolf life 10 -> 8
-Storm Rider life 20 -> 15, damage 4-10 -> 2-8

v1.9f (6/14/19)
-removed "test" command
-fixed a few mechanics (notably dwarf munitions) that broke with the patch

v1.9e (3/28/19)
-some small balance changes
-changed the way Evil Eye works for Cultist, changed Slime Pits to train Jellies, and the spell to Summon Monster Jelly, reduced stacks of Void Pulse
-Priestess Serpent Shrine now heals base for an amount = 100 x total Serpent Shrines when built
-Mesmer House of Joy now adds passive heal whenever you cast a spell (Stacking), Temple of Doubt adds passive Mana restore when casting
-changed Fountain of Blood (Count) so it summons a unit when a touching building trains, buffed Gargoyles to have 1 damage resistance
-reduced mana cost of Assassin Satyrs
-changed Barrel (Dwarf) into Munitions, which damages enemy units when a touching building trains, and gives the spell Siege Gang
-buffed Wolves from Shrine
-changed terrain to a symmetrical "colors" layout
-added many new Bases, mostly ones that self-heal or directly damage enemy Bases

v1.9b (2/15/19)
-back again! Preparing for a big Leader + Base expansion
-Set Wins Needed to only increase by 1 if two players are about to win simultaneously. This should make it very hard for rounds to go infinite
-Reduced some random name lengths to fit better
-Made a visible Monster timer in the center of the field - should allow for some better planned timing
-Removed all terrain and doodads - this is the age of visual minimalism

v1.9a (3/21/17)
-still need to change preview image, haha
-a balance update focusing on Bases, with some added features
-Carpentry mana cost 75 -> 125
-Storm Riders charges 1 -> 2
-Storm Cage gold cost 575 -> 675
-Engineer units (but not Base) with Armaments can now target Monsters with missiles
-Plague Ritual mana cost 125 -> 150
-Abomination and Magnataur no longer vulnerable to magic
-Huntress magic resist 75% -> 50%
-Fire Node now does 5 damage to 3 random units when you produce mana, can target the same unit more than once
-Temple now summons a healing Priest when you construct a building
-Crusade now increases the max life and mana of all friendly units
-Yurt now deals direct damage to an enemy Base when you train a unit
-Water Node and Tavern set to 4 lumber
-Academy life 300 -> 200
-Tabernacle healing 5 -> 10
-Celestial now gives Brilliance Aura to friendly units and builders
-Demolish gold cost 300 -> 600
-Each player is given a random name
-Every round, each team is given a random name
-players can vote for "fixed teams," which locks the current teams for future rounds (a requested feature for premade games with friends, obviously the game won't end in this mode if two players always have the same wins)

v1.8i (1/27/17)
-a small balance update
-Night of the Dead mana cost 50 -> 40, no longer gives +1 damage
-Town Bell mana cost 50 -> 75, charges 2 -> 1
-Love of the Chosen mana cost 75 -> 90, charges 3 -> 2
-Evil Seed damage capped at 10
-Pagoda is now 2 lumber, Citadel is now 3
-Monolith life 700 -> 400, Regenerate now only restores 200 life
-Villager train time 20 -> 30
-Cursed Beast damage 4-7 -> 2-5
-Blood Curse mana cost 50 -> 75, charges 2 -> 1
-Manor gold cost 745 -> 685
-Glory mana cost 60 -> 50

v1.8h (12/27/17)
-balance changes, small miner rework
-Centaur range and life reduced
-Assassinate can now target any unit, and the damage is dealt by the Huntress (triggers Lodge, Skulltower etc)
-Mother Tree cost 900->800
-Glory Banner cost 400->325
-Pagoda changed, now deals 1 damage to a random enemy Base whenever one of your units dies
-Lesser Calling mana cost 25->20
-Evil Seed mana cost 25-30
-Thunder Clap was causing the attacked unit to deal the damage, not the Mountain King (fixed)
-Newt Pact changed to summon 1 Newt at 25 mana, 3 charges
-Kobold Boss now gains 25 gold for each Tunneler in play
-Treasure Hunt now gains 200 gold for each Burrow
-fixed a lot of trained units that didn't have the Q hotkey

v1.8g (12/25/17)
-quick rework extension
-reduced gold cost of Castle 1600 -> 1415
-reduced gold cost of Glory Banner and removed +2 damage / -3 armor, reduced charges of Glory to 1
-changed priestess strategy tip

v1.8e+f (12/25/17)
-balance changes and reworks
-moved surrender button up vertically so players stop accidentally clicking it after exiting build menu
-added a light red chat message that alerts players whenever their Base receives direct damage from a spell or ability
-Blood Curse mana cost increased and stacks reduced, Cursed Manor cost increased
-Cursed Beasts now transform into Villager at 10 mana
-Storm Rider attack changed to 4-10, Never Misses replaced with a bounce
-Thunder now deals 60 damage to your Base
-increased heal from World Tree 15->25
-increased Giant Growth life gain 20->30
-made Angry Dead and Rock Lobster Inorganic
-removed summon cap from Town Bell, Spider Summoning and Mob, due to innate game cap of 30
-fixed bug from recent changes where Burrow wasn't training its second Tunneler
-Reavers buffed to 3-6 damage, 10hp
-Satyr changed to Reveler, no longer permanently debuffs, instead when it kills a unit summons a smaller melee Satyr
-Keep -> Castle, now trains Knights, trains Mercenaries for each touching Market, Militia for each touching Farm, Footmen for each touching Barracks
-Sally Forth! now summons 1 Knight per Castle, 1 Mercenary per Market, 1 Militia per farm and 1 Footman per Barracks
-Blacksmith +2->+1 damage
-Holy light now heals for 5, gives +5 life total, and deals 5 damage in 450 aoe
-Campfire cost reduced to 745, now instead of giving health regen causes touching training buildings to train +1 of their unit (Grunt or Troll) for each touching Campfire
-Aggression now gives 1 friendly unit +3 damage and deals 7 damage to a random enemy in 450 range (Warlord can now make use of Necropolis), charges increased and mana cost reduced
-Glory Banner now gives +2 damage and -3 armor to units trained by touching buildings, and additionally causes the trained unit to deal 5 damage to an enemy Base upon being trained (this scales per Glory Banner)
-Glory charges reduced to 2

v1.8c+v1.8d (12/21/17) (experimental)
-Totem and Tomb and some other on-death bases were messing with the damage trigger for scaling AOE spells like Mana Storm, Tranquility, Apocalypse, Evil Seed etc (all fixed)
- Storm Rider damage changed to 7-7, charges reduced to 1
- added a loading screen
- removed AI from 2-4 player games, the game was never meant to be played with AI and it's been warping people's impression + strategies.
- AI bots will only spawn if it's 1 player (if you want to test stuff out)
- If a player leaves, teams will revert to Free For All every round
- If only two or three players are in a game when it starts, teams will always be Free For All
- Added a cap of 30 to all unit-types for each player, meaning players won't be able to summon or create more than 30 units of any one type (prevents the type of swarm that can make the game almost unplayable)
- these changes will probably come with some bugs although I've tried to test thoroughly
- Stability is near!

v1.8b (12/20/17)
-sigh another quick hotfix, really worried about spamming makemehost but these are game breaking bugs here
-on kill effects of units entering play combined with Roost (and some other things) weren't understanding the owner and defaulting to player 1 (fixed)
-the Anointed buff could target your Builder (fixed)
-Devour ability of Mouth not working properly (fixed)

v1.8a (12/20/17)
-quick hotfix
-Ziggurat and Tomb were generating longdead off of longdead if holding decay scroll (fixed)

v1.8 (12/19/17)
-big Base "paradigm shift" update
-per player advice, not adding Tauren yet
-9 new Advanced Bases, all at 1 or 2 lumber, and some old ones switched to 1 lumber, allowing for a very early change in strategy
-many balance tweaks
-Holy Fire range reduced and no longer damages buildings
-Citadel now does damage originating from the Builder, not the unit (infinite zombies no longer works)
-Ziggurat damage reduced to 4
-Thunder Beast can now be targeted by all units
-Aviary changed to provide gold, mana and base heal whenever you build next to one, cost reduced
-Thunder mana cost reduced and damage to base increased
-Mana Surge once again damages base
-Ancient One damages base
-Slime Advance and Dark Alchemy damages base
-Evil Seed heals base
-Strangling Fruit and Sacred Arm no longer spawn additional buildings
-Consume now deals 10 damage and heals 10 life
-Treant health reduced to 6

v1.7c (12/14/17)
-small quality of life update
- remapped Building hotkeys to be spatially sensible:
QW
ASD
ZXC
- increased round start timer to 45 seconds
- spawn a unit when tower dies to allow defeated players to vote on modes / restart
- Strangling Fruit cost reduced
- Apocalypse mana 150 -> 100
- Chieftan builder and new Bases in the works...

v1.7b (12/10/17)
-small balance update
-took away mana gain on Statue, reduced cost, made Count gain mana whenever something is built next to Castle Ruins
-Lord's Gaze mana cost 25 -> 20, charges 5 -> 8
-Reanimate charges 4 -> 2
-gave Myrmidon cleave
-Initiate now generates +2 mana when he kills
-Brewer retains passive but Inebriate spell changed to Revelry (+8 life -2 armor to all friendly units)
-Storm Cage cost increased
-Increased inherent mana gain from Ancient
-Sand Tower, Halls of the Dead and Water Shrine lumber cost reduced (big 1 lumber Base update to come!)
-Advanced Bases for Bazaar and Node no longer have inherent production gain
-coming next: 1 lumber advanced option for every starting Base, new builder Chieftan

v1.7b (12/10/17)
-small balance update
-took away mana gain on Statue, reduced cost, made Count gain mana whenever something is built next to Castle Ruins
-Lord's Gaze mana cost 25 -> 20, charges 5 -> 8
-Reanimate charges 4 -> 2
-gave Myrmidon cleave
-Initiate now generates +2 mana when he kills
-Brewer retains passive but Inebriate spell changed to Revelry (+8 life -2 armor to all friendly units)
-Storm Cage cost increased
-Increased inherent mana gain from Ancient
-Sand Tower, Halls of the Dead and Water Shrine lumber cost reduced (big 1 lumber Base update to come!)
-Advanced Bases for Bazaar and Node no longer have inherent production gain
-coming next: 1 lumber advanced option for every starting Base, new builder Chieftan

v1.7a (12/8/17)
-new builder, Dwarf, trains riflemen and uses lightning magic, very defensive
-soft remake of cryomancer to encourage more interesting building placement
-ice hunt now summons tusks based on total igloos and total buildings touching an igloo
-cold throne now also causes units trained by touching buildings to summon frost wolves
-Count buffs
-villagers now transform at 15 mana
-Blood Knight summons twice as many villager
-Blood Curse cost 75 -> 50
-new trigger that makes all units interrupt their current action when the Monster dies (units were running toward the Monster's death point even after it died)
-tutorial now mentions the color-coding of building types

v1.6z (12/7/17)
-last one in this flurry
- added Vulnerability to a lot more big units, notably Abomination and Magnataur
- gave Huntresses magic resist 75%, gave greater demons 50%
- gave fire drake an aoe attack
- increased cost of Serpent Shrine
- reduced damage and hp of Consort
- Troll Lodge for Cryomancer now gives Cold Snap, a single-target nuke / freeze, opens up a Nexus / Cryophytosis strategy

v1.6y (12/6/17)
-quickfix, fixed magic resistance for treants / treefolk
v1.6x (12/6/17)
-quickfix, added Priestess strategy tips
v1.6w (12/6/17)
-another somewhat big update
- new Builder, Priestess, worships an ancient god, trains and summons powerful Anointed units
- added Spell Vulnerable, and made it so spell resistant 50/75 and spell vulnerable are armor types that can be seen by other players
- teams now rotate in a fixed pattern after starting from a random configuration
- when Monsters spawn and are in play, all units always try to attack it, this will hopefully cut back on the annoying target juggling
- Lodge heal halved
- Cursed Beasts now turn back into villagers on death
- Feast charges and damage reduced, but receive more charges with more Fountains of Blood
- small balancing tweaks to several new bases
- Tower variants now have their native projectile as an invisible ability instead of holding an extra item
- fixed bug where going random sometimes gave you nothing
- if there is a tie between random builder and all random, it will now default to random builder instead of all pick

v1.6v (12/4/17)
- a quickfix to clean up some Modes bugs and balance some overlooked power spikes from adding magic resistance, probably more to come
- added Restart vote in Modes (seems to work well, but these all need extensive bugtesting I think)
- made Villagers transform into Cursed Beasts at 20 mana, increased Feast damage
- Sprout mana cost increased 15->25, Druid casts Sprout at 5->10 mana
- slight increased gold cost to Cannon Fort, Workshop and Generator

v1.6u
- 10 new base upgrades, 2 new starting bases (Lodge and Totem)
- new Builder, the Count, trains undead Vampires and living Villagers, can summon Gargoyles, Blood Knights, Diseased Rats and Nosferatu, can transform living units into Cursed Beasts and heal allied units with Feast
- Diabolist reworked, Slab now summons warlock, can train Demons instead of Deceivers, Apocalypse Shrines give mana boost based on charges, new spells
- Mesmer tweaks, Spellbreaker -> Mage Knight, Temple of Doubt amplifies Mage Knight spell, House of Joy trains High Elfs only if you train Mage Knight
- Gardener tweaks, Undergrowth upgrades into Mother Tree, Briars entangles enemies when you train
- Many other balancing tweaks (and more to come)
- Magic resistance introduced and added to several units based on flavor
- Terrain added instead of black water
- Mode building in choosing area, can turn strategy tips on / off, and vote for All Pick, All Random or Random Builder

v1.5b
- fixed sanctum to autotrain Spellbreakers
- fixed Keep to show "for each Keep" text

v1.5a
- dramatically reworked some builders
MESMER:
- Sanctum now trains Spellbreaker
- Sanctum's passive now works like the nexus and spreads to adjacent buildings
- Temple of Doubt and House of Joy no longer train units, cost reduced and spell stacks increased
LICH:
- Cursed Grave no longer improves trained units, it now summons a scaling amount of units based on what it's built next to
- Plague ritual only summons Abomination, which now has cleave and raises a Zombie whenever it kills a unit
CRYOMANCER:
- Runes cost reduced and Cryophytosis now summons a Frost Wolf in the middle instead of Ice in the build zone
- Cold Throne no longer improves trained units, it now summons a Frost Wolf whenever you cast a spell
- Tusks (melee) attack increased and Ice Hunt mana cost reduced
DIABOLIST:
- Bargul Shrine changed to Apocalypse Shrine which no longer trains a unit, instead it costs 250g and gives 1 stack of Apocalypse, and Apocalypse damage now scales on number of Apocalypse shrines and number of Acolytes
- Lesser Demons summoned by adjacent Acolytes when a unit is trained are themselves now trained, meaning they trigger Hut and Yurt
KING:
- Gold costs reduced across the board
- Keep passive now actually works and triggers Hut and Yurt
WARLORD:
- Aggression now comes from Campfire
- Fort can summon Raider, a beefier unit with cleave
CULTIST:
- Sacred Arm now also summons Evil Dreams based on how many Tentacles you control
- Slime Advance stacks increased
- fixed Void Pulse to work properly for players besides player 1
GARDENER:
- Can no longer consume last Sprout stack
- Gains x Sprout stacks if you build a plant next to more than one tree
GENERAL
- Hellgate cost increased
- Guard Tower range slightly increased
- Guard and Death Tower no longer target Monsters
- Buildings color-coded, green for training, purple for misc, blue for mana generating and orange for gold generating

v1.5
- Includes a couple versions here, heh
- AI spawning reduced
- Quest Log replaced with "Help" info
- All Builders display strategy tips when picked and have "Strategies" visible as a passive ability
- New Bases and Base upgrades, Shrine, Temple, Nexus, Death Tower
- Removed Bases, Castle, Town Hall
- Diabolist costs increased
- Mesmer costs reduced and Sanctum reworked to nuke enemies
- Miner costs increased and Ore Vein improved
- Warlord Aggression no longer summons Grunts
- Holy Fire range increased to 600
- Many other minor tweaks

v1.2
- Name changed back to non-abbreviated less-absurd vision, new preview image
- Garrison range, damage and cost reduced
- Blood Pact now summons Succubi based on Acolytes
- Acolyte, Starblossom, Glowthistle, Undergrowth and Briars cost reduced.

v1.1
- quick fix, Imps summoned by Hellgate were always allied to player 1


Resource Credits: HeroGlow by assassin_lord, Loading Screen by unknown, Cliff1 (for cliff shadow) by Rufus

Testing Credits: Hamsamwich, Shame, inchoate, OvertlyEsoteric, Paillan(???)
Contents

BuildAndBrawlv1.9j (Map)

Reviews
deepstrasz
Sorry for intervening @Paillan but this map is fully functioning although the terrain hasn't much to show for itself. It's been some time and @Ulfsire updated it regularly. Plus, the holidays and all :) However, I suggest replacing the...
Level 6
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
74
Thanks for the feedback hamsamwich, and it was fun testing with you. In lieu of a more extensive mechanical rework I've tweaked some of the costs / base powers. v1.2 is up!

I'd also love to hear your thoughts on mana drain / ice spam / build-blocking mechanics - at what point does "control" become "toxic"?
 
Level 19
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
3,968
1. While builders seem balancedish, the AI is totally broken. It gets 3 free units were the player can train ony 1 at a time. With such a premise, I and my fellow tester got stomped by the AI the first game.
2. Building time seems kinda unbalanced, but that may be due to the fact that the AI gets so many creeps (which led me to feel that building times were inmense)
3. Speaking of AI (main theme) you might want to make an actual AI that doesn't cheat like crazy and actually plays the game. I know that will prove very hard, so I won't push it, but it would be very nice.
4. Some quick strategy for each builder should be given in their description for new players.
5. If you skip the intro cinematic, the quest log will not be created (intended?)
6.The terrain becomes repetitive quite quickly. Maybe you could expand the map adding more areas to play?

Overall this is actually quite a good map, and if you nerf the AI it will probably be enough to get approval, although I really recommend you that you implement other quality of life improvements. cheers!

Set to Awaiting update
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Screenshots could attract more players to download your work. Make the best of them.

A credits list is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated.

A changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

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Level 6
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
74
Thank you!

I'll try to improve what I can of the problems you described.

- a "good" AI is beyond me in the immediate future, but I can definitely tone it down. I toned it up for my friends and I, but it really should be played with 4 humans. The AI just spawns units every 30 seconds and is easily countered by timed removal or mass summoning.

- In terms of clarity, I plan on clearly marking which buildings actually train units, as this always seems confusing. Also I can give each builder a passive that contains starting strategy text, kind of like in battle royale. I could also put something in the quest log.

Anyway, I'm really happy you took the time to review my map! Thank you again!
 
Level 6
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
74
1. While builders seem balancedish, the AI is totally broken. It gets 3 free units were the player can train ony 1 at a time. With such a premise, I and my fellow tester got stomped by the AI the first game.
2. Building time seems kinda unbalanced, but that may be due to the fact that the AI gets so many creeps (which led me to feel that building times were inmense)
3. Speaking of AI (main theme) you might want to make an actual AI that doesn't cheat like crazy and actually plays the game. I know that will prove very hard, so I won't push it, but it would be very nice.
4. Some quick strategy for each builder should be given in their description for new players.
5. If you skip the intro cinematic, the quest log will not be created (intended?)
6.The terrain becomes repetitive quite quickly. Maybe you could expand the map adding more areas to play?

Overall this is actually quite a good map, and if you nerf the AI it will probably be enough to get approval, although I really recommend you that you implement other quality of life improvements. cheers!

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New version is up! I tried to respond to most of your problems. I eagerly await judgement.

1. I reduced the initial AI spawn. It now summons 1 "normal" unit every 30 seconds, increasing by 1 every 60 seconds. This is roughly equivalent to a player building a training structure every 60 seconds. The AI will also summon 1 "Big" unit every 30 seconds if it has 50 mana - the was the easiest analog I could make to a player's spellcasting, which is often used to summon big units (like golems etc.) A real AI would be much much better, I agree, but that's a long-term project and at the moment I was hoping to get this approved as a map that "should" have 4 humans.

2. From my testing with other players, I think your impression of building times probably was skewed by the swarms that AI gets. However, there are also some builders like Gardener, Diabolist and Engineer that have "slow training" units. The standard speed that most units train at is 30 seconds, which is the AI spawn interval.

3. See #1, agree with you and would love to, but that's going to take a while and I was hoping to get this approved as a pvp thing.

4. Added some in-depth strategy tips as unit abilities, as messages that display when you pick, and added general help and Base advice in the Quest log.

5. Solved, see #4

6. The early versions of this map had randomly generated terrain and trees. I actually liked it, but ran into a bug where if I generated terrain too many times (after 3-5 rounds) using random variables from an array, it would start only generating dalaran terrains (like dirt and marble) instead of the variables, like it had "forgot" that I set Terrain [1] to Ashenvale Leaves, or something, and just made dalaran dirt. If you've run into this and found a solution I'd love to hear it.

The argument for static terrain is to make it like a consistent non-distracting "court" since this map is in the style of castle fight, card shuffle, legion td. I kind of like it this way too, but if it really is too painful let me know.

In summary: I'm very grateful to you for testing this and I'm obviously very anxious to get it approved. However, it's important to me that the map is up to Hive standards, so all feedback is appreciated, and I'll try my best to solve the reasonable flaws.

May I credit you as a Tester?
 
Level 12
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Oh my goodness man. This map is a breath of fresh air. After ten thousand iterations of TDs and MOBAs finally a game with a completely unique and fun concept. I randomly decided to play this with buddies of mine, and we had an absolute BLAST. It was so fun coming up with different builder/base combos and strategies. The rounds a quick and exciting, yet there are things that block cheese and over snowballing. I have to see this is one of my favorite maps and I commend you for your excellent work. Please be sure to keep updating this because I will keep playing

5/5!

Here are just a few things I would like to see
-A all random mode
-Having the bases and builder picks hidden in the fog of war for the first 30 seconds of the game, so you can't just immediately counter your opponents
-Having the first random monster that spawns to be a little weaker. (I had a matchup against someone going mass income and I was powerless to stop him because I got two Thunder Lizards in a row that spawned infront of my base)
-Have the Tower base unable to attack the monster

Also your map is amazing :)
 
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Level 4
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Sep 25, 2009
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Just played the new version and the AI is way too weak now. It can easily be 1v2d, although with a bad human player you can 1v2 also.

I think the races are a tad more imbalanced now, but I think assassin is the power level every race should be at. Races that need buffing:

Cultist (It's based on this weird mechanic of spawning buildings which is just bad. Maybe make some way that it can actually be beneficial, or at least make the buildings not weaker than every other races)
Diablist (Just a tad under Lich)
Lich (the strongest of these IMHO)
Human (King?) (It's just a really really bad over priced warlord)
 
Level 6
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Oh my goodness man. This map is a breath of fresh air. After ten thousand iterations of TDs and MOBAs finally a game with a completely unique and fun concept. I randomly decided to play this with buddies of mine, and we had an absolute BLAST. It was so fun coming up with different builder/base combos and strategies. The rounds a quick and exciting, yet there are things that block cheese and over snowballing. I have to see this is one of my favorite maps and I commend you for your excellent work. Please be sure to keep updating this because I will keep playing

5/5!

Here are just a few things I would like to see
-A all random mode
-Having the bases and builder picks hidden in the fog of war for the first 30 seconds of the game, so you can't just immediately counter your opponents
-Having the first random monster that spawns to be a little weaker. (I had a matchup against someone going mass income and I was powerless to stop him because I got two Thunder Lizards in a row that spawned infront of my base)
-Have the Tower base unable to attack the monster

Also your map is amazing :)

Thank you! I'm delighted that you've been enjoying the map. I plan on uploading a new version (1.6) with rebalanced / reworked builders in the next couple days.

-All random mode is a planned eventual feature.
-Hiding base picks is an idea I've thought a lot about and is still in deliberation. Pros and cons.
-The Monsters could get a rework at some point. It does add a lot of randomness to the early game because some are really good against swarm rushes. I think it's interesting having an independent factor that the players have to react to. Will consider your suggestion.
-Will try to rework tower targeting for 1.6

I appreciate the feedback, and let me know if you want to be credited as a tester
 
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Okay so. Review incoming:
1. I really like the descriptive spells. They help very much to play the game. Cheers on that.
2. Right now some strategies seem really good tho, for example, mass summon strategies (such as gnolls or longheads) are extremely good, while other strategies of more quality units get easily overwhelmed. I feel like you need to adress the issue quality v/s quantity. It's not something easy to do though. My suggestion: give a cooldown to the abilities. That always avoid massive spam.
 
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@Paillan I disagree with your criticism about massing. There are so many spells/abilities/combos that gain value by being used versus swarming. In my many playthroughs with friends, trying to overwhelm with swarming almost always fails. The best strategies seem to be slowly funneling little packs of units, so AOE clear gets less value. Additionally, this means that strong single units have a very solid place in the map. There are far more AOE clear abilities than single target ones.

There are some imbalances in the map, especially in the late-game phase, but I don't believe massing is one of them.
 
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Okay so. Review incoming:
1. I really like the descriptive spells. They help very much to play the game. Cheers on that.
2. Right now some strategies seem really good tho, for example, mass summon strategies (such as gnolls or longheads) are extremely good, while other strategies of more quality units get easily overwhelmed. I feel like you need to adress the issue quality v/s quantity. It's not something easy to do though. My suggestion: give a cooldown to the abilities. That always avoid massive spam.

Thanks for reviewing! I've been trying to solve a lot of the issues you brought up. In terms of massing, Longdeads seem weak to my test group, but gnolls are definitely strong with certain builders (miner, diabolist, possibly lich).

This goal of this recent update was actually to add a lot of single powerful units and Bases / spells that benefit going "quality".

In terms of spell cooldowns, early on I decided not to have them. I want building up and "going off" to be part of the gameplay, and I prefer charges and mana as a more visible resource than cooldowns.

I have also worked very hard to add strategy tips and update the aesthetic. Let me know if there's anything I need to do to get approval. My fate is in your hands!

@Paillan I disagree with your criticism about massing. There are so many spells/abilities/combos that gain value by being used versus swarming. In my many playthroughs with friends, trying to overwhelm with swarming almost always fails. The best strategies seem to be slowly funneling little packs of units, so AOE clear gets less value. Additionally, this means that strong single units have a very solid place in the map. There are far more AOE clear abilities than single target ones.

There are some imbalances in the map, especially in the late-game phase, but I don't believe massing is one of them.

I'd love to hear what feels strong to your group. This update changes a lot / adds a lot of new broken things (hopefully not!). I do want different Builders to be strong at different points in the game, but I don't want anything to feel too dominant / oppressive unless it's a clear counter. Also, I added All Random options just for you bud!
 
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I'm enjoying the new version very much. I love the random feature. The new race is also very cool, it's particularly massing oriented, I like it :)

I'm glad. Actually the massing aspect of Count just received a buff in this new version (players felt it was too weak). Which brings me to:

New version is up, 1.6w!

Which includes another new race, Priestess (naga)

Some players wanted to know about the bug when picking Random - it has been fixed, what happened was the "random builder" was sometimes set as the new "Mode" building (because it was picking from buildings in that area) and so gave the player nothing.

Another new thing is a set of triggers that forces all units to try to kill the Monster when it's in play - this way you can't randomly aggro the monster and fight it while the enemy ignores your units and attacks your base. It also causes the Monster to move all the units around as they try to attack it which creates an interesting situation after the monster dies. This can be turned off / back on if North types -aggro

If anyone browsing the thread has feedback / suggestions / balance notes, I'd love to hear it! My playgroup can only break so much.
 
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I think a good goal at the moment would be,instead of adding new races, get it really balanced. I know in the last game I was in you talked about adding 1 wood upgrades to all the bases. I'd say do that and just have all future patches for a bit be balancing. Then get to a "prime" state before you start adding new races one at a time. I think at the moment there is a very solid selection of races.

And why isn't this approved yet? It is better than most of the stuff on here ha ha
 
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I think a good goal at the moment would be,instead of adding new races, get it really balanced. I know in the last game I was in you talked about adding 1 wood upgrades to all the bases. I'd say do that and just have all future patches for a bit be balancing. Then get to a "prime" state before you start adding new races one at a time. I think at the moment there is a very solid selection of races.

And why isn't this approved yet? It is better than most of the stuff on here ha ha

Ask and you shall receive...

New version up, 1.8

which comes with 9 new Bases
The intent for this version is a "paradigm shift", that is, more effects, Bases and spells that interact with Base life total, and hopefully new viable self-healing strategies.

There have also been many balance changes, but now there are 126 (?) new opportunities for game-breaking imbalance, so stay tuned for hotfix!

*Some players will be happy to know that infinite ghoul zombie citadel resurrect strategy has been removed.
 
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1.8 changes the game a lot, but I think it is very good. There were a lot of run-away games but nothing that made me think 'there was no way I could beat that'.

I think academy could easily be broken if used well/the right race, but you it loses to rush hard. Big units are definitely weaker now and Yurt may be too strong in late game because it has no restriction like necropolis does. I think Mesmer may be too weak possible? Or at least there aren't any viable strats besides start with your wizard tower.
 
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1.8 changes the game a lot, but I think it is very good. There were a lot of run-away games but nothing that made me think 'there was no way I could beat that'.

I think academy could easily be broken if used well/the right race, but you it loses to rush hard. Big units are definitely weaker now and Yurt may be too strong in late game because it has no restriction like necropolis does. I think Mesmer may be too weak possible? Or at least there aren't any viable strats besides start with your wizard tower.

To answer one of your concerns, New Version 1.8c+d puts a limit of 30 on all units (not just longdead).

As for mesmer, they're still so strong once they go off, especially if they skip the citadel (making them vulnerable early), that I think their "viable strats" has more to do with what their ally does. Citadel protects you from an early rush, but if your ally is Dwarf or something, then you're free to max out those Troves and become truly obscene.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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Sorry for intervening @Paillan but this map is fully functioning although the terrain hasn't much to show for itself.
It's been some time and @Ulfsire updated it regularly. Plus, the holidays and all :)

However, I suggest replacing the Defense/Survival and Offense tags with Strategy/Risk.

More arena/game types would be interesting.
Definitely, a fun map to play with others.

Approved.
 
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Sorry for intervening @Paillan but this map is fully functioning although the terrain hasn't much to show for itself.
It's been some time and @Ulfsire updated it regularly. Plus, the holidays and all :)

However, I suggest replacing the Defense/Survival and Offense tags with Strategy/Risk.

More arena/game types would be interesting.
Definitely, a fun map to play with others.

Approved.

Go ahead. I was about to do it tomorrow. I just had forgot.
 
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Hey there! Played the map today with some friends and had a lot of fun!
At one point we had a face-off that lasted forever when I went Cultist using the Strangle(?) plant and tried to counter the Zombie builder with Angry Dead. At one point, the Zombie builder just started demolishing his buildings in order to spam zombies. Using Evil Seed to counter it and demolishing my own buildings to keep up my stacks, often lagged everyone in the game when reaching max limit on Zombies and Angry Dead every time! The game kept going because another player kept spamming Thunder! The game eventually ended when the Gardener builder switched his build to do random damage to player bases but it was a stalemate for such a long time! Hilarious but a bit painful.
 
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Sorry for intervening @Paillan but this map is fully functioning although the terrain hasn't much to show for itself.
It's been some time and @Ulfsire updated it regularly. Plus, the holidays and all :)

However, I suggest replacing the Defense/Survival and Offense tags with Strategy/Risk.

More arena/game types would be interesting.
Definitely, a fun map to play with others.

Approved.

Go ahead. I was about to do it tomorrow. I just had forgot.

This made my night! Happy holidays!

Terraining is definitely on the agenda. My poor imagination has been devoted to anticipating cheesy strats.

Changed the tags.

Hey there! Played the map today with some friends and had a lot of fun!
At one point we had a face-off that lasted forever when I went Cultist using the Strangle(?) plant and tried to counter the Zombie builder with Angry Dead. At one point, the Zombie builder just started demolishing his buildings in order to spam zombies. Using Evil Seed to counter it and demolishing my own buildings to keep up my stacks, often lagged everyone in the game when reaching max limit on Zombies and Angry Dead every time! The game kept going because another player kept spamming Thunder! The game eventually ended when the Gardener builder switched his build to do random damage to player bases but it was a stalemate for such a long time! Hilarious but a bit painful.

Haha...I'm glad the stalemate was broken. Situations like that can be comical. There used to be a time when Longdead had no limit.

I'm always concerned about unwinnable draws or completely unbeatable strategies. Would love to hear it if you discover any. It seemed like your Gardener found his direct damage. The recent versions have been all about adding ways to heal your Base, kill units and directly damage other Bases to shift the meta away from mass rushing. The danger is that things are pushed too far into stagnant lategame combos. Also a Dwarf and a Cultist in one match pretty much guarantees a long round (depending on what they do).

Anyway, glad you guys had fun! Hopefully there was more hilarity than pain...

Which bring me to the new version, 1.8f
Which tries to balance out the dreadful Cursed Manor Hut and reworks King and Warlord.
 
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Oh I forgot! Since the surrender button is in the same location as Cancel on the builder, I've accidentally surrendered a couple of times. Would you be able to change this in a future release?
 
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Any ETA on the next update?

Big update (new builder) could be coming soon, depends on my other projects really. Thanks for the interest!

I think demolish needs to be removed and spells that heal base need to be reworked to not heal bases.

I do agree that demolish is an imperfect mechanic. It's mostly there for players when they mess up placement. I am however very interested in what the game would be like if it was impossible to keep building. I might upload a version with that.

Is the healing you find most egregious the recent stuff (certain new Bases, cultist and dwarf)? It's been there from the beginning in Gardener / King, but less...extreme. The reason why more healing has been added is A. to allow more spells that damage your own base, B. to turn base life into a kind of resource and C. to give a potential late-game option that beats midrange whittling.

Interested in your thoughts on this stuff.
 
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Well, from my group of play we found out that the Necropolis/Cultist strangling fruit build is very hard to counter. And as far as healing goes, matches boil down to who can heal and burst more, Dwarf with Thunder/Carpentry vs Cultist Strangling Fruit is one of the most boring things to sit through, as most of the time my play group will keep going infinite with demolish, base healing, and gold gain. If healing needs to be in the game still, I would think about maybe reducing the scaling, or have Cultist's heal only heal for a fixed amount. We all really enjoy this game, it just needs to be a bit more balanced. Thanks for getting back to me.
 
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Well, from my group of play we found out that the Necropolis/Cultist strangling fruit build is very hard to counter. And as far as healing goes, matches boil down to who can heal and burst more, Dwarf with Thunder/Carpentry vs Cultist Strangling Fruit is one of the most boring things to sit through, as most of the time my play group will keep going infinite with demolish, base healing, and gold gain. If healing needs to be in the game still, I would think about maybe reducing the scaling, or have Cultist's heal only heal for a fixed amount. We all really enjoy this game, it just needs to be a bit more balanced. Thanks for getting back to me.

Thanks man! I appreciate the feedback.

One of my playtesters likes to go academy (upgrade from nexus) cultist - one time got 7,000 stacks of evil seed but then accidentally killed himself with a slime advance.

This recent update capped strangling fruit damage, could probably cap healing too. I'm thinking of increasing the building / mana costs a bit for dwarf mill and storm cage, since you're right, if dwarf and cultist are picked then it's guaranteed to be one of "those" games, although we've found that going only removal and healing is often countered by the continuous massing of hut / tavern nonsense.

I'm very interested in the implications of removing demolish. I'm thinking I'll remove it by default, but allow it to be enabled through voting. I like the idea of there being an absolute limited resource for all players in the form of building space. It forces income spammers to have a thought out plan.

Happy you guys have been having fun. Always love talking balance.
 
Level 12
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Hey man, still loving your map and I play it with my friends whenever we go on a WC3 session. One thing though, in the newer version, one of the bases' ability, that does dmg to all every time you train mana kinda ruins the game. Once you get like 4 mana or something, the game is forced into an eternal stalemate. Had a round last for like 40 minutes + because one guy had that base and the other had an ability that would repair his base. I think you should look into that.
 
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Hey man, still loving your map and I play it with my friends whenever we go on a WC3 session. One thing though, in the newer version, one of the bases' ability, that does dmg to all every time you train mana kinda ruins the game. Once you get like 4 mana or something, the game is forced into an eternal stalemate. Had a round last for like 40 minutes + because one guy had that base and the other had an ability that would repair his base. I think you should look into that.

It shall be done.
 
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It shall be done.

Version 1.9a is up!

-still need to change preview image, haha
-a balance update focusing on Bases, with some added features
-Carpentry mana cost 75 -> 125
-Storm Riders charges 1 -> 2
-Storm Cage gold cost 575 -> 675
-Engineer units (but not Base) with Armaments can now target Monsters with missiles
-Plague Ritual mana cost 125 -> 150
-Abomination and Magnataur no longer vulnerable to magic
-Huntress magic resist 75% -> 50%
-Fire Node now does 5 damage to 3 random units when you produce mana, can target the same unit more than once
-Temple now summons a healing Priest when you construct a building
-Crusade now increases the max life and mana of all friendly units
-Yurt now deals direct damage to an enemy Base when you train a unit
-Water Node and Tavern set to 4 lumber
-Academy life 300 -> 200
-Tabernacle healing 5 -> 10
-Celestial now gives Brilliance Aura to friendly units and builders
-Demolish gold cost 300 -> 600
-Each player is given a random name
-Every round, each team is given a random name
-players can vote for "fixed teams," which locks the current teams for future rounds (a requested feature for premade games with friends, obviously the game won't end in this mode if two players always have the same wins)
 
Absolutely love the game! Our group plays it nearly daily.
Just a few issues i've noticed in the games though,
1) Fixed teams doesn't allow you to win at 5 wins, says it's a tie and brings win count up to 6.
2) Bottom base doesn't have the same entrance pillars as the rest.
3) Random builders should not allow the same character back to back, or at least a limit of 2x in a row. (Random can result in the same builder for up to 5 rounds in a row)

Great job once again.
 
Level 4
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Absolutely love the game! Our group plays it nearly daily.
Just a few issues i've noticed in the games though,
1) Fixed teams doesn't allow you to win at 5 wins, says it's a tie and brings win count up to 6.
2) Bottom base doesn't have the same entrance pillars as the rest.
3) Random builders should not allow the same character back to back, or at least a limit of 2x in a row. (Random can result in the same builder for up to 5 rounds in a row)

Great job once again.

Haha nice observations. All known things that are going to be changed. Glad you guys enjoy it! What are some good/strong/complex strategies you guys use?
 
That’s great to hear! Looking forward to the next update.

Since you asked for some, I’ll just drop my thoughts on every builder.

Dwarf: Has a great dual function for both builds you suggest, mixing in early gold mines is often a great strategy as well if your ally is able to defend.

Priestess: She is scary because of her wrath of the chosen ability, as well as her salamanders. Overall, I find her to be one of the top tier mid-late game builders.

Count: I dislike this builder, perhaps I am using him wrong, but his early game potential is high, only if your humans can live long enough to turn into wolves. It would be great if you could summon a more tanky unit as an ability from a building you would not typically build on him, in order to have a higher cost – high reward as an option.

Mesmer: Amazing capability without even producing continuing units, the nexus + illusion spam is unmatched. His other build options are also fun as well, leaving me with nothing negative to say about this hero.

Lich: Dominates early game with the death coil ability, controls all early monsters that spawn for the extra income. Swarming builders are strong in general, and do not have many builders who counter.

King: I absolutely dread the day I random this builder, I find his costs way too high, as well as the abilities he gets for his early game are relatively garbage – spawn a champion, for example, is one of the weakest units on the map.

Warlord: He is tolerated, though typically only good against early hordes of longdeads/gnolls due to cleave. His abilities/effects from supporting structures seem to not be to scale, such as his torch ability to passively burn bases is not a good strategy at all, due to the number of builders/bases that can heal.

Cryomancer: One of the best supports, due to the Glacier + Mass Freeze spam combo. However, he is quite overpowered with the mass freeze only costing 50 mana. He gains mana very, very fast due to only building freezes, and causes this build to be almost unstoppable if paired with another aggressive builder. I would suggest making his freeze ability cost around 100, if only for the late game spam to have a few seconds of delay between casts.

Diabolist: His acolyte + lesser demon + gnoll hut combo is great, as most of the spamming builders are. His backup abilities are also unique, making him fun to play with any team mate builder selection.

Gardener: For the most part, everyone I play with dislikes, because in all-random he can hardly function if he is not supporting another aggressive/top-tier builder. Perhaps he has potential in a choice-pick battle for synergy, but I have only had one build different than you suggested work for him more than once.

Miner: He is quite static, but at the same time dynamic due to the accessory buildings you can choose to place next to his burrows. It would be interesting to see a higher HP unit that is build-able, such as a cave-cow continuous spawner. His spam feels forced, as burrows are the only unit producing building he has. – And his burrow count gold return ability is too good late game to not work with the burrow build.

Cultist: Absolutely a joy when using the strangling fruit, but also has fun back up builds if enemies spamming is not apparent. The jellies + evolution is unique and worth the costs.

Assassin: The apothecary + spider build is great, but her second option to spawn satyr revelrys is, by comparison, absolutely horrid ;p - I try to manage this build different ways but it feels impossible to sustain, the satyrs are generally just way too weak.

Engineer: Many fun plays on this character, and the fact units start out with very low hp but a high ceiling for repair makes repair a fun ability, especially when used with nexus.

My personal favorite builds are with the Diabolist, Engineer, Cultist and Mesmer.


A few other misc suggestions, some for balance, some for memes:
1) The option for a FFA of 1v1v1v1 would be fantastic.
2) When doing a 1v1v1, the person who spawns in the middle of the two opposing sided bases gets hit by both first. I'm unsure how to make a suggestion for this other than splitting up units, which does not seem like the right choice.
3) Different arenas for different sized parties? Perhaps something for the future, but I think supporting up to 6-8 players on a different arena would be a welcome addition - even if only for fun, and keeping the most balanced version a 2v2.
4) Effort, but replacing the new water exterior with specific tilesets/doodads for builders through a hiding mechanic until a builder is randomed or selected would give the map a lovely environment. -- not too much to worry about here though, the map is suited just fine with the water minimalism.
5) A sped up version, with income 2x as fast, regeneration/production 2x as a fast, etc.

I hope something I listed here will assist you in ideas or balancing in the future. Keep up the fantastic work!

edit: forgot to mention, it would be great to have at least the first 3 letters of player names in parenthesis before the randomized name you give each color/ an option to show the real name instead.
 
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That’s great to hear! Looking forward to the next update.

Since you asked for some, I’ll just drop my thoughts on every builder.

Dwarf: Has a great dual function for both builds you suggest, mixing in early gold mines is often a great strategy as well if your ally is able to defend.

Priestess: She is scary because of her wrath of the chosen ability, as well as her salamanders. Overall, I find her to be one of the top tier mid-late game builders.

Count: I dislike this builder, perhaps I am using him wrong, but his early game potential is high, only if your humans can live long enough to turn into wolves. It would be great if you could summon a more tanky unit as an ability from a building you would not typically build on him, in order to have a higher cost – high reward as an option.

Mesmer: Amazing capability without even producing continuing units, the nexus + illusion spam is unmatched. His other build options are also fun as well, leaving me with nothing negative to say about this hero.

Lich: Dominates early game with the death coil ability, controls all early monsters that spawn for the extra income. Swarming builders are strong in general, and do not have many builders who counter.

King: I absolutely dread the day I random this builder, I find his costs way too high, as well as the abilities he gets for his early game are relatively garbage – spawn a champion, for example, is one of the weakest units on the map.

Warlord: He is tolerated, though typically only good against early hordes of longdeads/gnolls due to cleave. His abilities/effects from supporting structures seem to not be to scale, such as his torch ability to passively burn bases is not a good strategy at all, due to the number of builders/bases that can heal.

Cryomancer: One of the best supports, due to the Glacier + Mass Freeze spam combo. However, he is quite overpowered with the mass freeze only costing 50 mana. He gains mana very, very fast due to only building freezes, and causes this build to be almost unstoppable if paired with another aggressive builder. I would suggest making his freeze ability cost around 100, if only for the late game spam to have a few seconds of delay between casts.

Diabolist: His acolyte + lesser demon + gnoll hut combo is great, as most of the spamming builders are. His backup abilities are also unique, making him fun to play with any team mate builder selection.

Gardener: For the most part, everyone I play with dislikes, because in all-random he can hardly function if he is not supporting another aggressive/top-tier builder. Perhaps he has potential in a choice-pick battle for synergy, but I have only had one build different than you suggested work for him more than once.

Miner: He is quite static, but at the same time dynamic due to the accessory buildings you can choose to place next to his burrows. It would be interesting to see a higher HP unit that is build-able, such as a cave-cow continuous spawner. His spam feels forced, as burrows are the only unit producing building he has. – And his burrow count gold return ability is too good late game to not work with the burrow build.

Cultist: Absolutely a joy when using the strangling fruit, but also has fun back up builds if enemies spamming is not apparent. The jellies + evolution is unique and worth the costs.

Assassin: The apothecary + spider build is great, but her second option to spawn satyr revelrys is, by comparison, absolutely horrid ;p - I try to manage this build different ways but it feels impossible to sustain, the satyrs are generally just way too weak.

Engineer: Many fun plays on this character, and the fact units start out with very low hp but a high ceiling for repair makes repair a fun ability, especially when used with nexus.

My personal favorite builds are with the Diabolist, Engineer, Cultist and Mesmer.


A few other misc suggestions, some for balance, some for memes:
1) The option for a FFA of 1v1v1v1 would be fantastic.
2) When doing a 1v1v1, the person who spawns in the middle of the two opposing sided bases gets hit by both first. I'm unsure how to make a suggestion for this other than splitting up units, which does not seem like the right choice.
3) Different arenas for different sized parties? Perhaps something for the future, but I think supporting up to 6-8 players on a different arena would be a welcome addition - even if only for fun, and keeping the most balanced version a 2v2.
4) Effort, but replacing the new water exterior with specific tilesets/doodads for builders through a hiding mechanic until a builder is randomed or selected would give the map a lovely environment. -- not too much to worry about here though, the map is suited just fine with the water minimalism.
5) A sped up version, with income 2x as fast, regeneration/production 2x as a fast, etc.

I hope something I listed here will assist you in ideas or balancing in the future. Keep up the fantastic work!

edit: forgot to mention, it would be great to have at least the first 3 letters of player names in parenthesis before the randomized name you give each color/ an option to show the real name instead.

My man! Thanks for the feedback. Actually just updated this page to the most current version.

Haha, yes, Mass Freeze can be very oppressive. With King, I might suggest Bazaar Market into a central Castle and possible Mercenary rush, or the classic Blacksmith + Altars of Light with Lodge + Champions + upgraded Bloodthirst. There has been much recent success with an early Barracks + Blacksmith with Hut and going "value footmen." And of course, the Monolith Farm with 1-2 Dreamcatcher strategy is always oppressive, at least with those I play with.

I love hearing about the way others are playing, and what ends up being OP. Glad you're enjoying it!
 
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