15:55, 3rd Apr 2013
Orcnet: map updated, approved

I think you should take my advices. You MUST improved your description. You can use BB Code or check it out here. This map should get approved but you must do something to get it approved. Nah,...I forget already. You should add a few screenshots or videos. It is important,dude. Good luck,my friend!

EDIT: Congrats! You're map got approved

I'll probably add all that a little later but I just wanted to get the map up first. I could also use a bit of gameplay feedback to make it better.

You MUST improved your description

Click to expand...

u really need do this :x

about the map
- the blood thrower is bad
- Aviary Beacon ! o way gate ? u are crazy is so bad
- wretched is not part of the blood elves but from Undead Scourge
- Fel Beast ? try put one better unit

u can use this models of blood elves,this building model is so more good
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=93362

High Elves? Kewl. 4/5. But of course! Make the description Interesting

The choise of models could be better; the customness of the race could be highier

I don't understand what you mean, I have used plenty of suitable custom models where necessary if I simply spammed custom models/icons I think it would detract from it as only some models follow a particular style.

Future Updates: I will be ensuring that each hero has at least two custom abilities. I might add an entirely new unit as well; if you want you can guess what it will be.

Footman16 said:

if you want you can guess what it will be.

Click to expand...

i do not


Several heroes do not have glows, some models do not quiet fit each other's style.

give me an example of a unit that doesn't quite fit and what heroes don't have glows. Also, have you actually played the map. The heroes do have glows in game or should have.

About the guessing that was less directed at you and more at anybody else who is reading this.

Is there anything else you want to point out apart from the models like gameplay for example?

Woah! Blood Elves! I like your map.
But Blood Elves never has Fel Beast and wretched because they're not from human. You need to choose other, such as Eversong Lynx or Dragonhawk,...
Your AI you need is in http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/requests-341/blood-elf-ai-232492/#post2313473.

how can i choose blood elf race?

Dude, where did you get those building models? I've tried to find them everywhere!

I got the Blood Elf buildings from Wc3C which can be found easily if you type it into google.

About the Wretched I just wanted to include them so think of it like the Blood Elves enslaved them. BLood Elves use Warlocks, Warlocks use Fel Beasts so think of it less as a demon and more as a pet.

About the AI thank you and +rep. To choose Blood Elves go Human and set handicap to 90%.

If there is anything i can say, it is your blood elf is... a little bit weak compare to the four standard races. Basically, there armor is medium including melee and tank units which make them too easy to remove from play by other melee units of other forces. They have high damage, well i agree but it does not change much. The other players too obviously will pay more attention on units that have normal attack.

The wretched is an more interesting story. I spend a price that almost equal to a ghoul and they have unarmed armor which makes them favorite targets for rangers and siege units. An army of archer-huntress or ghoul-crypt fiend or grunt-troll headhunter or human-rifleman will turn my most beloved elves into red-light district's employees.

If i play with my friends i can be sure with you, whenever i pick the blood elves they will come to my base like flood from the early game. Keeping the elves alive is a difficult work and they are expensive units, this just makes thing worse. The heroes do not have many abilities that can help them and thing from "great" turns into "even greater". The only way i can do to ensure they not get "raped" by the other units is to come with an even larger army and eliminate their heroes as soon as possible and that does not sound so easy.

Without other type of armor, the elves depend too much on summoned units. Lava spawns? Sure, they are good IF I HAVE MORE THAN 2 IN EARLY COMBATS. Councilor's wretched? Yeah, my favorite with 4/6/10 units at a time and I ONLY NEED TO KILL ONE GOD DAMN SOLDIER or perhaps prepare to sacrifice a worker to get four temporarily.

I know you try to make change but sorceress and priest with chaos damage type? Seriously? You produce them in large number and use them destroy opponents' buildings and heroes? Those two units who have the damage points of a level-1 creep and the attack speed of abomination? Why, On God name, don't you give them magic damage so that they can do a little bit more efficiency at helping your girly soldiers get rid off the tank units?

Overall, i think you are having a little update but anyway there are some... false. Life Gift says it only work for 6 second this was proven wrong. Some problem with Vengeance's description about "... for 8 seconds". Description for councilor says he has Evasion ability but instead he gets Phase shift. Finally, do you realize that Absorption (yeah not Absorbtion) which is modified Death Pact will not target non-undead units?

At last, i just want to tell you one thing that do you know that your heroes are really weak at first and need to have units around them? If you acknowledge this you will understand that make units that are too easy to crush at early game will result in: weak units + weak heroes = no future.

All heroes are weak at the beginning, so no point there. I will probably turn absorbtion into a trigger spell as I can't seem to sort that problem. I will sort the descriptions as I am trying to get all the heroes using custom spells. You have an earlier version as well. I understand what you are saying about the melee units but you are clearly not using the spells available to you properly. Early on the blood elves own the others so that means you need to expand quickly and get the phoenixes/air units before the enemy can get Tauren etc. I will change the sorceress and priest next update. Use your head before you criticise as I will take some of what you say on board but to me it seems you are not using tactics some of the time.

Well, the point is the blood elves heroes are weaker than other heroes at the beginning (slightly). Councilor - an agility heroes who has low hit point and speed of Paladin? He does not have anything to stay alive in early game instead of continuing using Life drain or stay far behind. Phase Shift may be a good way to distract enemies but it will not hold for long and on early game i did mention your units are weak against normal attack right? Then what do you think a bunch of medium armor with a hero currently out of combat will do at the moment? Give him a little speed will you. 300 speed point will not hurt anybody even death knight is much faster than that guy with 320, an agility hero need something to chase his enemies anyway.
Blood Knight... a melee hero with many active abilities... well, the spells are very good and the fact that he has to spend time casting them will probably balance the game. No comment about him anyway.
The same with the other two although they are a little soft.

Almost forgot, archers... how about decrease their hit point and make their arrows sharper? Well, they have an ability to help them walk invisibly which make them excellent ambush units so i think we don't really need them to have high hit point.

Did you fix the Cloud upgrade? We currently can not upgrade it because it require Castle (a human structure).

After evaluating, i think i could make a short summary about the Blood elves. The race that will drain your resources as fast as they drain their own mana.

I will decrease their cost slightly, increase the councilor's speed, fix the cloud upgrade and Change the armour types a bit.

Thank you for the advice.

Bug Report
Towers can be built inside woods,just like in your other map.

Cavalry and Worker have manabars but no active/passive skill to spend it on.

Fel Engineer doesnt have any attack, when using manabomb he remains in radius effectively killing himself and since both spells are based on Death&Decay they got same base spell id thus both showing as being used when you use one at a time in UI.

The regen aura ulti you gave to Bloodmage bases on healing fountain's thus doesnt have any aura graphic. Therefore i recommend basing it on Unholy Aura instead.
Regen aura can heal hostile neutrals too.

There are some Model bugs:
Top part of Tower doesnt appear in portrait.
Bloodknight and new Archer model portrait's bug out.

Some feedback:
Giving manaburn to your most basic unit,a footman seems a bad idea.
The cavalry is completely immune to magic and a fast unit and completely identical in combat power to the human knight,this also seems a bad idea.
Fel engineer's and that battlemage's soundfiles are silly.
Wretched are useless.

The tower will be fixed, the worker and cavalry are supposed to have no use for the mana it is more for the lore. The fel engineer is supposed to work like that he is a spell siege unit with no attack. I will sort the aura as well. I can't do anything about the portraits suggestions would be helpful. The mana burn isn't a bad idea if you have used it, the cavalry aren't identical in combat power to the human the spell immunity makes them more expensive and useful as a melee unit. Also could you please explain what you mean by a "bad idea" Explain how the sound files are silly. The wretched are you're lumber workers who can serve as a last line of defence early game.

Mana burn is such a good idea that whopdidoop every caster and hero on opposite team finds itself suddenly without mana, since its your most basic unit that you will keep spamming throughout the game this is bound to happen on every confrontation, hence i called it a 'bad idea'. Translated into common sense: Mana drain needs a nerf if it has to remain.

And you are right, Belf cavalry isnt identical but superior to the human Knight since Belf version cant be nuked,dont get affected by aoe's nor can be snared or rooted by any magic and provides the same tankiness as its original. "Knights arent powerful enough, i should boost them even further so after a certain point only them should be spammed in games" have been probably your thoughts when designing this unit.

Fel Engineer has the Malfurion soundset and says im one with kalimdor etc. Battlemage has captain sounds shouts for Lordaeron when attacking etc. that i found silly.

If Wretched are supposed to be a last line of defence then i may recommend turning it into a spell found on mainbuilding like: Converts your workers in an area permanently into Wretched. Currently theyr ineffective since like everything else must be trained therefore come out of the building one by one only. Compared to Call to Arms with which you can muster a force within seconds or the orc burrows this is an rather inacceptable form of last line and rather aids the enemy via providing additional exp to feed their heroes in a dire situation than being helpful to the defender. Now i can hear you saying 'but you must mass some of them earlier' then answer me: Why would i want to get this weak unit instead anything else, for example. a footman ? considering you will always have a barracks up within first minutes of the game.

One more suggestion: Slightly up the Windwalk duration on Archer,currently its too short to setup a proper ambush.

If you had listened you would have heard me say they are your basic lumber units aswell so a multipurpose unit. The Belf cavalry, please don't insult me like that, they are quite expensive so spamming them isn't possible. About the soundsets would rather I spam the same one for them all we all make small sacrifices.

Ok. I will do this quite fast so you may need to be fast to catch up with me.

1st: If there is any do not know that wretched and crusader's mana is supply for blood knight then that person better shut.

2nd: Wretched may need some modification as below
Gold cost: from 110 to 100
Lumber cost: from 0 to 10
Level: from 2 to 1

3rd: archer's mana meld
Cooldown: become 15s
Duration: become 12s
Transition time: become 2s

4th: crusader may need to be a little more expensive
Lumber cost: 120 or more
They are not easy to kill anyway

5th: these are some suggestions for unit sound
Crusader: Captain
Sunreaver: Druid of Talon
Blood Knight: Arthas
Councilor: Kael
Fel Engineer: None (elves are not good at machine so you can make an excuse that they do not know how to make an sound box)

6th: I have two advice for Fel Engineer
_ if you want to make them suicidal units then forget the attack and increase their speed 10 point. They just need to rush into enemy base and make it look like Hiroshima anyway.
To avoid the problem of two identical base spell on one unit may be change Death and Decay of Mana Bomb into Blizzard and make some modification. If you are create a suicidal unit then you better increase its cost and build time. However, 75% hit points may be too much so may be you should change it into certain number i will suggest 600 damage.

_ If you do not want to make a terrorist then increase Mana bomb cast range and decrease its devastating power, may be 32% hit point every second and last for one second.

Sorry if i am being unreasonable, the internet just piss me off this time.

Thanks for these great suggestions will do most of these next time I get the chance.

Just putting it out there to anyone else reading this. Advice like the one this guy has just given me helps me a lot and I am more willing to listen to it than:
Thiz suckzzz -rep. Thanks for listening to my digression.

Wow I like bloody elves new building

Weigazod, one point about the Mana Grenade and Burn sharing a cooldown is that Mana Grenade is a suicide ability so it won't matter if they share the cooldown.

Soo you found the Model building pack for blood elves too ?
Warcraft Underground mby?
Nice 4/5 (Your description)

Footman16 said:

Weigazod, one point about the Mana Grenade and Burn sharing a cooldown is that Mana Grenade is a suicide ability so it won't matter if they share the cooldown.

Click to expand...

Those above are my suggestion, you do not need to do it if you think it is unnecessary.

@Master_Of_War: No not from the underground, I got them from Wc3C. Also, how could I improve my description it has BB codes, and screenies what more do you want? would a five page article suit you? joking of course.

@Weigazod: That's fine it is just because your suggestions are a lot more helpful than most.

Well, this version is so better then the previus
but i think tthat somethings still need be improve like :
- the swordman icon is a female swordman
- the worked icon is stanger use the priest icon and the priest use the original
- the archer don't have the portrait and perhaps can use the War3 archer with this skin Blood Elf Archer
- the icon of dragon hawn is high elf
- the portrait of the sunreaver unit and blood knight hero don't is fixed
- the skill mana grenade kill everything if u use in your own building and the emetu too
- sorceress icon is wrong for the skin try this Blood Elf Sorceress
- the Crusade you can use this Knight
- for the sunreaver temple use the arcane sanctuary of that pack
- the skill could can not be reserch,because need the human castle
- the blood elves don't have a siege unit

i see this for now with i find more things i contact u
here have some Blood Elves icon, like the swordman and the dragonhawn rider

For now my rate for this map is 4/5

Who could seriously tell the swordsman icon was female? I could only tell because that was what the icons name was.

Don't understand your second point but if its about the priest icon, the original priest icon is high elf not blood elf (what can I say I'm picky about lore).

Maybe I'll use that, kind of annoying though as I liked that model.

Dragon icon isn't high elf it is the original one for the blood elf unit, sucks I know.

I'm working on the portrait problem right now hope to get it fixed soon, a bit of a bummer that one.

Mana grenade is a suicide ability it is meant to be like that.

I saw that icon but couldn't be bothered using it, will add it later.

Why should I change the crusader, he looks fine.

The arcane sanctum is no longer in the pack I'm afraid I have checked Wc3c and chaos realms, no luck. If you have it then sure why not but I don't possess that model right now.

Will get round to changing that.

The fel engineer is the siege unit he uses long range spells to deal damage to buildings and units but can suicide if necessary.

Will use those icons when I get back to my computer, thanks for the great help you have provided.

My point is 75% of the targets hit point is very much. With two of them, some one can turn the table very easy, that is why i suggested to make it with other spell to make a certain amount of damage.

However, i see you did make a change so just ignore what i write above, but the description of mana grenade is still 75%

Finally, may i advice you to increase phoenix cost? Thank to the wretched lumber will not be the BE problem anymore then how about 80 Lumber?

Mana grenade is a suicide ability it is meant to be like that.

Click to expand...

but this kill every things ! kill all the pitpoints doing in the all in the area die instalantly :/

It actually only takes out 38% now with the recent update. You can banish him or cyclone etc to stop him from suiciding You can't just sit on your backside and expect to win 1 v 1 against them same goes for the Blood Elves.

For this new updated somethings are fixed, but i see some new icon aren't have the right path and become green :/

and the tower iten, is the human tower not the Blood Elf tower

What ones don't have icons? They all seem to be fine.

Footman16 said:

What ones don't have icons? They all seem to be fine.

Click to expand...

here the archer,knight , the last arrow updated and the ultra of the hero knight does't work

Will fix next update.

That should be it now tell me if you get any more problems. I think it might be the DISBTN icons playing up.

Do you use the Blood Elf AI I sent to you? In your map, I can't see Blood Elf's Actions. They only harvest :/

I tried using it but I think I have triggered it wrong, I don't know. I got a bit side tracked with my other projects when I was trying to implement it. I have made a few changes since you made it for me so maybe that's why it doesn't work.

If you have any suggestions or solutions I will try it again and see if I can get it to work. I mean it is a bit of a shame you going through all that work for me not to use it.

This is the problem in your trigger:
- You should remove this trigger:

• Melee Game - Run melee AI scripts (for computer players)

in

• Melee Initialization

And do this:

• Events
  • Map Initialization
• Conditions
  • ((Race of Player 2 (Blue)) Equal to Human) and ((Player 2 (Blue) handicap) Equal to 90.00)
• Actions
  • Player - Set Player 2 (Blue) handicap to 100.00%
  • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units owned by Player 2 (Blue) of type Peasant) and do (Actions)
    • Loop - Actions
    • Unit - Replace (Picked unit) with a Worker using The old unit's relative life and mana
  • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units owned by Player 2 (Blue) of type Town Hall) and do (Unit - Replace (Picked unit) with a Atrium using The old unit's relative life and mana
  • AI - Start Melee AI script for Player 2 (Blue): BloodElvesNormal.ai

Afterwards, you create other triggers:

• Events
  • Map Initialization
• Conditions
  • ((Race of Player 2 (Blue)) Equal to Human) and ((Player 2 (Blue) handicap) Equal to 100.00)
• Actions
  • AI - Start Melee AI script for Player 2 (Blue): Human.ai

• Events
  • Map Initialization
• Conditions
  • ((Race of Player 2 (Blue)) Equal to Orc) and ((Player 2 (Blue) handicap) Equal to 100.00)
• Actions
  • AI - Start Melee AI script for Player 2 (Blue): Orc.ai

• Events
  • Map Initialization
• Conditions
  • ((Race of Player 2 (Blue)) Equal to Undead) and ((Player 2 (Blue) handicap) Equal to 100.00)
• Actions
  • AI - Start Melee AI script for Player 2 (Blue): Undead.ai

• Events
  • Map Initialization
• Conditions
  • ((Race of Player 2 (Blue)) Equal to Night Elf) and ((Player 2 (Blue) handicap) Equal to 100.00)
• Actions
  • AI - Start Melee AI script for Player 2 (Blue): NightElf.ai

This is 5 AI: Human, Orc, Undead, Night Elf and Blood Elf. You should do all actions ditto.

Right forgot to delete that action thanks for the help.

Will probably have it implemented and updated by the end of today.

What most stunishing me is the design of each building, you're a good like architect after all.

Can I have some shoes?

The buildings are by SinisterX. Well I don't make shoes so it would be a first for me what sort of quality do you want from me I can do noobish or complete fail.

EDIT: Map updated, very nice

hi

how do u select the blood elf class, i don;t really get it

snakehus said:

how do u select the blood elf class, i don;t really get it

Click to expand...

Go human and set handicap to 90%. Don't you read description?

It seems that I have found a bug: sorceress learns no new spells after training is complete.

I will check that out.

Edit: Should be fixed now.

This is a mistake....man this guys are not blood elfs,you could use this same map but rename units into High Elfs....