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(4) Temple Field

(4) Temple Field



- Ranked 12/30 (5/30 considering Judges only) in B2W-sponsored Melee Mapping Contest
- Played in an ESL 1v1 Tournament (see B2W Mapping Contest Cup - News - Global - Warcraft | ESL Play)


Contest Entry for the [$100 Prize Pool] Melee Mapping Contest - 1v1
Submitted by TheEarthquake



Theme

This classic summery garrison of High Elves and Night Elves still boasts with splendor and grandeur through its magnificent architecture and Hansa Heritage. With marble columns, statues and floors spread throughout the landscape, discovering these lands will leave you speechless.

Short description

Varying starting positions, accessible Merc Camps combined with map layout, content, and design that lives up to the current meta’s expectations. Narrow, creep-packed center and vaster, yet relevant periphery containing the Goblin Shops and remote gold mines.
Map center includes a Market Place and a Goblin Laboratory.
Red Spots are reached by passing the Merc Camps between two starting locations.


Map Specifics


Players
2 - 4


Creep Camps
8 12 (+ 4 Starting Locations) 2


Tavern
1


Market Place
1


Goblin Laboratory
1


Goblin Merchant
2


Mercenary Camp
2


Gold Mines
6


Total Size
160 x 160


Playable Size
122 x 117


Tile set
Lordaeron Summer (customized tile set, imported turtle creeps)



Authors Notes

Being a 2v2 player, this map was inspired by my all-time favorite map (4) Turtle Rock. However, game dynamics should be different as close positions are not as close as on Turtle Rock and more neutral buildings are included. Also, battles in the center may be stressed more by its relevance – some of the best items are found here.
Eventually, I wanted to create a fully functional, balanced, and great looking melee map, that has the potential to enter competitive map pools.
For that long term goal, I consider this map as a work in progress. I am happy to make adjustments as required by competition map standards.

For the "[$100 Prize Pool] Melee Mapping Contest - 1v1", this is my final entry! Shoutouts to the sponsor Back2Warcraft for investing so much to keep our game alive! :)

Thanks to @mafe for his thorough feedback during the construction of this map. And to my long-time AT partner Myn, who is not on Hive, but gave me a lot of feedback and screenshots.

For ingame screenshots please refer to the map media.
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/albums/4-temple-field.9416/

[20/11/2017]

9/11/2017 Slight changes in positioning of Lv 17 center spots. Added trees around those spots.
9/11/2017 Some doodads added in the water. Trees added around Market Place and Goblin Lab. Some texture changes.
15/11/2017 Added two green creep camps opposite of Goblin Merchants to allow for more creep route diversity.
15/11/2017 Widened Players' bases.
15/11/2017 Slight arrangements around Goblin Lab and Market Place creep camps.
15/11/2017 Changed Starting Locations creep camps to more difficult spots and adjusted item drops.

After 1v1 Melee Map Contest Closing - evaluating judges' feedback
08/12/2017 - Fixed tree line openings
- Added trees around AoW creep spots next to bases to allow for even conditions
- Lowered non-starting position expansion gold from 20k to 15k
- Same gold mine: Changed lv3 charged item bearing creep from Lv4 Turtle to Lv6 Melee Mur'gul to prevent quick item snatches

19/12/2017 - Customized visual features (pathing) of some Doodads

20/12/2017 - Reworked non-natural expansion from Lv 16 to Lv 14 Camp removing 2x Lv 1 Murloc; still drops Lv 3 Charged Item, but no more Lv 1 Power-up
- Removed Crystal Ball from Lv5 Permanent Item Drop on Red Spots

Contents

Temple Field (Map)

Reviews
deepstrasz
Try not adding the (number) before the title in the editor's map description as the game knows how many players there are and it sets them automatically. You could make it so that players don't start near each other by using triggers from this map...
Level 4
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
20
The layout looks very similar to that of Turtle Rock.

Also, it is lacking expansions. A working map should have the number of expo that is equivalent to player number.
Hi MysteryMaze,
Thank you for your feedback. Since it is a submission for a 1v1 melee map contest, it should offer enough room for expanding in this game format.

As I am still editing my post, it might not have shown properly, so I want to point out what I mentioned in the author notes: The general layout is in fact inspired by Turtle Rock, yet, it differs in quite a few aspects - creep camp composition and placement, neutral buildings and their locations, and many more :)
 
Level 29
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
1,635
Maybe I am mistake but the contest said it was a 1vs1 melee map, so why you upload a 4 player melee map. I was looking all the maps that have been submited for the contest, and yours is only one with 4 players, I would be worried if I were you, for not doing what everybody is doing.

Sugestion: delete 2 players and edit this bundle.


my mistake thanks @mafe
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
I feel the need to defend @TheEarthquake here a little bit.
The layout looks very similar to that of Turtle Rock.

Also, it is lacking expansions. A working map should have the number of expo that is equivalent to player number.
Are you saying that a two player should have two expanions in total? The majority of the maps doesnt work that way, and those who do (Ei, AI, AZ) are the most boring maps in the mappool. See below.
Maybe I am mistake but the contest said it was a 1vs1 melee map, so why you upload a 4 player melee map. I was looking all the maps that have been submited for the contest, and yours is only one with 4 players, I would be worried if I were you, for not doing what everybody is doing.

Sugestion: delete 2 players and edit this bundle.
This was discussed in the contest-thread. More than two spawns are allowed, but the map will only be judged based on it's validity as a map for 1v1.
Ah. There's no rule regarding the amount of starting locations. So yes, maps can be up to 4 or more players but it will only be judged as 1v1 balance criteria, of course.
TM and TR are the oldest and (imho) still the best maps that are played competitively, and they also feature 4 starting positions, and a large number of gold mines. In fact, I would argue that this is very much working in their favor, as the maps are less predictable. A good player can adapt to the situation, and as such the unknown variable of spawning positions adds depth (as long as all permutations are balanced).

This map is one of the best in the contest of those I've seen, and I will definitely consider it when casting my vote (provided that, as a competitor myself, I am allowed to vote at all).
 
Level 4
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
20
I feel the need to defend @TheEarthquake here a little bit.

Are you saying that a two player should have two expanions in total? The majority of the maps doesnt work that way, and those who do (Ei, AI, AZ) are the most boring maps in the mappool. See below.

This was discussed in the contest-thread. More than two spawns are allowed, but the map will only be judged based on it's validity as a map for 1v1.

TM and TR are the oldest and (imho) still the best maps that are played competitively, and they also feature 4 starting positions, and a large number of gold mines. In fact, I would argue that this is very much working in their favor, as the maps are less predictable. A good player can adapt to the situation, and as such the unknown variable of spawning positions adds depth (as long as all permutations are balanced).

This map is one of the best in the contest of those I've seen, and I will definitely consider it when casting my vote (provided that, as a competitor myself, I am allowed to vote at all).

@mafe Wow thank you, that is very kind of you :)
I can understand peoples' concerns but I am confident to not have violateed the contest rules.

I must say that just bursting out with associations that may not be used to improve the work of others is not very helpful and I honestly do not see the point in doing that. I am open to any constructive feedback and concerns but please be considerate.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 68
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,706
Try not adding the (number) before the title in the editor's map description as the game knows how many players there are and it sets them automatically.
You could make it so that players don't start near each other by using triggers from this map: Skeletal Coast v1.3

1. I think the expansion mine (20k) protectors are too weak.
2. Terrain is pretty much flat in most parts.

It's melee ready although not original in terms of looks. Even if it would be a Turtle Rock edit, I could not prove it and the differences are significant.

Approved
.

===================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

If you want more reviews, come here:
The Grand Review Exchange!
 
Level 10
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
160
I feel the need to defend @TheEarthquake here a little bit.

Are you saying that a two player should have two expanions in total? The majority of the maps doesnt work that way, and those who do (Ei, AI, AZ) are the most boring maps in the mappool. See below.

This was discussed in the contest-thread. More than two spawns are allowed, but the map will only be judged based on it's validity as a map for 1v1.

TM and TR are the oldest and (imho) still the best maps that are played competitively, and they also feature 4 starting positions, and a large number of gold mines. In fact, I would argue that this is very much working in their favor, as the maps are less predictable. A good player can adapt to the situation, and as such the unknown variable of spawning positions adds depth (as long as all permutations are balanced).

This map is one of the best in the contest of those I've seen, and I will definitely consider it when casting my vote (provided that, as a competitor myself, I am allowed to vote at all).


I don't agree with you. The ones you mentioned (EI, AI, AZ) are typical 2-way maps, so it is not strange to have 2 expansions in total. But this is a 4-way map. 2 expansions area for a 4-way map? Look at TM, TR. They all have at least 4 expansion areas. I can't even imagine TM and TR having only 2 expo. Even if it's designed for 1v1, the map should have enough gold mines in case it holds full players. A good 4-way map should be able to be played both as 1v1 and 2v2.
 
Last edited:
Level 4
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
20
Try not adding the (number) before the title in the editor's map description as the game knows how many players there are and it sets them automatically.
You could make it so that players don't start near each other by using triggers from this map: Skeletal Coast v1.3

1. I think the expansion mine (20k) protectors are too weak.
2. Terrain is pretty much flat in most parts.

It's melee ready although not original in terms of looks. Even if it would be a Turtle Rock edit, I could not prove it and the differences are significant.

Approved
.

===================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

If you want more reviews, come here:
The Grand Review Exchange!


Thanks @deepstrasz for your feedback and the approval! :plol:

I would like to point out what I think about your points:

-I think close positions is an option that makes match-ups rather interesting and adds diversity over mere 1v1 maps where location scouting is no issue.
-Comparing to other maps, Lv 16 creep camp for a goldmine should be okay?
-Well flat terrain is a way of designing maps and a decision on needs to make on every new map :D I think rating that positively or negatively is not really possible - suppose the expansions had +1 cliff - would that make the map better? Or worse? It would certainly make the map less flat, but I think it would bear advantages in certain and disadvantages in other situations.

- What exactly do you mean by "original"?

Thanks for pointing out that the map IS different from TR! :D And for telling me where to go for more feedback.

Also one more question: Is it possible to upload a new version with the (4) in the Editor Map Name deleted, or does it take new approval? Because for the contest, I think I need an approved map?
 
Level 4
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
20
Not talking about cliffs but the lowering and raising terrain tool.

Editing can be done after the contest result if you edit after the deadline.

Thanks for the hint @deepstrasz

For clarification, how would raising starting bases or expansions by 25% (for example) make the map better? I am curious and really want to learn more about creating melee terrain!
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 68
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,706
For clarification, how would raising starting bases or expansions by 25% (for example) make the map better?
You don't have to only or necessarily raise those regions. Look at BlizzEnt melee maps and you'll see they have a somewhat natural terrain layout. Flat isn't real but in your city or something. If you go outside to the woods, you'll see the terrain/soil isn't flat.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
Thanks for the hint @deepstrasz

For clarification, how would raising starting bases or expansions by 25% (for example) make the map better? I am curious and really want to learn more about creating melee terrain!
I think it is mostly about visual stuff. It doesnt directly impact gameplay, but making terain slightly different in heights makes it "less stressful" to look at. Also it can help to make parts of the map more distinct and makes it clearer to understand where exactly on the map you are and as a consequence, to judge distances.
Take TM for example: The map is almost completely green for the most parts. But he main bases are higher than the surrounding area, so it just tells you "if you go that way, you will soon be in the safety of your base" or "from here it is just a few more seconds until the black citadel will start shooting you". Yes, you couldve known this anway, but the elevation acts as an additional reminder.
Or more generall, many people raise the ground near forests. So even if you looking at a part of the map where you dont see trees, you might still see the change in terrain height and remember "ah there's trees up there, maybe I should not move into this direction".
 
Level 4
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
20
Thank you both - I think I better understood what you mean.
Referring to BlizzEnt Maps: From my former understanding I argue that e. g. Echo Isles is also mostly flat... But you are referring to certain areas, right? That means, that in my map, a single forest is about the same height. But in fact, it might look nicer if there is variation in height in a certain area of my map, for example a forest.

Thanks guys, you're always taking the time to make things better around here - love it :)
 
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