To the Bitter End

[tyci]

I played through your whole campaign and I must say it is clear how much time and effort you put into it. I really enjoyed it even though it had a few drawbacks. So here are my thoughts on your campaign:

Spoiler: Thoughts

Overrall:

• The Companions are really boring characters unfortunately. Every one of them is just lawfully good, being extremely polite all the time, even when they are angry. The only one slightly different than the others is Fei. I would like to see more of their backstory mentioned as well. I know its in the manual, but you could maybe add an Interlude scene where they are sitting around a campfire just talking.
• Also we are told they are friends, but it doesn't really feel like it. For me it seemed like they just happen to travel together. Make them interact with each other more often, maybe share a few laughs or just anything beyond regular conversation about the plot or helping someone. We got something like this once, after the chapter where you rescued Sera- when she asked Soul Reaver is he okay, and there was something about him killing his parents or something, I don't remember exactly.
• Its nice how you made everyone talk in advanced english but should the orcs speak that way as well?
• I think you could use a bit more custom models for the important characters. They really make you loose immersion in your world. For example you rescue Sera and oh, it's Sylvanas. Or you fight one of the Warlords and oh look its Anubarak.
• I have seen the portal death & birth animation so many times now xd
• There is no music at all during cinematics. I would put some of the Wc3 music in there if I were you.
• The music in most of the chapters was just horrendous, really. I mean the ones where it was some rock music, which sounded really out of place, more like from some anime opening. In some missions you put more fitting medieval/video game/epic music which was way better. I didn't know you could turn off the music until a few chapters in. Play it through its correct audio channel ( music not sound). Also maybe put a tip in game about turning music off, or put a tips quest in the quest log.
• Chapters 2-5 have a repetitive draft. Its go save the locals, find your companion along the way and the companion wants to kill the evil guy which made the locals suffer.
• Fei was definitely the most fun for me to play. All his skills are quick, easy to use and fit his character.
• The bosses of chapters 1-6 all have some small tactic involved, but if you don't kill them quick enough you are sure to die. So it just gets down to nuking them with all companions' ultimate abilities as fast as you possibly can.

Chapter 1:

• First thing I want to mention is the names/titles. Soul Reaver and Slayer are the most generic sounding titles anyone can think of. Its okay if its a side character, but a main character should never have a name like that.
• I enjoyed the beginning and how you couldnt fight anyone and had to avoid combat.
• There is a room later on, which if you enter you get a cinematics and its instant defeat.
• All of Soul Reavers spells are really awesome looking and fun to use!

Chapter 2:

• I understand that Fei is a vampire and he is killing those people thats understandable, but why is he burning down buildings
• In this mission there are so many enemies to go through, it gets really boring
• Standing 10 minutes waiting for a door to open constantly fighting enemies isnt fun

Chapter 3:

• Nice chase scene at the beginning.
• Cameron Aileron- don't make rhyming names please
• And why is he a space marine? It doesnt really fit the theme? It seems like its a fantasy world and he is the only one with futuristic stuff
• Cameron has the most boring skills compared to all of the companions.

Chapter 4:

• Kitharsis' shaman mask is a really pointless item as he can just use the tent. At least make it so he can use it without being asleep. (but still non-combat)
• He is the weakest of the companions, deals really poor dps compared to others.

Chapter 5:

• Waves sometimes stop moving in front of the base or even go back sometimes.
• This chapter is easier than the rest
• Really liked how Sera shot the succubus and the camera followed the arrow, well done there.

Chapter 6:

• A really nice chapter, nothing to add here

Chapter 7:

• When fighting the Warlords they sometimes heal randomly even when not picking up the runes. How does it work? And is there a way to stop them from getting the runes?
• Make the boss arenas visible regions.
• I liked the Dark Knight reference
• You are doing the same thing 5 times in this mission; you go to the boss, on the way you fight some minions, you meet the boss, he tells you his life story, then there is the part where you have the crystal and the warlord is shocked, but still determined, there's the fight (its the same tactic in every one of them), and then repeat x5. Please spice things up a bit here. Maybe make one of the companions die? Or at least fail? Just a thought
• Soul Reaver is overly polite when talking with Maelstrom (Warlord calls him worthless and he responds that its most inappropriate xd)

Chapter 8:

• I really don't like how Slayer comes out of nowhere to explain what's going on and when he finishes he immediately "dies". Creating characters which are there solely for moving the story forward is a very cheap way of doing that. Maybe make Soul Reaver explain as he know about the void a little bit. ( I think)
• Neat effect on the void explanation, but it itself is very complex.
• Make the arena visible here as well as sometimes Morganem teleported somewhere and I had to search for a long time to find him.
• Don't name the items Mana Shards if they restore health as well! Especially when it is the first time you use these items. You don't have time here to read the items description.
• The whole fight overrall was really fun, died a lot of times but still enjoyed it!
• The cinematic how each of the companions attacked him one by one was really fucking epic man. Great job!
• The epilogue cinematic was also cool- nice to see how the other characters do after finishing our quest. Also the head bow from the red orcs was also badass looking, but still not sure why they didn't kill the Companions, as they killed so many of their kind.

I'm sorry if I mainly pointed out the things that I didn't enjoy. Obviously I really liked the whole campaign (I wouldnt play it otherwise ) and these are the only things that bugged me. Can't wait to see some more of your projects, maybe outside of Warcraft now

 

[Soul Reaver]

Hi tyci, thanks for your thoughts! I'll address your comments below. But before I start, it's important to understand what I mean when I refer to 'The Administorum'. The setting and characters in To the Bitter End are based on the setting and characters from a tandem story/freeform RPG that has been running for several years at a website called The Administorum. It's kind of like Dungeons and Dragons, except that the players take turns being the Dungeon Master, and there are no stats or dice rolling - just a story we all write together.

Soul Reaver, Slayer, Kitharsis, Cameron Aileron, Fei Serumen and Sera Poi are all protagonists from The Administorum, and all of these characters were invented by different people (Soul Reaver being my character). I had permissions from all the other people to use their characters in the capacity I used them for in To the Bitter End.

Spoiler

Overrall:

• The Companions are really boring characters unfortunately. Every one of them is just lawfully good, being extremely polite all the time, even when they are angry. The only one slightly different than the others is Fei. I would like to see more of their backstory mentioned as well. I know its in the manual, but you could maybe add an Interlude scene where they are sitting around a campfire just talking.
  • I don't really think they're the same. Soul Reaver is very well-spoken, Cameron tends to be matter-of-fact, Kitharsis is pretty jovial, Sera is empathetic (but has a very determined streak) and Fei is a sarcastic smart-arse. Their interpretations of 'good' also vary somewhat, but yes, none of them are actively evil (since, if they were, they wouldn't be travelling together). Slayer is actually an exception - he IS evil - but the others don't know that (not here nor in The Administorum).
  • I've intentionally avoided this sort of 'relaxed talk' situation. While it would be nice to put in there, it doesn't make sense for two main reasons: firstly, the companions are under intense time pressure at all times. Initially, they have to hurry to reunite before Morganem hunts them down individually, and later they need to finish their quest before Morganem consolidates his power and becomes too strong to stop. Secondly, the companions have a long history together and most have revealed what they are comfortable revealing to each other already during the events in The Administorum, so it doesn't make sense for them to retreat that tired old ground. Additionally, I also can't make up 'new' stuff for characters (other than Soul Reaver) since I don't want to create non-canon content for characters that aren't my own invention.
  • The story is actually far more about the villains than the heroes. Part of the reason for this is that I can't really do significant 'new' character development with the heroes (eg, someone turning evil or dying) - doing so outside The Administorum would be non-canon, since those characters are still active in The Administorum, and messing with other people's character canon is a big no-no.
• Also we are told they are friends, but it doesn't really feel like it. For me it seemed like they just happen to travel together. Make them interact with each other more often, maybe share a few laughs or just anything beyond regular conversation about the plot or helping someone. We got something like this once, after the chapter where you rescued Sera- when she asked Soul Reaver is he okay, and there was something about him killing his parents or something, I don't remember exactly.
  • They aren't always friends. They often have a common goal, but they've all come to blows at least at some point (some more so than others). You'll notice that Soul Reaver very rarely uses the word 'friend', since he is reluctant to form such close emotional ties with others (living forever means he tends to lose those he cares about).
  • Soul Reaver was referring to having killed his own son, which is very much a defining moment in his own history. It's where he stopped considering himself a mortal and gave his existence over to what he saw as his duty.
• Its nice how you made everyone talk in advanced english but should the orcs speak that way as well?
  • Yes. They're not Orcs, they're Dharuk. I wanted to make it clear that despite appearing savage, they are themselves also very intelligent - generally moreso than your average mortal humans. It's one of the benefits of a long lifespan, and the reason they field so many War Mages.
• I think you could use a bit more custom models for the important characters. They really make you loose immersion in your world. For example you rescue Sera and oh, it's Sylvanas. Or you fight one of the Warlords and oh look its Anubarak.
  • I wanted to avoid using any visual material that didn't come with Warcraft 3 unless I heavily edited it or created it myself. Since my 3D modelling skills are very limited that meant no custom models. I really wanted to see how much I could do 'by myself'.
• I have seen the portal death & birth animation so many times now xd
  • Yeah, well, Warp Travel is pretty important in the setting.
• There is no music at all during cinematics. I would put some of the Wc3 music in there if I were you.
  • I don't like the Warcraft 3 music. I prefer silence to music I don't like. And some cinematics DO have music, sometimes with custom volume settings, or even specifically timed so the music coincides with certain events.
• The music in most of the chapters was just horrendous, really. I mean the ones where it was some rock music, which sounded really out of place, more like from some anime opening. In some missions you put more fitting medieval/video game/epic music which was way better. I didn't know you could turn off the music until a few chapters in. Play it through its correct audio channel ( music not sound). Also maybe put a tip in game about turning music off, or put a tips quest in the quest log.
  • The music will be divisive, but a lot of people have told me they really like the music, and personally I really like it. Also, The Administorum players often pick 'theme songs' for their characters or certain events. These are often rock/heavy metal, and NIN features heavily - I've kept the same musical style for To the Bitter End as a result.
  • I intentionally avoided putting any non-diegetic messages into the game. That sort of stuff is what the readme and manual is for.
  • I ran into so many problems using the World Editor's music channel/commands that in the end I just gave up. There were tons of bugs, including the music not cutting out/restarting when it should, or not playing anymore when you load a game. It got so bad I just gave up on using the music channel and used sound instead, which gave me way more control and never had any of the above problems.
  • However, I might consider adding a music 'volume control' command instead of just off and on. This would be very time consuming to implement but might be worth doing if I find the time.
• Chapters 2-5 have a repetitive draft. Its go save the locals, find your companion along the way and the companion wants to kill the evil guy which made the locals suffer.
  • Pretty much (well, not really in Chapter 4). It's mainly to showcase Morganem's influence in various parts of Ithia. But I'd like to think that each Chapter plays very differently.
• Fei was definitely the most fun for me to play. All his skills are quick, easy to use and fit his character.
• The bosses of chapters 1-6 all have some small tactic involved, but if you don't kill them quick enough you are sure to die. So it just gets down to nuking them with all companions' ultimate abilities as fast as you possibly can.
  • Not really true in 1, 3 or 6. In 1 you have to help others in order to win, in 3 you can't nuke the enemy because he has way too much HP and need to wear him down with repeated strikes, and in 6 you can't kill the enemy at all and have to learn to avoid them (before nuking down the towers). It definitely is true of a lot of minibosses, though in some cases it's smarter to hit and run or use summons so that they waste their Ultimates first. I feel its a failing of Warcraft 3, where hero battles are usually just nuke battles, and it's why I made the boss battles in Chapter 7 a bit different.

Chapter 1:

• First thing I want to mention is the names/titles. Soul Reaver and Slayer are the most generic sounding titles anyone can think of. Its okay if its a side character, but a main character should never have a name like that.
  • Soul Reaver had a 'normal' name once, but he refuses to be called by it (and doesn't even tell people what it is). He abandoned it when he no longer considered himself as being able to live the life of a mortal. It's symbolic of his status as an immortal hero rather than as a mortal man. It's a description of his power and designed to bring fear to his enemies.
  • Slayer was named by someone else at The Administorum. He's extremely mysterious and has never revealed much about himself to The Companions, including his real name. This is probably because the companions would not be very friendly to him if his real identity were revealed.
• I enjoyed the beginning and how you couldnt fight anyone and had to avoid combat.
• There is a room later on, which if you enter you get a cinematics and its instant defeat.
  • Yeah, those are the barracks. If you pay very close attention to the clues in the cinematics and in the map you can probably tell that you shouldn't go in there, but admittedly it's pretty harsh. I might add a warning from one of the rogues following you when you start getting close to the barracks.
• All of Soul Reavers spells are really awesome looking and fun to use!

Chapter 2:

• I understand that Fei is a vampire and he is killing those people thats understandable, but why is he burning down buildings
  • To flush people out of the buildings, of course!
• In this mission there are so many enemies to go through, it gets really boring
  • This was one of the first missions I made so it's a bit simplistic, but I felt like it wasn't too time-consuming and you get to level up and try out your new Ultimate(s) as you go along.
• Standing 10 minutes waiting for a door to open constantly fighting enemies isnt fun
  • It gives you a chance to level up first and get used to controlling two heroes together. I see it as a bit of a tutorial. When I first played it I found it difficult enough and fun, but admittedly as I got better it now doesn't seem like much of a challenge.

Chapter 3:

• Nice chase scene at the beginning.
• Cameron Aileron- don't make rhyming names please
  • This is another person's character, so it's not my choice.
• And why is he a space marine? It doesnt really fit the theme? It seems like its a fantasy world and he is the only one with futuristic stuff
  • This is explained in the manual. The setting is the Multiverse, and the heroes come from all over it. Cameron comes from a Plane and society with advanced technology.
• Cameron has the most boring skills compared to all of the companions.
  • I'm not sure I agree - Meteor Shower, Cataclysm and Psychic Onslaught are all awesome looking, and Cameron's abilities are probably some of the best in the whole game.

Chapter 4:

• Kitharsis' shaman mask is a really pointless item as he can just use the tent. At least make it so he can use it without being asleep. (but still non-combat).
  • Yeah, it's not very powerful. But it is faster and more efficient at restoring MP than the Tent. Since he has the lowest HP out of all the Companions, I've sometimes found it handy. It's fast enough (only 10 sec) that's it's realistically usable even in something close to a combat situation.
• He is the weakest of the companions, deals really poor dps compared to others.
  • Yes, his weapon DPS is bad, but his HP is by far the highest. Since Armor and Dodge don't help against spells, he's by far the best anti-spell tank you've got.
  • Plus Dark Lash is probably the best value-for-MP single-target damage spell you'll get.

Chapter 5:

• Waves sometimes stop moving in front of the base or even go back sometimes.
  • This is caused by what seems to be an unavoidable bug in Warcraft 3. The large number of units receiving orders in this map seems to cause the pathfinding AI to become sluggish. Increasing the frequency of 'orders' normally helps avoid the sort of problem you describe, but I can't do that here as the sluggishness reaches levels where it makes units hardly move at all.
• This chapter is easier than the rest
  • Personally I find 1-3 much easier.
• Really liked how Sera shot the succubus and the camera followed the arrow, well done there.

Chapter 6:

• A really nice chapter, nothing to add here

Chapter 7:

• When fighting the Warlords they sometimes heal randomly even when not picking up the runes. How does it work? And is there a way to stop them from getting the runes?
  • You can't stop them getting their runes, though you can delay them with stuns, blocking their path etc.
  • The runes work like this:
    • An orb appears. The more runes have appeared for that hero so far, the longer it takes for the next orb to appear
    • The orb is 'activated' and becomes a rune once the hero touches it
    • If a hero's health drops very low, they use up a rune (regardless of where they currently are) and their HP and MP are restored.
• Make the boss arenas visible regions.
  • No, it doesn't make sense, plus controlling sight is part of the tactics you need to use here (especially vs Eryion)
• I liked the Dark Knight reference
  • There was a Dark Knight reference?
• You are doing the same thing 5 times in this mission; you go to the boss, on the way you fight some minions, you meet the boss, he tells you his life story, then there is the part where you have the crystal and the warlord is shocked, but still determined, there's the fight (its the same tactic in every one of them), and then repeat x5. Please spice things up a bit here. Maybe make one of the companions die? Or at least fail? Just a thought
  • I find the tactics for every hero and boss vastly different. The basic events are pretty similar, but I felt this was the best (and only) chance for the villains to showcase their philosophies and motivations, and to contrast those with those of their opponent.
• Soul Reaver is overly polite when talking with Maelstrom (Warlord calls him worthless and he responds that its most inappropriate xd)
  • Think you might have misread that one. Maelstrom calls MORTALS worthless. Soul Reaver responds saying that belief is highly inappropriate for someone who wanted to guide mortals (as Morganem has been trying to do). In truth, of course, we find out here that actually Maelstrom was in disagreement with Morganem over this and just wanted to use Mortals as tools for his own benefit.
  • Soul Reaver tries to keep his feelings under tight control. If you live several millennia, lose everything you ever care about and regularly save the multiverse, it's one way to stay sane.

Chapter 8:

• I really don't like how Slayer comes out of nowhere to explain what's going on and when he finishes he immediately "dies". Creating characters which are there solely for moving the story forward is a very cheap way of doing that. Maybe make Soul Reaver explain as he know about the void a little bit. ( I think)
  • Slayer has a far bigger role than is obvious. In The Administorum, he worked for an enigmatic, extremely powerful but evil Master that none of the companions knew about. The untold backstory is that Slayer's Master has long-term plans for Ithia that he cannot realize if Uthurak destroys the Plane. As such, that Master sent Slayer to 'help' the companions. He's just using them to destroy Uthurak, so that he can later use Ithia for his own sinister purposes. What those are, of course, is unrevealed. Slayer knew from the beginning he wouldn't be strong enough to defeat Uthurak as just an astral projection, but it was no loss to him - he just wanted to make sure the companions faced him and knew what they were up against so they would try their best to win. Although Slayer's Astral Projection is destroyed, this is really just a psychic injury and isn't fatal to him - after all, you see him (the REAL him) in the epilogue, confirming Uthurak's defeat.
• Neat effect on the void explanation, but it itself is very complex.
• Make the arena visible here as well as sometimes Morganem teleported somewhere and I had to search for a long time to find him.
  • Having to find him is part of the challenge. Usually can just follow the giant purple projectiles though.
• Don't name the items Mana Shards if they restore health as well! Especially when it is the first time you use these items. You don't have time here to read the items description.
  • Reading tooltips and quest logs is something you should be doing all the time during To the Bitter End, including in the last fight. But I'll think about renaming if in case I manage to think of a name I like better.
• The whole fight overrall was really fun, died a lot of times but still enjoyed it!
• The cinematic how each of the companions attacked him one by one was really fucking epic man. Great job!
• The epilogue cinematic was also cool- nice to see how the other characters do after finishing our quest. Also the head bow from the red orcs was also badass looking, but still not sure why they didn't kill the Companions, as they killed so many of their kind.
  • There are a couple of reasons:
    • Firstly, the Dharuk respect strength greatly. The companions have just killed their Warmaster, as well as the guy who defeat that Warmaster. That makes them top dog and earns them great respect.
    • Secondly, the companions just crushed a would-be anti-God. While they don't fully know everything that went on, the Dharuk have a feeling that the companions saved them all, and that the companions are totally out of their league in terms of power.

I'm sorry if I mainly pointed out the things that I didn't enjoy. Obviously I really liked the whole campaign (I wouldnt play it otherwise ) and these are the only things that bugged me. Can't wait to see some more of your projects, maybe outside of Warcraft now

Thank you very much for playing and for taking time to write such thorough feedback!

My projects are always time consuming, but hopefully I'll have "Escape from the Depths" (working title) ready sometime soon for people to play!

 

[tyci]

Well the music a matter of personal taste, so I think it's better to put neutral video game music which people expect, instead of heavy metal, which some people (like me) just can't stand.
Maybe consider doing you next game/map about your own custom characters to allow you to do whatever you want with them, which makes the story more compelling.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Well the music a matter of personal taste, so I think it's better to put neutral video game music which people expect, instead of heavy metal, which some people (like me) just can't stand.
Maybe consider doing you next game/map about your own custom characters to allow you to do whatever you want with them, which makes the story more compelling.

I disagree - using 'neutral' music is just bland, grey and boring. In my opinion, silence is preferable. Music should underscore the actions and visuals occurring, creating a sense of isolation, desperation, anger, sadness, or whatever the case may be.

Because it's so subjective though peoples' mileage may vary. I'd prefer to keep to the music as it is - at the risk of some people preferring to turn it off - rather than change it and remove the intended experience for those people that it does 'click' for. It's for the same reason that To the Bitter End is designed to be played on Hard difficulty - this doesn't suit everyone, but for the people it does suit, the rewards are greater.

In an ideal word I'd have a soundtrack for every taste, but of course I can't really do that.

And yes, my next project (which is something pretty different and not Warcraft 3-related), though still theoretically in the same setting, will be all original characters... though I'm not sure the characterization will be the strong point there either to be honest.

 

[Wardota2 Gamer]

This will deserve 5/5 rate!!!!!!!!


Ive begun playing it and it was hard but always keep on retrying...Thats what I love in this campgain...
Totaly have the hot and worth the time...

 

[Jayborino]

My projects are always time consuming, but hopefully I'll have "Escape from the Depths" (working title) ready sometime soon for people to play!

ANOTHER SOUL REAVER PROJECT!!!! Be still my heart, I feel faint from both excitement and terror simultaneously. You say not WC3, any clues to what we can expect?

 

[Soul Reaver]

This will deserve 5/5 rate!!!!!!!!


Ive begun playing it and it was hard but always keep on retrying...Thats what I love in this campgain...
Totaly have the hot and worth the time...

Thanks Wardota2! It only gets harder the further you get in, but it's all possible, even on hard! Good luck!

ANOTHER SOUL REAVER PROJECT!!!! Be still my heart, I feel faint from both excitement and terror simultaneously. You say not WC3, any clues to what we can expect?

It's quite different. I'm writing it as an old-school pen-and-paper single player gamebook at present (similar to the 'Fighting Fantasy' or 'Lone Wolf' books from the 80s), and theoretically I guess I could look to publish it as such when I'm done, but I'm seriously considering converting it into a computer game using the RenPy engine - I've got a little experience in Python programming and think I can make it work, though if I go down that route eventually I'll probably need to look for funding to pay for a 2D artist, sound designers etc.

The plot is nominally set in the same Multiverse but on a much more humble scale, so no immortal heroes clashing over the fates of universes this time. In fact the protagonist is an Orc, in a fairly generic fantasy setting, who somewhat unwillingly was drafted to work as a guard for an evil Sorcerer in his dungeon under Sabre Peak. But after years of toiling for his master and a string of misfortune, he finds himself stranded and injured in a forgotten corner of the dungeon and with only one wish: to get out and be free.

The writing is aimed more at people of my generation, rather than children, and it's a bit of a combination of fantasy and horror elements - there are some pretty gruesome things dwelling forgotten down in the depths. The writing is mainly focused on creating the right atmosphere and a setting.

 

[Jayborino]

Sounds great! I'm 28 and not one of those darned kids that's never had to walk uphill both ways etc, etc, so I'm quite interested by this premise.

 

[Perkyguy]

The campaign has now been

- Revamped difficulty system. Changing difficulty is still done with the in-game chat commands (see the readme), and Hard is still the default and is unchanged. However, 'medium' means you will take 25% less damage and inflict 25% more damage from all sources (usually). 'Easy' is 50% for both.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Soul Reaver]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Hahaha, thought you'd feel that way!

But in truth, I don't really see the harm. The default difficulty is unchanged by that modification, so that still plays how it should. The only people who ever used the difficulty system to begin with were people who were having trouble anyway, and I know that even with that, there were a number of people who were brickwalling and simply not able to finish the campaign without cheating. Having to cheat to win is worse than having to reduce difficulty, so the change makes sense to me.

And fundamentally I do still want people to be able to enjoy themselves while playing.

You'll be able to pick out anyone who is using easier difficulties to play. They're the ones who aren't swearing.

 

[Perkyguy]

Its more of an ego thing. Adding difficulty modes increases the number of people who will complete the map, thus taking from the exclusivity of those who did as intended. Not a popular opinion, i know but its how i feel about it.

I skimmed through some of Jay's takes on the campaign for a nostalgia injection and got me thinking - maybe i should fraps my no-reload runs and put em on youtube as well.

Frankly only thing stopping me is the thought trying a no-load chapter 8 again.

Whats this about a new project I hear?

 

[Soul Reaver]

Its more of an ego thing. Adding difficulty modes increases the number of people who will complete the map, thus taking from the exclusivity of those who did as intended. Not a popular opinion, i know but its how i feel about it.

I skimmed through some of Jay's takes on the campaign for a nostalgia injection and got me thinking - maybe i should fraps my no-reload runs and put em on youtube as well.

Frankly only thing stopping me is the thought trying a no-load chapter 8 again.

Whats this about a new project I hear?

I recentliy got an email from a Chinese fan who apparently has also recorded a no load run through the game. Again, I personally don't feel this is necessary.

Most of the details of my new project are in my previous post already - it's a gamebook, but I might use a visual novel engine to make it into a computer game.

That makes it more 'story' than game since it's just multiple-choice, and it's a very differet atmosphere from To the Bitter End (a much more personal adventure rather than an epic empire shattering one) but overall I'm happy with how it's coming along.

Knowing me it'll be some time before it's ready for release but I'm working on it steadily and much like To the Bitter End did years ago, it's reached a stage where I've done so much work on it that it would be crazy for me to stop writing it now.

 

[Perkyguy]

I recentliy got an email from a Chinese fan who apparently has also recorded a no load run through the game. Again, I personally don't feel this is necessary.

Well, that's one thing we beat the chinese gamers to.

 

[lesnarpower12]

it is an awesome campaign indeed but its sadly the fact that its small .Perhaps you can continue it ???

 

[Soul Reaver]

it is an awesome campaign indeed but its sadly the fact that its small .Perhaps you can continue it ???

Thanks lesnarpower12!

I personally don't really think it's small. It's 8 fully playable maps, which is decent. It's not incredibly long but that's because it forces the player to keep moving and doesn't have 'busywork' quests to make the maps seem like they have more content than they actually do.

I don't have plans on making a full sequel, at least not in Warcraft III. The story/characters are still active in a tandem story at www.administorum.com (though it's hitting a lull at the moment), which is the closest to a 'sequel' that the campaign currently has, and I'm writing a gamebook that very peripherally uses the same Multiverse setting, but if I do make a full sequel to To the Bitter End it probably won't be in the Warcraft III engine.

 

[hikaritokibo12]

Why is it that Fei Serumen is a Strength hero?

 

[Soul Reaver]

Because he hits things with swords.

My thinking isn't "make the highest stat the primary stat" but rather "make the stat that would most affect the damage of the weapon type the primary stat"

In my thinking, the physical force used to swing a sword, axe, club etc is the biggest factor in how much damage it's likely to do. Accuracy is obviously a factor, but if you hit hard enough to cut someone in half then extreme precision is no longer required.

Agility is for weapons like bows (which can only have the bowstring drawn back so far), guns (where physical strength doesn't matter) and daggers (which can only cut/penetrate to a limited depth regardless of how much strength is used) - in these cases, the ability to accurately target weak spots (eyes, heart, chinks in armour) is more significant than the strength used.

Intelligence is for magically-derived attacks, such as Kaine Shariven's dark energy bolts, or the permanent Fists of Force spell used by Dustwalker to augment his strikes (it's why his hands glow purple).

Also, keep in mind that Fei's attack speed is dependent on Agility too. While his individual strikes aren't as strong as Kitharsis' or Soul Reaver, his default attack rate is faster. So his damage output is still assisted by his speed - just not twice.

 

[hikaritokibo12]

Because he hits things with swords.

My thinking isn't "make the highest stat the primary stat" but rather "make the stat that would most affect the damage of the weapon type the primary stat"

In my thinking, the physical force used to swing a sword, axe, club etc is the biggest factor in how much damage it's likely to do. Accuracy is obviously a factor, but if you hit hard enough to cut someone in half then extreme precision is no longer required.

Agility is for weapons like bows (which can only have the bowstring drawn back so far), guns (where physical strength doesn't matter) and daggers (which can only cut/penetrate to a limited depth regardless of how much strength is used) - in these cases, the ability to accurately target weak spots (eyes, heart, chinks in armour) is more significant than the strength used.

Intelligence is for magically-derived attacks, such as Kaine Shariven's dark energy bolts, or the permanent Fists of Force spell used by Dustwalker to augment his strikes (it's why his hands glow purple).

Also, keep in mind that Fei's attack speed is dependent on Agility too. While his individual strikes aren't as strong as Kitharsis' or Soul Reaver, his default attack rate is faster. So his damage output is still assisted by his speed - just not twice.

Oh okay, I understand now. It was a pleasure to ask you for your reason.

 

[Ahman]

The music is so freaking terrible and annoying...I really liked putting "the misty mountains" song within it, but after that a band starts singing and someone screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!" . is there anyway i can stop this? the normal sound of units clashing and replying is better at least.
reply quickly please

 

[Soul Reaver]

The music is so freaking terrible and annoying...I really liked putting "the misty mountains" song within it, but after that a band starts singing and someone screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!" . is there anyway i can stop this? the normal sound of units clashing and replying is better at least.
reply quickly please

In MOST cases yes. Press enter, type in "Music off" and hit enter again - it'll turn off.

There are one or two key cutscenes that may still play with music though.

These instructions are in the readme and manual, I recommend you read one of them (personally I'd say the manual but if you don't care about the lore go for the readme instead)

 

[Ahman]

In MOST cases yes. Press enter, type in "Music off" and hit enter again - it'll turn off.

There are one or two key cutscenes that may still play with music though.

These instructions are in the readme and manual, I recommend you read one of them (personally I'd say the manual but if you don't care about the lore go for the readme instead)

hmm..thanks for the info. And no, i really care about the lore. Story is quite nice, and i think the band music was just in chapter 1 because i reached chapter VI and so far music is nice. In fact i liked the song (dreams or something) in Reunion chapter.
this campaign is good so far, its short in terms of maps and its all about fighting..
5/5

 

[Soul Reaver]

hmm..thanks for the info. And no, i really care about the lore. Story is quite nice, and i think the band music was just in chapter 1 because i reached chapter VI and so far music is nice. In fact i liked the song (dreams or something) in Reunion chapter.
this campaign is good so far, its short in terms of maps and its all about fighting..
5/5

The Manual has a list of songs at the end, in the credits. You can look them up there if you're interested. The one in Chapter V: Reunion is called "Karma" by Kamelot.

 

[Ahman]

Is it only me or everyone find lord Kherek invincible? i spent 1 hour trying to win the battle against him and lost everytime. the last time i went walking around securing almost 3 orbs at once to fight him and he ended up securing like 5 for himself. how do i win against him? why do i have to use whosyourdaddy in almost every chapter?
this is impossible difficulty not hard!

 

[Soul Reaver]

Is it only me or everyone find lord Kherek invincible? i spent 1 hour trying to win the battle against him and lost everytime. the last time i went walking around securing almost 3 orbs at once to fight him and he ended up securing like 5 for himself. how do i win against him? why do i have to use whosyourdaddy in almost every chapter?
this is impossible difficulty not hard!

If you're dying it's because you're not approaching the fight correctly.

First I'll try to explain the orb/rune mechanics:
- There are two (invisible) timers that count down simultaneously, one for you and one for Kherek
- When the timer hits zero, an orb will spawn in a random location, and the timer starts counting down again, BUT it will be longer each time this happens
- If a hero walks close to an orb of their colour, it will turn into a rune.
- If a hero is low on health, and they have at least 1 rune somewhere on the battlefield, then one of their runes will disappear and they'll be healed/have their MP restored.
- A given hero cannot have more than 4 runes/orbs available for them at a time - the timer won't start counting down until one of the 4 has been used (so there's no way Kherek actually have had 5 runes active at the same time)
- The timers/timer incrementation/spawns are treated entirely seprarately for both heroes; in other words, you're on completely even footing. Neither hero has an advantage from these mechanics.

What it boils down to is this: if you're doing more damage to Kherek than he is to you, he'll end up having to use up orbs/runes more often. The more orbs/runes that spawn for him, the longer each subsequent one will take to show up. Keep it up long enough, and you'll eventually get to a point where you can kill him before another rune/orb spawns for him - every rune you force Kherek to use brings you one step closer to winning.

If you're losing, it's because you're taking a lot more damage than you're dishing out.

Kherek is actually relatively easy and can be beaten very consistently, but you can't go head-to-head with him. He's stronger and tougher than Kitharsis. Kitharsis is faster though.

Try the following strategies (in order of importance):
- Keep away from Kherek. Do not engage him head-to-head unless you have no choice (eg, you're stuck in one of his webs)
- Use Dark Lash on him at every opportunity, from as far away as you can
- Do not attack him with spells if he is surrounded by a glowing orange shield - this is one of his items (Mageslayer Ring) and it temporarily renders him immune to spell damage. Just wait this one out.
- Don't use Dark Tendrils, it's a waste of mana (unless you're surrounded)
- If Kherek gets a firey glow around him, run away as he's channeling his spiny Ultimate.
- Use the Bag of Sand whenever you can to do some extra damage.
- Turn around and use Summon Skeletal Minions to help block/delay him and give you vision so you can cast Dark Lash. They won't last long, but if you can get the mages to all hit him with Shadow Lightning you'll do good damage. Add in Minor Haste too if you can.
- For the ultimate attack combo: ensure Kherek's Mageslayer ring has just run out. Cast Summon Skeletal Minions and have the Skeletons cast Minor Haste on you. Activate the Rage Axes. Cast Unbridled Rage. Go to town on Kherek until the Rage Axes duration expires.
- Sandstorm is ok, but is best used if Kherek has his beetle minions out
- Lastly: be patient. This is a fight between two tanks. You have to grind him down. The next one will be faster.

There are a few youtube Let's Plays of people playing the game which show how they beat Kherek, but I recommend against watching them - you can do it yourself, I assure you!

By the way, I feel it's a bit unfair to give me 1 star. Even if it's too difficult, I'd like to think it's at least technically pretty competent.

 

[Ahman]

By the way, I feel it's a bit unfair to give me 1 star. Even if it's too difficult, I'd like to think it's at least technically pretty competent.

hahaha, sorry, my friend. I was quite angry because subtitles go away so fast in cinematics and i end up not knowing what the whole discussion topic is about. I had the story in my mind vaguely. I like storylines in campaigns more than the gameplay itself sometimes, and sometimes i write the story.
You might need to make speeches and talks last more longer so players can read them whole. see for example Turnro's campaigns how the cinematics' speeches are and how much time each conversation last. So far, his campaigns are the best, in my prospective.
I liked the final fight cinematic with Morganem and how each champion did some nice attacks on him, especially, Soul reaver's, at the end.
See what you can do with the cinematic subtitles, if you want. That's my main concern, if you care about my opinion.
4/5

 

[Soul Reaver]

You might need to make speeches and talks last more longer so players can read them whole. see for example Turnro's campaigns how the cinematics' speeches are and how much time each conversation last. So far, his campaigns are the best, in my prospective.
I liked the final fight cinematic with Morganem and how each champion did some nice attacks on him, especially, Soul reaver's, at the end.
See what you can do with the cinematic subtitles, if you want. That's my main concern, if you care about my opinion.
4/5

Text timing for cinematics is really hard to get right unfortunately. I had a look at Turnro's ones and they seem far too slow for me - I can read through them twice before they go away. But then I'm a very fast reader.

Some of the cinematics have their music specifically timed to the events in the cinematic, which makes it even harder to adjust the timing after the fact - it would require actually changing the dialogue itself.

The only real solution is to have voice acting, but I'm afraid the amount of work that would demand might be a bit too much for me at this stage.

 

[Perkyguy]

Is it only me or everyone find lord Kherek invincible? i spent 1 hour trying to win the battle against him and lost everytime. the last time i went walking around securing almost 3 orbs at once to fight him and he ended up securing like 5 for himself. how do i win against him? why do i have to use whosyourdaddy in almost every chapter?
this is impossible difficulty not hard!

With regards to the frustration angle, I know where you are coming from, but you shouldnt let the irritation color your overall judgement. Do not forget that the elevated difficulty is not accidental, but a bullet point to the series.
However, just a little above your initial post is another who confirms that there are at least 2 people we know of who finished the entire thing without using the save feature, so whosyourdaddy is not at all a neccesity.

Im fairly certain that the only advantage the computer gets is that his orbs spawn 6 seconds earlier than your own.

My personal evaluation of boss difficulty, in descending order goes: Kathryn>Maelstrom>Kherek>Dustwalker>Eryion.

P.S. I had no problems with the dialog box pacing.

 

[Jayborino]

Without the frustration, it wouldn't be nearly as rewarding to complete! I've played a ton of campaigns here and for SC2; there are a bunch that are frustrating in a very uncomfortable, obnoxious way with no payoff because they feel like bullshit with nothing to learn and improve on. The simplest way I could describe them is 'untested'.

Anyway, SoulReaver has crafted something here that, in my experience, captures rewarding challenge that gets you mad, but pays off emotionally in a significant way when you win after learning the mechanics. Admittedly, it's not for everyone, but I would recommend it to anyone to try a little bit for themselves first.

 

[Carantir]

Managed to complete the campaign ( with use of cheats tho ) and what I can say is:
Good Part
- Storyline was interesting and unique.
- Maps were challenging yet not too hard.
- Bosses provided a challenge.
- Final Boss requiring good knowledge of his mechanics and a tactic.
- There was more than 1 or 2 types of map ( for example TD, survival, etc. ).
- Cinematics were entertaining.
Bad Part
- There were some annoying mechanics ( like the fire "moving" through ground during void children bosses fights or long stuns/CC during which mobs used multiple skills and oneshotted heroes ).
- The part when player have to defend Prince and king in chapter 5 after defending outposts while also assaulting enemy base was really annoying as those walked into middle of fight and were dying from damage if not healed in time.
- Lack of music during several cutscenes.
At overall I would say 4.7/5 or 4.85/5 as the campaign was really nice to play at all.
Good job Soul Reaver, Good job.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Thank you Carantir, I'm glad you mostly enjoyed it. You know you can change the difficulty level by typing in 'easy' or 'medium', right? It reduces the need for cheats.

Could you explain what you meant with the fire 'moving' through the ground? It's supposed to sort of travel along the surface. Is it not doing this?

Defending the King/Prince in Chapter 5 basically means sticking close to them (or clearing the way ahead of them). They do retreat if their health gets very low but if you let them get isolated or surrounded they won't be able to escape by themselves.
There's only really one song per Chapter (with just two exceptions) so in some cases I felt silence was better suited for the cinematic rather than playing music. Particulary when it's just people talking and nothing epic happening I didn't really feel epic music was suitable.
The stuns can and will kill you if you let them, but there are steps you can take to prevent this (don't let heroes get caught without others nearby to help, don't cluster too close together, and of course: stun/kill the enemy before they stun/kill you).

 

[Carantir]

Could you explain what you meant with the fire 'moving' through the ground? It's supposed to sort of travel along the surface. Is it not doing this?

Yes it was travelling, I just don't had any better word than "moving" to describe it.
And no I do not know that there were commands for normal and easy but I'll play on hard anyway, just for fun.

 

[ozisop12]

so hard

 

[Soul Reaver]

so hard

Yep!

If it's too tough for you you can open the chat window and enter either "easy" or "medium" (without quotation marks) and hit enter to change the difficulty from the default hard.

But the game WAS intented to be played on hard, so if you've managed to tough your way through it: congratulations!

 

[ozisop12]

i like the play style of the camping the difficult is what makes it so good but not like most camping the difficult isnt annoying its the camping core so for that the deserve alot of credits 5/5 in my book

 

[rowaid bassam]

Definitely one of the best custom campaigns I've played , really fun abilities, good story and interesting/rewarding difficulty , would love to see more work from the author in the future , but I'm not sure if people make maps/campaigns for warcraft 3 anymore

 

[Soul Reaver]

Definitely one of the best custom campaigns I've played , really fun abilities, good story and interesting/rewarding difficulty , would love to see more work from the author in the future , but I'm not sure if people make maps/campaigns for warcraft 3 anymore

Thank you rowaid!

Unfortuntely I don't have time to make another Warcraft III campaign with this sort of scope. I'm working on another project now - I'm writing a gamebook, which much like To the Bitter End, has turned into a much bigger project that I first expected (so it's still a while away from completion). It's a more traditional fantasy/horror dungeon crawl, set in one of the worlds of the Multiverse, but it's coming along nicely so far.

Might turn into an actual commercial game, but I need to finish writing it before I get to that stage.

 

[Deathrax]

nice one

 

[LISBOAH]

Awesome campaign! One of my favorites! A pity it is so short...

Because of you, I constantly listen to Karma - Kamelot!

 

[FallenStar]

One of the best campaigns on the website. So much work and love were put into every bit of this wonderful campaign. Well rounded characters, interesting storyline, awesome music to go along with the gameplay, fun boss fights, cool ideas and never a dull moment. Truly a masterpiece, well done!

 

[johnmarcena000]

I would like to know the download links for the Background musics specially in chapter 5:the reunion BTW good campaign i would recommend it

 

[Soul Reaver]

nice one

Awesome campaign! One of my favorites! A pity it is so short...

Because of you, I constantly listen to Karma - Kamelot!

One of the best campaigns on the website. So much work and love were put into every bit of this wonderful campaign. Well rounded characters, interesting storyline, awesome music to go along with the gameplay, fun boss fights, cool ideas and never a dull moment. Truly a masterpiece, well done!

Thank you all for the comments, I'm really happy you all enjoyed it, and I appreciate you taking the time to tell me.

I would like to know the download links for the Background musics specially in chapter 5:the reunion BTW good campaign i would recommend it

Check the readme (it's in the description, just click the 'show' button) - there's a section that tells you all the songs used in the map.

You should be able to find all of them easily enough on iTunes, youtube etc.

 

[Epic Producer]

Comment : It's far the best campaign a user like me ever played it. My family loved it too! heres the review.

Cinematic )

+ Realistic camera.
+ Unbelievable special effects and triggers used (Was expecting jazz) .
+ Phrases are stunningly made .

Difficulty
+ Normal/ standard as it used .
- first chapter was a little bit difficult .
+ all the rest are standard .

Terrain )
+ Impressive ups and downs .
- Some I really did not understand .

5.5/5

Status = Epic

 

[Soul Reaver]

Comment : It's far the best campaign a user like me ever played it. My family loved it too! heres the review.

Thank you for the review! And I'm especially pleased that your whole family enjoyed it as well.

Also, note that the default difficulty is 'Hard' unless you change it with the in-game commands. A very hearty congratulations if you finished it on hard, because it's tough!

 

[Burningshadow]

Hey soul river how did you make thos level 50 abilities.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Hey soul river how did you make thos level 50 abilities.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean - I don't think any one of the abilities actually go all the way up to Level 50. Standard abilities have 10 levels, and Ultimates have 5.

Do you mean the heroes' Ultimate abilities?

 

[Burningshadow]

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean - I don't think any one of the abilities actually go all the way up to Level 50. Standard abilities have 10 levels, and Ultimates have 5.

Do you mean the heroes' Ultimate abilities?

Yes

 

[Soul Reaver]

Different for different abilities - but pretty much all of them are 'triggered' abilities, and use dummy units to create visual or in-game effects that wouldn't be possible just by editing an ability.

It's a bit too in-depth a topic to cover in a forum post, but basically you create a trigger that will go off when certain conditions are met (eg, Soul Reaver casts Sphere of Annihilation) and then the trigger does a whole bunch of other stuff (eg, create a dummy unit that looks like a huge explosion at the impact point, cause a screen filter that looks like a white flash, causes a camera-shake effect, damages units in an area etc).

 

[Kuras2003]

got 1 question..... those void childrens heroes are based on which hero?
i mean is it like you make Void Children Hatred based on Pitlord or something?

 

[Soul Reaver]

got 1 question..... those void childrens heroes are based on which hero?
i mean is it like you make Void Children Hatred based on Pitlord or something?

The Void Child Hatred is actually based on the Crypt Lord. However, it's kind of irrelevant which hero they're based on - all the relevant fields (including animation fields, characteristics, skills etc) were modified with custom values. They don't really retain very much from the original hero they're based.

 

[Kuras2003]

The Void Child Hatred is actually based on the Crypt Lord. However, it's kind of irrelevant which hero they're based on - all the relevant fields (including animation fields, characteristics, skills etc) were modified with custom values. They don't really retain very much from the original hero they're based.

first: thx for reply
second: just wanted to know bc i really liked Void children heroes and void children so i just wanted to know how i can make them in world editor,
it's kinda like i have masive collection of units,spells,heroes etc. recipes to use them in world editor so i just wanted add void children to my collection