[Miscellanous / Other] Monter 2

[Manipulation]

The reason i am suggesting ORPG is mostly due to the save/load system. For example to complete your map, you needs like 3 hours straight. And afking doesnt help the other players, while if it was ORPG style and we could save our progress anytime it would be awesome.
I dont play Sunken City mainly for the same reason.

Even if u make an ORPG out of it you can still do it the way u want it.
For example games like Monster Hunter are fun even if u fight the same bosses many times and thats because of the combat system. So the same thing can apply to your game. Players' skill will be the main factor that will determine the result in a boss fight and items will come in form to offer build options (ofc skills, talents etc can also offer build diversity) and a little boost.

 

[n00b]

The reason i am suggesting ORPG is mostly due to the save/load system. For example to complete your map, you needs like 3 hours straight. And afking doesnt help the other players, while if it was ORPG style and we could save our progress anytime it would be awesome.
I dont play Sunken City mainly for the same reason.

This game would definitely benefit from save codes, but the problem is that this game doesn't have the 'openness' of an ORPG. Unlike in an ORPG, you can't really go wherever you want - Monter is a cooperative game where you have to stay in the general area of the other players. That said, the progression of each player (how far a player has gotten through the game) should be the same

When introducing save codes, player progression can become highly varied; for example, one player might have only just started the game, while another might be at the very end of the game. The problem arises when these two players try to load their codes despite having different levels of progression, because it breaks the rule that players must always be in the same general location

The only way I can think of dealing with this is using a system where players are categorized into tiers. For example, a player who has just started the game would be classified as a Tier 1 character; a player who has reached the halfway point of the game would be a Tier 2 character; and so on

Depending on your character tier, you would start the game at a different point. Tier 1 would start at the normal starting point, and Tier 2 would start at the halfway point of the game (probably at the crypt's entrance, after having defeated the Magic Golem)

And of course, players would only be allowed to load characters of the same tier as each other. In the case that a player lacks a save code of a certain tier, that player would be able to pick from a number of preset characters. However, saving would be disabled for preset characters (maybe)

That's the best idea I have in approaching the save code problem, but it's kinda clunky. I also haven't really mentioned the finer details of implementing save codes because that would make this post too long holey shit

tl;dr I'm eventually putting in save/load but it's complicated

edit: writing this entire post actually made me think of a system that could work better than this Tier shit but fuck it

 

[Manipulation]

I read it all bro.

Well i guess i didnt clarify that what i mean is: Create a new ORPG map but with this awesome combat.
But that takes effort/time... i dont develop but i can imagine.

Anyway.. Obviously you know what u want to do and what not. I just shared my WISH ^_^ and thoughts i guess, after playing this map.

 

[n00b]

triggering for the final boss is 99.999% complete

finally going to submit this map to the maps section unless I decide to implement save codes or something

coming soon™

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

This is an amazing game. I can tell that great skill went into coding these enemies and bosses.
I'm writing down everything I know about the bosses/enemies on this wiki, anyone is free to help: Monter 2 Wiki
Currently I'm doing a solo run - i've defeated 6 bosses, the Hardmode Guardian was the hardest so far (absolutely insane). Shadow golem wasn't too bad, and revenant was easier than expected. Unfortunately I don't like playing online since every game stops at the dreadlord (when noobs inevitably feed him HP.. dreadlord seems like a newbie crusher boss).

My only complaint is the.. generous hitboxes that some of the bosses get. Like guardian's wide slash thing.
(edit) 7 bosses now.. flame guardian was worse than Hard mode guardian

Other stuff:
honestly doesn't seem like stats/levels do much. Each strength point just adds 3 damage for sword? Int and hp do a bit more I guess

And either I'm missing a lot of weapons, or there really aren't many available. I've only found flame sword as an upgrade so far.

 

[n00b]

I'm writing down everything I know about the bosses/enemies on this wiki, anyone is free to help: Monter 2 Wiki

Wew lad, the last thing I expected was for someone to make a Monter wiki
Good job so far, I will be monitoring this

Unfortunately I don't like playing online since every game stops at the dreadlord (when noobs inevitably feed him HP.. dreadlord seems like a newbie crusher boss).

Fun fact, Dreadlord's lifesteal is higher the more players there are in the game, and the amount he heals at 4 players is probably way too fucking much

If you want to defeat that boss with pubbies, your best bet is to explain the lifesteal mechanic and/or tell them not to get clawed to death

if that doesn't work then ur fukt and you can feel free to blame my shet balancing, seriously i'm probably gonna nerf his lifesteal in the near future

My only complaint is the.. generous hitboxes that some of the bosses get. Like guardian's wide slash thing.

i've been meaning to fix guardian's swing hitboxes for about a year now and i still havent done it
coming SOON(TM)

(edit) 7 bosses now.. flame guardian was worse than Hard mode guardian

i hope you enjoy hardmode revenant
also, you're a fucking madman for actually soloing hardmode guardian, i've never actually seen anyone beat that, or even attempt it for that matter

Other stuff:
honestly doesn't seem like stats/levels do much. Each strength point just adds 3 damage for sword? Int and hp do a bit more I guess

stat scaling is only somewhat significant if you dump 10-15 points into str/agi, which would result in a damage bonus between 30 and 48 for sword

i don't think stat scaling is terrible because +30 dmg is actually more helpful than you realize; however it just gets outclassed by promotion stone upgrades which also give +30 damage, but PER UPGRADE

i think the problem is mostly that promotion stones are fucking OP and just overshadow stat scaling unless you like minmaxing

btw mace has +4/STR scaling which is hella OP, at 16 str you basically have a damage bonus that is the equivalent of 2 promotion stone upgrades

anyway stats are kinda shit if you try to evenly distribute your points, better off to just dump in 1 or 2 stats

And either I'm missing a lot of weapons, or there really aren't many available. I've only found flame sword as an upgrade so far.

there aren't many weapons because making weapons requires making several animations, which is painful and i'm lazy

also theres only 8 wepons in this game (including fist), some of them are hidden as fuck though

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Streaming monter2 tonight: Twitch

Thoughts on bosses:

Guardian
Seems like an almost perfect first boss besides the too-hard-to-avoid slash.

Dreadlord
Should have slightly lower lifesteal percent; other than that, this is a great boss. I think 50% of its current steal would be fair.

Shadow Golem
He's too easy, I've never died to this. Then again, I am pretty good at fighting golems on the field, maybe some others would have trouble with this. Basically the same skill-set as a field golem with a few extras, but the extras really don't hurt much.

Living Statues
This is my favorite boss so far. While the rest require you to be very careful and avoid the boss attacks, you pretty much have to be reckless against the Statues or get overwhelmed. Other than that, this is the aesthetically best boss imo.

Hard Mode Guardian
Perfect as is. Difficult but fair. I can actually beat this guy consistently solo now.

Revenant
Nice boss, I especially love its poison nova art. There's one flaw though: the seeking missile goes too far. You have to run so far from it that you lose lock on for the boss, and then lose vision and can't see anything he's doing. Very annoying to have to re-lock on every time you dodge the missile.

Flame Guardian
My current opinion is that flame guardian is far too unreasonable for a normal boss. He seems like he should be the Hard mode boss of that area.

First, the orbs of fire attack gives you under 1 second to see and respond to the animation. I play hard mazes on wc3 and even my reaction time isn't that good. The other channeling one, the fire blast attack, also gives a tiny amount of time to prepare. For the fire blast, you do just about have enough time to get out of the way but for the orbs, you just have to hope not to get hit.

And because landing his combo is basically a one-hit-kill. Hitting with the fire blast deals 1100, and then the follow up thrust while stunned deals 900+.

Also he's hit me more than once with the same wide slash attack, sometimes one hit killing me with just that.

His reward doesn't justify the difficulty of the fight. Maybe if he dropped some really good item, but as it is... it's just a bounty.

Ancient Viper
Seems physically impossible to beat with solo melee characters, there's no way to predict where he's going to run and blast you next. I'd need to see this boss beat to believe it's possible.

Beetle
This guy's not a boss, but he's at least as hard as one. And doesn't drop anything, it looks like, so I'm just going to bypass it in the future

Don't know if I'm missing any besides hard mode rev.

Videos of boss kills:

Hidden

 

[n00b]

Shadow Golem
He's too easy, I've never died to this. Then again, I am pretty good at fighting golems on the field, maybe some others would have trouble with this. Basically the same skill-set as a field golem with a few extras, but the extras really don't hurt much.

yes this boss is eazy as fuck, it literally hasn't been changed since it was released and that was like 2 years ago lmao

maybe one day i'll give it a new ability but i'm not sure what i'd add

Revenant
Nice boss, I especially love its poison nova art. There's one flaw though: the seeking missile goes too far. You have to run so far from it that you lose lock on for the boss, and then lose vision and can't see anything he's doing. Very annoying to have to re-lock on every time you dodge the missile.

yea i guess i see what ur sayin, but dodging the seeking missile attack without unlocking is perfectly possible, since when it gets close to the end of its lifespan it briefly stops tracking its target

if i made it cover less distance it'd probably end up bein shit and no1 would get hit by it lol
if i made it cover less distance but increased its acceleration to compensate... then i'm not sure, i'd probably have to test that out and see how it goes

furthermore you can just block the missile, yes you can block it even with the shitass torch, but you need to take advantage of instant blocking (a semi-obscure mechanic, read the shield moveset to learn more!!)

also you can parry it, the sword skill that nobody uses

Flame Guardian
My current opinion is that flame guardian is far too unreasonable for a normal boss. He seems like he should be the Hard mode boss of that area.

First, the orbs of fire attack gives you under 1 second to see and respond to the animation. I play hard mazes on wc3 and even my reaction time isn't that good. The other channeling one, the fire blast attack, also gives a tiny amount of time to prepare. For the fire blast, you do just about have enough time to get out of the way but for the orbs, you just have to hope not to get hit.

And because landing his combo is basically a one-hit-kill. Hitting with the fire blast deals 1100, and then the follow up thrust while stunned deals 900+.

Also he's hit me more than once with the same wide slash attack, sometimes one hit killing me with just that.

His reward doesn't justify the difficulty of the fight. Maybe if he dropped some really good item, but as it is... it's just a bounty.

he's an optional boss and intentionally made to be hard, but perhaps i made him TOO hard

the buff he applies to himself occasionally doesn't actually buff his attacks, despite what you wrote on the wiki, it's actually a timebomb that goes off at a random time
if i remember correctly, the timebomb's AoE is fairly small and you bretty much have to be right in front of him to get hit by it
that said you just need to be cautious when the buff is active, dont completely hug him the entire time and u wont get hit

i should probably nerf the thrust attack and fire nova dmg yea

still need to fix his wide swing hitting twice, fuck im lazy
also need to fix his timebomb being glitchy as fuck

p.s. here is the additional reward you get from beating this boss:

Spoiler

a great sense of accomplishment congrats motherfucker

Ancient Viper
Seems physically impossible to beat with solo melee characters, there's no way to predict where he's going to run and blast you next. I'd need to see this boss beat to believe it's possible.

this boss is only hard because his projectiles are seemingly impossible to avoid if you're too close to him, but it's actually possible to dodge them
problem is that the method you use to dodge them is unintuitive as fuck, so i will probably change this boss in future updates

i've only seen one single guy solo this and he cheesed the fuck out of it

also here's if you really want proof that this shittey boss is actually soloable

Spoiler

Beetle
This guy's not a boss, but he's at least as hard as one. And doesn't drop anything, it looks like, so I'm just going to bypass it in the future

lol

Don't know if I'm missing any besides hard mode rev.

you're missing a boss that hasn't been released yet
Coming soon®

also couldnt watch the stream because i was sleepin
nice videos btw

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Ah, fair enough on the viper. I've been dodging them pretty consistently by using F + E to sword dive away in the opposite direction he's shooting in, but even with that I eventually make mistakes and I can't hit him. I'll try it again. I kind of realized I was wrong about the fire buff but didn't know what it actually did, thanks for the info. That's a bit more warning than I expected. A possible solution to the lock-on bit is to extend the lock-on range for bosses to range across the whole arena; there's no reason why you would want to unlock during a boss fight anyways and I've also unlocked harmdode guardian while running from lightning field

And I try to parry but it's a bit too hard to get down, even practicing on Wisps. Shield has a little delay I feel like, so you have to predict the attacks. And the punishment for missing a parry on something like poison is probably that you die, and predicting/parrying an accelerating object would be difficult. Actually in general, I rarely use shield because even reducing a boss damage to half, you still take like 200-400 damage easily, and 0 if you dodge.

Stuff I haven't solved yet: gate below first Warlock and locked chest. One of them is probably from hard revenant.
(edit) Killed that, now THAT was a good boss. The only other idea I have is to light all the torches, but I think I already did..

Hidden

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Game is complete, videos of final 2 bosses

Hidden

And some fun/random/evil ideas for hard mode version of bosses

Magic Golem

Hidden

- Instead of a regular golem, another magic golem joins the fight (probably already going to be used by maker)

- Upon spawn, the golems can equalize their HPs (higher gives hp to lower) and then take half damage equally, so they both die simultaneously

- Rock throw can throw three rocks in an arc instead of 1 straight ahead

- Magic Slam can create boulders all along the outside of the slam radius

- Slam can create 4 or 5 rocks instead of 3

Living Statues

Hidden

- All four statues come alive at the same time

- Wide Slash is now a spin attack, reaching 360 degrees

- When jumping, the statue will raise its sword and instantly perform a vertical slash as its landing

- Statue can temporarily "deactivate" into its non-living form and regain HP, with bonus armor

- Jump now causes the room to shake, dropping debris from the ceiling randomly over the arena (focused around hero)

Flame Guardian

Hidden

- When the lava tide comes in at 50%, the guardian can control it to erupt on on a point in the arena. the lava bursts to that area, then flows down the hill back into the pool

- The Guardian can now light a hero on fire (undodgeable) which does not damage the hero, but severely hurts nearby other heroes. Can also cast on itself.

- Fire Nova's epicenter can now be focused somewhere else, other than centered on the Guardian

- Fire Nova's fire now remains after the explosion and flows into the pool of lava, making it bigger

- Lava pool now heats up the entire arena, dealing damage over time to all heroes even if they are not inside it (very minor, does not cancel healing)

Ancient Viper

Hidden

- The Viper can now breathe poison in addition to ice/darkness

- The Viper flies out of reach of all weapons besides bows, and breathes huge waves of fire on regions of the arena

- The Viper now chains together multiple Charges in a row, each targeting different heroes (if available) or the same if not.

- Frost Bolt creates a lasting impassable ice block where it hits

- Darkness Bolt creates a lasting cloud of darkness that damages heroes inside

Final Boss

Hidden

- When at a distance, the boss draws his bow and fires a volley of poison/heavy arrows at you

- Life Pendant now also inflicts Shield and Regen

- Life Pendant takes 1 tick less to cast

- Landing a successful spin attack will disarm the hero and throw your weapon across the arena

- The boss will attempt to Parry an attack with shield if you attack him head-on

 

[n00b]

nice ideas, i will probably steal some of these

- Statue can temporarily "deactivate" into its non-living form and regain HP, with bonus armor

i like this one the most for whatever reason

And I try to parry but it's a bit too hard to get down, even practicing on Wisps. Shield has a little delay I feel like, so you have to predict the attacks. And the punishment for missing a parry on something like poison is probably that you die, and predicting/parrying an accelerating object would be difficult. Actually in general, I rarely use shield because even reducing a boss damage to half, you still take like 200-400 damage easily, and 0 if you dodge.

parry is one of the most ancient things in the game, it's literally been there since like the very first version of monter and hasn't really been changed since then, so it probably needs a rework

not sure what you mean by delay, it's not like a dark souls parry where the parry frames are slightly after the parry is initiated
in monter the parry window is active the moment you guard, and the timing is actually very lenient (think it's like 0.8 seconds)

if you're talking about the 1 second delay between guarding and unguarding, then yeah that can be pretty punishing if you mess up your parry timing
that 1 sec delay exists so that you can't spam parry and essentially become invulnerable, so you have to choose appropriate times to parry
that said the ezest attacks to parry are the ones that are highly telegraphed (this may seem obvious but if it was i'd actually see ppl using parry lol..)

also parrying completely nullifies damage, but it's not mentioned in the description which is my mistake
and it doesn't really consume that much stamina to boot

overall parrying has a bunch of other confusing, hidden mechanics associated with it which is why it needs rework

A possible solution to the lock-on bit is to extend the lock-on range for bosses to range across the whole arena; there's no reason why you would want to unlock during a boss fight anyways and I've also unlocked harmdode guardian while running from lightning field

soon(tm)

 

[n00b]

its out Monter2 v1.0.1

rip this thread