Increasing Mana, Health and others.

[deathismyfriend]

Why do these abilities not increase permanent mana / health / armor and what can I use in their place to do this ?

Item Life Bonus (lesser) // For this I can use item permanent life gain.
Item Mana Bonus (100)
Item Armor Bonus +1


Note: I am using these on units not on heroes.

 

[Karzama]

The first two can be done by giving the ability 2 levels. In level 1 it will do 0 health/mana, and in the second it will do the negative of your desired health/mana (so -100 will give 100 health/mana). Then when you give them the ability you set the ability to 2 and then remove it. Not sure how it works but it does.

On the armor front I don't really know how to sort that other than using a research instead...

 

[deathismyfriend]

How do I allow for negative values in the OE ?

 

[Ezekiel12]

How do I allow for negative values in the OE ?

Shift+Enter

 

[deathismyfriend]

Shift+Enter

Thanks.

@Karzama
Your method does not work with those abilities. Can you provide test map.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

As far as I know, this is only usable with HP and Mana. I believe, as of now, it is impossible to add permanent armor indefinitely.

This is quick library and test map I made for stat manipulation.

Control stats with:
+hp
+mana
-hp
-mana

Yes I know there are bjs, I don't care, it's a demo

(edit) It works because setting these abilities to level 2 fails to grant the level 2 bonus, but removing it at level 2 removes the level 2 bonus. Removing a -1 when you start with a 0 gives you 1 permanent hp. Same for mana.

 

[deathismyfriend]

Thanks Edge. For some reason it wasn't working in my map.

Now I just need a way to add armor.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

There's only one method for adding armor that I can think of, and it has serious downsides.

Make everything a hero, hide the hero UIs. Make agility give no attack speed, and 1 armor. For every armor, just add one agi.

 

[deathismyfriend]

There's only one method for adding armor that I can think of, and it has serious downsides.

Make everything a hero, hide the hero UIs. Make agility give no attack speed, and 1 armor. For every armor, just add one agi.

Ya I was thinking about that. Thanks for your help.

 

[shadowvzs]

if u use a DDS then why not set up a damage reduction system?

 

[deathismyfriend]

if u use a DDS then why not set up a damage reduction setting?

That is what I decided to do. I as just hoping for an easy solution but I was already using a DDS so it isn't a big deal.

@Everyone
Thanks.

@Mod
This can now be closed.

 

[shadowvzs]

That is what I decided to do. I as just hoping for an easy solution but I was already using a DDS so it isn't a big deal.

@Everyone
Thanks.

@Mod
This can now be closed.

sadly no solution, i wanted also figure out something but at end don't got better than useing DDS, well then already made 5 element ressitance too because with that really not big deal and more fun than simple magic and physical attack, mainly if u make custom item what got different element defence

 

[sentrywiz]

There's only one method for adding armor that I can think of, and it has serious downsides.

Make everything a hero, hide the hero UIs. Make agility give no attack speed, and 1 armor. For every armor, just add one agi.

This is a big downside. DotA adds armor in many spells and doesn't abuse Agility. So there are multiple ways of adding armor without doing "that"

@deathismyfriend - why not add an item ability with X number of levels to the hero, then modify the ability's level through triggers? You can remove it at any time, and it can be easily made with a timer.

 

[edo494]

there are tons of abilities that add bonus armor from items, use one of them

 

[deathismyfriend]

there are tons of abilities that add bonus armor from items, use one of them

Yes I was able to do it with those multiple abilities by addit each of them as needed but I was also using a DDS and I changed my method up a bit to suit m map better. Thanks though edo and sentrywiz

 

[edo494]

well yea with DDS you have a option to implement far more complex damage reduction forumlas. I didnt assume you use one tho

 

[deathismyfriend]

well yea with DDS you have a option to implement far more complex damage reduction forumlas. I didnt assume you use one tho

Ya I use one a lot. But I also didn't want that +1 or whatever to show up next to the armor so DDS was better option. And I was going to use it to reduce the amount of damage some of the times anyways so no big deal lol.

Thanks again though.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

This is a big downside. DotA adds armor in many spells and doesn't abuse Agility. So there are multiple ways of adding armor without doing "that"

@deathismyfriend - why not add an item ability with X number of levels to the hero, then modify the ability's level through triggers? You can remove it at any time, and it can be easily made with a timer.

I was talking about indefinitely adding any amount of armor.

What I mean is, there is no "Armor Tome", whereas there is a damage and hp tome and a mana workaround permanent glitch thing. If there's a method of perma-adding armor without agi use, please tell as that would be revolutionary.

 

[deathismyfriend]

I was talking about indefinitely adding any amount of armor.

What I mean is, there is no "Armor Tome", whereas there is a damage and hp tome and a mana workaround permanent glitch thing. If there's a method of perma-adding armor without agi use, please tell as that would be revolutionary.

If you take all of the item abilities to level mana and have each of them with 100 levels you could easily hit the integer limit for armor. But It would require some fine tuning for the level for the abilities and the system to control all of these abilities and their numbers.

 

[sentrywiz]

I was talking about indefinitely adding any amount of armor.

What I mean is, there is no "Armor Tome", whereas there is a damage and hp tome and a mana workaround permanent glitch thing. If there's a method of perma-adding armor without agi use, please tell as that would be revolutionary.

You're right, there is no armor tome.

But you don't need one, granted that you can just add passive armor boosts either many times or adjust the levels of that one ability. That way you can simulate an armor tome.

Still though, depends on what the map really needs. If its some rpg where you can allow players to go infinite armor, then adding +1 armor per use is okay.
If you have a general idea about an armor cap, then an item armor bonus with fixed levels will do.
And if you just have a need to add a % amount, you can add an item devotion aura and change the % to whatever you want.

It would be cool if wc3 had armor tome bonus, but it doesn't.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

You're right, there is no armor tome.

But you don't need one, granted that you can just add passive armor boosts either many times or adjust the levels of that one ability. That way you can simulate an armor tome.

Still though, depends on what the map really needs. If its some rpg where you can allow players to go infinite armor, then adding +1 armor per use is okay.
If you have a general idea about an armor cap, then an item armor bonus with fixed levels will do.
And if you just have a need to add a % amount, you can add an item devotion aura and change the % to whatever you want.

It would be cool if wc3 had armor tome bonus, but it doesn't.

Armor ability is undesirable because it's green numbers, and because you can't add any amount you want. You will always be limited based on levels. This actually does matter in RPG games where units can have over 100,000 armor over the course of the game or something.

 

[deathismyfriend]

Armor ability is undesirable because it's green numbers, and because you can't add any amount you want. You will always be limited based on levels. This actually does matter in RPG games where units can have over 100,000 armor over the course of the game or something.

Actually as I said above you could set how much armor they would give per level. The amount of armor abilities you have with 100 levels each would easily be enough to hit the integer limit. 100,000 would be easily achievable. It would be a pain to code it though on what levels to give of which ability.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

How would you code it to give armor anywhere inbetween 1 and 100,000? What would your level values be?

 

[deathismyfriend]

How would you code it to give armor anywhere inbetween 1 and 100,000? What would your level values be?

As I said above it would take a bit to get the exact numbers.
But one of the levels would be 100,000
You would have to stagger the ability bonuses and add different armor abilities and set the level to get different amounts of armor bonuses.

Example: Using Abi1 level 1 gives 1 level 2 gives 5 and Abi2 level 1 gives 2 level 2 gives 3.

With these 4 levels on 2 abilities I can add and set them to achieve an armor bonus of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8. The 6 is missing because this is not perfect. You would need more abilities and levels to scatter around the levels. But as you can see just 2 levels for 2 abilities gives 7 different bonuses.
You have 8 abilities in the OE that add armor. That means a total of 800 levels that you can offset.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

With a custom stat system, you can easily do this armor thing... Just have to add a bit to the formula and more abilities to hit the super high armor values. Should never give an ability more then 4 levels and if you do then it should be a good reason.

The way DotA increases armor is by researches/upgrades which is why tome of retraining doesn't exist in that map/game. However with this method you can increase armor without the green number/bonus.

I have seen maps do the same for range, changing range without having two pairs of units. It's called 4000 level researchs/upgrades. They work effectively and nobody should possibly reach that unless they actually tried. The kb add-on for that isn't much and as long as you handle it carefully it won't hit the maps load time that much and won't bother efficiency.

Sure its a crappy method, but sadly Blizzard didn't give us as much control as we needed/wanted over unit stats. At least there is still workarounds. =)