[Spell] how can i make a building shoot a blood of venom

[andreasaspenberg]

i am working on a spider race that have a building that throws a blood of venom but i have trouble getting it to work. what am i doing wrong?

 

[Dr Super Good]

what am i doing wrong?

Depends on what you are doing now. What are you doing now?

The blood is either part of the model, or hard coded. I am not sure which.

You could try creating it with triggers as an attached special effect but the attachments must still be valid through the death animation.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

my pc messes up my typing so, it replaced blob with blood. it was supposed to say a blob of venom. it is a weapon. for some reason it does not poison any enemies.

 

[Legal_Ease]

my pc messes up my typing so, it replaced blob with blood. it was supposed to say a blob of venom. it is a weapon. for some reason it does not poison any enemies.

You need to give more info if you want help.
Please answer the following (if they apply):

1. Is this "blob of venom" attack a normal attack?
   
2. Is it an ability in object editor?
   
3. Is it a triggered ability in GUI?
   
4. What kind of poison do you want?
   Envenomed poison?
   Slow poison?
   
5. What have you tried so far that did not work?
   
6. Did you create an ability?
   
7. What ability is the "base" ability? (meaning what did you start with and then modify)

Finally, if it involves any triggers, please post them in trigger tags. Example: [trigger]copy trigger as text and paste it here[/trigger] it will look like this:

Unit - a user posts a trigger

 

[andreasaspenberg]

it is an ability in the object editor working with the attack of the building.(not working in this case though). i used envenomed weapons as the base ability. i want the building to poison all targets of splash damage.

 

[Legal_Ease]

Did you make it so the ability has no requirements? The default orc ability has a requirement that you research it first. Did you turn check requirements off?

Does the building have an attack enabled? What attack type is the building using? I am not sure you can use splash but you can test it with other types, i.e. missile line, missile artillery.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i used the neutral one which does not have requirements. attack is set to missile splash.

 

[Legal_Ease]

i used the neutral one which does not have requirements. attack is set to missile splash.

Did you try setting attack to other things?

If you want poison splash, I recommend using decease cloud and creating custom buffs to make it look like venom. That has splash in the base spell already.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i want poison and not disease.

 

[WereElf]

You could just trigger the whole thing if you have a DDS:
When a unit takes damage from a unit with the ability - create a dummy that casts slow on them, or damages them, or casts an ability that damages + slows target. Whatever you want really.

 

[teozamait]

You cannot have Poison Splash based on Envenomed Weapons alone.

What you can do is either:

1. Set the attack type of the tower to Artillery and give your tower an ability based on Disease Cloud(Meat Wagon) which creates a unit with an ability based on Disease Cloud (Orb). This method will stack with the classical Disease Cloud if I recall, but Undead units will be completely immune to it and this disease will not kill units (just leave them with 1 HP).

2. Set the attack type of the tower to Artillery and give your tower an ability based on Disease Cloud(Meat Wagon) which creates a Dummy unit with a very small damage attack. Give that Dummy Unit an ability based on Envenomed Spears and give it a very fast attack and no attack backswing. If memory serves, the AI will tell that unit to auto-attack different units to spread the poison, so all units in the area will get poisoned if the attack is fast enough. Have the Dummy unit die after a few seconds (you can even have it die in 1 second if the attack is fast enough).

3. Trigger the whole thing.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

artillery is not required for splash as there is missile(splash). the ability does not affect the target at all as it is so if i can solve the issue with the ability failing to work i should be able to give it splash as well. the building`s attack does not do splash damage for some reason so something must be wrong there. please help me solve these issues.

 

[WereElf]

Did you check if the right attack (attack 1/ attack 2) has the right properties, and it's enabled?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

targets is set to enemy and ground, attack type is chaos while weapon type is missile(splash). have i done something wrong there?

 

[Legal_Ease]

i want poison and not disease.

You aren't listening. Don't ask for help if you don't want it.

You can make disease do what you want. You change the buff to look like poison and set the damage over time to the same thing. Boom! Poison. It's the same but with splash.

Envenomed Spears will never do what you want, it will never splash. Disease cloud will splash. Pay attention, we are trying to help you by answering your questions.

Do you know what a buff is and where to find it?

Do you need help learning how to change the buff?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

that was low. my current problem is to even get the splash damage of the building working as currently it is not.

 

[Legal_Ease]

It's not low. I am still trying to help you. Try creating disease cloud the way teozamait explained it to you and it will work. You are approaching the problem in the wrong way. If you want a building to shoot a spider venom missile and have it do envenomed spear type damage but also splash, then just create a custom ability in OE. Use disease cloud as the base. That means copy and paste it. The change the name, change the missile, change any effects. Then go to the buff and give your new ability the envenomed spears buff. Or! better yet! go create a custom buff and change the tooltip to exactly what you want.

I am not sure that splash damage works independently of an ability. If it does then it takes more than just changing the attack type. You would also need to change the other data in the combat section for splash radius and AOE damage.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

first things first: the problem with the building`s splash damage needs to be fixed before i can fix anything else. area of effect damage is already set. could the problem be a limit in the chaos attack type?

 

[Legal_Ease]

Possibly, but as I explained that is not necessary. You are free to test those things out. Try changing everything, like: is unit a building, attack type. Maybe try to match the combat settings with a unit that you know already does splash damage. Honestly, I can't think of any unit that does it without an ability like warhammers, burning oil or fragmentation shards. The problem may be that no matter what you set the combat data to it will not have splash. I don't know. What I do know is that if you just do what we told you to, then you will have a nice blob of venom hurled by the building at the enemies doing splash poison damage. It will be glorious!!! But, you don't seem to actually want that.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

the cannon tower is one building that deals splash damage without an ability. i tried to disable the envenomed weapons ability and the building still does not deal splash damage. i tried to change it to artillery but it still does not do splash damage. something is very wrong with that building but the big question is what.

 

[teozamait]

For the splash itself, there are about 6 fields in the object editor of the unit that you need to fill in if you want Missile (Splash), Artillery and Artillery (Line) to work. There is a separate target field you must put in (Ground, Air, Mechanical etc.) separate to the target field of the attack itself, this dictates what target will be hit by the splash. Then you need to put the radius of the attack (which is 3 fields: Small, Medium and Full) and then you need to decide how much damage (this is a percentage % of the attack damage) units in the Small and Medium Fields take (Full radius will deal Full damage of the attack).

Have a look at all the fields of the Frost Wyrm's 1st Attack in the object editor, everything you need to fill in is there. If you want the attacks to splash separately for ground and air then you need to use the unit's 2nd Attack as well (eg. Frost Wyrms only splash ground units, not air units).

Missile Splash will not create Disease Clouds, ONLY Artillery Attacks will.

Chaos and other damage types have nothing to do with this.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

everything checks out so, i am posting the map. it is the advanced gene lab(spider tech) you need to look at.

 

[Legal_Ease]

I dl'd it and will check it out. Why not just make a cannon tower as the base unit for your gene lab?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

there must be some way to solve the problem.

 

[Legal_Ease]

Did you try making the unit from a cannon tower? That will work. Also, doing what I said before will work too. I'm testing it now.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i want a research building that doubles as a defense building with splash damage. there have to be something that i have overlooked somewhere but the big question is where.

 

[Legal_Ease]

i want a research building that doubles as a defense building with splash damage. there have to be something that i have overlooked somewhere but the big question is where.

Where to start? First, your attitude is really what wasn't working right. Instead of saying "this isn't working" you should be asking "what am I doing wrong?" 99.99% of the time the program works exactly the way it is supposed to work. Very very rarely will a file become corrupted and then "it's not working right."

Next, when people tell you how to solve your problem. You should try it out and see if it works. You should say, "thank you" and give rep for good advice.

Finally, your combat setting were all off. If you remade the unit starting with a copy of the cannon tower like I said, it would have fixed it. You needed set the Area of Effect (small), (medium) and (large) to big enough numbers so it would hit more than one unit. You had it at 10. It needed to be something more like 125. Someone pointed this out to you but you said it was set correctly.

Anyway, here is your map back with a group of enemy peasants near the gene lab. It starts attacking them right away and you can see it does splash damage.

P.S. Oh ya, and WTF is up with all the Islamic militant shit in this map?

 

[teozamait]

Wow, I agree that he was a hard-head, but let's not get political over here.

 

[Legal_Ease]

Wow, I agree that he was a hard-head, but let's not get political over here.

I'm sorry. I still helped him but I thought it was strange the map had all kinds of references to Muslim extremists.

Also, I think it is more helpful to scold him for being hard headed than to fix his map for him without mentioning it. Knowledge is like a seed and needs fertile ground to flourish. Giving hand-outs doesn't help as much as teaching a proper approach to problem solving.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

the muslim extremists have been present for a long time as the ultimate outlaw faction and that is the only reason. i go to bed and while i am away you harass me because i am away. that is just plain rude. one problem still remains and that is to get the ability working.

 

[teozamait]

Chill out you two, no one has been harassing anyone, he was just trying to help

The ability will have to be triggered if you want reliable AOE poison. If you absolutely don't want triggers then change the attack type to Artillery and use Disease Cloud, I am afraid these are your only options!

 

[andreasaspenberg]

as it is the poison ability does not do anything. it does not poison even the first target as it is.

 

[teozamait]

Right, that's another issue....currently, what attack type does your building have? Missile or Missile (Splash) or Artillery?

It could be that Missile (Splash) and Artillery attacks completely disable Envenomed Weapons and all other Poison attacks. Try changing the attack type back to Missile and see if your ability works.

If I remember correctly, Artillery attacks should still allow the building to poison the main target that is hit (that is the target that it aquires first, if that target does not dodge the attack). Missile (Splash) might completely nullify any Poison abilities on your unit.

Did you change the Targets Allowed field of the poison ability in any way? Did you change its duration or any of the stacking flags?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

changing weapon type to missile caused the ability to work so i need an ability that can work with splash damage and cause poison.

 

[Legal_Ease]

changing weapon type to missile caused the ability to work so i need an ability that can work with splash damage and cause poison.

And that would be disease cloud you ingrate! I'm not making it for you or helping you because you do not know how to be polite.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i was asleep when you made the latest posts. demanding that people is present 24 hours a day is just plain rude. i want something other than disease cloud if possible.

 

[Legal_Ease]

I never asked you to be present. You can have all the time you need to sleep. Reply when ever is best for you. There is nothing rude about posting answers to your questions. Why don't you want to use disease cloud? You understand it won't be called disease cloud or look like disease cloud, right? It's just the spell you use as a base for the venom blob spell. Other spells might work, like the fire orb. That does splash damage. Possibly orb of annihilation does it too. Why don't you look for yourself?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i could not find fire orb and orb of annihilation did not add a buff because of a limit. disease cloud also will not work because it affects units nearby and not attack targets(the meat wagon actually relies on a dummy unit for its targeted disease cload effect.). any other suggestions?

 

[Legal_Ease]

Hey now, that was way nicer and more helpful. Good point. Orb of Fire is in the item ability section. Warhammer also deals splash damage. Try that one.

Sorry for ripping on you so hard. Test out warhammer and orb of fire and let me know what happens, ok?

 

[teozamait]

Without using a dummy unit there is no way to achieve what you want! There is not a single passive ability that can splash poison. You can either use Disease Cloud or you will have to use triggers. It's just these two, there aren't any other ways, trust me, I have been searching for one for a year.

Orb of Fire will not spread poison, neither will Orb of Anihillation, nor Cleave, nor chain attacks like the Huntresses, nor any other passive or semi-passive ability.

Disease Cloud is the only way of doing it, but it's a very decent solution. You can have the Disease Cloud last for just a second, or you can completely remove the disease from the actual cloud and give the cloud an attack of its own an Envenomed Weapons!

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i searched the ability lists and none of those abilities exist. please make sure that you refer to actual abilities in the future. dummy units could be found by players and as such it is bad to use that for a defensive building. it would also cause lag.

 

[teozamait]

Ok first of all, all of those abilities do exist (where did you search for them?): Cleave is a passive ability used by the Pit Lord (there is also a variation used by neutral creeps), Orb of Anihilation is used by the Undead Destroyer, Fire Bonus Attack is found under Item abilities and is used by the item Orb of Fire, and the chain attack is a another attack type called Missile (Chain).

Dummy units can be made completely invulnerable and unselectable by giving them the Locust ability, and you can make them invisible by deleting their shadows and giving them no Model.

The lag part would depend on how many units you have in your map. A dummy unit should not create more lag than a normal unit, and you need a lot of normal units to create significant lag.

If you don't want to use Disease Cloud then you will have to trigger the ability, and for that you need to start learning some tutorials. Since in your signature you say no tutorials, you just might be out of options.

 

[Legal_Ease]

Orb of Fire will not spread poison, neither will Orb of Anihillation, nor Cleave, nor chain attacks like the Huntresses, nor any other passive or semi-passive ability.

You are right. I knew this in the beginning but this guy had me so disheveled I totally forgot what we were talking about. I'll leave it to you. Good luck

 

[andreasaspenberg]

warhammer does not exist, nor does orb of fire. tutorials are too general but, i should be able to find out to trigger it on my own(i have a fairly good idea). is there any abilities that can poison with splash? update: it can not be triggered because buffs can not be added only removed. that means that i have to use an ability but the big question is which.

 

[teozamait]

You are being outright silly right now...Orb of Fire is called Fire Bonus damage or something similar under Item Abilities. Regardless, Orb of Fire WILL NOT spread poison.

I just told you that there are NO PASSIVE abilities that can poison with splash except Disease Cloud, there just aren't in the game! Why do you keep asking the same question when you have the answer?

Buffs can be added by having a dummy unit attack the targets...but that would be complicated for a splash attack, so again, you can use Disease Cloud and Pheonix Fire.

If you want active abilities, those will have to be manually cast EVERY time, the building will NOT auto-cast them AT ALL. Anyway abilities that deal Area of Effect Damage Over Time effects are Rain of Fire, Flamestrike (to some degree), Acid Bomb, Fire Breath and Frost Breath.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

disease cloud can not poison with splash, it uses dummy units. phoenix fire is completely broken. any other suggestions?

 

[teozamait]

disease cloud can not poison with splash, it uses dummy units. phoenix fire is completely broken. any other suggestions?

Pheonix Fire works fine....where do you come up with these things? "Pheonix Fire is broken"...

Any other suggestions would require you to trigger it. However, the trigger would most assuredly involve dummy units that attack all the targets to inflict poison.

You cannot escape dummy units if you want to achieve AOE poison. But you seem to refuse all options given to you, so I don't see a reason to bother any longer.

You have been given plenty of options in this thread, pick one and go with it. What you are looking for, a simple passive that inflicts AOE Poison, DOES NOT EXIST in the game, you have to understand that WC3 has a lot of hard-coded limitations that cannot be removed.

You can either use Disease Cloud and forgo Missile (Splash) attacks, you can look at some tutorials to help you trigger your ability or you can give up on your quest to achieve splash poison.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

none of the options i have been given works optimally. triggers can not add buffs, phoenix fire does not do area of effect damage. i can however use it for another project i am working on as it is a separate attack so it was not a complete waste. for the last time, disease cloud does not do splash damage. the corpse wagon creates a dummy unit on target which casts disease cloud. i have enough lag in my map already. forgo missile does not exist. tutorials will just overload me.

 

[teozamait]

none of the options i have been given works optimally. triggers can not add buffs, phoenix fire does not do area of effect damage. i can however use it for another project i am working on as it is a separate attack so it was not a complete waste. for the last time, disease cloud does not do splash damage. the corpse wagon creates a dummy unit on target which casts disease cloud. i have enough lag in my map already. forgo missile does not exist. tutorials will just overload me.

No options will work optimally, since you have to create something that was not designed with the game.

I know how Disease Cloud works. Disease Cloud (Meat Wagon) create a Dummy unit with Disease Clould (Ward) which DOES SPLASH. The fact that it's not the actual Disease Cloud (Meat Wagon) ability that does the actual splash is an insignificant technicality. What I was saying is using Disease Cloud (Meat Wagon) which will create a dummy unit:

That dummy unit can either:
1) Have the actual Disease Cloud (Ward) ability. Disease Cloud (Ward) causes all nearby living units (aka=splash) to be diseased instantly. You cannot get more splash than this. You can set the ward to live for 0.1 second and you will create a pure splash effect.

2) Have a modified Phoenix Fire spell on it (I wasn't saying add Phoenix Fire to the tower, but to the DUMMY UNIT!!!). You can make Phoenix Fire activate very fast, appearing to poison all units in the area. Phoenix Fire will not activate on a unit that already has Phoenix Fire, so it will only attack un-poisoned units.

3) Give the unit a very fast attack and Envenomed Weapons.

Disease Clouds (the units) create very little lag, as they can be issued no orders and most importantly cannot MOVE (movement and pathing issues are the main lag-causers in a map). Phoenix Fire and Disease Cloud (Ward) are excellent for this, as there are no Attack orders issued, the ability just goes off, thereby causing very little lag.

Dummy Units cause very little lag, , do you see your framerate go down just because 4-5 Meat Wagons have create 4-5 Disease Clouds?

How many of these towers do you think players would create? Surely no more than 10 of them on an average play. Disease Cloud on your buildings would hardly cause noticeable lag.

Wait...I may have another solution...Check the Demolisher's Burning Oil ability. I think you still need an Artillery type attack to make it work but it creates no Dummy Units and it has a small Damage Over Time effect.

 

[SAUS]

I think envenomed spears will override the attack - it removes the splash damage completely.

If you want the effect to be EXACTLY what envenomed spears does, except with splash, that is going to take a DDS and a bunch of triggers. It is quite complex. I hope you can settle for a more simple solution (burning oil one sounds good), but here's some pseudo code for how you could make it work exactly like envenomed spears.

When the special tower is built, you create a dummy unit for that tower. You will have to index the tower or use a hashtable so you can get the tower's specific dummy.

The dummy unit needs to be able to attack and should have your envenomed spears ability. Make sure the dummy has big range and instant attack.

Have the tower deal normal splash damage with no abilities. When the tower deals damage to any unit, you have the dummy for that tower attack the unit that took damage. This will apply the envenomed spears buff on them. I think you need to do something to allow the dummy to attack more than once at a time, but I don't know the details. I think you pause and unpause the unit or something, but I would need confirmation on how that works.

This will make the tower deal splash envenomed spears.

Otherwise, you could use a dummy with tornado aura and immolation. You would have to detect when the attack hits (you could trigger the splash damage from the tower using a DDS or do some hacky method where you basically run a timer that guesses how long it will take for the projectile to hit - doesn't work well with homing projectiles though). You spawn the dummy when the attack hits.