Custom Race Balancing question

[Raxistaicho]

For a custom campaign I plan to make in the future, I've been working to create more of a cohesive Blood Elf/Naga race, meaning they're geared more like an actual race rather than you simply possessing units from one underpowered race and one grossly overpowered race.

(I posted this here because I wasn't certain whether there was a better place to put it. If this isn't the appropriate place, I apologize for the mistake)

Here's my current work, please tell me what you think:

Current changes:
Town Hall:
Worker: Given the ability to deploy a short-lived turret to compensate for Blood Elves not possessing militia.

Barracks:
Swordsmen: Given Blood Mage vocals and BE Lieutenant model.
Archer: Tech requirements reworked a bit, customized to be mounted and given an appropriate buff to movement speed. Increased resource cost. Uses iron weapons, leather armor upgrades.
Balista: Glaive Thrower w/ RoC model. Uses iron weapons, iron armor upgrades.

Arcane Sanctum: Unchanged.

Blacksmith: "Gun" type upgrades replaced with coral weapon upgrades. Sword upgrade line renamed to "[Material] Forged Weapons".

Workshop: Replaced with "Hall of Waters", a Naga-producing building. Uses RoC High Elven Barracks model and plays Temple of the Tides sounds upon click. Produces Naga Myrmidons, Naga Sirens and Dragon Turtles, and contains upgrades for the appropriate units.

Naga Myrmidons: Requires Castle, resource cost increased. Submerge no longer requires upgrade. Uses iron armor upgrades.
Dragon Turtle: Seige damage removed. Spiked Shell and Hardened skin requires upgrades before use (re-imagined as a heavy tank unit that charges in front to draw fire). Uses leather armor upgrades.
Naga Sirens: Unchanged, but I'm considering replacing Cyclone with another spell. It's a bit much to have that along with Myrmidons having ensnare and Dragon Turtles having consume.

Aviary: Renamed to just Aviary. Couatls added alongside Dragonhawk Riders.

Where I'm stuck at is what to do with Couatls. They're such a balance mess that I don't even know where to start. They're a heavy-hitting, light, kinda-squishy cheap flying unit that's also slightly anti-mage. I'm probably going to start with a completely new concept for them. Do any of you guys have suggestions for where to start?

 

[VeljkoM]

I think you could be little more creative than that. But lets make useful criticism now instead.

-Good that you are thinking about early defense mechanic, but turret at least to me sounds unpractical and overlaps with regular towers.
-Hope footmen/swordsmen get something else instead of defend. If you can';t think of anything there is still anti magic defend.
-Archer sounds more fun now, don't forget to increase food to 3 though.
-Ballista maybe could use custom blood elven model instead?
-only archers seems to use leather armor upgrades and everyone uses same attack upgrade. Maybe mix naga and elf units more and have naga and elf upgrades.
-I thought siege mech units didn't get armor upgrades usually
-Myrmidon should replace net with a passive or stat upgrade. You don't need net when you have Dragonhawks really.
-Siren should lose tornado but not because of net and devour but because of sorceresses who already has polimorph. Kinda problematic that you have 3 casters and anti caster.
- Not exactly reimagining, more like cutting turtle in half. Doesn't he overlap with Myrmidon now? Tier 3 melee units are generally toughest. And actually if you think about it all races do have two siege units (human: engine and mortar, orcs: raider and demolisher, elves: giant with tree, g.thrower and chimera, undead just meat wagon and frost breath). You don't have to remove the siege aspect to increase the tanking aspect, versatility of units isn't a bad thing.
-Coutle sort of now only has a choice to become heavy air unit. Dragonhawk already is light air AA unit and you have spellbreaker as anti-caster unit. If you do make him anti-caster anyway you would still need heavy air unit.

Overall it still seems more blood elf oriented race as naga get 4 units while elves get 8.

 

[Raxistaicho]

I wanted to keep it pretty true to the source, which is why it wasn't changed all that much.

-Hope footmen/swordsmen get something else instead of defend. If you can';t think of anything there is still anti magic defend.

Yes, I intend to change them a bit, I'm gonna get back to them later.

-only archers seems to use leather armor upgrades and everyone uses same attack upgrade. Maybe mix naga and elf units more and have naga and elf upgrades.

Archers, Dragonhawk Riders, Couatls and Dragon Turtles all use the Leather Armor. Swordsmen, Myrmidons and Spellbreakers use Ion Armor, so if anything there's more units with Leather than not.

And the Myrmidons, Couatls and Dragon Turtles use the Coral weapon upgrades.

-I thought siege mech units didn't get armor upgrades usually

You're actually right. I hadn't noticed that Glaive Throwers, Demolishers and Meat Wagons didn't get armor upgrades. Thanks for pointing that out

-Myrmidon should replace net with a passive or stat upgrade. You don't need net when you have Dragonhawks really.

I considered that, but most races have at least two units that are strong against air units:

Human: Copters, Seige Engines after upgrade.
Undead: Feinds, Gargs.
NE: Riderless Hippos, DotT Hawk Form.
Orc: Raider, Batrider.

But I could possible have that be a function of the Couatls anyways. I was considering giving Myrmidons more of a unique skill.

And actually if you think about it all races do have two siege units (human: engine and mortar, orcs: raider and demolisher, elves: giant with tree, g.thrower and chimera, undead just meat wagon and frost breath). You don't have to remove the siege aspect to increase the tanking aspect, versatility of units isn't a bad thing.

That's actually a REALLY good point, thanks for bringing that up. I still think I'll require Spiked Shell and Hardened Skin to be upgraded to use, though.

-Coutle sort of now only has a choice to become heavy air unit. Dragonhawk already is light air AA unit and you have spellbreaker as anti-caster unit. If you do make him anti-caster anyway you would still need heavy air unit.

Yeah, makes sense.

Overall it still seems more blood elf oriented race as naga get 4 units while elves get 8.

I've been thinking about how to do this. I may replace the Swordsmen with Mur'Gul Reavers (after rebalancing those numbers. Cheaper than Ghouls, hits as hard as Grunts - ouch! @.@). The only real problem after that is the only units left would be Royal Guards and Snap Dragons. Snap Dragons are wholly unremarkable aside from being serviceable ranged units and RG's would be kinda redundant and become super-heavy melee units (after getting nerfed severely), making Myrmidons a little pointless.

 

[VeljkoM]

Archers, Dragonhawk Riders, Couatls and Dragon Turtles all use the Leather Armor. Swordsmen, Myrmidons and Spellbreakers use Ion Armor, so if anything there's more units with Leather than not.

And the Myrmidons, Couatls and Dragon Turtles use the Coral weapon upgrades.

Well usually upgrades are separated between ranged units and melee units (well rather normal damage users). Also leather turtles sound silly. Still as long as upgrades are divided equally through all tiers it should be ok.

That's actually a REALLY good point, thanks for bringing that up. I still think I'll require Spiked Shell and Hardened Skin to be upgraded to use, though.

Yeah definitely, though I personally think that Spiked Shell isn't all that efficient ability. Guess Turtle will be something like Siege Engine/Giant combo in the end.

I considered that, but most races have at least two units that are strong against air units:

Human: Copters, Seige Engines after upgrade.
Undead: Feinds, Gargs.
NE: Riderless Hippos, DotT Hawk Form.
Orc: Raider, Batrider.

But I could possible have that be a function of the Couatls anyways. I was considering giving Myrmidons more of a unique skill.

Yes you are right but none of the choices are tier 3 melee units and are instead air units or special role units (though I never bother to use half of those units myself really). Tier 3 melee on the other hand tend to have abilities that don't need much or micromanagement as they serve as the main battle line. You already have AA flying unit, ground one would be more fitting. Perhaps replace one of the casters since you do have lots of casters. Hard choice I know.

I've been thinking about how to do this. I may replace the Swordsmen with Mur'Gul Reavers (after rebalancing those numbers. Cheaper than Ghouls, hits as hard as Grunts - ouch! @.@). The only real problem after that is the only units left would be Royal Guards and Snap Dragons. Snap Dragons are wholly unremarkable aside from being serviceable ranged units and RG's would be kinda redundant and become super-heavy melee units (after getting nerfed severely), making Myrmidons a little pointless.

Could work maybe make the little buggers jump even. Snap Dragons are really not needed when you have archers and RGs are really too powerful for melee. RG would be better as advanced individual upgrade for myrmidon but it still would need nerfing.

 

[Raxistaicho]

Well usually upgrades are separated between ranged units and melee units (well rather normal damage users). Also leather turtles sound silly. Still as long as upgrades are divided equally through all tiers it should be ok.

Actually only the Orcs split upgrades between ranged and melee. The alliance splits them between guns/not guns (Dragonhawks and Gryphons are ranged, both use Forged Swords despite neither actually using swords), and the Undead and Night Elves both split upgrades between humanoids and beast units.

Yeah definitely, though I personally think that Spiked Shell isn't all that efficient ability. Guess Turtle will be something like Siege Engine/Giant combo in the end.

Point. Maybe I'll just have Hardened Skin be an upgrade.

Yes you are right but none of the choices are tier 3 melee units and are instead air units or special role units (though I never bother to use half of those units myself really). Tier 3 melee on the other hand tend to have abilities that don't need much or micromanagement as they serve as the main battle line. You already have AA flying unit, ground one would be more fitting. Perhaps replace one of the casters since you do have lots of casters. Hard choice I know.

That's true.

Could work maybe make the little buggers jump even. Snap Dragons are really not needed when you have archers and RGs are really too powerful for melee. RG would be better as advanced individual upgrade for myrmidon but it still would need nerfing.

I like the idea of RG's being an advanced upgrade for Myrmidon, kinda like Troll Berserkers from Troll Headhunters.

7 Bloods Elves and 5 Naga are a little less extreme than 8 and 4. Besides, the "human" force is composed of 5 dwarves, 4 elves and 3 humans XD

And I'm thinking of changing Sirens from casters to something specialized, but I haven't decided on a specific role. That should be good to even up the upgrades:

Iron Weapons: Archer, Seige unit (I don't wanna go into much detail about this one because I'm still in planning about it. Basically, I was only saying Ballista as a stand-in, I found some really nice fanmade skins for BE Seige machine), Dragonhawk, Spellbreaker.

Iron Armor: Spellbreaker, Mur'gul, Myrmidon, Dragon Turtle.

Coral Weapons: Mur'gul, Myrmidon, Siren, Dragon Turtle, Couatl.

Leather Armor: Archer, Siren, Dragonhawk, Couatl.