Is it worth making maps?

[Krakenn99]

Read it all before commenting please.

So I'm working on a AoS type map. Everything is standard - somewhat unique heroes, items, creep spawning and everything. I tested it with a guy and his only comment was "another dota copy" I asked how is it a dota copy and he replied by saying "item recipes, creeps and stuff, why would anyone play it when you have dota, league or dota2". This made me quit making the map, like really why would anyone play my map if there are many better maps than mine?... So I am asking you guys even if your map is not AoS, what's the point in making a map when there will always be other popular maps. What are the chances that your map can get popular?

IS IT WORTH SPENDING COUNTLESS HOURS IN TRIGGERING AND BALANCING WHEN THERE IS ALMOST NO CHANCE FOR YOUR MAP TO BE PLAYED BY OTHER PEOPLE!?

 

[Shar Dundred]

If you're doing it for popularity, you shouldn't do it at all.

That is all.

 

[Krakenn99]

If you're doing it for popularity, you shouldn't do it at all.

That is all.

I am mainly doing it as a hobby but I also want to see people enjoying my creations.

 

[edo494]

Yes I also feel that making maps at this point of time may be a bit redundant, because how many people will realistically play your map? but the most important thing after all is, do you enjoy making the map? if you do, even if noone plays it, its worth it

 

[Krakenn99]

Yes I also feel that making maps at this point of time may be a bit redundant, because how many people will realistically play your map? but the most important thing after all is, do you enjoy making the map? if you do, even if noone plays it, its worth it

The thing is I LOVE MAKING MAPS but the main reason I make them is to play with other people, to enjoy them with other players. There is no point in making a multiplayer map when you are going to play it by yourself. You see, there is a huge satisfaction when you test your map with people and they respond to it "awesome map gj".

 

[takakenji]

its easier if you have a group of friends who play wc3 too, then you can play your own map together

 

[Ralle]

You should not let a single person's opinion take you down. If I did so, Hive would be gone, because Hive is just another forum about Warcraft. Now it's the only one, the best one. There will always be people who don't appreciate your work and even though they may be 1%, they weigh more in your mind than the 99% who appreciate it. That is just how it is.

Also, DotA is just another copy of something that came before it. Think about the Call of Duty games, they are just other copies of Counter-Strike. But they all bring something new to the table. I am sure your map does this too. So keep working and inventing new things for your map.

 

[Krakenn99]

You should not let a single person's opinion take you down. If I did so, Hive would be gone, because Hive is just another forum about Warcraft. Now it's the only one, the best one. There will always be people who don't appreciate your work and even though they may be 1%, they weigh more in your mind than the 99% who appreciate it. That is just how it is.

Also, DotA is just another copy of something that came before it. Think about the Call of Duty games, they are just other copies of Counter-Strike. But they all bring something new to the table. I am sure your map does this too. So keep working and inventing new things for your map.

That gave me some motive, thanks man.

 

[Chaosy]

Nope, not worth it.

Spend half a year (if not more) to develop a map and it will likely not even be played on a volume worth mentioning.

Sure if you have fun while creating it, that's great, but you might as well leave it unreleased to the public unless the result is spectacular. And let's be honest not even 1% of the maps succeed.

Which is why I rush the few maps I have finished, which resulted in a average rating of 3/5. (one of two reasons actually, but the other one is not related to this thread so..)

 

[Winimasker]

If like that, then there will be less maps/games released every years.

People inspire people! Go ahead! We always support you!

Look at us! We are exciting for your map's/game's release! Why not?

- - - - - - -

If you're doing it for popularity, you shouldn't do it at all.

That is all.

Still need to consider players' preferences (what do they want? -> competition style, high graphics, addicted game-play, etc.) and convenience (for example, QWER keys, proper lighting and so on) for designing/developing a good map/game (like DotA). Think of players, players, players!

Still cannot escape from that. Doing for popularity/major players is the key to bring in a very good game.
- - - - - - -
Just enjoy your map/game foundation progress! Just be yourself! Remember! You are not that guy, you are not controlled by him and restricted by his opinions. You're our Krakenn99!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

If you're doing it for popularity, you shouldn't do it at all.

That is all.

This.
You can start to care for popularity when you reach a point in which you just get frustrated with mapping.

At the beginning it's all about fun and personal goals. And it should be.


The problem you have "oh, just another clone" is basicly exclusive to AoS-style maps. Simply because it's hard to get innovation into the genre. Blizzard tried with Heroes of the Storm to bring innovation to the gameplay. ... and they more or less failed with it. Dunno, they haven't published sales numbers.

Now, don't get me wrong; AoS style maps are great for beginners, because they take very little triggering skill to get them working. But that also means that the amount of freedom you have in designing the map is pretty limited.

If you want to create a map that people will play, I'd say think about something different. There are a lot of genres that are greatly underrepresented with living projects.


If you like some ideas, here is what I accumulated on ideas over the years, but never came around actually making, since I am too busy with Gaias:
- dungeon-keeper esque competitive strategy game
- hex-based tactical turn-based strategy RPG
- ATB-combat (think of final fantasy) based Sci-Fi RPG
- 2D visual-novel style dating sim game
- dungeon-crawler with randomized dungeons and loot
- a point-and-click adventure game

Note that all these ideas are not suited for a first project. Except for the dating sim, they all require a lot more triggering knowledge than a run-of-the-mill AoS or TD.

 

[pred1980]

You should never give up!!!
And if only a few people play your map and give feedback. It's better than nothing. Indeed, to get feedback if you have a MP map is hard. I know that. I have the same problem
To have a small group of friends who plays your map is enough. They found enough bugs and give ideas to fill your time with mapping Believe me!

Here on hive are enough examples of good mappers never gave up. It's just a question of your attitude!!!

I hope i could motivate you a bit

to me: I'm the leader of the Project "Forsaken Bastion's Fall" I started my project in 2008 AND IM STILL HERE!! You understand what i'm gonna tell you?
DONT GIVE UP OR I KILL U

 

[Winimasker]

Burnout is worse. I burnout/give up after making those stuffs in 2014. ... Such 1 wasted year...

*

Look at my previous status, it is worse for someone to burnout/give up just because I overdo those stuffs. Also, I become lazy until I joined the community here, THW. After staying here for a longer period of time, I get motivation again by THW resources (start to make resources in 2015).
- - - - - - -
It is amazing if you keep in moving ahead without going back/retreating!

Stop retreating! Soldiers never retreat during the war!

Don't be like me! Be like soldiers! Keep on moving! We gotta move! Let's create masterstrokes! We're here for the same purposes! You have your dream; you have your future goal; you have your own thinking! You are awesome!

We all are awesome! It is better for someone to show off some stuffs rather than terminating excellent stuffs' progress.

It's worth for you to do it, better than doing nothing!

Go ahead! Let's have a show!

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

This quickly turned into a motivational ted talk thread.

Anyway, what Ralle said minus the we're the last WC3 forum part. Last active modding site for sure, though.
Zwiebelchen was on point as well.

WHEN THERE IS ALMOST NO CHANCE FOR YOUR MAP TO BE PLAYED BY OTHER PEOPLE!?

How is there no chance, or even little chance? I say it's a high chance if you actually host it. Yeah, it depends on the server (bnet vs gameranger vs eurobattle etc), but I don't think they differ that much in time you have to wait for a new map to fill. I don't think playerbase is a problem, so do what you want to do

 

[Winimasker]

Remember this word "affort".

Affort is worthy.

Your affort on making all of your stuffs wins everything!

Make an all out affort!

As all of us said, just do it!
- - - - - - -
I remember that my teacher told all students and me a story. Yeah, that is actually the general truth. A male student is lazy so he always sleeps in the class during the lectures. He awakened after the accident on the road. He lost his one eye and his legs got fractured. He knew something, life is short. And he knew that he should do something that is meaningful in this world. That is the only reason he started to study hard.

Just tell you this truth to remind you something are important, your affort and your hard working. Wake up! Wake up! ~! Make stuffs and show us! Do it!

 

[Bribe]

Make small projects which can be shared with the community so everyone can benefit. That's what I do.

 

[pick-a-chew]

If you have a group of Wc3 friends, or you even just know a Wc3 group, then you can expect that your creation will be played a bit.

One thing i've spotted about MMH and the current bnet playerbase is that it is very impressionable; if you repeatedly host a map, then not only does it draw players, you also end up having other people host it when you're not.

Also worth mentioning, if you want popularity, you need to make a game that scales well with players, ideally a game that can be played from 1 player up to 12 players without too much balancing issues, since sometimes it might be easy to grab 8+ players whilst other times you might struggle to get more than 2. (and the only way to gain popularity is to play the map rather than spending an eternity for a fullhouse)

On the otherhand, i'm sure many of us here have had "solo" projects that we make just for fun, and just for us to play. E.g. I made a custom melee race and sometimes play it when i get bored of melee races.

 

[OutsiderXE]

In a way the guy that tested it is right. If you look at professional video games they usually have a unique selling point, or surpass the original in terms of quality.

 

[deepstrasz]

If you really want to do something, do what you like. Thinking of failure is not an option for creators. If everyone or most people would think in a pessimistic way nothing or so less content would there be here on the Hiveworkshop or even anywhere! Moreover it's best that people do what they're good at and not exactly what they want. A society has more to grow from those type of seeds.

This.
Blizzard tried with Heroes of the Storm to bring innovation to the gameplay. ... and they more or less failed with it. Dunno, they haven't published sales numbers.

I'm afraid they actually did innovate a lot. I prefer HotStorm over DotA, LoL, HoN and whatnot. I don't play those except Heroes of the Storm. I've even given up on the Warcraft DotA back on the days...
For instance I find these two innovative in the MOBA/AoS/Hero Brawler genre(s):
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/mocos-dawn-glory-2-0-a-80813/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/aeon-war-155269/

Now, don't get me wrong; AoS style maps are great for beginners, because they take very little triggering skill to get them working. But that also means that the amount of freedom you have in designing the map is pretty limited.

There is no limit to designing and implementing as long as imagination serves! Low triggering skills for an AoS? What kind of map would that be...

 

[Krakenn99]

Thanks a lot everyone, I did not expect so many people to reply.