Is there a way to showcase Object Editor-only spells?

[Bribe]

The Spells section has a huge focus on highlighting interesting triggered spells. Maps showcase a fully-built project full of object editor spells and triggered spells.

What about a forum dedicated to showcasing creative usage of Object Editor-only data? Interesting gameplay/artistic mechanics come to mind. Art is rather subjective, but continuity and theme of that artwork is a worthwhile pursuit.

If it is too simple to merit its own forum for people to start new threads to show off their work, then I can add a stickied thread to WEHZ (or no thread at all if no one cares).

Criteria:

- Spell cannot use triggers
- Spell can use custom models smaller than "50"KB (not sure if custom models should be allowed and - if so - they should be small to import so as to not take up too much map size to be worth importing)
- Spell must have some kind of visual change outside of simply editing tooltips/damage.

I think many maps don't need so many triggered spells, and if we could show off some neat tricks just in Object Editor, they can enrich many maps while not being buried in obscurity simply because they weren't triggered.

 

[Wasabee]

I like the idea of 'simple' spells forum because this would also enhance your creativity in dealing with object-editor spells like making a good spell where others may think of it as a triggered spell.


-Spells cannot use triggers
Triggers could be allowed as long as it's not too complicated and understandable by simple users.

-Spell can use custom models smaller than "50"KB
Custom models should be allowed but it could be raised to 80 KB or more but not exceeding 1 MB.

 

[Bribe]

If triggers are allowed, it might as well be submitted in the Spells section. I'm just looking for a way to highlight creative spells that don't qualify to be in the Spells section but do qualify to be imported universally in maps.

For example, most of the spells I used in my old map http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/warchasers-ii-vengeance-147306/ were done in object editor but some of the people playing thought they were triggered. Some pretty cool spells are possible without trigger editor!

 

[Wasabee]

I'm referring to simple triggers where some little modifications to the spells but if its unjustifiable then it's fine.

I also used simple modified spells with little triggers in my altered melee map .
Off-topic: I'll try your map in some time.

 

[Daffa]

I approve such idea, there are lots of tricky spells that can be deceiving to one's eyes.

 

[PurgeandFire]

I don't think it should warrant its own forum (we don't want to spread ourselves too thin), but why not the lab? That is pretty much the "terrain board" for spells/system stuff. Not too many people have used it that way (yet), but that was its original purpose.

 

[BETABABY]

I'm referring to simple triggers where some little modifications to the spells but if its unjustifiable then it's fine.

I also used simple modified spells with little triggers in my altered melee map .
Off-topic: I'll try your map in some time.

Perhaps simple triggered special effects which some abilities can't achieve. Also like creating a dummy unit as a means of just eye-candy to one's spell.

 

[Legal_Ease]

I would think one at a time would be fairly useless, but if they came in packs that would be better, but even then, that's not a lot to put in a single download. Maybe if they came in super-packs with say 5-10 heroes will all custom spells. There could be a filter on the spells section for these types of spell packs. Some could be GUI enhanced. The rules wouldn't have to be super strict but it would let people share OE spells. Also, I agree that OE is under-rated. I know personally, I don't even know it's full capability because channel is a powerful spell and I rarely even attempt to modify it.

If there were a change to the spells rules section, I would suggest:

1. OE Spell packs must contain 10 or more spells that were each unique and not simply a default with a new buff, damage or stun time.
2. Trigger enhancement is allowed but then it must be leakless and MUI.
3. Packs should follow a theme or set of themes.
4. If a spell required import of buffs or models, then they must have instructions for each spell requiring multiple pieces.

 

[Almia]

Packs should be better. Resources with maps which only contain a single or more object data is sad to download(more like a waste of time). Tho using triggers should be removed. We need vanilla OE(except Imports).

 

[Legal_Ease]

Packs should be better. Resources with maps which only contain a single or more object data is sad to download(more like a waste of time). Tho using triggers should be removed. We need vanilla OE(except Imports).

Sure, scrap the triggers. Pure OE is good too. But ... then why the imports? Shouldn't the point be to make pure OE based spells that can be imported with one or two cuts and pastes.

 

[Plunders]

I support the suggestion of a forum/sub forum for OE spells and tricks.
But i think the criteria for a post should be:

1: You need to upload a test map along with the post.

2: A good post description, if what you're showing us is tricky then make a mini tutorial.

3: Imported files should not be allowed, so it's easy to import.

4: Triggers could be allowed, but should be kept simple. Meaning not using Variables, Jass or Custom scripts.

 

[teozamait]

I thinks this is a brilliant idea! In fact, creating interesting spells without triggers is the one thing that I am actually pretty darn good at.

I agree with clear limits such as no triggers involved/maybe just very, very minor triggers.

But the interesting thing about object-editor only spells is their interactions with edited units and other spells, since the spells by themselves cannot be changed too much.

Anyway, I am looking forward to this, I definitely would contribute to such a forum with "resources".

 

[Legal_Ease]

Bribe,

Can we have a forum where people can just post these things like in Map Development? Just threads, no need for moderation an approval. Just a sharing spot. At least to start? This would at least get the idea off the ground.

 

[Xonok]

Alternatively I would find it quite useful if there were melee-friendly spells. Stuff that you can just import into a melee game without massively unbalancing everything. Tbh I've always found it a bit strange that with all our advances in modelling and terraining we don't really have all so many add-ons to melee maps. Alternative melees typically rework balance to such a large degree that it's like a different game.

 

[Almia]

and then we could submit spell templates, trick spells(e.g. unitwalking) and more

 

[IcemanBo]

What about to make it a sub forum of the lab?
It would share the "experimental" mentality, but
it would be seperated from the code scripts there.

 

[Xonok]

I sense this leads us in more than one direction.

1. Object-editor stuff because it's noob-friendly.
2. Object-editor stuff to stay close to the core mechanics.
3. Some combination.

I would not have much to provide for an OE-only section, although it would be interesting to see what people have made. Moderating this section seems easy, since the requirements can be quite straightforward(example):
1. No triggers(or only basic ones?)
2. No imports(optional).

Alternatively... Maybe what matters is not whether things are made in object-editor, but the overall simplicity. Triggers and imports can be fine, as long as they don't require much effort from the user. This mostly rules out generic systems and vastly complex spells - which we already have 2 sections for.
So basically, this section would be for well-made low-maintenance spells?

I imagine this would cause a flood of general low-quality and obvious stuff. We'd need something to either block them out or make use of them. One possible idea is that there's a stickied thread where all the easier tricks are kept. Stuff that anyone could do after a little bit of looking around in editor.
If such a sticky is to exist, then all submissions relying solely on those or a simple combination of those gets rejected. Exceptionally good submissions might get through even if the components are nothing new.

Overall I feel this section would be more like a hands-on and centralized tutorial section. Tutorials tend to be scattered, while this would be the go-to place for anyone that wants to make awesome stuff without much prior experience.

 

[Dr Super Good]

In StarCraft II I would agree as the data editor is very customizable. However in WC3 all standard abilities have been used to death and so unfortunately are quite boring. Giving cluster rockets some clever art does not make it any less boring than cluster rocket already is.

 

[Deleted member 238226]

i totally support this. it's really an good idea. i, for myself, found it's really helping and useful.

 

[Legal_Ease]

In StarCraft II I would agree as the data editor is very customizable. However in WC3 all standard abilities have been used to death and so unfortunately are quite boring. Giving cluster rockets some clever art does not make it any less boring than cluster rocket already is.

I hear this, but I think people can do some surprising things. For example, I bet Bribe has a few impressive OE spells in a folder somewhere. Also, I have made things like locust using the possession missile. Ya, boring, simple, but though I did not know it at the time, it is a spell on dota2. Also, there are things you can do with channel, that are totally new-ish. Either way noob-friendly is good. It makes the hive more fun for new comers and grows our numbers. I do agree moderation might be needed to keep out the shockwaves with missile variations. Though cyclone missile looks pretty sweet there.

 

[Chaosy]

Never been into object editor spells. Mostly because they are usually hard to modify if that would be needed.
Provided that it's a damn good object editor spell which makes up for the fact that it's not flexible.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Super-Necro-post, but a worthwhile topic: I didn't know anyone else really even thought about this kinda stuff.

This is pretty much entirely the Plane which I inhabit; everything I like to make revolves around adding to the normal game, so I do everything within my power to make things that are A) balanced with it & B) 'native' to it; Object Editor work-arounds are just the name of the game there (and in fact, it's the central principle to this nifty Contest). Occasionally some light trigger-work.

The trouble with trying to classify it is that, past the "triggers/no triggers" line, there's really no way to quantify it. How "little" is "little" (when talking of triggering)? Where would the line be drawn? I don't have an answer for that; I'm not sure there is one.

Should there be a whole separate forum for this stuff? Eh... Not so sure. I don't think it's a very wide field, and also I must acknowledge that we can be a shifty, secretive lot. I know personally, aside from my Contest entries (WINK WINK) I like to keep my research & especially my discoveries rather close to the chest; it being essentially my one claim-to-fame, I'd like for people to say "wow, that came from Kyrbi0!"; seeing it for the first time, ya dig? Ach, not very community minded of me, I know, but... There it is.

 

[Ralle]

We have these tags:

• GUI / Triggers
• JASS
• UMSWE GUI / Triggers
• vJASS

Why not make one for "No Code" or "Codeless"?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I support that and I also support that reasonable custom assets (<<100 kb) be allowed for such spells. A combination of clever object editor hackery and some well made models might be able to turn boring old standard spells into something exiting and new players never thought was possible. The spells should still be non-trivial and developers are encouraged to make a few of them in any demo map.

 

[Kyrbi0]

We have these tags:

• GUI / Triggers
• JASS
• UMSWE GUI / Triggers
• vJASS

Why not make one for "No Code" or "Codeless"?

Eh, sure? That would provide a vehicle for it to exist, but would that change public opinion about it's efficacy or relevance (is the question)?

 

[Ralle]

Who are we to do that? I mean. I guess someone could create a thread to show examples of this.

 

[Bribe]

A thread to show examples of codeless, yet creative spells?

 

[Ralle]

Sure.

The tag has been created by the way.