Achieving a better spell section:

[Deuterium]

Introduction: The Issue

As we've been seeing lately, the spell section moderation has been very poor over the last few months. Yet, no approach to improve the spell section moderation has been made.

What we expected after the "purge" was actually getting spells reviewed, instead, barely any are getting reviewed (every few days some spells are reviewed).

I. Active moderation

So what I'm asking for here? More moderators? No.

What we really need are active moderators!

None of the present moderators are active in any way as they're "busy with real life". And still, such an excuse in my opinion is senseless as no matter how busy they're lives are, 5 spells a day (the supposed upload average in my opinion) out of which usually 3 could be instantly rejected, won't take more than 30 minutes a day. Having 3 moderators, that's 10 minutes per each a day.

And since we need to clean the spell section now, if each moderator works 30 minutes a day, then in a few months the section would have all spells reviewed.

If the current moderators aren't able of doing their job, then new moderators should be chosen to replace them.

II. Trusted Reviewers List

Well, I also have an idea to make reviewing for the moderators easier:
Making a list of the trusted spell reviewers.

The moderators should make a list of those trusted reviewers for both GUI and (v)Jass. That way, when they check the spells, if they can skim through the reviews, and then compare it to the code, and if the reviews seems logical, either approve or reject according to them (all that won't take more than 2 or 3 minutes per spell).

III. Spell Section's Sub-Sections

Now this isn't an essential, but an advice to make the spell section neater.

The spell section should have "sub-sections". Something close to how it's done in wc3c. Three sections would be enough:
1. Vanialla GUI and Jass spells
2. vJass spell
3. Systems

And an additional optional section:
4. External systems (which links to external systems on other sites, 'cause really, most of the used systems don't get uploaded to the hive).

I mean really, all that would only make the section neater, and nicer to use.

IV. The Update Box: Brainstorming

Here I'd be posting any interesting ideas by the fellow users (as long as their logical and useful).

Last Words

Although I don't think any changes would be made as it's not the first time we ask for changes, I at least hope so.

For any who opposes any of the just mentioned ideas, please be gentle enough to explain why.

Thanks all!
Deuterium

[Deuterium]

Just as a separate note:
I know there's the Jass section made for Jass systems and codes, but it seems like users prefer uploading them to the Spells section


Also:
I hope you people could post a link to this thread in your signatures to let everyone know about this discussion.


Please:
Don't get greedy or childish and start asking to become a mod or something. That's just stupid. Oh, and also don't name people who deserve to be a mod, that's also just stupid. If that discussion is to happen, there would be a separate thread.


I know:
I know that Anachron has made a common thread to this some time ago, but this deals a different purpose (although both intend to improve the Spells section).

[Reaper2008]

Once more you are right. I see new spells every day, and while some get reviewed, most (usually (v)JASS spells) are left, and soon forgotten.

[Linaze]

The difference between the Jass section and the Spells section is that the Jass section contains scripts and the Spells section contains spells (duh) and systems.

[Deuterium]

Yes I know that Linaze :P but I mean usually systems are only plain scripts (few are the systems that use object editing) yet they are mostly posted in the spells section, usually for testing purposes.

[Paladon]

After reaching over 200 pending spells again, i wonder why noone used the chance which was given with the "purge".

Yes, having active moderators is a must. The repromotion of old veterans is generally not constructive if these veterans avoid doing their job nowadays.
There should be a list of trusted people who may review submitted ressources since the moderators don't seem to be able to handle it alone.
Sub-sections are not necessary in particular. You have the search options.

Good luck with brainstorming.

[Linaze]

In my personal opinion, we should combine the Jass and Spells section into a Code section (a bit like wc3c has), but instead of sub-forums like wc3c has, we'll just have our good old filtering system.

[HINDYhat]

Originally Posted by Deuterium

The moderators should make a list of those trusted reviewers for both GUI and (v)Jass.

The majority of GUI reviewers I've crossed have been full of poo in most of their reviews. Besides, if we really had a list of trusted reviewers, they'd probably already be up for promotion, so the whole reviewing thing is kind of pointless.

Originally Posted by Deuterium

The spell section should have "sub-sections". Something close to how it's done in wc3c.

The way it's organized now is fine. That would just make it feel like we're copying wc3c for the sake of copying. There is no real advantage to organizing it in sub-sections rather than having tags for different submissions.

Originally Posted by Deuterium

External systems (which links to external systems on other sites, 'cause really, most of the used systems don't get uploaded to the hive).

And they don't get uploaded because often the author doesn't want them here (see Vexorian's stuff etc). Shouldn't spells and systems follow the same credit principle as other resources?

Originally Posted by Deuterium

I know there's the Jass section made for Jass systems and codes, but it seems like users prefer uploading them to the Spells section

The systems that are uploaded to the spell section and actually have a decent test map are probably meant for the spell section. The Jass scripts forum is meant for scripts and systems that don't need demo maps, or that are difficult to use without one. Besides, this isn't really a huge problem, is it?

I can't really think of any solution other than trying to hire more motivated moderators, and that isn't saying much. Fiddling with the spell section's layout definitely won't fix anything...

[-JonNny]

I personally do not really care about sections
but sections wouldnt be that bad

In my opinion we need more active mods.
Easily said - not easy to do

but due the spell section looks kinda dead ( ~ 1 approve per week or something) i guss something has to happen
rcruiting more and more spell mods cannot really be the solution due most seem to loose motivation after some month to approve much because they seem to be alone each time

At first reviews stopped due the 1.24 patch and i was told that afterwards, after all bugged spell are removed the approving continues

but nothing happenes even now

[Deuterium]

Originally Posted by Deuterium

Now this isn't an essential, but an advice to make the spell section neater.

As you can see guys, this was only ADVICE :P

Originally Posted by HINDYhat

Besides, if we really had a list of trusted reviewers, they'd probably already be up for promotion, so the whole reviewing thing is kind of pointless.

Not really... mods need to have alot of good traits besides knowing coding...
However, reviewers don't. A reviewer could be a good one just by knowing how to code.

Originally Posted by HINDYhat

The majority of GUI reviewers I've crossed have been full of poo in most of their reviews.

Humm, well, the MAJORITY :P
That's why there should be a list...

Originally Posted by HINDYhat

And they don't get uploaded because often the author doesn't want them here (see Vexorian's stuff etc). Shouldn't spells and systems follow the same credit principle as other resources?

Also this was an additional advice. Linking to the original resource doesn't violate any accreditation.

[HINDYhat]

Originally Posted by Deuterium

However, reviewers don't. A reviewer could be a good on just by knowing how to code.

A reviewer would check a spell to see if it has flaws. If it's flawless, he would put it up for approval.
A moderator would check a spell to see if it has flaws. If it's flawless, he would approve it.
What other responsibilities do spell moderators have?

Originally Posted by Deuterium

Linking to the original resource doesn't violate any accreditation.

Oh, did you mean linking to Wc3c's resource thread for, say, Vexorian's Map Optimizer, as opposed to uploading it here?

[Zack1996]

You speak the truth.
The purge didn't do anything. It just made some spells deleted and re-uploaded again, causing another re-review.

I do agree that active mods are needed, but are lacking. Sometimes, it feels as if some spells should just be rejected straight away. There should probably be some "Vote for Rejection" button that works like Report Post, so the Spell mods can just open the map, know that the spell was crappily done, and reject it.

My idea so far.

[Rmx]

Yes, the spell section needs to be active.

Nothing barely gets approved, we need mods.

I agree with you SEED.

[Deuterium]

@ Hindy:
Well the thing is moderators need to be mature and responsible and smart... to say it in short: a leader.
That's how they differ from reviewers... I mean I've seen some really good coders, but tell them "I don't really like this spell", and you'll see their childish reactions :P

And yes I mean linking to the original and not resource, just a plain link... I'm actually totally against re-uploading here :P

@ Zack:
There already is the mini-mod option where you vote for rejection or approval :P

[Linaze]

A resource moderator mainly needs to know how to properly review something.