About Short Story contests

[Apheraz Lucent]

Hey there. Recent arguments I had with some people made me open this thread. I know that this is repeated time and time again, but I still want to get this going.
The main issue started when I was accused of being biased. I was the only judge in the SSC #7, and my judging was pretty much deciding the whole contest. However, after all the effort I gave myself into, some people are convinced that the winner of the SSC, which would be Dragonson, was not supposed to win.
I'm concerned that this contest has became a pure rat race. I am... kinda offensive against people who vote in the poll, because they do not vote for the story, but the writer. I guess that this could be case in some other contests.
Since this has became a great issue, and flaming judges and other contestants will not yield any good, I suggest that you, and the whole Hive community, help me to find a solution for this... nonsense.

The primary idea was to hide the WIPs and Entries from everyone except the Contest Host or Arena Moderator, who would open the Poll and display Results. The entries would be named by the story's name. That would avoid the black rating, as it's called, but it would also avoid those special and key moments of improving or posting a story. The whole contest would fall, I think.

So... Sorry for the wall of text, but it's needed. Your opinion?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

I think that is a perfectly plausible idea and already suggsted it for ssc8 only to be shot down,for no concrete reason whatsoever. Go figure...

 

[Dynamiczx]

From what i saw, i say i agree to you
Anyway, i think another solution might be to reduce the percentage of the votes in the contest, making the judge rating score more points

 

[Vengeancekael]

We could bring the poll votes count down to 20% and also do what you've suggested, hide the wips from the other users and only the judges and maybe the host could give the user some feedback.
The poll should also probably contain no author names, just the stories. (Which has been done for the voice contest)
But this issue will probably never be solved, if you remove the poll, people will flame the judges even more and will want the community's feedback as well. And if we just use a poll then a lot of people will say that the community members haven't even read the stories.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

That's the problem now, people see a username next to an entry and vote for it because they know or like said person (ok not everyone but the majority!). Polls are fine, I just think people should be forced to read a story.. so to speak, yeah, they still might just randomly vote but I would hope there is a little less incentive to.

 

[Pharaoh_]

That has always been an issue in the Arena. People don't realize that these contests offer virtual prizes and not some life-time opportunities.

I am not fond of anonymous submissions, because this is a community where everything should be available to anyone -there are obviously some boundaries in that-. The issue of random votes or votes based on someone's popularity won't be solved, because whatever system we are going to come up with, it will either ruin the community's participation or will raise issues that were addressed for wc3c, concerning the pretentious professionalism.

I in fact care so much for the public's participation, that I consider sane the results to be the sum of 50% public's quota and 50% of the judge's.

Don't forget, judges are part of the community.

 

[Vengeancekael]

Don't forget, judges are part of the community.

But still picked carefully! (usually <_>)

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Anyway, i think another solution might be to reduce the percentage of the votes in the contest, making the judge rating score more points

We could bring the poll votes count down to 20% and also do what you've suggested, hide the wips from the other users and only the judges and maybe the host could give the user some feedback.

The judges already have the power to give 80% of score, but that's not solving the problem. When two famous people enter the contest, both with good and equally same stories, then it's the "Hive Hero Poll" which decides the winner, even if it should be reverse.

Maybe we can ask the voters to answer a question about the one they rated for's story, to confirm they have red at least that one.

 

[Direfury]

If a judge doesn't like someone, they should have perfectly valid reasons for NOT giving that person a high score. A reason they can't apply to every other contestant, if such a flaw is a recurring element.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I am not talking about Judges who hate someone and intentionally give low score to that person, I am talking about people who thing that a Judge is biased and that he/she gives high scores to persons that he/she likes.

 

[Direfury]

It works both ways. If they have a preference towards a certain artist, they should provide an indepth reason why they're giving this person such a high score. Just aswell, if others have submitted something of near equal quality, there shouldn't be a big difference in scores between them and the judge's favorite.

 

[Adiktuz]

You can never solve it, there would always be people that would think that way... especially fans...

 

[Direfury]

Well like I said, have them be reasonable in their assessments. Have someone look over their judgings incase they are biased in their decisions.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Okay, so what we need now is that someone re-reviews the contest and my judging, to prove that I was not biased? Sounds more trouble over the current one, but I don't mind it as long as the justice comes out.

 

[Direfury]

What we need is a reviewer to check for bias, someone who themselves must be ambivalent towards the participants. Hell, someone that doesn't like any of the contestants.

 

[Traxamillion]

I am not fond of anonymous submissions, because this is a community where everything should be available to anyone -there are obviously some boundaries in that-. The issue of random votes or votes based on someone's popularity won't be solved, because whatever system we are going to come up with, it will either ruin the community's participation or will raise issues that were addressed for wc3c, concerning the pretentious professionalism.

I in fact care so much for the public's participation, that I consider sane the results to be the sum of 50% public's quota and 50% of the judge's.

Don't forget, judges are part of the community.

This.

I haven't joined quite a few of the SSC's in a while because of themes, but a contest should NEVER conclude if there is only one judge. By default the judging will be biased to that one persons preferences let alone personal relationships with contestants.

Easy solution to being biased, have more than one judge. As for random votes, you aren't going to solve that.

EDIT: Also I was reading some of the comments in the last contest results page.

@Apheraz - On a proffessional level you should never judge a contest in which you are in a relationship with a contestant or related to them.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Some people should read and compare the stories, and then my judging, since this is pointless, because people are still accusing me for something I haven't did. If you have red, then you have to right to accuse me of something. Otherwise, please don't. Not fair, and is such a fail.

Anyways, I got an idea. If there is only one judge in the contest, we can decrease the rate of points from 80% to 50%, to provide a fairplay between him/her and the community.

 

[Traxamillion]

Any one who accused you has the right to do so seeing as this is an odd circumstance. Going back to my point about judging with subconscious bias.

Nevertheless we learn from mistakes and now know to change the judging weight and prefer if those in relationships would not judge for said contest.

So now we can move on.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Some people should read and compare the stories, and then my judging, since this is pointless, because people are still accusing me for something I haven't did. If you have red, then you have to right to accuse me of something. Otherwise, please don't. Not fair, and is such a fail.

Anyways, I got an idea. If there is only one judge in the contest, we can decrease the rate of points from 80% to 50%, to provide a fairplay between him/her and the community.

You simply shouldn't put yourself in a compromising position.


If a contest doesn't have enough participants, it means the general community isn't interested.

If a contest does have enough participants, but it doesn't have enough judges, it means that the contest although popular is ignored by the "higher-ups".


What that means for you, is basically if the problem is not your fault in anyway, shape or form, than you shouldn't try and solve it if it compromises your position.


If however you choose to participate and you do know that you are setting yourself up for a lot of incoming flame, than simply take the heat.



------

It's really no ones fault that you are accused of being biased other than your own (for putting yourself in this position willingly), or of the people who agreed that results can be posted when only one person judged the contest.

 

[Traxamillion]

Well said, Edhel.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

...I agree that the circumstances are a little undesirable and that in foresight, Alpheraz probably shouldn't have judged, but to tell her to just sit and take flaming? I'm almost ashamed to be registered on this site right now. Flaming is against the hive's somewhat forgotten (or ignored?) rules so no, she shouldn't have to just 'simply take the heat'.

I'm pretty sure she didn't realise she'd get so much stick for offering to judge when very few (or no?) others did...

This place THRIVES off drama, damn. Just ban competitions all together, it's scarcely worth the effort.

 

[Traxamillion]

His comment of take the flaming doesn't mean "sit there and get called a bitch, cunt noob" he meant it as in you are gonna have to take the criticism and accusations for putting yourself in this position. You being Apheraz.

 

[Edhel-dur]

...I agree that the circumstances are a little undesirable and that in foresight, Alpheraz probably shouldn't have judged, but to tell her to just sit and take flaming? I'm almost ashamed to be registered on this site right now. Flaming is against the hive's somewhat forgotten (or ignored?) rules so no, she shouldn't have to just 'simply take the heat'.

I'm pretty sure she didn't realise she'd get so much stick for offering to judge when very few (or no?) others did...

This place THRIVES off drama, damn. Just ban competitions all together, it's scarcely worth the effort.

First of all "incoming flame... take the heat" was just a play on words.

A lot of people mean well, and they try their best to solve something, but instead of appreciation, they receive criticism. And all of a sudden you have no clue why that is happening.
My earlier post just tries to make the current issue understandable for Apheraz Lucent. She should had just stayed out of it (for her own good).
It's all I'm saying.

 

[Turminator8]

I say I have to agree with Grey 100%, but this is really really sad. These contests are supposed to be fun and encourage a good community. Unfortunately, it seems like they could only find one judge, and now everyone is raging at her for trying to make the best of the situation and continue on with the contest. Not only did she get flamed for being biased, but now you have jerks telling her that not only should she be accused of being biased, but its HER FAULT. Are you fucking serious?
my god... I don't need to say more. This is sad.

 

[Traxamillion]

I say I have to agree with Grey 100%, but this is really really sad. These contests are supposed to be fun and encourage a good community. Unfortunately, it seems like they could only find one judge, and now everyone is raging at her for trying to make the best of the situation and continue on with the contest. Not only did she get flamed for being biased, but now you have jerks telling her that not only should she be accused of being biased, but its HER FAULT. Are you fucking serious?
my god... I don't need to say more. This is sad.

1.No one raged
2.No one flamed
3.When is being biased not the persons fault performing it?

 

[Edhel-dur]

I say I have to agree with Grey 100%, but this is really really sad. These contests are supposed to be fun and encourage a good community. Unfortunately, it seems like they could only find one judge, and now everyone is raging at her for trying to make the best of the situation and continue on with the contest. Not only did she get flamed for being biased, but now you have jerks telling her that not only should she be accused of being biased, but its HER FAULT. Are you fucking serious?
my god... I don't need to say more. This is sad.

As you don't seem to understand my intention, so did the other people on the forums maybe misunderstood the intention of Apheraz.

I didn't say she shouldn't have done it, I didn't say that it was a bad idea.

I think this case clearly shows that people usually tend to cry about a lot of things, and that people not always understand the good intentions. When you know that a community behaves like this, I just think you should consider it twice before trying to solve any kind of issue where all the anger and the drama and the what not is going to be directed only on yourself.

I wanted to ask if I could be one of the judges for this contest when I noticed that no one wanted to be a judge. But than I thought about it, and decided that it's not my place.
If a mod or admin is not interested in promoting a SSC on their own site, than why would I be interested in trying to solve a situation which doesn't want to be solved?
I also didn't like the theme as much, and I am also mostly a no-name here on THW so I'm sure I wasn't going to qualify as a judge.

And a second point, you seem to say that she had a very good intent but she was misunderstood. And yet here now making the same mistake to me the others did to her.
I wrote my post with good intent, to make her understand what's happening so hopefully in the future she should not waste time and nerves on THW SSC Drama. Yet until now 1 understood my message, while 2 didn't.

Let's see how things continue shall we?

 

[Turminator8]

As you don't seem to understand my intention, so did the other people on the forums maybe misunderstood the intention of Apheraz.

I didn't say she shouldn't have done it, I didn't say that it was a bad idea.

I think this case clearly shows that people usually tend to cry about a lot of things, and that people not always understand the good intentions. When you know that a community behaves like this, I just think you should consider it twice before trying to solve any kind of issue where all the anger and the drama and the what not is going to be directed only on yourself.

I wanted to ask if I could be one of the judges for this contest when I noticed that no one wanted to be a judge. But than I thought about it, and decided that it's not my place.
If a mod or admin is not interested in promoting a SSC on their own site, than why would I be interested in trying to solve a situation which doesn't want to be solved?
I also didn't like the theme as much, and I am also mostly a no-name here on THW so I'm sure I wasn't going to qualify as a judge.

And a second point, you seem to say that she had a very good intent but she was misunderstood. And yet here now making the same mistake to me the others did to her.
I wrote my post with good intent, to make her understand what's happening so hopefully in the future she should not waste time and nerves on THW SSC Drama. Yet until now 1 understood my message, while 2 didn't.

Let's see how things continue shall we?

In my opinion, that's a selfish attitude. If everyone thought like that, none of these websites would exist. Perhaps you "meant good", but you're reasoning is extremely self centered.

 

[Edhel-dur]

In my opinion, that's a selfish attitude. If everyone thought like that, none of these websites would exist. Perhaps you "meant good", but you're reasoning is extremely self centered.

Yes, deciding to not walk alone in a den full of wolves who have pups makes me extremely self-centered.

It's just how life works. I've had my share of altruist decisions in my life. They all ended up like this. Not worth to put yourself on the line unless it's for something special. And if you do decide to put yourself on the line for something or someone who aren't necessarily special, or for people who you are not sure that they will understand your intent, than you need to be ready to get disappointed.

Think of Jesus for example "Forgive them Father, for they do not know what they are doing".

 

[HailFireer]

You can't be a judge that is connected to one of the participants and expect of people to not accuse you of being biased. That's how world works.

In sports, in international matches, judges are from some other countries, and there are more of them.

Same should have been done here. And even if 1 of the judges is biased, scores of judges can't be that different in some of the spots. I think that in this case there is how good grammar is. It's impossible that one judge gives 2/10 and other 9/10. Its impossible that they have that different opinion of good grammar.
If all else fails bring in another person to judge em all once more and add that to the score.

It's funny how hive's rules database lacks any guidelines on how to deal with contests with a lack of participants and/or judges.

 

[Phoonix]

The problem with that is very simple.
those who join or or interested in the SSC are a very specific group and very small.
most of them know each other and are closely involved with each other.
telling apheraz to not have picked up the job as a judge is like saying "leave the contest to die." nobody but that specif is interested in it, simple as that.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I haven't expected this amount of answers for my call for help. I am flattered, thanks.

Well, to not quote everyone and answer everything sentence by sentence, here's my side of the story:

My side of the Story

This amount of Drama should have been used to write those stories, rather than some plain things I have red (Sorry if I offended anyone). To be honest, the short story contests actually have a large recall of users that want to participate, but the themes are repelling them away. Here, I wanted to participate in this contest (and try to win it), but the theme was just... Too classy and non-inflammable with my ideas. I passed it away and asked for judging. Host of the contest and arena mods took me a week of my patience until they decided I can judge. The contest was over, and I waited the new arena mod to come before the results were going to be released. Everything was fine, the results delivered, poll closed and Pharaoh_ was about to show the results. Drake won with his story. The moment I saw his name in golden color, I has both smiled and frowned. I smiled because I knew how much it would mean to him, but I also knew how much attention this could draw: Judge's bf wins the contest.

Again this sentence. But I don't ask you this time, I beg you to try to seek am I right before trying to make me a bad person and a "broken toy".

I wish that TWIF comes, since he also wanted me to open this thread, and Drake, too, to hear his opinion.

I already said to TWIF that if this pressure keeps falling on me, I will probably quit on judging any contests in future. Such an experience with this, is what I never tasted before on my mind. And it's not nice...

Edit: Oh, and Edhel-dur - you said that I should never get in this situation when I have my bf on the entries' list. That would mean I could never judge this contest again, or any other Drake would enter. That was not what I wanted, and it's not my fault that someone thinks that I am making another mistake simply by opening this thread.

If you want it, I will ask people who have not a single line of connection with Drake and TWIF to judge it, and replace my position of judging (Admins or Mods, in first place).

 

[HailFireer]

People will always complain. If there were no judges they would have complained about that. If drake was second, they would have said that you didn't wanna give him first place cuz it would be too obvious. That's how people work.

Problem is contests are very disorganized. I judged once, last smiley contest. A number of people applied to judge, including me. I thought they were gonna say who was chosen to judge, but they didn't, and a month later I got a pm from Py "How's the judging going?"... I was WTF??

Judges are usually chosen at the start, or not at all. If they are chosen at the start of the contest, they cant be sure if they are gonna have enough free time in a month. It's just to long of a time period to plan.

It would be best if judges were chosen during the last week of contest, and notifications uses. Say "Judges needed for this contest, please apply" and choose most qualified ones for the job (if modeling or texturing) or someone with credibility (for music or smiley).

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

...and a month later I got a pm from Py "How's the judging going?"... I was WTF??

I got that too, twice.

Good idea, though.
What also frustrates me is that the Hosts of the contests should update their first posts frequently with new information, such as WIPs, final submissions, and judges. It freaks me out when I need to scavenge through 25 pages of useless spam in order to collect all WIPs and entries. I mean, if you are accepted, you should probably get a VM or PM about that.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

HAHAHAHHA It's TWIF, he pitches a theme, goes afk for a month then comes back on the eve of a deadline with a submission. No disrepect. I love the guy, but it's just his way

I can't see him keeping the thread updated!

 

[HailFireer]

It's disorganized. And in order for it to get organized, there should be a mod dedicated to it, he is the one who controls first post and updates notifications. But, people would find something to complain about that too. Probably about how hes to strict and enforces rules to much, an opposite of now.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Notifications as in those things at the top? Only an administrator can do that.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Edit: Oh, and Edhel-dur - you said that I should never get in this situation when I have my bf on the entries' list. That would mean I could never judge this contest again, or any other Drake would enter. That was not what I wanted

Well dear we cannot have everything in life can we? Some things we just have to deal with them if we want to keep them clean and with less drama.

I'm not telling you what you should do. I'm just saying that from now on it will be incredibly obvious that you will be accused of being biased.

I've read that conversation between you and TWIF in hidden tags, and although he expressed very poorly, he is right. No matter how hard you try, it's impossible to not be biased when you need to judge/work on someone who is as close to you as your bf/husband/child/sister, etc.

That's why surgeons are not allowed to make an operation on people who are close to them.

And to tell you the truth, I've never a met any girl/woman who wasn't biased against or in favor of her consort.


But putting that out of the way, you now know in what you are dwelling. So next time you can't get angry because people accuse you of being biased towards your bf or not.

At the end of the day...
haters gonna hate,
internet contests are internet contests,
stupid crowd will be stupid crowd,
trolls will be trolls,

and your anger will be... real

 

[Traxamillion]

I already said to TWIF that if this pressure keeps falling on me, I will probably quit on judging any contests in future. Such an experience with this, is what I never tasted before on my mind. And it's not nice...

Enough with the pity party we get it, you didn't mean for it and that's fine. You made the thread with the knowledge that you would receive disgruntled testimonies, so I'm not sure why you are complaining about that aspect. All we are doing is expressing why it was a bad idea and to try not to have it be repeated in future contests. You aren't a bad person and it doesn't mean you can't judge ever again but really you shouldn't judge any more SSC's with your BF as a contestant. If that means never being able to join another SSC for judging than so be it. The ones hes not in you can judge and the one he IS in you can make an entry as well.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Didn't read the whole thing, but somebody linked this in chat and I felt like contributing.

First of all - to prevent judges taking the blame, there should be more than one judge. It really is that simple. There will almost always be complaining if there's only one judge, especially if that judge is new, or relatively new, to judging, to the site or to the field of the contest. (Not implying anyone here are, as I don't pay attention to the Short Story contests.)

As for public voting. It's never going to be perfect, and I honestly think hidden entries is somewhat counter-productive. I mean, sure, it is more like a real contest, and is more fair, but THW is not some dead serious writing community. The contests are for fun and improvement. Without feedback during the creation, the entries will generally be poorer and the contestants will learn less than they would if they got feedback along the way as well as from the judges in the end.

You can't always see what someone is doing wrong (or needs to improve, rather) from looking at the final result.