Some weird mechanics

[Almia]

Hey there

Idk if this is the right thread.

This is a list of "mechanics" that happen in some interactions, whether by code or not:

1) Hiding a unit also "pauses" the unit (not sure with this, tho I have seen one in Dota. It pauses the buff timer yet the buff still works. This still needs some test)

2) Moving a unit that is channeling a certain spell e.g. Star Storm. What happens is that the unit is moved, yet the spell isn't. (So if Star Storm was cast in the middle of the map and you move the unit on the corner of the map, the Star Storm remains on the middle). Also, channeling spells with cast range won't be cancelled if it is out of range(when the unit is moved).

3) Critical Strike doesn't miss on targets, even if it has Evasion (needs some test)

4) Autocasting Orb-effect spells(e.g. Black Arrow) doesn't work on ethereal units, yet it works if it is manually cast. (Note: only some of this spells work on ethereal)

5) Pausing a unit while in a Blade Storm(e.g. Blademaster in Blade storm) will cause the Blade Storm effect not to work.

6) Attributes can go below 0.

7) Blink,Wind Walk, Invisbility and Morphs can disjoint missiles (that maybe the auto-attack or the spell)
Morphing abilities is somewhat special, specially with stuns. If a morphing unit receives a Storm bolt while morphing, the damage isn't received. The buff still received yet the unit is not stunned.(It can walk, but the buff is received)

8) On multiplayers, some special effects remains even if destroyed minutes passed.

For example, a special effect was created on the middle of the map and is destroyed.
Player A saw it, thus special effect plays.
Player B didn't saw it(fogged, camera didn't reveal it), no special effect played.
Minutes passed, Player B sees the location. Special Effect plays.

9) You can redirect enemy tower aggro, if it is a computer. This can be done by attacking an ally. (Needs some test)

10) Fan of Knives hits ethereal units, yet it doesn't deal damage.

11) Double-clicking some items that requires target will sometimes try to target the unit who used it or cast to the point towards your starting point.

12) Casting Mirror image on tight locations will cause it to launch the projectile on it's direction and will only finish if the current location is pathable if the location's surface z is equal to that on the original point. (sorry, can't explain it better)

13) Critical Strike doesn't work while in Wind Walk

14) Morphs break invisibility

15) Shift-casting (queueing order) Wind Walk while channeling an ability won't cancel the channeling.

16) Using Mirror Image while morphed will sometimes break the morph.

(will add more soon)


Note: I don't know if some of the list are known to everybody.

Opinions, proofs are welcome.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Hey there

Idk if this is the right thread.

This is a list of "mechanics" that happen in some interactions, whether by code or not:

1) Hiding a unit also "pauses" the unit (not sure with this, tho I have seen one in Dota. It pauses the buff timer yet the buff still works. This still needs some test)

false, hidden unit acts and work like normal. icefrog's dota pauses them for sure, but not proper dota (my / dota2)

2) Moving a unit that is channeling a certain spell e.g. Star Storm. What happens is that the unit is moved, yet the spell isn't. (So if Star Storm was cast in the middle of the map and you move the unit on the corner of the map, the Star Storm remains on the middle). Also, channeling spells with cast range won't be cancelled if it is out of range(when the unit is moved).

IDK what you talking about. Life drain works just fine, and following or not abilities depends on the way they are coded. its not any kind of rule.

3) Critical Strike doesn't miss on targets, even if it has Evasion (needs some test)

it's ability setting

4) Autocasting Orb-effect spells(e.g. Black Arrow) doesn't work on ethereal units, yet it works if it is manually cast. (Note: only some of this spells work on ethereal)

physical projectiles cannot hit ethereal units, use magic attack type to do so

5) Pausing a unit while in a Blade Storm(e.g. Blademaster in Blade storm) will cause the Blade Storm effect not to work.

yes, because pausing is a technical stuff and shouldn't be used in any way by maps. stuns or sleeps are way to go.

6) Attributes can go below 0.

how is that even bug? use it to reduce unit's attributes for relevant amount

7) Blink,Wind Walk, Invisbility and Morphs can disjoint missiles (that maybe the auto-attack or the spell)

hardcoded and completely fine. also morphs cannot disjoint missiles

Morphing abilities is somewhat special, specially with stuns. If a morphing unit receives a Storm bolt while morphing, the damage isn't received. The buff still received yet the unit is not stunned.(It can walk, but the buff is received)

due to the nature of morphs they causes 'stunned' flag to be ignored, this bug won't be fixed as far as I can say, since it's way too deep/

8) On multiplayers, some special effects remains even if destroyed minutes passed.

bugs of local PCs which causes every object to play it's death animation even if it doesn't exists anymore. confirm a bug here

9) You can redirect enemy tower aggro, if it is a computer. This can be done by attacking an ally. (Needs some test)

AI issues isn't really big deal, and those mechanic comes to dota's basics. since you aren't attack your enemy, and theres another attacker around, your priority decreased. seems completely fine for me.

10) Fan of Knives hits ethereal units, yet it doesn't deal damage.

they deals enhanced damage (iirc), not a bug, but a strange feature

11) Double-clicking some items that requires target will sometimes try to target the unit who used it or cast to the point towards your starting point.

what? double click is ordering anything to cast onto item. and item is always located at the point where you picked it up. it's invisible and cannot be touched anyhow.

12) Casting Mirror image on tight locations will cause it to launch the projectile on it's direction and will only finish if the current location is pathable if the location's surface z is equal to that on the original point. (sorry, can't explain it better)

not Z, but TerrainHeight instead. isn't really a bug, but a setting to chose AoE would be nice

13) Critical Strike doesn't work while in Wind Walk

attack's memory structure can hold only limited amount of flags, and thats one of them. blizz won't touch wc3's deep mechanics

14) Morphs break invisibility

confirm, even if triggered morph. basically game replace the unit, loosing it's special states like invisibility

15) Shift-casting (queueing order) Wind Walk while channeling an ability won't cancel the channeling.

there are more non-queueble skills, cannot be changed to mainain consistancy with oldr maps.

16) Using Mirror Image while morphed will sometimes break the morph.

applies for Metamorphosis only. IDK reasons behind that. Chemical rage doesn't suffer of such issue. same as prev one

 

[Almia]

I am not even pointing out that all of them are bugs

thanks for some clarification btw.

I'm still finding some of these.

Blizzard really is a weird game company 14 years ago :/

 

[Ezekiel12]

In this I agree with DracoL1ch, not much on the list can be considered to be a bug, except maybe
-The morphing stun issue
-Visual problems with special effects and powerups

The are hundreds more such weird little things in wc3. Fixing all those means redesigning wc3. That breaks maps, in some cases the melee meta, means much work and the end product is not much better than what we currently have.

And certainly not as interesting : )..

 

[Almia]

In this I agree with DracoL1ch, not much on the list can be considered to be a bug, except maybe
-The morphing stun issue
-Visual problems with special effects and powerups

The are hundreds more such weird little things in wc3. Fixing all those means redesigning wc3. That breaks maps, in some cases the melee meta, means much work and the end product is not much better than what we currently have.

And certainly not as interesting : )..

Again:

I am not even pointing out that all of them are bugs

I'm just stating some things that can be abused, and thus to be considered by some map makers as mechanics and tricks to their maps (Which in this case, Dota)

 

[Xonok]

morphs cannot disjoint missiles

They can, at least in the case of abilities. Have you never noticed how pro players dodge death coils with the morph on talons? Might be limited to ranged->melee->ranged morphs though, considering they mess with what you are targeted as.

 

[Dr Super Good]

1) Hiding a unit also "pauses" the unit (not sure with this, tho I have seen one in Dota. It pauses the buff timer yet the buff still works. This still needs some test)

Hiding units does not pause them. Instead it removes units from various systems of Warcraft III meaning that they no longer function as normal units. For example the unit will no longer appear in area searches so cannot be found as a target.

2) Moving a unit that is channeling a certain spell e.g. Star Storm. What happens is that the unit is moved, yet the spell isn't. (So if Star Storm was cast in the middle of the map and you move the unit on the corner of the map, the Star Storm remains on the middle). Also, channeling spells with cast range won't be cancelled if it is out of range(when the unit is moved).

What is "Star Storm"?

4) Autocasting Orb-effect spells(e.g. Black Arrow) doesn't work on ethereal units, yet it works if it is manually cast. (Note: only some of this spells work on ethereal)

Arrows themselves have very bad mechanics. Although they are a castable ability, the cast ability is completely different from the auto attack form. Some times manually casting arrows can cause the caster to enter a bugged animation state where the animations appear to be speeded up considerably.

yes, because pausing is a technical stuff and shouldn't be used in any way by maps. stuns or sleeps are way to go.

Pausing is very useful in some situations, such as for cinematics. If the units are not paused then bad things could happen while the player is watching.

6) Attributes can go below 0.

Attributes are also fractional (how hero levels work). And if I recall they even provide stats in a fractional way.

8) On multiplayers, some special effects remains even if destroyed minutes passed.

Special effects are only visually removed after their last animation finishes. Since animations do not play unless in view the effect can persist in some states a considerable time until the player moves his screen nearby. After the animation finishes it should be removed.

9) You can redirect enemy tower aggro, if it is a computer. This can be done by attacking an ally. (Needs some test)

AI combat priorities. They will focus units attacking them if melee. If ranged they will try to focus the combat unit with lowest current health. Armor types or some form of bias is factored in so units generally prioritize units over buildings. The combat AI works for most reasonable balance situations, it only falls apart in TD and with extreme balance situations.

13) Critical Strike doesn't work while in Wind Walk

Wind Walk counts as a critical hit. Only 1 critical hit can apply per attack. This interaction is likely intentional as otherwise the Blade Master would be absolutely broken to fight as a Critical Strike on Wind Walk could hit for several hundred damage easily.

16) Using Mirror Image while morphed will sometimes break the morph.

Mirror Image dispels most buffs on caster when used. Some morphs likely follow buff mechanics so that if the buff is removed the morph is lost.

 

[DracoL1ch]

They can, at least in the case of abilities. Have you never noticed how pro players dodge death coils with the morph on talons? Might be limited to ranged->melee->ranged morphs though, considering they mess with what you are targeted as.

that's not dodge either, that is target being invalid on projectile arrival

 

[Xonok]

It's not. Death Coil and Storm Bolt allow targeting both air and ground.

 

[Almia]

What is "Star Storm"?

Starfall, sorry.

Okay there is another one:

Some spell meant to target units are hardcoded to do it that way. If you allow them to cast to destructables, they don't, actually :V

 

[Dr Super Good]

Some spell meant to target units are hardcoded to do it that way. If you allow them to cast to destructables, they don't, actually :V

That is WC3's illogical mechanics. Just like how Holy Light and Death Bolt have fixed targets and behaviours. If you want actual customization use SC2 where target filters are all evaluated the same logical way.