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Who I am.

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Almost none of you have any idea of who NFWar is. How his life looks like? What kind of person he is? I am here to correct your wrong thoughts.

Lets start from the moment when I came to live in Greece (from Ukraine) with my mother. I was 14 years old (lived for 10 years here, so I am 24). Went to school here without knowing language (even english was under acceptable level to communicate with people) after 2 months of arrival. How that turned out, huh? Kids aproached me with a good will, but is a lie. Sometimes they made fun of me, sometimes they acted mean to me. At the end, I felt like a lesser person among others and from hearty child, I was converted into a silent type.

High school. Anxiety meter is tingling, trying to stay cool. Almost passed out during priest's pray (yes, first day of HS they have a priest to pray there and wish us luck). Emberasing, but not really. Inhaling incense smoke caused this. 3 years passed, had a crush, friendzoned, fell into depression. At least during those 3 years I felt like one of members of society and not something less. Held Greek flag on parade 2 times. Something to be proud of (only high score students get to carry one, and as immigrant I thought it was impossible).

Begining of Greek crisis! fun part! I am going to a university which offer you knowledge for money. Education I could get for free was outside island I live on and my mother could not afford this. But wait, payment for university is double for immigrants! That is fare! So, most of my mothers income went on my education as ... as.. Building plan designer in computer? Whatever the name is, I was making building plans in computer (Autocad name of software). After 2 years I went to search for a job and crisis effected everything. I could not find a job as digital artist. All this island need is posters, posibilities of digital artist here are 0 to succeed. Even then I was getting same answer from architect office just like from digital art one: We ahve no job with crisis and little we have we can do without extra workers. So 2 years of expensive education (double than greeks, dont forget it) were for nothing. Wasted time. More depression plus negativity, just what I needed.

Aunt offered to my mother to open a shop with clothing or place with food. She chose food. Tough decision, very desperate. Aunt gave us money, we scrapped what we could and made a shop. A tiny place, very expencive rent (because of greedy ownders and my mother was desperate, so she agreed). Time goes by, she is stressed as fuck, afraid. Seeking backup from a son who is swiming in negativity. So I made her even more desperate and afraid. Time passing, we are not doing well. At the end we cant pay for rent, apartment rent, bills, anything. Fun times. We are forced to abandon everything. Her tiny dream went a failure, I end up not going out of apartment at all. I lost track of time, it didnt matter if it is morning or night. Wake up, sit at computer, eat, sleep again.

We move to another apartment, very cheap basement. Now, take stuff from out food shop, old apartment and stick it in a palce 2 times smaller than old apartment. Yes, it became a storage/garbage dump. I was offered a tough job at summer on a construction site. Had to do it, no options. Then I hear that education at place I was at is free. Free. After spending so much money on nothing, it was free. Fun. I went there as software designer or something.

New apartment had no internet. We tried to bring it there but provider company service was incredibly bad. They sent us bills without installing a shit, from a moment contract was made. I had no internet for a year. So, a person who goes out once a month from a basement, gets internet cut. It was anoying to a point of rage. I was taking my mothers incredibly slow crappy laptop to a bar nearbym where her friend was working and they allowed me to use their electricity, since laptops battery is shit (10-15 minutes). What a good people. I managed somehow to meet a girl there and we had distant relationship. Earthquake happen one good day. 6 fucking Richter. Buildings got cracks, shops and supermarkets got messed. Everything stoped. Including internet connection instalation. Fun.

My mother is informing me that my papers expiring and she has no money to renew them (every year you must renew papers as immigrant and it costs about half of monthly income from average pay). We managed to get some money for that matter with my job, but wait there is more. Turns out, after 22 years old as immigrant, you MUST have working days. It is like ensurance pay to goverment from your employer. Not doing so is not legal and employers usually dont want to pay to goverment. So they refuse paying to goverment, you dont get working days even if you work, which I was doing. They also offer to remove those money from your pay, so YOU will be paying to goverment as you work. Back to paper renewal. So I worked without making my employer pay to goverment, because I ahd no clue that I will need working days. Office for immigrants told us I dont need any, but they were wrong. Fun. I am illegal now.

So, I am more depressed, more negative and less sane. If there was an oportunity to get drunk or high, I was surely taking it. Turns out finding a job as illegal immigrant and get Working Days is impossible. They ask you to have working days already, which is not logical. So here we are, root of my current state. I am an illegal imigrant in Greece.

One day, I was walking to a small job I did every saturday morning. I was cleaning a place where cars supose to be fixed. Police stoped me and took me in JAIL for 3 days. I told them full truth. My papers expired, I have no real job and I live here for 8 years. They took me in for 3 days. My mother was away from island to work in some restaurant for a week. I managed to call her, so she left everything and came back home, but was unable to visit me, since she had her papers in progress, but illegal as well. Police dont care that papers are in progress btw, they take you in anyways. So, depressed, demoralised, even less sane, angry, desperate, I spend as much time as I can by sleeping with cockroaches that appear every time after we eat once a day (I was first, they got about 3 more guys during 2 days). Food was great though, or maybe I thought so, because it was the best thing in that place. The only thing that kept me from diving deeper into negativity, is thoughts of that girl I met.

After I am out, first thing I did is informing boss in car service shop whatever, that I was in prison. Came home on foot, dirty, tired and with headache 1 day before christmass. That is it, I have developed a fobia to get cought by cops! Returned to spending my time in that bar and shitty laptop, talking to that girl. Another earthquake happens! yay! I really needed another delay for internet connection! 6 Richter again. I started spending my time at friend's place. As I was going to him, a cop car stoped next to me. My heart stoped for a moment, but not my movement. I had no reaction on face, I just kept walking. He just parked there.. and I thought I will be sent to Ukraine which has war, without my computer, which is the only dear thing I have. There I most likely will have to surve in military and get shot or study many years while doing shitty jobs or even nothing. It is not easy adapting to a new society and fact that I lived there as a kid, doesnt make this easy.

This was just a begining of phobia I have developed. When I was at my friend's place, girl I was talking to already was not talking to me, comleat ignorance of anything I typed. She acted rude after second earthquake for sudden, I knew it was the end. So, after earthquake alerts stoped, I finally got internet. Girl told me it is over after few days past Valentines Day and main reason was "you are anoying". That struck worse than it should, making my sanity drop lower and making my self esteem to be negative. Not being brave enough to say it to my ears, all of that was through chat, just like those phone break up messeges. Fun.

For two years I isolated myself from the outside as much as I could, telling myself how pathetic I am, lookign into my past, how unlucky and miserble I am. Constantly telling myself that I have acomplished nothing serious, that nobody needs me and I am pathetic loser, I started hurting myself and acting more negative than ever. Point reached the moment when I was anoying with my negativy and disgusting. I started isolating myself from talking to people on internet, ending up lonely. Fighting negativity is not easy. It seems like it, but it triggers so quick with reasons that are hilariously stupid. One thing leads to another and one negative tiny thought can bring heavier one up to my mind, like a chain reaction.

Right now, I found a way out of negativity, corrupted selfesteem, thoughts of hurting myself. That is my story. Illegal immigrant stuck at computer desktop, unable to do anything to solve my real problems, isolated. Even if rest of my life will be like this, it will not be the worst.
 
Level 25
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A short question before I go to work:
What is needed to became a citizen, if you live in the country for more than 10 years?

And yeah, negativity/depression sucks. I've been close to it and I never want to go there again.
 
Level 18
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I am so sorry to hear what situation you are a currently. I would like to help you in any way I could, but I can't unfortunately.
Know that I hope that all your troubles will come to an end. You are experiencing what you are experiencing with reason.

Also another thing, I know it is impossibly hard in your situation, but you gotta keep hoping for a positive outlook. Don't ever fall into depression, tryto think as negatively as you can, because what you think, will come into your life.

Best of luck, mate. :)
 

Ash

Ash

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Sounds like a really tough situation to be in, thank you for sharing it with us. Some of my fdiends are from Ukraine, they mentioned it's both a pretty and pretty fucked up place.

How did you find your way out of the negativity? I'm really happy you have.
 
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I knew a guy who were from Ukraine. He worked in Spain (fixing cars) for couple of years until he came to Finland. Here he did the same job for couple of years but he never was happy and didn't want to learn finnish. He even had a girlfriend who was beautiful (my friend) and so on but even that didn't gave him motivation to live in here and learn our language.

I just heard couple of days ago that he moved back to Ukraine. I was told that only in his own country he would really be happy. I wonder how he'll survive there.

I believe being happy is way more important than have money. But of course you must have enough money to live...

EDIT: And here's my advice to you.

"Humans should talk to each other even once a day or otherwise they become dark and humorless. Speaking gives us bonds and makes us feel we're alive. That is just who we are. Try to cheer up before it is too late."
 
Level 25
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The best advice I can give you is to do physical work. Get away from your PC as much as possible. Go find a job stacking boxes or something. Considering the economy you'll probably have to do it for free, but even then it might be good for you: physical work takes your mind off things, the exertions release chemicals in your brain that make you happy. Work hard enough during the day to make yourself tired enough to sleep well at night, and you'll spend less time lying in bed having depressive thoughts.

I recommend work over something like gym because the biggest problem is motivation. Exercise for the sake of exercise takes a tremendous amount of will, and nothing is keeping you there. Exercise through work, on the other hand, the hardest part is just getting out of the house. Once you're at the job you can switch to autopilot.

You've probably been told this so much that it's just noise to you, but I'll repeat it anyway: stay away from drugs, especially alcohol. Work by week, drunk by weekend is a vicious cycle that you cannot get out of. You become a slave to it, and it only ever provides temporary relief from your issues.


I just heard couple of days ago that he moved back to Ukraine. I was told that only in his own country he would really be happy. I wonder how he'll survive there.

According to the numbers, the war in Ukraine isn't anywhere near as deadly as the news portrays it. Nearly 7000 killed in the course of 15 months. This represents about 1% of the country's death rate, so unless he's moving into the front line itself he'll be fine.
 
"The best advice I can give you is to do physical work"
Worse advice ever. I got cought by going to work. My mother cant be my taxi as she is working very often. I forgot to mention she came back home before several days from first earthquake and had plastic tube settign in her hand. She crashed her car, slept from exaustion, ended up in hospital. She was unable to work for sever weeks, because she had no car to take her places. I bought her new car (2k euros second hand small jeep) with money I made on interwebs. Telling me to go out is useless.
 
Level 21
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Oh what a sad story :(
When I thought my life was terrible your story let me have second thoughts. Well, good luck with life. It's tough, sometimes merciless, but hopefully things will improve :thumbs_up: Never lose optimism and stop thinking about what brings negativity to your life, that's my motto that lets me carry on with my *cough* bad life.

Off-topic: I've never seen a user whose number of posts is equal to the rep! Congratz for such an achievement (ok, it's not an achievement in reality but I consider it as such)
 

Zwiebelchen

Hosted Project GR
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Guys, the TO suffers from depression. "Cheer up mate!" is not gonna do it. He needs to see a doctor about this. Depression is a metabolic desease and needs professional medication, not comforting talk.

A close friend of mine suffered from depression aswell. It was a long battle. Took almost 2 years of medication and therapy for her to get out, but eventually, she made it. Granted her situation was not nearly as dire as yours, but it's a start. Doctors will not report you to the police due to medical confidentiality, so have no worries going there, seeking for help. Start a therapy. Depression should be treated, not ignored.
 

Ash

Ash

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Guys, the TO suffers from depression. "Cheer up mate!" is not gonna do it. He needs to see a doctor about this. Depression is a metabolic desease and needs professional medication, not comforting talk.

Actually, depression is many different things. We don't really know what causes biological depression, but it can also be social in origin too. One thing I can say is that others being supportive -- so long as the support that's being given is not condescending or patronising -- is always useful. Even knowing you're not alone in the world is a great help.

A close friend of mine suffered from depression aswell. It was a long battle. Took almost 2 years of medication and therapy for her to get out, but eventually, she made it. Granted her situation was not nearly as dire as yours, but it's a start. Doctors will not report you to the police due to medical confidentiality, so have no worries going there, seeking for help. Start a therapy. Depression should be treated, not ignored.

Unfortunately doctors won't see you unless you're registered with a practice, and when an illegal turns up seeking help the secretaries aren't bound by patient-practitioner confidentiality.
 
I went to a doctor a while ago, who is not psychologist, but he kind of digs into it. Blood test shown to him that my white blood cells are overwhelming red. Results said somehting about mid danger of my blood going "white". Doc says I have alergic reaction on something that causes my brain liquids to be messed up. It causes lots and lots of random red spots on my skin. Too little liquid or too much, liquids that miss somehting. That may explain constant tinnitus. I took some medicine for that matter and nothing helped. Most likely because my day and night times are messed up and I sleep when I am tired and not when clock tells me to, messing up medicine time usage.
 

Zwiebelchen

Hosted Project GR
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Actually, depression is many different things. We don't really know what causes biological depression
And that's exactly why you need it examined by a professional.

but it can also be social in origin too. One thing I can say is that others being supportive -- so long as the support that's being given is not condescending or patronising -- is always useful. Even knowing you're not alone in the world is a great help.
Which, again, is why you need it examined. A psychologist can not only provide you with the required medication, but can also establish contact with therapy groups.

Unfortunately doctors won't see you unless you're registered with a practice, and when an illegal turns up seeking help the secretaries aren't bound by patient-practitioner confidentiality.
Depends on the country you live in. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the laws in greece are, but considering greece is part of the EU, I don't think it will be much different from where I live in. And here, doctors can not refuse patients with acute deseases, no matter if they have insurance or not. This is basicly what the hippocratic oath is about.
 

Ash

Ash

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And that's exactly why you need it examined by a professional. Which, again, is why you need it examined. A psychologist can not only provide you with the required medication, but can also establish contact with therapy groups.

I don't disagree, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the friendly support people are providing here (with the exception of one or two people) on top of that, and I don't think anything you're saying refutes that either. ^^

Depends on the country you live in. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the laws in greece are, but considering greece is part of the EU, I don't think it will be much different from where I live in. And here, doctors can not refuse patients with acute deseases, no matter if they have insurance or not. This is basicly what the hippocratic oath is about.

I wish the UK was like that! I've had foreign friends have to jump through hoops to get any form of help, unfortunately due in large to the massive, negative right-wing bias that we have at the moment.
 

Zwiebelchen

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I don't disagree, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the friendly support people are providing here (with the exception of one or two people) on top of that, and I don't think anything you're saying refutes that either. ^^
True. Maybe it's just my personal hatred for the usual phrases of comfort... (fortunately, the following prime examples didn't happen here... so I guess you're right)
http://www.familyshare.com/growth/20-things-depressed-people-dont-want-to-hear
... minus the religion stuff.

I wish the UK was like that! I've had foreign friends have to jump through hoops to get any form of help, unfortunately due in large to the massive, negative right-wing bias that we have at the moment.
Well, I'm pretty sure the hippocratic oath exists in the UK aswell... it's just that some doctors don't give a shit about anything but their purse.
 

Rui

Rui

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P.S. — Thanks every Hiver for no stupid «so what is this thread about» comments.

We greet so many people, if only we had a glimpse of their story. Man, that's a load of bad luck there. You must think the world is against you right now. It sure seems to be. I hope your luck changes for the best! And don't make your happiness depend on girls, it isn't worth it.

Any reason why your mother picked Greece out of so many countries? Isn't moving an option?
 
Level 11
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I feel for ya man.
I honestly believe that you have serious talent in the world of digital art and you should use that talent.

Just a thought on what you could try to get out of some of your problems:
http://www.gofundme.com/stories/wel..._atconq_sfr4&gclid=CKnDvoSqkMcCFdgQgQodk3IDTg

Basically, you can tell your story and show people your art, make the case that you need the funds to go somewhere else in this large world to make a new living and that you're trying to find somewhere to use those talents- who knows what you could aspire to be. It's worth a shot anyways.
 
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Damn. That is a lot of bad luck. I'm sure nothing I'll say will make it any better, but I will say that I'm really sorry that life has been so hard for you. Nobody should have to live like that. I genuinely hope that things will get better for both you and your mom.
With your legal issues and all, is it impossible for you to freely move between Schengen countries? If at all possible it might be worth considering moving to a country that's a bit better off such as Germany or Denmark. I know it takes money and all, and it's easier said than done. But it might make sense to at least look into it.

I can't even imagine being in your shoes but from what I hear (my cousin currently suffers from clinical depression and my older sister has suffered from it due to schizophrenia) it really is helpful to keep yourself occupied. Doing some exercise etc helps keep your mind off things. Also eating healthy and staying away from drugs and alcohol is very important for your mental health.
Having a pet might also help by making you feel connected, but again this costs money.

If at all possible you should try getting some professional help like Zwiebelchen says, as clinical depression is a pretty serious disease. There is medication that can help you.

Again all this advice is probably useless to you but I thought I'd say it anyway. If there is one thing I really hope you'll listen to it's this: you are not a loser. None of this is your fault. You have been dealt an extremely tough hand and you are doing everything you can with it. I admire this. So whatever you do please don't blame yourself for your bad luck.

Guys, the TO suffers from depression. "Cheer up mate!" is not gonna do it. He needs to see a doctor about this. Depression is a metabolic desease and needs professional medication, not comforting talk.

A close friend of mine suffered from depression aswell. It was a long battle. Took almost 2 years of medication and therapy for her to get out, but eventually, she made it. Granted her situation was not nearly as dire as yours, but it's a start. Doctors will not report you to the police due to medical confidentiality, so have no worries going there, seeking for help. Start a therapy. Depression should be treated, not ignored.

Agreed. Problem is that if he's technically there illegally he probably doesn't have proper insurance. I'm not sure that clinical depression is considered "acute" enough to be treated without insurance.
 
Level 30
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Hang in there man! You are very talented. The situation in Greece is atrocious, and the way they treat their immigrants is apparently even worse. I hope the best for you and your family.

I can totally understand how you grew up feeling like an outcast in Greece. I just want you to know that no matter how alienated you feel from this fucked up society, that you are a great, generous person with a big gift in graphic design. There is nothing you did wrong. There was no way of foreseeing this situation. There is just you and the system, and the system failed you. Here on THW, you are one of us. And that might not pay your bills, give you back your visa or your education, but at least you are always welcome here.

Words cannot unscrew you and repair the damage done. However;
Musicians are often looking for logos, artworks, album covers, etc... I could try to hook you up with friends in the electronic music scene if I see the opportunity. Maybe you could do artworks for them. Would a commission like that interest you?
 

Zwiebelchen

Hosted Project GR
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You are very talented.
Yeah that's something I think everyone can agree on. I just discovered his art thread and man, he definitely has a gift!

@NFWar:
Btw, what do you take for a single wallpaper-esque full color artwork of game characters (in the typical "concept art" style)? Since Greece is part of the EU, money transactions are a breeze, so I probably have a commission job for you.
 
Comissions are good and stuff, but most likely will not be able to accept any duo to ways of transaction. I dont think we should discuss comissions and payments here. PM's are the way to do it. As far as I remember, it is one of Hive Workshop rules.

I have done some work for a board game a month or two ago. Cant get paid, since I forgot password and security questions for my paypal account which is not linked to any bank. Which means I worked for free (not really).
 
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