The free will discussion thread

[Nuclear]

Do you believe in free will? Why/why not?

 

[Chaosy]

Not really. I feel like the life is laid out for you by society. You can 'control' it to an extent, but I'd not call it free will. You can choose which job you will take, but you will take one. Otherwise you wont survive (ok close enough anyway)

 

[Nuclear]

Of course we're all influenced by external factors, but what I meant was that do we have any self governance, or is everything predetermined. I.e. are we all just following chemical reactions in our brain that were determined at the moment of big bang etc.

 

[edo494]

determinated chemical behaviour does not necessarily need to come from the big bang.

I believe in free will, and I dont believe in destiny "set in stone". In my opinion, all people choose their own destiny throughout their lifes, depending on what they do etc etc.

Even tho you could say the brain is basically a chemistry laboratory, people have free choice(you can chose to scratch or not to scratch your butt right now as you read this).

Thats the same like normal computers. They have a finite number of states, but the number of states, and complexness of their architectures makes them effectivelly nondeterministic. If you add the fact that you have nondeterministic external events going into your computer(like inserting USB, receiving data at your networking card, keyboard and mouse events), they all just fuel the nondeterminism of the overall system.

This same can be applied into humans. There is only finite number of states your brain's neurons can be in, the number of states is so huge you cant really say it is determinstic anymore. And you also have external nondeterministic events going on. And this time its not as silly as receiving few bytes of data on your networking card, but rather having data from all 5 of your senses.

Notice: Obviously all that I wrote is my own opinion, and in no way I am trying to necessarily disprove/convert anyone else's opinion. Im just stating mine, and backing it up with what seems logical for me.

 

[Datnes]

If the free will exist? That's a question. I am not 100% sure, but in my opinion free will exist, you just need to learn how to controll it. Somebody has only small controll, somebody has bigger controll. It depends on how much you wanted to use the free will in the past.

 

[Nuclear]

determinated chemical behaviour does not necessarily need to come from the big bang.

I believe in free will, and I dont believe in destiny "set in stone". In my opinion, all people choose their own destiny throughout their lifes, depending on what they do etc etc.

Even tho you could say the brain is basically a chemistry laboratory, people have free choice(you can chose to scratch or not to scratch your butt right now as you read this).

Thats the same like normal computers. They have a finite number of states, but the number of states, and complexness of their architectures makes them effectivelly nondeterministic. If you add the fact that you have nondeterministic external events going into your computer(like inserting USB, receiving data at your networking card, keyboard and mouse events), they all just fuel the nondeterminism of the overall system.

This same can be applied into humans. There is only finite number of states your brain's neurons can be in, the number of states is so huge you cant really say it is determinstic anymore. And you also have external nondeterministic events going on. And this time its not as silly as receiving few bytes of data on your networking card, but rather having data from all 5 of your senses.

Notice: Obviously all that I wrote is my own opinion, and in no way I am trying to necessarily disprove/convert anyone else's opinion. Im just stating mine, and backing it up with what seems logical for me.

Let me rephrase:

So imagine you have an infinitely powerful computer that could measure all the particles and energy in this universe at this instant. Could that computer calculate the reactions and events that would happen in the future based on that snapshot? So when the big bang happened and the universe really got going, wasn't everything predetermined at that instant? All matter and energy behaves according to known or less known laws of physics that are always the same and don't make mistakes.

Also, let's note that even if the universe wasn't deterministic, that wouldn't mean that free will exists. That would just make our wills more random, not freer.

 

[Sclammerz]

I believe cause "We Are The Forsaken! Our will is our own!"

 

[Shadow Fury]

I believe in free will. If there wasn't free will, we wouldn't be taking the 10000 decisions we take daily. Of course our will can be influenced from external factors but it always remains "our own will". Everyone decides what to do in his life, either good or bad, because we are free to do what we want. Probably people do not believe in free will due to the presence of rules and laws which forbid certain actions. In that case, you are no more 100% free to do what you want however that doesn't mean you do not have free will. Any action you make comes from your will, even when it comes to breaking the rules/law.

 

[Chaosy]

Of course we're all influenced by external factors, but what I meant was that do we have any self governance, or is everything predetermined. I.e. are we all just following chemical reactions in our brain that were determined at the moment of big bang etc.

I see, in that case I'd say there are no free choices.

I don't got any kind of source, this is just what I came up with. So, when I think "I can choose between eating the apple and not eating it." but in the end whatever I choose could be destined so to speak. Because you got a certain personality and are influenced by X and Y these are the choices you will make in the end.

This is actually really depressing when I think about it xD

 

[Xonok]

It all really depends on what you define free will as. We are all part of a greater system(the universe). Everything is governed by an unbreakable set of rules and thus, destiny is effectively set in stone.
However, since the rules are way beyond human comprehension, then within our scope of knowledge we do have free will, because we do not see all the interactions that make our lives predetermined.

For all practical purposes, we do have free will, but in the technical absolute sense we do not.

 

[bajaist]

So imagine you have an infinitely powerful computer that could measure all the particles and energy in this universe at this instant. Could that computer calculate the reactions and events that would happen in the future based on that snapshot?

I think that's Newtonian (Mechanical) vs Quantum physics argument. With newtonian model you could predict the future with enough variables and a supercomputer, but with quantum physics it's impossible (because of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).

 

[Nuclear]

I think that's Newtonian (Mechanical) vs Quantum physics argument. With newtonian model you could predict the future with enough variables and a supercomputer, but with quantum physics it's impossible (because of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).

That wasn't the point though. Obviously you can't predict the future, but that doesn't mean that it isn't predetermined.

 

[WhiteFang]

I'm not entirely sure.I have my own will but there are many things that forces me to make choices i do not want to.There are also many other things that forces person to sometimes go in a completely different direction than intended

 

[Dr Super Good]

Humans do not have free will, they just do whatever their brains have become wired to want to do.

 

[StarGreen]

"Stanley approaches two doors, Stanley enters the door on his left."

 

[Gilles]

I've never really studied free will and the alternatives. While it is certainly an interesting field of philosophy, I haven't ever had a desire to study it since I accept free will as self evident, and I see no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Celaquil]

Where's HT when you need him to make a ruckus? >.>

 

[Shadow Fury]

If you do not believe in free will, then you mean that we humans are all lifeless robots which are following a set of instructions given to us. Does this even have sense? You cannot compare humans to robots because we have the ability to think and choose what to do in our lives. We do not follow a specific program which we are forced to obey like computers. Free will should be something that everyone is certain of, not something to doubt.

 

[edo494]

computer you used to post this message has some sort of free will too(Branch prediction for instance)